The access to guns in the US is really scary. Assault rifles and hand guns? Why? I can understand people owning a hunting rifle or a shot gun for hunting... but what purpose does an assault rifle serve other than killing people? Who hunts with a handgun?
How can one argue that fewer guns (and absolutely no automatic or semi-automatic guns) would not make a difference with regards to gun related homicides and these types of events?
I feel awful for those people in the theater... and shame on those (such as the NRA) that have consistently and defiantly and sometimes even tastelessly stood in the way of legislation that just may have kept these victims safe from the weapons that took their lives. If a person wants a really cool gun, they should be able to have it- regardless of any national tragedy that consistently rears its head?
Remember, when your constitution was written, there might have been a legitimate need for weapons. Times have changed.
as far as I know assualt rifles are ilegal but anyway I was just watching cnn .....Jesse jackson is an idiot..a freakin grand stander with the active brain cells of a rock, bottom line I am aginst any gun laws that restrict citizens from owning a gun ...unless they are convicted fellons or mently challenged with violent behavior, when something like this happens the death penality right away, no shrinks no ple-deals no long drug out trials..straight to the death chamber ! period......thats my rant
Godfather.
Well, I'll agree with you regarding the death chamber for this loser.
I'll politely disagree with you regarding restrictions on firearms though.
"My brain's a good brain!"
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g under p
Surfing The far side of THE Sombrero Galaxy Posts: 18,122
Hard to imagine that this guy JH was able to order some of his weapons and ammo over the internet. Do some of you gun lovers and advocates approve of anyone being able to buy these items over the internet?
This to me is more of a major problem in that how do you know as a gun seller to whom are you selling these deadly items to?
Oh let me add the idea of shooting in a dark movie theatre with smoke, maybe tear gas, screaming people running and attempt to shoot the killer.....is a BAD IDEA all together. Instead of becoming a hero you'll probably get shot as the killer instead or end up shooting an innocent person....NOT a very bright idea.
Peace
*We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
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hedonist
standing on the edge of forever Posts: 24,524
Hard to imagine that this guy JH was able to order some of his weapons and ammo over the internet. Do some of you gun lovers and advocates approve of anyone being able to buy these items over the internet?
This to me is more of a major problem in that how do you know as a gun seller to whom are you selling these deadly items to?
Oh let me add the idea of shooting in a dark movie theatre with smoke, maybe tear gas, screaming people running and attempt to shoot the killer.....is a BAD IDEA all together. Instead of becoming a hero you'll probably get shot as the killer instead or end up shooting an innocent person....NOT a very bright idea.
Peace
I'm not a gun lover but support those who use them responsibly, with circumspect.
I saw the police chief say that the guns were purchased legally (I don't think online), but that the ammo was obtained - also legally - via the internet. I believe the same restrictions to purchasing a weapon should apply to ammo too.
As to your last point, agreed. It'd do additional harm - plus this guy was head-to-toe protected. How he got all that gear is another issue that worries me.
Also, like Drifting said at the end of his post, this too has...hit me. All day. The loss of life, the changes both physical and mental to the lives of those who survived, and my wondering what could have led up to this seemingly-intelligent young man planning and carrying out this atrocity.
I'm not a gun lover but support those who use them responsibly, with circumspect.
I saw the police chief say that the guns were purchased legally (I don't think online), but that the ammo was obtained - also legally - via the internet. I believe the same restrictions to purchasing a weapon should apply to ammo too.
As to your last point, agreed. It'd do additional harm - plus this guy was head-to-toe protected. How he got all that gear is another issue that worries me.
Also, like Drifting said at the end of his post, this too has...hit me. All day. The loss of life, the changes both physical and mental to the lives of those who survived, and my wondering what could have led up to this seemingly-intelligent young man planning and carrying out this atrocity.
So are you saying that guns aren't the problem?
How many times will people need to have these discussions before something is done about it? The next gun massacre like this in the U.S isn't just a possibility, it's a certainty. Just a matter of when, and where.
And yet people will continue arguing that guns aren't the problem...until the next massacre...and again the same arguments...and then the next massacre...and on....and on...and on...and more and more lives are destroyed...and on it goes...
Sadly, Nation Knows Exactly How Colorado Shooting's Aftermath Will Play Out
July 20, 2012
WASHINGTON—Americans across the nation confirmed today that, unfortunately, due to their extreme familiarity with the type of tragedy that occurred in a Colorado movie theater last night, they sadly know exactly how the events following the horrific shooting of 12 people will unfold.
While admitting they "absolutely hate" the fact they have this knowledge, the nation's 300 million citizens told reporters they can pinpoint down to the hour when the first candlelight vigil will be held, roughly how many people will attend, how many times the county sheriff will address the media in the coming weeks, and when the town-wide memorial service will be held.
Additionally, sources nationwide took no pleasure in confirming that some sort of video recording, written material, or disturbing photographs made by the shooter will be surfacing in about an hour or two.
"I hate to say it, but we as Americans are basically experts at this kind of thing by now,” said 45-year-old market analyst Jared Gerson, adding that the number of media images of Aurora, CO citizens crying and looking shocked is “pretty much right in line with where it usually is at this point." "The calls not to politicize the tragedy should be starting in an hour, but by 1:30 p.m. tomorrow the issue will have been politicized. Also, I wouldn’t be surprised if the shooter’s high school classmate is interviewed within 45 minutes."
"It's like clockwork," said Gerson, who sighed, shook his head, and walked away.
According to the nation's citizenry, calls for a mature, thoughtful debate about the role of guns in American society started right on time, and should persist throughout the next week or so. However, the populace noted, the debate will soon spiral out of control and ultimately lead to nothing of any substance, a fact Americans everywhere acknowledged they felt "absolutely horrible" to be aware of.
With scalpel-like precision, the American populace then went on to predict, to the minute, how long it will take for the media to swarm Aurora, CO, how long it will take for them to leave, and exactly when questions will be raised as to whether or not violence in movies and video games had something to do with the act.
The nation's citizens also confirmed that, any time now, some religious figure or cable news personality will say something unbelievably insensitive about the tragic shooting.
"Unfortunately, I've been through this a lot, and I pretty much have it down to a science when President Obama will visit Colorado, when he will meet with the families of those who lost loved ones, and when he will give his big speech that people will call 'unifying' and 'very presidential,'" Jacksonville resident Amy Brennen, 32, said, speaking for every other person in the country. "Nothing really surprises me when it comes to this kind of thing anymore. And that makes me feel terrible."
"Oh, and here's another thing I hate I know," Brennen continued, "In exactly two weeks this will all be over and it will be like it never happened."
Sadly, Nation Knows Exactly How Colorado Shooting's Aftermath Will Play Out
July 20, 2012
WASHINGTON—Americans across the nation confirmed today that, unfortunately, due to their extreme familiarity with the type of tragedy that occurred in a Colorado movie theater last night, they sadly know exactly how the events following the horrific shooting of 12 people will unfold.
While admitting they "absolutely hate" the fact they have this knowledge, the nation's 300 million citizens told reporters they can pinpoint down to the hour when the first candlelight vigil will be held, roughly how many people will attend, how many times the county sheriff will address the media in the coming weeks, and when the town-wide memorial service will be held.
Additionally, sources nationwide took no pleasure in confirming that some sort of video recording, written material, or disturbing photographs made by the shooter will be surfacing in about an hour or two.
"I hate to say it, but we as Americans are basically experts at this kind of thing by now,” said 45-year-old market analyst Jared Gerson, adding that the number of media images of Aurora, CO citizens crying and looking shocked is “pretty much right in line with where it usually is at this point." "The calls not to politicize the tragedy should be starting in an hour, but by 1:30 p.m. tomorrow the issue will have been politicized. Also, I wouldn’t be surprised if the shooter’s high school classmate is interviewed within 45 minutes."
"It's like clockwork," said Gerson, who sighed, shook his head, and walked away.
According to the nation's citizenry, calls for a mature, thoughtful debate about the role of guns in American society started right on time, and should persist throughout the next week or so. However, the populace noted, the debate will soon spiral out of control and ultimately lead to nothing of any substance, a fact Americans everywhere acknowledged they felt "absolutely horrible" to be aware of.
With scalpel-like precision, the American populace then went on to predict, to the minute, how long it will take for the media to swarm Aurora, CO, how long it will take for them to leave, and exactly when questions will be raised as to whether or not violence in movies and video games had something to do with the act.
The nation's citizens also confirmed that, any time now, some religious figure or cable news personality will say something unbelievably insensitive about the tragic shooting.
"Unfortunately, I've been through this a lot, and I pretty much have it down to a science when President Obama will visit Colorado, when he will meet with the families of those who lost loved ones, and when he will give his big speech that people will call 'unifying' and 'very presidential,'" Jacksonville resident Amy Brennen, 32, said, speaking for every other person in the country. "Nothing really surprises me when it comes to this kind of thing anymore. And that makes me feel terrible."
"Oh, and here's another thing I hate I know," Brennen continued, "In exactly two weeks this will all be over and it will be like it never happened."
though this is from the onion its hit the nail on the head with a sad truth.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
Full disclosure; have been anti-gun for most my life. have lived in TX for 5.5 years now and have come around to gun ownership to the degree i will buy a handgun sometime in 2012.
i still do not understand semi-automatic/automatic rifles not being regulated to the nth degree. someone posted an expired bill, and not even sure about what sort of approval process it takes to buy these killing machines.
for all those that will spout the 'incremental legislative' argument, fuck off. that is nra 101 bullshit. thanks!
San Diego Sports Arena - Oct 25, 2000 MGM Grand - Jul 6, 2006 Cox Arena - Jul 7, 2006 New Orleans Jazz and Heritage Festival - May 1, 2010 Alpine Valley Music Theater - Sep 3-4 2011 Made In America, Philly - Sep 2, 2012 EV, Houston - Nov 12-13, 2012 Dallas-November 2013 OKC-November 2013 ACL 2-October 2014 Fenway Night 1, August 2016 Wrigley, Night 1 August 2018
Full disclosure; have been anti-gun for most my life. have lived in TX for 5.5 years now and have come around to gun ownership to the degree i will buy a handgun sometime in 2012.
i still do not understand semi-automatic/automatic rifles not being regulated to the nth degree. someone posted an expired bill, and not even sure about what sort of approval process it takes to buy these killing machines.
for all those that will spout the 'incremental legislative' argument, fuck off. that is nra 101 bullshit. thanks!
can i ask why have you decided to buy a gun.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
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hedonist
standing on the edge of forever Posts: 24,524
How many times will people need to have these discussions before something is done about it? The next gun massacre like this in the U.S isn't just a possibility, it's a certainty. Just a matter of when, and where.
And yet people will continue arguing that guns aren't the problem...until the next massacre...and again the same arguments...and then the next massacre...and on....and on...and on...and more and more lives are destroyed...and on it goes...
See the first sentence I posted, please.
It's not those who grasp the gravity of what the weapon can do. I assume, hope, that those who get it are the ones who aren't going the shakiest-gun-in-the-west route, the madman route.
I'm more worried about the clueless, or people with mental issues like young Mr. Holmes, or the whatever, add to the list as you see fit - that's the problem (at least, part of it) - those who have been given so-called legal access to purchase.
Like I said, there should be regulations, checks, in place.
How many times will people need to have these discussions before something is done about it? The next gun massacre like this in the U.S isn't just a possibility, it's a certainty. Just a matter of when, and where.
And yet people will continue arguing that guns aren't the problem...until the next massacre...and again the same arguments...and then the next massacre...and on....and on...and on...and more and more lives are destroyed...and on it goes...
See the first sentence I posted, please.
It's not those who grasp the gravity of what the weapon can do. I assume, hope, that those who get it are the ones who aren't going the shakiest-gun-in-the-west route, the madman route.
I'm more worried about the clueless, or people with mental issues like young Mr. Holmes, or the whatever, add to the list as you see fit - that's the problem (at least, part of it) - those who have been given so-called legal access to purchase.
Like I said, there should be regulations, checks, in place.
Maybe they should only be available for people to use under controlled conditions, like a shooting range. That way those who love shooting them can still shoot them, and at the same time they can be taken off the streets - to the best of the ability of the authorities - (not an easy proposition, but it would be a start).
On monday there was a mass shooting in Toronto at a neighborhood block party. 2 dead, 24 more injured (or something like that). Also a massive armory found in a home in Barrie, including assault weapons, bombs, etc. 7 people shot, 1 killed in a mall in Toronto a few weeks ago... things are fucked up.
I feel so bad for all the people whose lives are affected by this shit. I don't think there is anything to be done about it though... psycho murderers are gonna do their psycho murderer thing one way or another I figure. Nonetheless, we may as well make it as hard as possible for them. I think that anyone buying a gun or ammo should have to undergo psychological testing or something (if people insist that guns should be sold at all). Make people absolutely jump through hoops to buy guns.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
Sympathy for Aurora's victims should not stop us addressing the fact that more than 84 people are shot to death daily in the US
'...Americans are no more prone to mental illness or violence than any other people in the world. What they do have is more guns: roughly, 90 for every 100 people. And regions and states with higher rates of gun ownership have significantly higher rates of homicide than states with lower rates of gun ownership.
The trite insistence that "guns don't kill people, people kill people" simply avoids the reality that people can kill people much more easily with guns than anything else that's accessible. Americans understand this. That's why a plurality supports greater gun control, and a majority thinks the sale of firearms should be more tightly regulated.
The trouble is that people feel powerless to do anything about it. The gun lobby has proved sufficiently potent in rallying opposition to virtually all gun control measures that Democrats have all but given up on arguing for it. In the meantime, the country is literally and metaphorically dying for it.
Gun control is possible. There are both a constituency for it and an argument for it. But it can't happen without a political coalition prepared to fight for it.
If America can elect a black president, it can do this.
Sympathy for Aurora's victims should not stop us addressing the fact that more than 84 people are shot to death daily in the US
'...Americans are no more prone to mental illness or violence than any other people in the world. What they do have is more guns: roughly, 90 for every 100 people. And regions and states with higher rates of gun ownership have significantly higher rates of homicide than states with lower rates of gun ownership.
The trite insistence that "guns don't kill people, people kill people" simply avoids the reality that people can kill people much more easily with guns than anything else that's accessible. Americans understand this. That's why a plurality supports greater gun control, and a majority thinks the sale of firearms should be more tightly regulated.
The trouble is that people feel powerless to do anything about it. The gun lobby has proved sufficiently potent in rallying opposition to virtually all gun control measures that Democrats have all but given up on arguing for it. In the meantime, the country is literally and metaphorically dying for it.
Gun control is possible. There are both a constituency for it and an argument for it. But it can't happen without a political coalition prepared to fight for it.
If America can elect a black president, it can do this.
I dont disagree with you but here in Ireland there arent guns and I made the point in my first point someone went to a gig and stabbed 9 people, sure none of them died but its still crazy.
I'm pretty sure we're on the same wavelength in the long run
Crazy indeed, but imagine how much worse it could've been if he'd had easy access to a gun?
Why the surprise? The lack of any action to address all the past instances... Seems to be just a case of doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
I've said elsewhere - Anders Breivik is a surprise. When that happened, the initial shock was that it was Norway and not some kind of camp in the US. This? I don't think I even shrugged when I heard about it, as soon as I heard it happened in America.
115 bucks for half a haircut by a novice? I want my money back!
Sympathy for Aurora's victims should not stop us addressing the fact that more than 84 people are shot to death daily in the US
'...Americans are no more prone to mental illness or violence than any other people in the world. What they do have is more guns: roughly, 90 for every 100 people. And regions and states with higher rates of gun ownership have significantly higher rates of homicide than states with lower rates of gun ownership.
The trite insistence that "guns don't kill people, people kill people" simply avoids the reality that people can kill people much more easily with guns than anything else that's accessible. Americans understand this. That's why a plurality supports greater gun control, and a majority thinks the sale of firearms should be more tightly regulated.
The trouble is that people feel powerless to do anything about it. The gun lobby has proved sufficiently potent in rallying opposition to virtually all gun control measures that Democrats have all but given up on arguing for it. In the meantime, the country is literally and metaphorically dying for it.
Gun control is possible. There are both a constituency for it and an argument for it. But it can't happen without a political coalition prepared to fight for it.
If America can elect a black president, it can do this.
Once again Gary Younge hits the nail on the head
Yep, spot on.
This show, another show, a show here and a show there.
No one is shocked or surprised no, but thank goodness we all still feel.
This one of the blessings here if any. That our sadness and grief is shared.
That always from the heinous comes the good.
I haven't read through the entire thread but I hope it is not another gun debate.
This goes way past guns to the core of the problem,
how we feel about ourselves, others, life and how much societies as a whole value each.
We see this is a human problem shared worldwide.
Hopefully any laws or change that take place in the future are directed at the person committing the crime, not what they decide to use,
the weapon of choice.
This man had a need for readily available mental health care
as so many do. I'm sure there are people who knew this of him
but did not know how to help,
lacked the resources to help, the courage to help.
We need walk in help, we need cheap, affordable care, we need a way,
a place for a family member to easily seek help for their loved ones
who have mental health issues, without insurance, without financial resources.
Or for one to seek help for themselves before they turn to illegal drug use, violence,
suicide. We need to remove stigmas and shame.
This young man I feel a product of a society that let him down. I feel he was not angry
not like many who mass kill, no...
his game he played, he thought he'd win but decided to quit halfway through.
Thank God for this.
No one is shocked or surprised no, but thank goodness we all still feel.
This one of the blessings here if any. That our sadness and grief is shared.
That always from the heinous comes the good.
I haven't read through the entire thread but I hope it is not another gun debate.
This goes way past guns to the core of the problem,
how we feel about ourselves, others, life and how much societies as a whole value each.
We see this is a human problem shared worldwide.
Hopefully any laws or change that take place in the future are directed at the person committing the crime, not what they decide to use,
the weapon of choice.
This man had a need for readily available mental health care
as so many do. I'm sure there are people who knew this of him
but did not know how to help,
lacked the resources to help, the courage to help.
We need walk in help, we need cheap, affordable care, we need a way,
a place for a family member to easily seek help for their loved ones
who have mental health issues, without insurance, without financial resources.
Or for one to seek help for themselves before they turn to illegal drug use, violence,
suicide. We need to remove stigmas and shame.
This young man I feel a product of a society that let him down. I feel he was not angry
not like many who mass kill, no...
his game he played, he thought he'd win but decided to quit halfway through.
Thank God for this.
I agree......
“We the people are the rightful masters of bothCongress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution.” Abraham Lincoln
...or maybe it's less of a gun problem and more of a problem with our society.
This is what I think.
And like you said, know1, a few posts back. You can't put on new without seeing "best", "fastest", "greatest"....
Have you watched morning news lately? We've become a very apathetic society. Every week on morning news it's..
Divorce
A pretty white girl being kidnapped
A baby being kidnapped
A shooting
A person getting a flesh eating bacteria
This is how people start their "morning routines"
Then Facbook...I think Facebook has a lot of harm on society. Just like guns, Facebook can do a lot of good but not when it's put in the hands of socially and emotionally deprived people starving for attention and love, you're gonna get some sad behaviors.
Both can be instantly gratifying for a sad, lonely person.
Pittsburgh 2003/Pittsburgh 2006/Outside Lands 2009/Bridge School 2010/Pittsburgh 2013
No one is shocked or surprised no, but thank goodness we all still feel.
This one of the blessings here if any. That our sadness and grief is shared.
That always from the heinous comes the good.
I haven't read through the entire thread but I hope it is not another gun debate.
This goes way past guns to the core of the problem,
how we feel about ourselves, others, life and how much societies as a whole value each.
We see this is a human problem shared worldwide.
Hopefully any laws or change that take place in the future are directed at the person committing the crime, not what they decide to use,
the weapon of choice.
This man had a need for readily available mental health care
as so many do. I'm sure there are people who knew this of him
but did not know how to help,
lacked the resources to help, the courage to help.
We need walk in help, we need cheap, affordable care, we need a way,
a place for a family member to easily seek help for their loved ones
who have mental health issues, without insurance, without financial resources.
Or for one to seek help for themselves before they turn to illegal drug use, violence,
suicide. We need to remove stigmas and shame.
This young man I feel a product of a society that let him down. I feel he was not angry
not like many who mass kill, no...
his game he played, he thought he'd win but decided to quit halfway through.
Thank God for this.
I agree......
We can't do both?
What does the body count have to be before we decide to change? Is it 100 or a 1,000? They're only going to get bigger so let me know when it's okay to look at not only the society that's causing these things but also the guns being used.
This show, another show, a show here and a show there.
No one is shocked or surprised no, but thank goodness we all still feel.
This one of the blessings here if any. That our sadness and grief is shared.
That always from the heinous comes the good.
I haven't read through the entire thread but I hope it is not another gun debate.
This goes way past guns to the core of the problem,
how we feel about ourselves, others, life and how much societies as a whole value each.
We see this is a human problem shared worldwide.
Hopefully any laws or change that take place in the future are directed at the person committing the crime, not what they decide to use,
the weapon of choice.
This man had a need for readily available mental health care
as so many do. I'm sure there are people who knew this of him
but did not know how to help,
lacked the resources to help, the courage to help.
We need walk in help, we need cheap, affordable care, we need a way,
a place for a family member to easily seek help for their loved ones
who have mental health issues, without insurance, without financial resources.
Or for one to seek help for themselves before they turn to illegal drug use, violence,
suicide. We need to remove stigmas and shame.
This young man I feel a product of a society that let him down. I feel he was not angry
not like many who mass kill, no...
his game he played, he thought he'd win but decided to quit halfway through.
Thank God for this.
I agree......
I don't.
Are you serious? The guy's a piece of shit- peanut riddled shit to be exact. School wasn't going well for him and he was depressed. So, may as well go kill a theater full of people enjoying Batman. Pandora are you suggesting society is really to blame for this calamity? Most young men, when they face adversity, look in their pants to see if they have a set and begin to deal with their adversity in a slightly less harmful manner.
I don't know his complete history, but I know enough to know he knew he was committing mass murder and that his act was deplorable. As such, he's filth- worthless. Save your empathy for the victims.
Further, this is about gun control. This poor, misunderstood, beaten down, nice and shy young man armed himself with an easily attained assault rifle and commando gear and went to work expressing his sadness by playing real life call of duty. No guns. No deaths by guns. It's pretty much as simple as that.
What does the body count have to be before we decide to change? Is it 100 or a 1,000? They're only going to get bigger so let me know when it's okay to look at not only the society that's causing these things but also the guns being used.
This debate ...
you, me, we all know it well,
it is old and never changes
Are you serious? The guy's a piece of shit- peanut riddled shit to be exact. School wasn't going well for him and he was depressed. So, may as well go kill a theater full of people enjoying Batman. Pandora are you suggesting society is really to blame for this calamity? Most young men, when they face adversity, look in their pants to see if they have a set and begin to deal with their adversity in a slightly less harmful manner.
I don't know his complete history, but I know enough to know he knew he was committing mass murder and that his act was deplorable. As such, he's filth- worthless. Save your empathy for the victims.
Further, this is about gun control. This poor, misunderstood, beaten down, nice and shy young man armed himself with an easily attained assault rifle and commando gear and went to work expressing his sadness by playing real life call of duty. No guns. No deaths by guns. It's pretty much as simple as that.
Perhaps you are unwilling to understand or feel him because you think that is condoning
what he did. I have empathy for all in this situation. I would not if I thought his motives
were pure evil as some who kill are.
He was a little depressed about school? Things weren't going well? :?
Obviously it was much more in his head and people close to him knew this.
People who lived their lives with him.
Too many young people who are struggling through mental illness are undiagnosed,
unable to get help, turn their anger on themselves, internalize, slowly hurt themselves.
Turn to illegal drugs, alcohol, consider suicide. Some build up anger and lash out at others.
But all of them are not thinking logically the way you are looking at them.
Can you try to take a walk through mental illness and understand?
He at the age schizophrenia often manifests. His actions speak volumes
of a break with reality.
This is not at all about guns, it is about a society that is not helping those
who are sick in the head ... period.
This the danger not the guns.
Help needs to be readily available before someone has a break
and decides to play a real life game as this kid did
or lash out at a society because they are angry.
If he was in treatment for his illness, on medicine, we would not be discussing this.
Assault rifles are for what ? killing humans no , they should be outlawed civilans should not be allowed to buy them period .....This creep also bought a ton of ammo thru the good ol web this should also not be allowed ...At the very least assault rifles should be outlawed .....
Are you serious? The guy's a piece of shit- peanut riddled shit to be exact. School wasn't going well for him and he was depressed. So, may as well go kill a theater full of people enjoying Batman. Pandora are you suggesting society is really to blame for this calamity? Most young men, when they face adversity, look in their pants to see if they have a set and begin to deal with their adversity in a slightly less harmful manner.
I don't know his complete history, but I know enough to know he knew he was committing mass murder and that his act was deplorable. As such, he's filth- worthless. Save your empathy for the victims.
Further, this is about gun control. This poor, misunderstood, beaten down, nice and shy young man armed himself with an easily attained assault rifle and commando gear and went to work expressing his sadness by playing real life call of duty. No guns. No deaths by guns. It's pretty much as simple as that.
Perhaps you are unwilling to understand or feel him because you think that is condoning
what he did. I have empathy for all in this situation. I would not if I thought his motives
were pure evil as some who kill are.
He was a little depressed about school? Things weren't going well? :?
Obviously it was much more in his head and people close to him knew this.
People who lived their lives with him.
Too many young people who are struggling through mental illness are undiagnosed,
unable to get help, turn their anger on themselves, internalize, slowly hurt themselves.
Turn to illegal drugs, alcohol, consider suicide. Some build up anger and lash out at others.
But all of them are not thinking logically the way you are looking at them.
Can you try to take a walk through mental illness and understand?
He at the age schizophrenia often manifests. His actions speak volumes
of a break with reality.
This is not at all about guns, it is about a society that is not helping those
who are sick in the head ... period.
This the danger not the guns.
Help needs to be readily available before someone has a break
and decides to play a real life game as this kid did
or lash out at a society because they are angry.
If he was in treatment for his illness, on medicine, we would not be discussing this.
Yeah and how do we get this done this country can barely agree on health coverage for all it's citizens and you wan't people to be available for all the people who have mental issues good luck with that ....
jesus greets me looks just like me ....
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brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,732
It's been suggested that this not become yet another gun thread, yet if there's ever been an incident that indicates guns are a problem in America, this is it. But sadly, it's America and it seems that guns are here to stay. I wish I could say otherwise. But at least, at the very least this incident should be reason to make guns much more difficult to obtain.
Also, there has been talk here about feeling sorry for those involved. We all rightly feel badly for the victims. I also feel sorry for people who have depression, anxiety, who are lonely, grief stricken, in despair or are suicidal. My heart goes out to people in that kind of pain. But I don't feel sorry for sociopaths who go out and kill people and ruin many other lives in the process. If they have to kill, they should take themselves out of the picture, not others.
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
Why the surprise? The lack of any action to address all the past instances... Seems to be just a case of doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
I've said elsewhere - Anders Breivik is a surprise. When that happened, the initial shock was that it was Norway and not some kind of camp in the US. This? I don't think I even shrugged when I heard about it, as soon as I heard it happened in America.
That's kind of fucked up.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
Are you serious? The guy's a piece of shit- peanut riddled shit to be exact. School wasn't going well for him and he was depressed. So, may as well go kill a theater full of people enjoying Batman. Pandora are you suggesting society is really to blame for this calamity? Most young men, when they face adversity, look in their pants to see if they have a set and begin to deal with their adversity in a slightly less harmful manner.
I don't know his complete history, but I know enough to know he knew he was committing mass murder and that his act was deplorable. As such, he's filth- worthless. Save your empathy for the victims.
Further, this is about gun control. This poor, misunderstood, beaten down, nice and shy young man armed himself with an easily attained assault rifle and commando gear and went to work expressing his sadness by playing real life call of duty. No guns. No deaths by guns. It's pretty much as simple as that.
Perhaps you are unwilling to understand or feel him because you think that is condoning
what he did. I have empathy for all in this situation. I would not if I thought his motives
were pure evil as some who kill are.
He was a little depressed about school? Things weren't going well? :?
Obviously it was much more in his head and people close to him knew this.
People who lived their lives with him.
Too many young people who are struggling through mental illness are undiagnosed,
unable to get help, turn their anger on themselves, internalize, slowly hurt themselves.
Turn to illegal drugs, alcohol, consider suicide. Some build up anger and lash out at others.
But all of them are not thinking logically the way you are looking at them.
Can you try to take a walk through mental illness and understand?
He at the age schizophrenia often manifests. His actions speak volumes
of a break with reality.
This is not at all about guns, it is about a society that is not helping those
who are sick in the head ... period.
This the danger not the guns.
Help needs to be readily available before someone has a break
and decides to play a real life game as this kid did
or lash out at a society because they are angry.
If he was in treatment for his illness, on medicine, we would not be discussing this.
Premature statements. You have no idea what his motivations or reasons for doing this are at all.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
Comments
Well, I'll agree with you regarding the death chamber for this loser.
I'll politely disagree with you regarding restrictions on firearms though.
This to me is more of a major problem in that how do you know as a gun seller to whom are you selling these deadly items to?
Oh let me add the idea of shooting in a dark movie theatre with smoke, maybe tear gas, screaming people running and attempt to shoot the killer.....is a BAD IDEA all together. Instead of becoming a hero you'll probably get shot as the killer instead or end up shooting an innocent person....NOT a very bright idea.
Peace
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
I saw the police chief say that the guns were purchased legally (I don't think online), but that the ammo was obtained - also legally - via the internet. I believe the same restrictions to purchasing a weapon should apply to ammo too.
As to your last point, agreed. It'd do additional harm - plus this guy was head-to-toe protected. How he got all that gear is another issue that worries me.
Also, like Drifting said at the end of his post, this too has...hit me. All day. The loss of life, the changes both physical and mental to the lives of those who survived, and my wondering what could have led up to this seemingly-intelligent young man planning and carrying out this atrocity.
So are you saying that guns aren't the problem?
How many times will people need to have these discussions before something is done about it? The next gun massacre like this in the U.S isn't just a possibility, it's a certainty. Just a matter of when, and where.
And yet people will continue arguing that guns aren't the problem...until the next massacre...and again the same arguments...and then the next massacre...and on....and on...and on...and more and more lives are destroyed...and on it goes...
Sadly, Nation Knows Exactly How Colorado Shooting's Aftermath Will Play Out
July 20, 2012
WASHINGTON—Americans across the nation confirmed today that, unfortunately, due to their extreme familiarity with the type of tragedy that occurred in a Colorado movie theater last night, they sadly know exactly how the events following the horrific shooting of 12 people will unfold.
While admitting they "absolutely hate" the fact they have this knowledge, the nation's 300 million citizens told reporters they can pinpoint down to the hour when the first candlelight vigil will be held, roughly how many people will attend, how many times the county sheriff will address the media in the coming weeks, and when the town-wide memorial service will be held.
Additionally, sources nationwide took no pleasure in confirming that some sort of video recording, written material, or disturbing photographs made by the shooter will be surfacing in about an hour or two.
"I hate to say it, but we as Americans are basically experts at this kind of thing by now,” said 45-year-old market analyst Jared Gerson, adding that the number of media images of Aurora, CO citizens crying and looking shocked is “pretty much right in line with where it usually is at this point." "The calls not to politicize the tragedy should be starting in an hour, but by 1:30 p.m. tomorrow the issue will have been politicized. Also, I wouldn’t be surprised if the shooter’s high school classmate is interviewed within 45 minutes."
"It's like clockwork," said Gerson, who sighed, shook his head, and walked away.
According to the nation's citizenry, calls for a mature, thoughtful debate about the role of guns in American society started right on time, and should persist throughout the next week or so. However, the populace noted, the debate will soon spiral out of control and ultimately lead to nothing of any substance, a fact Americans everywhere acknowledged they felt "absolutely horrible" to be aware of.
With scalpel-like precision, the American populace then went on to predict, to the minute, how long it will take for the media to swarm Aurora, CO, how long it will take for them to leave, and exactly when questions will be raised as to whether or not violence in movies and video games had something to do with the act.
The nation's citizens also confirmed that, any time now, some religious figure or cable news personality will say something unbelievably insensitive about the tragic shooting.
"Unfortunately, I've been through this a lot, and I pretty much have it down to a science when President Obama will visit Colorado, when he will meet with the families of those who lost loved ones, and when he will give his big speech that people will call 'unifying' and 'very presidential,'" Jacksonville resident Amy Brennen, 32, said, speaking for every other person in the country. "Nothing really surprises me when it comes to this kind of thing anymore. And that makes me feel terrible."
"Oh, and here's another thing I hate I know," Brennen continued, "In exactly two weeks this will all be over and it will be like it never happened."
though this is from the onion its hit the nail on the head with a sad truth.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
i still do not understand semi-automatic/automatic rifles not being regulated to the nth degree. someone posted an expired bill, and not even sure about what sort of approval process it takes to buy these killing machines.
for all those that will spout the 'incremental legislative' argument, fuck off. that is nra 101 bullshit. thanks!
MGM Grand - Jul 6, 2006
Cox Arena - Jul 7, 2006
New Orleans Jazz and Heritage Festival - May 1, 2010
Alpine Valley Music Theater - Sep 3-4 2011
Made In America, Philly - Sep 2, 2012
EV, Houston - Nov 12-13, 2012
Dallas-November 2013
OKC-November 2013
ACL 2-October 2014
Fenway Night 1, August 2016
Wrigley, Night 1 August 2018
can i ask why have you decided to buy a gun.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
It's not those who grasp the gravity of what the weapon can do. I assume, hope, that those who get it are the ones who aren't going the shakiest-gun-in-the-west route, the madman route.
I'm more worried about the clueless, or people with mental issues like young Mr. Holmes, or the whatever, add to the list as you see fit - that's the problem (at least, part of it) - those who have been given so-called legal access to purchase.
Like I said, there should be regulations, checks, in place.
Maybe they should only be available for people to use under controlled conditions, like a shooting range. That way those who love shooting them can still shoot them, and at the same time they can be taken off the streets - to the best of the ability of the authorities - (not an easy proposition, but it would be a start).
I feel so bad for all the people whose lives are affected by this shit. I don't think there is anything to be done about it though... psycho murderers are gonna do their psycho murderer thing one way or another I figure. Nonetheless, we may as well make it as hard as possible for them. I think that anyone buying a gun or ammo should have to undergo psychological testing or something (if people insist that guns should be sold at all). Make people absolutely jump through hoops to buy guns.
Sympathy for Aurora's victims should not stop us addressing the fact that more than 84 people are shot to death daily in the US
'...Americans are no more prone to mental illness or violence than any other people in the world. What they do have is more guns: roughly, 90 for every 100 people. And regions and states with higher rates of gun ownership have significantly higher rates of homicide than states with lower rates of gun ownership.
The trite insistence that "guns don't kill people, people kill people" simply avoids the reality that people can kill people much more easily with guns than anything else that's accessible. Americans understand this. That's why a plurality supports greater gun control, and a majority thinks the sale of firearms should be more tightly regulated.
The trouble is that people feel powerless to do anything about it. The gun lobby has proved sufficiently potent in rallying opposition to virtually all gun control measures that Democrats have all but given up on arguing for it. In the meantime, the country is literally and metaphorically dying for it.
Gun control is possible. There are both a constituency for it and an argument for it. But it can't happen without a political coalition prepared to fight for it.
If America can elect a black president, it can do this.
Once again Gary Younge hits the nail on the head
Crazy indeed, but imagine how much worse it could've been if he'd had easy access to a gun?
What??
Those places either were, or still are, war zones. Iraq. Afghanistan. Pakistan. Somalia. The I.R.A bombings in the U.K.
What relation does any of this have with gun violence in the U.S?
I've said elsewhere - Anders Breivik is a surprise. When that happened, the initial shock was that it was Norway and not some kind of camp in the US. This? I don't think I even shrugged when I heard about it, as soon as I heard it happened in America.
Yep, spot on.
This one of the blessings here if any. That our sadness and grief is shared.
That always from the heinous comes the good.
I haven't read through the entire thread but I hope it is not another gun debate.
This goes way past guns to the core of the problem,
how we feel about ourselves, others, life and how much societies as a whole value each.
We see this is a human problem shared worldwide.
Hopefully any laws or change that take place in the future are directed at
the person committing the crime, not what they decide to use,
the weapon of choice.
This man had a need for readily available mental health care
as so many do. I'm sure there are people who knew this of him
but did not know how to help,
lacked the resources to help, the courage to help.
We need walk in help, we need cheap, affordable care, we need a way,
a place for a family member to easily seek help for their loved ones
who have mental health issues, without insurance, without financial resources.
Or for one to seek help for themselves before they turn to illegal drug use, violence,
suicide. We need to remove stigmas and shame.
This young man I feel a product of a society that let him down. I feel he was not angry
not like many who mass kill, no...
his game he played, he thought he'd win but decided to quit halfway through.
Thank God for this.
I agree......
And like you said, know1, a few posts back. You can't put on new without seeing "best", "fastest", "greatest"....
Have you watched morning news lately? We've become a very apathetic society. Every week on morning news it's..
Divorce
A pretty white girl being kidnapped
A baby being kidnapped
A shooting
A person getting a flesh eating bacteria
This is how people start their "morning routines"
Then Facbook...I think Facebook has a lot of harm on society. Just like guns, Facebook can do a lot of good but not when it's put in the hands of socially and emotionally deprived people starving for attention and love, you're gonna get some sad behaviors.
Both can be instantly gratifying for a sad, lonely person.
We can't do both?
What does the body count have to be before we decide to change? Is it 100 or a 1,000? They're only going to get bigger so let me know when it's okay to look at not only the society that's causing these things but also the guns being used.
I don't.
Are you serious? The guy's a piece of shit- peanut riddled shit to be exact. School wasn't going well for him and he was depressed. So, may as well go kill a theater full of people enjoying Batman. Pandora are you suggesting society is really to blame for this calamity? Most young men, when they face adversity, look in their pants to see if they have a set and begin to deal with their adversity in a slightly less harmful manner.
I don't know his complete history, but I know enough to know he knew he was committing mass murder and that his act was deplorable. As such, he's filth- worthless. Save your empathy for the victims.
Further, this is about gun control. This poor, misunderstood, beaten down, nice and shy young man armed himself with an easily attained assault rifle and commando gear and went to work expressing his sadness by playing real life call of duty. No guns. No deaths by guns. It's pretty much as simple as that.
you, me, we all know it well,
it is old and never changes
that is my answer ...
never...
and you know why
what he did. I have empathy for all in this situation. I would not if I thought his motives
were pure evil as some who kill are.
He was a little depressed about school? Things weren't going well? :?
Obviously it was much more in his head and people close to him knew this.
People who lived their lives with him.
Too many young people who are struggling through mental illness are undiagnosed,
unable to get help, turn their anger on themselves, internalize, slowly hurt themselves.
Turn to illegal drugs, alcohol, consider suicide. Some build up anger and lash out at others.
But all of them are not thinking logically the way you are looking at them.
Can you try to take a walk through mental illness and understand?
He at the age schizophrenia often manifests. His actions speak volumes
of a break with reality.
This is not at all about guns, it is about a society that is not helping those
who are sick in the head ... period.
This the danger not the guns.
Help needs to be readily available before someone has a break
and decides to play a real life game as this kid did
or lash out at a society because they are angry.
If he was in treatment for his illness, on medicine, we would not be discussing this.
Yeah and how do we get this done this country can barely agree on health coverage for all it's citizens and you wan't people to be available for all the people who have mental issues good luck with that ....
Also, there has been talk here about feeling sorry for those involved. We all rightly feel badly for the victims. I also feel sorry for people who have depression, anxiety, who are lonely, grief stricken, in despair or are suicidal. My heart goes out to people in that kind of pain. But I don't feel sorry for sociopaths who go out and kill people and ruin many other lives in the process. If they have to kill, they should take themselves out of the picture, not others.