Christian Republicans

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  • gimmesometruth27
    gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 24,722
    aerial wrote:
    All these years they have been taxing us, why has the government no solved the hunger issue yet? This is only one reason I do not want to give the Government any more of my money. They are unqualified for the job.
    nothing can solve the "hunger issue". the "hunger issue" is a direct result of our capitalism based system. there are gonna be haves and have nots. it is a moral imperative for the haves to help the have nots, as jesus told us. but sadly that is being threatened by the christian republicans who think it is more righteous to make people fend for themselves rather than helping them with the collective tax revenues....seems as if they think it is sinful to be poor and asking for help.

    it is gonna be funny when a camel passes through the eye of a needle while people like paul ryan, romney, santorum, and bachmann et al in this government are waiting to get into heaven...
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • gimmesometruth27
    gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 24,722
    aerial wrote:
    This is directed to Gimme. He is saying Republican Christians are cutting funding to feed the poor. I say they (Washington) are unqualified for the job. I don't know where you get I don't care. In fact I don't know what you are talking about...... I give directly to the poor. I see them every day at my job. They come in for the free coffee. I actually talk to these people and get to know them. They have other problems beside food. Example one guy collects cans and his tire blew out on his bike keeping him from being able to collect cans in mass. That’s how he feeds himself. I asked him how much a tire cost then gave him enough to cover it. I like to know were my money is going.
    the ARE proposing cutting aid to the poor. if christian republicans were not running on that platform then i would not be posting about it on here.

    i get that you don't care because if you do not support helping the poor through the current channels then you do not support helping the poor. the charities can only go so far and only help so many people. the government is much more efficient once people are on the welfare rolls. when has anybody ever heard of the welfare checks not showing up or bouncing? when have people heard about the wic cards not being restocked on time? because it does not happen when the system is allowed to do it's job. you start cutting funding, that is when it all goes to hell.

    i am glad that you give to the poor. but a government of a country with a billion people in it has the means and the resources at it's disposal to help and infinitely greater number of people than you or i buying one guy a tire. ya know what i am trying to say?
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • aerial
    aerial Posts: 2,319
    gimmesometruth27 wrote:
    aerial wrote:
    All these years they have been taxing us, why has the government no solved the hunger issue yet? This is only one reason I do not want to give the Government any more of my money. They are unqualified for the job.
    nothing can solve the "hunger issue". the "hunger issue" is a direct result of our capitalism based system. there are gonna be haves and have nots. it is a moral imperative for the haves to help the have nots, as jesus told us. but sadly that is being threatened by the christian republicans who think it is more righteous to make people fend for themselves rather than helping them with the collective tax revenues....seems as if they think it is sinful to be poor and asking for help.

    it is gonna be funny when a camel passes through the eye of a needle while people like paul ryan, romney, santorum, and bachmann et al in this government are waiting to get into heaven...

    I hear we have a huge deficit. You can't just keep taking from the workers that do help there selves....the majority of the population is middle class and living pay check to pay check.....take from them and you create more poor people...there has to be another answer....like Help your neighbor. No one has the right to take another s property, be they rich or poor......The USA is not a socialist country....as you know...nor do we want to be.....those people that do should just move some place that they would be happier
    “We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution.” Abraham Lincoln
  • Cosmo
    Cosmo Posts: 12,225
    aerial wrote:
    Hey I was just letting you know I support them because of the comment you made. But you know a discussion about the Tea Party is a whole other thread.
    ...
    Okay. Fair enough.
    So... what are the YOU doing to 'Teach a Man to Fish'?
    ...
    My guess. Nothing. You are probably doing absolutely nothing to solve the problem you are talking about. Well, other than buying an inner tube for a homeless man's bicycle... homeless problem... solved.
    ...
    You are probably too busy to train someone to work, right? There SHOULD be something bigger that can actually solve a large, complicated, multi-faceted problem... better than some bullshit bumper sticker quip about teaching someone to fish, right? It is a bigger problem than you going out and teaching one person to fish, right? Something bigger... like education... or job trainning. That requires teachers and facilities and supplies (such as fishing poles and nylon wire and hooks and bait and a boat...). Doesn't all that shit cost money?
    ...
    But... you don't want to pay for it... so, who is going to do all of this... FOR FREE?
    ...
    Answer: NOBODY.
    Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
    Hail, Hail!!!
  • aerial
    aerial Posts: 2,319
    Cosmo wrote:
    aerial wrote:
    Hey I was just letting you know I support them because of the comment you made. But you know a discussion about the Tea Party is a whole other thread.
    ...
    Okay. Fair enough.
    So... what are the YOU doing to 'Teach a Man to Fish'?
    ...
    My guess. Nothing. You are probably doing absolutely nothing to solve the problem you are talking about. Well, other than buying an inner tube for a homeless man's bicycle... homeless problem... solved.
    ...
    You are probably too busy to train someone to work, right? There SHOULD be something bigger that can actually solve a large, complicated, multi-faceted problem... better than some bullshit bumper sticker quip about teaching someone to fish, right? It is a bigger problem than you going out and teaching one person to fish, right? Something bigger... like education... or job trainning. That requires teachers and facilities and supplies (such as fishing poles and nylon wire and hooks and bait and a boat...). Doesn't all that shit cost money?
    ...
    But... you don't want to pay for it... so, who is going to do all of this... FOR FREE?
    ...
    Answer: NOBODY.

    I was using that as an example. I am not so self righteous to sit here and list all that I have done. I do know there are other people that also help people in need. As Gimme says you can only go so far to help and that goes for the government also...because WE DO NOT have the money.....maybe we could filter out the able body people that are sucking up the resources and give to the ones that can not work. Maybe make the food stamp recipients be a little more thrifty as I see them purchasing lobsters at $25 a pop (just one example) with those food stamps. I work and I can"t afford lobster. So damn if I want to give my money to someone who is taking advantage of the freebies they get. We all are not equal on this earth nor do I believe it was meant to be that way. Such is life.
    “We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution.” Abraham Lincoln
  • Hugh Freaking Dillon
    Hugh Freaking Dillon Posts: 14,010
    the welfare system in Canada is a fucking joke. I see unemployed sluts with 6 kids playing with a fucking iPhone and feeding their obese 5 year old (who is in a STROLLER) cheetos and orange crush for fucking breakfast.

    I propose a new welfare system: NO MONEY. Just vouchers. Vouchers that can only be used for certain things. Food. Clothing. No alcohol. No cigarettes. No cell phones. And of course, with no money, means no street drugs.

    Add options for job training and/or working and/or education if they are willing to do it.

    Humiliating? NOPE. They should be grateful the government/taxpayer is willing to give them something for doing NOTHING. I see people standing on the side of the road begging for money from stopped motorists with better clothes than ME. FUCK THAT.

    Make it so it's not so goddamn cushy to stay on welfare. The ones who don't abuse it won't care. And the ones who do just might buck up and go out and get a goddamn job.
    Gimli 1993
    Fargo 2003
    Winnipeg 2005
    Winnipeg 2011
    St. Paul 2014
  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    aerial wrote:
    I hear we have a huge deficit. You can't just keep taking from the workers that do help there selves....the majority of the population is middle class and living pay check to pay check.....take from them and you create more poor people...there has to be another answer....like Help your neighbor. No one has the right to take another s property, be they rich or poor......The USA is not a socialist country....as you know...nor do we want to be.....those people that do should just move some place that they would be happier

    Who said anything about taking from the workers or the middle class? Obama's budget stimulus plans were aimed at helping the working and middle classes by not renewing Bush tax breaks for the ultra-rich.


    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/21/us/po ... emeal.html
    For the second time in 10 days, the Senate on Thursday rejected Democratic efforts to take up a jobs bill championed by President Obama.

    The vote to advance the bill was 50 to 50. Democrats needed 60 votes to overcome a Republican filibuster.

    This time, the bill was narrowed to provide $35 billion to state and local governments to prevent layoffs of teachers, police officers and firefighters. To offset the cost, the bill would impose a surtax of 0.5 percent, starting in 2013, on income in excess of $1 million.


    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/11/0 ... 74539.html

    'Republicans in the Senate Thursday dealt President Barack Obama the third in a string of defeats on his stimulus-style jobs agenda, blocking a $60 billion measure for building and repairing infrastructure like roads and rail lines.

    Supporters of the failed measure said it would have created tens of thousands of construction jobs and lifted the still-struggling economy. But Republicans unanimously opposed it for its tax surcharge on the wealthy..'
  • brianlux
    brianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 43,733
    peacefrompaul wrote:
    brianlux wrote:
    Godfather. wrote:
    amd when there is nobody left to blame peple blame Jesus or God..go figure. :lol:

    Godfather.

    What do people blame Jesus for, Godfather? They might not believe in Jesus or they might not care about Jesus one way or the other, but what have they blamed him for? I've never heard this before.

    Take a look at the life of Maynard James Keenan and his mother. Then listen to the song Judith.
    Rock group Tool, wine making... still not sure what this has to do with Godfather's statement- "when there is nobody left to blame, people blame Jesus." Sorry, just not sure what you're referring to.

    Back to the original OP quote. Government may be inefficient but I know people who would be in a world of hurt if it weren't for programs that help them be able to eat. Them and their young kids. Even if arguments could be made that government isn't efficient and poor people shouldn't have kids, the fact remains that there will always be government and there will always be the poor and if you're going to profess to be Christian and political then it makes more sense to make the programs more efficient and support planned parenthood- not cut them out and let the poor go hungry.
    "It's a sad and beautiful world"
    -Roberto Benigni

  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    'Christian Republican' = A contradiction in terms if ever I've seen one.
  • petejm043
    petejm043 Posts: 156
    aerial wrote:
    Cosmo wrote:
    aerial wrote:
    Hey I was just letting you know I support them because of the comment you made. But you know a discussion about the Tea Party is a whole other thread.
    ...
    Okay. Fair enough.
    So... what are the YOU doing to 'Teach a Man to Fish'?
    ...
    My guess. Nothing. You are probably doing absolutely nothing to solve the problem you are talking about. Well, other than buying an inner tube for a homeless man's bicycle... homeless problem... solved.
    ...
    You are probably too busy to train someone to work, right? There SHOULD be something bigger that can actually solve a large, complicated, multi-faceted problem... better than some bullshit bumper sticker quip about teaching someone to fish, right? It is a bigger problem than you going out and teaching one person to fish, right? Something bigger... like education... or job trainning. That requires teachers and facilities and supplies (such as fishing poles and nylon wire and hooks and bait and a boat...). Doesn't all that shit cost money?
    ...
    But... you don't want to pay for it... so, who is going to do all of this... FOR FREE?
    ...
    Answer: NOBODY.

    I was using that as an example. I am not so self righteous to sit here and list all that I have done. I do know there are other people that also help people in need. As Gimme says you can only go so far to help and that goes for the government also...because WE DO NOT have the money.....maybe we could filter out the able body people that are sucking up the resources and give to the ones that can not work. Maybe make the food stamp recipients be a little more thrifty as I see them purchasing lobsters at $25 a pop (just one example) with those food stamps. I work and I can"t afford lobster. So damn if I want to give my money to someone who is taking advantage of the freebies they get. We all are not equal on this earth nor do I believe it was meant to be that way. Such is life.


    Government is not the solution to problems. Even though the intentions of government help is noble in the end it leads to a life of dependency on government programs. I believe that government should be there for the elderly or the disabled. Government should provide a hand along with charities to help individuals and families that have fallen on hard times.

    Unfortunately government programs also lead to fraud. For example, food stamp fraud costs the tax payers $750 million a year. In 2010 tax payers lost $60 billion to health care fraud.
    As for the homeless…yes there are many who have mental issues or have been caught up with drugs and alcohol. This past May a homeless man in Miami, Ronald Poppo was attacked and his face was bitten by what many of you may recall as the Miami Zombie. Anyhow the point being is the before this brutal attack, Mr. Poppo had been approached several times throughout the many years and was offered help to get off the streets and he refused.

    A few years ago the Miami-Dade Homeless Trust did a study and it found that in panhandlers in South Florida received $40 million dollars. Also check out this video from Richmond, VA on panhandlers.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=seUmRXn_1qY
  • Go Beavers
    Go Beavers Posts: 9,647
    petejm043 wrote:


    Government is not the solution to problems. Even though the intentions of government help is noble in the end it leads to a life of dependency on government programs.

    How did you come to the conclusion that government help leads to a life of dependency?
  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    petejm043 wrote:
    A few years ago the Miami-Dade Homeless Trust did a study and it found that in panhandlers in South Florida received $40 million dollars. Also check out this video from Richmond, VA on panhandlers.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=seUmRXn_1qY

    So you're saying that homeless people are actually very wealthy swindlers?
  • brianlux
    brianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 43,733
    There are always going to be some people who take advantage of the system. There are probably people who panhandle for fun who don't need the money. But really, think about it- some guy or lady is gonna stand on a stinking smog chocked corner asking for change because it's fun? They'd have to be fucking nuts. I have no problem giving a little money to people who are hungry and I have not problem with giving a little money to people who are fucking nuts. Either way- I'm good with it.

    Oh- and homeless or crazy people's companion animals too. That's why it's a good idea to keep an extra can of cat or dog food in the car or your pack.
    "It's a sad and beautiful world"
    -Roberto Benigni

  • Godfather.
    Godfather. Posts: 12,504
    Hugh Freaking Dillon wrote:
    the welfare system in Canada is a fucking joke. I see unemployed sluts with 6 kids playing with a fucking iPhone and feeding their obese 5 year old (who is in a STROLLER) cheetos and orange crush for fucking breakfast.

    I propose a new welfare system: NO MONEY. Just vouchers. Vouchers that can only be used for certain things. Food. Clothing. No alcohol. No cigarettes. No cell phones. And of course, with no money, means no street drugs.

    Add options for job training and/or working and/or education if they are willing to do it.

    Humiliating? NOPE. They should be grateful the government/taxpayer is willing to give them something for doing NOTHING. I see people standing on the side of the road begging for money from stopped motorists with better clothes than ME. FUCK THAT.

    Make it so it's not so goddamn cushy to stay on welfare. The ones who don't abuse it won't care. And the ones who do just might buck up and go out and get a goddamn job.

    WAHOOO DUDE ! tell us how you really feel :lol: I agree with you but most times I can't tell who is the abuser and who really needs the help...but I do know the abusers are out theie selling there vouchers for dope booze and cig's.

    Godfather.
  • petejm043
    petejm043 Posts: 156
    Byrnzie wrote:
    petejm043 wrote:
    A few years ago the Miami-Dade Homeless Trust did a study and it found that in panhandlers in South Florida received $40 million dollars. Also check out this video from Richmond, VA on panhandlers.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=seUmRXn_1qY

    So you're saying that homeless people are actually very wealthy swindlers?

    I am not saying that they are wealthy. The study which was done by the trust to help the homeless concluded that panhandling brought in $40 million dollars. And if you saw the interview I posted, the panhandler in Richmond, VA stated he brings in $700 a week and he doesnt want to get a real job.
  • cincybearcat
    cincybearcat Posts: 16,951
    Go Beavers wrote:
    petejm043 wrote:


    Government is not the solution to problems. Even though the intentions of government help is noble in the end it leads to a life of dependency on government programs.

    How did you come to the conclusion that government help leads to a life of dependency?


    Forty-two percent returned to welfare within two years of leaving it. Something like 20% are on welfare fro greater than 5 years to begin with.

    I think it's a flawed program. The proof is in the pudding. I think the number of years on welfare has to be low (< 1 year) and the % that return to welfare needs to be lower...about half of what it is today... for welfare to be considered a success. But whether you like it or not will depend on your own success criteria.
    hippiemom = goodness
  • mikepegg44
    mikepegg44 Posts: 3,353
    Go Beavers wrote:
    mikepegg44 wrote:



    Yes, I am saying that food stamps and wic are not efficient or timely in the least. Tell me the application process for it is timely and efficient, tell me that making 14400 is somehow more needy than someone who makes 14401...This isn't an opinion on the efficiency of gov't from the outside looking in...you need to remember that Gimmie. I work in public health...I see the inefficiency all the time, in every way, lots of my opinions about gov't have changed because of the work I have done over the last 6-7 years. I used to believe in gov't, believe they were there to help...but this isn't a discussion about the efficiency of gov't. As you know I can go on and on about that :lol: we won't agree. The government has some inherent advantages over charitable groups, but that doesn't mean they are better with the money and donations they get.
    I don't hate giving and I am not selfish in the least. I don't think the programs should exist like they do. Seems like one cannot even talk about exploring another way of doing things, lest I be labeled insensitive to the needs of the poor...

    I suppose it can depend on how you're measuring efficiency. If it's strictly measured by time elapsed from applying for food stamps and then actually getting them, then a food bank or church would win out because my understanding is that you can just show up and get food at the latter. Depending on what state your in, many people can get food stamps in under 4 weeks from application date. My guess is that you may be in one of the state's that does a poor job in this area. As far as administrative costs go, food stamps does pretty well in that area. Church's and charities vary widely in this area, some better than the gov, some worse. With charities, the person is also limited to what food is on hand (not efficient), not allowing for individual dietary needs, and locked into their hours of service (not efficient). There may also be contingencies attached to receiving the food. It's also more difficult for someone in a rural area to access charities.

    There's no reason the two can't coexist, though, as both have pros and cons. I'd be careful with drawing conclusions about such a large system that varies across states with your own personal experience.


    on the contrary, I live in a state that hasn't voted for a republican candidate for president since 1976 and only gone republican 5 times since the 30's...very democrat...called the DFL here. We have such good programs compared to neighboring states that people move here to get on them. I agree that they can co-exist. I don't support the complete removal of social safety nets, but I do think they cast the requirements arbitrarily and aren't efficient when it comes to spending the dollars given to them...Time lapse is also an issue. MA is an obnoxious process that involves about 5 too many people when being processed. Overall, not useful and needs to be changed.
    that’s right! Can’t we all just get together and focus on our real enemies: monogamous gays and stem cells… - Ned Flanders
    It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
    - Joe Rogan
  • mikepegg44
    mikepegg44 Posts: 3,353
    Byrnzie wrote:
    mikepegg44 wrote:
    those same people give to charities and work at their local church.

    Who are these 'people' that you're referring to here? Are you suggesting that every politician gives to charity and works at a church? And let's just say for arguments sake that they do. How does this excuse them being blatant hypocrites?


    Gov't and religion should be separate. So it doesn't bother me when a politician makes a decision not based in religion, even if they don't do it all the time. I thought we wanted religion out of Gov't? so when they make a decision that goes against their religion aren't you happy about that?

    Look, I am not here to defend people who are christian simply for getting votes, and I don't believe the OP made any reference to politicians, just republicans... I just get tired of giant negative stereotypes about christians to be honest. I am not one, couldn't be more up front about that...I just get tired of it...especially when all the criticism that is lobbed at them comes from people who will defend most muslims from those that believe they are all terrorists...this kind of argument is pointless and just adds to the feeling that you are on a political team. That is all. I think it is a stupid thing to worry about.
    that’s right! Can’t we all just get together and focus on our real enemies: monogamous gays and stem cells… - Ned Flanders
    It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
    - Joe Rogan
  • mikepegg44
    mikepegg44 Posts: 3,353
    gimmesometruth27 wrote:
    i get that you don't care because if you do not support helping the poor through the current channels then you do not support helping the poor.

    Gimme a break


    that is an asinine thing to say.
    that’s right! Can’t we all just get together and focus on our real enemies: monogamous gays and stem cells… - Ned Flanders
    It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
    - Joe Rogan
  • mikepegg44
    mikepegg44 Posts: 3,353
    Byrnzie wrote:
    'Christian Republican' = A contradiction in terms if ever I've seen one.


    makes sense to think that , since it seems like you believe all christians are like the westboro baptist church.
    that’s right! Can’t we all just get together and focus on our real enemies: monogamous gays and stem cells… - Ned Flanders
    It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
    - Joe Rogan

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