Christian Republicans

davidtrios

CH156378

:P

gimmesometruth27

:corn:

gimmesometruth27

hedonist

I'm neither Republican nor Democrat...and I do respect the reasonable debates / arguments that take place here on a regular basis...but it seems to me as if posts like this (which from what I've seen, typically take jabs at the conservative side) do nothing to foster constructive discussion.

There's ridiculousness all over the place, but I don't see near as much anti-liberalism as I do the opposite (and I get it, many of the folks here tend to be more liberal than not).

This isn't a personal dig at you, davidtrios...just trying to understand the point.

gimmesometruth27

i think in essence it is a completely fair question to ask those who claim to worship jesus and have jesus act through them how they can do things counter to what jesus would have done. it strikes at the very core duality of elected officials who claim to be"christians" in our government. they are christish on sunday in front of the meet the press cameras, but not in their votes.

normally i would dismiss this and say that it is just election year hyperbole, but unfortunately this say-you-are-christian-yet-act-the-complete-opposite-way has been going on for at least 3 years now...

marcos

But Christian Democrats care about the poor, especially the rich ones?

hedonist

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

i think in essence it is a completely fair question to ask those who claim to worship jesus and have jesus act through them how they can do things counter to what jesus would have done. it strikes at the very core duality of elected officials who claim to be"christians" in our government. they are christish on sunday in front of the meet the press cameras, but not in their votes.

normally i would dismiss this and say that it is just election year hyperbole, but unfortunately this say-you-are-christian-yet-act-the-complete-opposite-way has been going on for at least 3 years now...

I hear you...I just think there are hypocrites all over, in every group - as well as those who are sincere. I've come to loathe the paint-all/most-with-one-brush mentality.

(and I do add well more than a grain of salt when listening to ANY politician, regardless of partyline! Such is the nature of that beast...those beasts?)

(and now I think I'm showing my very own hypocritcal side )

bgivens33

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

i think in essence it is a completely fair question to ask those who claim to worship jesus and have jesus act through them how they can do things counter to what jesus would have done. it strikes at the very core duality of elected officials who claim to be"christians" in our government. they are christish on sunday in front of the meet the press cameras, but not in their votes.

normally i would dismiss this and say that it is just election year hyperbole, but unfortunately this say-you-are-christian-yet-act-the-complete-opposite-way has been going on for at least 3 years now...

I think the counterpoint to that would be Christians would rather have control over how the less fortunate are taken care of. Taking care of people would best be handled at the local level and where more control over where funds are appropriated can be practiced.

Here is an article that speaks to that:

http://www.economist.com/node/988818

I am not wanting to get into a Mormon vs. Christianity debate, I'm just pointing out that not wanting the government to handle welfare doesn't equate to not wanting welfare to exist.

Jeanwah

I have to tell you guys about going to mass a couple months ago. I don't go to church at all and am not Catholic, but when I visit my family, I'll go to mass just to keep the peace and ya know, the songs aren't too bad.

So the sermon starts and instead of it being about a lesson from the gospal reading, it was about the gov't shouldn't be intruding on the Church's rights. And that under freedom of religion, the Catholic Church should absolutely practice by their religious laws and that means to not offer birth control to employees of any Catholic organization. And it went on and on...

I started looking around and NO ONE was batting an eye. If I had a clear getaway, I would have straight up walked out right then and there. I talked to a sister who lives in the D.C. area who still goes to church and she said that they talked about the same exact thing during her mass.

All I could think about was that Jesus would be taking care of his fellow sisters and brothers and not restricting or imposing his political beliefs on them. That was the absolute end of my ever going to another mass again. EVER.

aerial

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

i think in essence it is a completely fair question to ask those who claim to worship jesus and have jesus act through them how they can do things counter to what jesus would have done. it strikes at the very core duality of elected officials who claim to be"christians" in our government. they are christish on sunday in front of the meet the press cameras, but not in their votes.

normally i would dismiss this and say that it is just election year hyperbole, but unfortunately this say-you-are-christian-yet-act-the-complete-opposite-way has been going on for at least 3 years now...

Do you want a politician putting his Christian values before his political values or do you want them to put their political values before there Christian Values? You sort of flip flop on this. Like when it comes to abortion you don’t want them to vote using there Christian values do you?
Some People expect Christians to be perfect but they are not.
God gave man free will but is always watching over us, hears our prayers and helps to guide us. He gave us free will but also gave us the "rules" to live by, the Ten Commandments. He gave us Jesus who is our salvation and showed us the right way to live and how to treat others. The choices are ours to make, right or wrong, but we will be held accountable for them.

aerial

Jeanwah wrote:

I have to tell you guys about going to mass a couple months ago. I don't go to church at all and am not Catholic, but when I visit my family, I'll go to mass just to keep the peace and ya know, the songs aren't too bad.

So the sermon starts and instead of it being about a lesson from the gospal reading, it was about the gov't shouldn't be intruding on the Church's rights. And that under freedom of religion, the Catholic Church should absolutely practice by their religious laws and that means to not offer birth control to employees of any Catholic organization. And it went on and on...

I started looking around and NO ONE was batting an eye. If I had a clear getaway, I would have straight up walked out right then and there. I talked to a sister who lives in the D.C. area who still goes to church and she said that they talked about the same exact thing during her mass.

All I could think about was that Jesus would be taking care of his fellow sisters and brothers and not restricting or imposing his political beliefs on them. That was the absolute end of my ever going to another mass again. EVER.

Don’t people have the right to stand up for what they believe in? Why is it so bad or hard to understand that the Catholics are not happy about being forced to provide something that they do not believe in?
People try to understand …People that believe in God are still just people!

gimmesometruth27

hedonist wrote:

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

i think in essence it is a completely fair question to ask those who claim to worship jesus and have jesus act through them how they can do things counter to what jesus would have done. it strikes at the very core duality of elected officials who claim to be"christians" in our government. they are christish on sunday in front of the meet the press cameras, but not in their votes.

normally i would dismiss this and say that it is just election year hyperbole, but unfortunately this say-you-are-christian-yet-act-the-complete-opposite-way has been going on for at least 3 years now...

I hear you...I just think there are hypocrites all over, in every group - as well as those who are sincere. I've come to loathe the paint-all/most-with-one-brush mentality.

(and I do add well more than a grain of salt when listening to ANY politician, regardless of partyline! Such is the nature of that beast...those beasts?)

(and now I think I'm showing my very own hypocritcal side )

i understand what you are saying, but typically liberals do not run on jesus and they do not vote to disallow things like gay marriage, defund planned parenthood, or end medicare and medicaid, which takes care of the poor, infirmed, and elderly...

gimmesometruth27

i want a politician to put his money where his mouth is. i do not want them saying how christian they are and then voting against helping people. i do not want to be governed under biblical laws, and i want religion out of all public institutions. if jesus tells you to act as he would act and you vote to end medicare and food stamps, and medicaid, then you are not voting as a christian, you are voting as part of a party line....as a general rule for me, the more someone talks about jesus, the higher standard i hold them to. they sit in judgement of people like me, which they are not supposed to do anyway, so i watch how they vote like a hawk. the more someone talks about jesus, the less likely they get my vote. see santorum...

it is by issue aerial. when it comes to abortion, they should not use christian beliefs to force those beliefs on other people and they should not use those beliefs to force a woman to carry a baby to term when her own life is in danger. they can practice those beliefs in their own house, but they can not govern like that in the real world. and if you are going to be against using taxes to fund abortion or food stamps, then you better damn well be pro choice, because most aborted fetuses are from people below the poverty line or have no way to provide for that kid. you can not care about the embryo, yet when that kid is out of the womb deny it health care or food stamps if it is a poor child.

if a candidate runs as a christian i expect them to vote as close to christ's teachings as humanly possible with regard of taking care of the poor. i expect them to be compassionate and be their brothers' keeper. unfortunately these days conservative christians care less and less about being those two things...

and yes, precisely, jesus told you how to take care of the less fortunate, so why are these current asshats against doing just that?

aerial wrote:

Do you want a politician putting his Christian values before his political values or do you want them to put their political values before there Christian Values? You sort of flip flop on this. Like when it comes to abortion you don’t want them to vote using there Christian values do you?
Some People expect Christians to be perfect but they are not.
God gave man free will but is always watching over us, hears our prayers and helps to guide us. He gave us free will but also gave us the "rules" to live by, the Ten Commandments. He gave us Jesus who is our salvation and showed us the right way to live and how to treat others. The choices are ours to make, right or wrong, but we will be held accountable for them.

Jeanwah

aerial wrote:

Jeanwah wrote:

I have to tell you guys about going to mass a couple months ago. I don't go to church at all and am not Catholic, but when I visit my family, I'll go to mass just to keep the peace and ya know, the songs aren't too bad.

So the sermon starts and instead of it being about a lesson from the gospal reading, it was about the gov't shouldn't be intruding on the Church's rights. And that under freedom of religion, the Catholic Church should absolutely practice by their religious laws and that means to not offer birth control to employees of any Catholic organization. And it went on and on...

I started looking around and NO ONE was batting an eye. If I had a clear getaway, I would have straight up walked out right then and there. I talked to a sister who lives in the D.C. area who still goes to church and she said that they talked about the same exact thing during her mass.

All I could think about was that Jesus would be taking care of his fellow sisters and brothers and not restricting or imposing his political beliefs on them. That was the absolute end of my ever going to another mass again. EVER.

Don’t people have the right to stand up for what they believe in? Why is it so bad or hard to understand that the Catholics are not happy about being forced to provide something that they do not believe in?
People try to understand …People that believe in God are still just people!

Like Gimme already said, if you practice what you preach - which for Catholicism is kindness, doing unto others as you would have them do to you, the practices of Jesus Christ and the 10 Commandments... taking away from others is a direct contradiction. Politicizing the Catholic religion, as well as Separation of Church and State, are going directly against the basic principles of the religion and of the founding principles of this country.

Hugh Freaking Dillon

I'm probably the last person who you'd expect to take this stance, but..........people who follow Christ aren't just supposed to be "nice" and "help people" all the time. They are supposed, as far as my knowledge base goes, perpetuate the belief that the Christian vision is bigger than any one person. As in, abortion is a crime against god even if it puts the mother in danger. God chooses who lives or dies, not man. If God chooses the woman to die and the child to live, they are supposed to accept that.

a Christian is not a Christian if they only "practice" at home and don't spread the message of God to everyone that they can. So being a politician who is a Christian might see it his duty to do just that in politics-he might even believe it's God's plan for him to be there be a Christian politician.

I personally disagree, since I am agnostic. I don't believe anyone is put anywhere for any type of destiny. But just because Christians may not always appear to have their fellow man's best interests at heart, it's probably because god comes first.

And christians, as arial said, are also human.

FiveB247x

When any person designates themselves as something, why shouldn't we hold them to whatever standard there-after? If you call yourself a voter, there's no affiliation. If you call yourself a Christian, you appoint designation and expectation to yourself that you would carry on the beliefs and philosophies of that designation. So perhaps, don't characterize yourself and then there won't be any expectation or let down when you don't follow through? Just a thought.

Go Beavers

FiveB247x wrote:

When any person designates themselves as something, why shouldn't we hold them to whatever standard there-after? If you call yourself a voter, there's no affiliation. If you call yourself a Christian, you appoint designation and expectation to yourself that you would carry on the beliefs and philosophies of that designation. So perhaps, don't characterize yourself and then there won't be any expectation or let down when you don't follow through? Just a thought.

But what does "carry on the beliefs and philosophies of that designation" mean exactly? Each individual has their own definition of what a Christian is and what a Christian should do. We might find a consensus textbook like definition of what a Christian is, but those don't really translate to what behaviors a Christian might show.

The unfortunate thing is that most people associate conservative with being Christian, and vice-versa. It's a bit of a high-jack of Jesus' message by the religious right.

mikepegg44

those same people give to charities and work at their local church. They feel that the government fforce is not the most effective way. Why is that impossible to understand?


But I guess it is just easier to hate them

gimmesometruth27

mikepegg44 wrote:

those same people give to charities and work at their local church. They feel that the government fforce is not the most effective way. Why is that impossible to understand?


But I guess it is just easier to hate them

who is directing hatred at them?

if you claim to be something, act like it and wear it. don't say you are for something, ie helping poor, while voting to hurt those people. christ would be offended by these people.

mikepegg44

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

mikepegg44 wrote:

those same people give to charities and work at their local church. They feel that the government fforce is not the most effective way. Why is that impossible to understand?


But I guess it is just easier to hate them

who is directing hatred at them?

if you claim to be something, act like it and wear it. don't say you are for something, ie helping poor, while voting to hurt those people. christ would be offended by these people.

They are wearing it... they don't believe gov't is the best way to help them. Again, why is that hard to understand?


I have been here a while, as have you...if you don't think people hate republican christians as a stereotype...I don't know what to tell you


edit to add links
http://www.osjspm.org/ catholic charities

https://www.fmsc.org/donate

just two, there are plenty more