You're right it DOESN'T Have to come from the government.
It comes from the government because it ISN'T coming from anyone else.
Absolutely wrong. There are a lot of people doing a lot of charity work and donating lots of money.
I'd like to think that several more would be doing it if they had more of their own money back to help others instead of pay for government waste.
...
Take away the charity's (Government) tax exemptions... take away the (Government's) tax write-offs for donations... then, what?
Will those donations continue to flow in... or do they dry up? I don't know... do you?
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
Absolutely wrong. There are a lot of people doing a lot of charity work and donating lots of money.
I'd like to think that several more would be doing it if they had more of their own money back to help others instead of pay for government waste.
...
Yes. I know, there are people donating tons of money to charitiies.
Do charitable contributoions to new wings at a museum count? What about charities to animal rights groups... or specific cancer research... or environmentalt issues? Do those count?
Point being... people donate to things they want to... like art museums or no kill shelters or cancer research or river bank clean up... none of which help the poorest people living in ghettos and slums.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
..
Take away the charity's (Government) tax exemptions... take away the (Government's) tax write-offs for donations... then, what?
Will those donations continue to flow in... or do they dry up? I don't know... do you?
also factor in that most charities have admin costs that make their donation to admin ratio to not be that good ... except food banks i suppose ...
this libertarian notion that in lieu of paying taxes ... people will help each other is kinda absurd ... in a me-first culture ... who the fuck is thinking about the next guy?
Government is not the solution to problems. Even though the intentions of government help is noble in the end it leads to a life of dependency on government programs. I believe that government should be there for the elderly or the disabled. Government should provide a hand along with charities to help individuals and families that have fallen on hard times.
Unfortunately government programs also lead to fraud. For example, food stamp fraud costs the tax payers $750 million a year. In 2010 tax payers lost $60 billion to health care fraud.
As for the homeless…yes there are many who have mental issues or have been caught up with drugs and alcohol. This past May a homeless man in Miami, Ronald Poppo was attacked and his face was bitten by what many of you may recall as the Miami Zombie. Anyhow the point being is the before this brutal attack, Mr. Poppo had been approached several times throughout the many years and was offered help to get off the streets and he refused.
A few years ago the Miami-Dade Homeless Trust did a study and it found that in panhandlers in South Florida received $40 million dollars. Also check out this video from Richmond, VA on panhandlers. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=seUmRXn_1qY
...
Who is responsible here... the government... or the people CHEATING the system that is there to help the people in need?
And Medicare fraud... do you know who steals from Medicare? not poor people... DOCTORS, HOSPITALS, DRUG COMPANIES, LAWYERS, OLD PEOPLE of all income levels, WHEELCHAIR SALESMEN, etc... These people aren't in need... they are driven by greed.
I am sorry Cosmo but you are misinformed. Due to the nature of my job I have an up close view to how fraud is committed especially healthcare fraud. I have seen how individuals have gone from being poor to becoming millionaires due to defrauding the government. There have been cases where a doctor is part of the fraud but in most cases the doctor’s id has been compromised and used by fraudsters to steal from the government.
also factor in that most charities have admin costs that make their donation to admin ratio to not be that good
I'd say the government has every charity beat in this!!!!
Agreed. At least when I give to charity I know (for the most part) where my money is going.
Those fuckers in the government could be using my money for anything.
It never hurts to gather information first before you buy into the repeated rhetoric about government inefficiency. Admin costs for different public assistance programs is actually really good:
It never hurts to gather information first before you buy into the repeated rhetoric about government inefficiency. Admin costs for different public assistance programs is actually really good:
My understanding is that non-profits shoot for a 10-15% admin cost.
It's also your government that lets people know which charities are a scam.
Uh-huh. All I'm saying is I'm not 100% sure where all my tax money is going. While it could be going to things that are useful, I also know it is going to things that are destructive. (Foreign aid to Israel, bombs to drop on civilians, drones) It IS good to do research, thank you.
Post edited by peacefrompaul on
0
brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 42,408
I am sorry Cosmo but you are misinformed. Due to the nature of my job I have an up close view to how fraud is committed especially healthcare fraud. I have seen how individuals have gone from being poor to becoming millionaires due to defrauding the government. There have been cases where a doctor is part of the fraud but in most cases the doctor’s id has been compromised and used by fraudsters to steal from the government.
...
So. What did you do about this? I am sure you reported it, testified in court and the CRIMINAL went to prison and the millions of stolen dollars went back into the coffiers... right?
...
and my point of PEOPLE CHEATING the system is the problem. If PEOPLE weren't lying, CHEATING, STEALING pieces of SHIT... then, there wouldn't be a problem.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
I am sorry Cosmo but you are misinformed. Due to the nature of my job I have an up close view to how fraud is committed especially healthcare fraud. I have seen how individuals have gone from being poor to becoming millionaires due to defrauding the government. There have been cases where a doctor is part of the fraud but in most cases the doctor’s id has been compromised and used by fraudsters to steal from the government.
...
So. What did you do about this? I am sure you reported it, testified in court and the CRIMINAL went to prison and the millions of stolen dollars went back into the coffiers... right?
...
and my point of PEOPLE CHEATING the system is the problem. If PEOPLE weren't lying, CHEATING, STEALING pieces of SHIT... then, there wouldn't be a problem.
You are correct if people wouldn't steal it would not be a problem. But people do still and they steal big espcially from the government. $60 billion is stolen on a yearly basis from Medicare. The money that the government does recover from fraudsters are pennies compared to what the taxpayers lose.
Gov't and religion should be separate. So it doesn't bother me when a politician makes a decision not based in religion, even if they don't do it all the time. I thought we wanted religion out of Gov't? so when they make a decision that goes against their religion aren't you happy about that?
Except you're completely missing the point - or just deliberately shifting the discussion in order to avoid addressing the OP.
We do want religion out of government. But that's not the point. The point is there are Republican politicians who keep preaching that they're Christians, whilst at the same time doing the opposite of what any true Christian would do - taking from the poor and pandering to the rich, whilst lining their own greedy pockets.
I just get tired of it...especially when all the criticism that is lobbed at them comes from people who will defend most muslims from those that believe they are all terrorists...
You are correct if people wouldn't steal it would not be a problem. But people do still and they steal big espcially from the government. $60 billion is stolen on a yearly basis from Medicare. The money that the government does recover from fraudsters are pennies compared to what the taxpayers lose.
...
So... what is your solution? Get rid of medicare? Turn it over to insurance Companies Wall Streeters and Bankers... because they are so trustworthy and honest? Just let people die? What?
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
You are correct if people wouldn't steal it would not be a problem. But people do still and they steal big espcially from the government. $60 billion is stolen on a yearly basis from Medicare. The money that the government does recover from fraudsters are pennies compared to what the taxpayers lose.
...
So... what is your solution? Get rid of medicare? Turn it over to insurance Companies Wall Streeters and Bankers... because they are so trustworthy and honest? Just let people die? What?
Unfortunately, there is no sure way to stamp out fraud but we can slow the system. When it comes to Medicare all claims must be paid out within 30 days. That is how the law was written. That should be taken out and give CMS at least 180 days to verify all claims.
Now when a fraudster is caught we need to do a better job when it comes to identifying assets. We need new laws that can give the government better methods to go after assets.
Government should protect those who are unable to take care of themselves such as the elderly or disabled but government also has the duty to protect the taxpayer as well.
Unfortunately, there is no sure way to stamp out fraud but we can slow the system. When it comes to Medicare all claims must be paid out within 30 days. That is how the law was written. That should be taken out and give CMS at least 180 days to verify all claims.
Now when a fraudster is caught we need to do a better job when it comes to identifying assets. We need new laws that can give the government better methods to go after assets.
Government should protect those who are unable to take care of themselves such as the elderly or disabled but government also has the duty to protect the taxpayer as well.
...
That's a viable solution... having the resources required to adequately assess the system and identify and eliminate those who abuse the system.
The only problem... it make government bigger by increasing the number of Federal employees. Current day Republican and Tea Party types would never have that. If it were outsourced to private sector, the tax payers would STILL be on the hook since those companies would be billing the government for their work. Who's to say THEY won't be bilking the taxpayers?
It is too bad that people cannot be trusted to do the right thing for everybody... instead of always thinking about what's in it for themselves.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
Unfortunately, there is no sure way to stamp out fraud but we can slow the system. When it comes to Medicare all claims must be paid out within 30 days. That is how the law was written. That should be taken out and give CMS at least 180 days to verify all claims.
Now when a fraudster is caught we need to do a better job when it comes to identifying assets. We need new laws that can give the government better methods to go after assets.
Government should protect those who are unable to take care of themselves such as the elderly or disabled but government also has the duty to protect the taxpayer as well.
...
That's a viable solution... having the resources required to adequately assess the system and identify and eliminate those who abuse the system.
The only problem... it make government bigger by increasing the number of Federal employees. Current day Republican and Tea Party types would never have that. If it were outsourced to private sector, the tax payers would STILL be on the hook since those companies would be billing the government for their work. Who's to say THEY won't be bilking the taxpayers?
It is too bad that people cannot be trusted to do the right thing for everybody... instead of always thinking about what's in it for themselves.
There are solutions to every problem. It is a sad state we live in when are elected leaders cant sit down a solve issues such as the one we discussed. Imagine if we were to cut the fraud and abuse in half how many more people that really need help would receive it.
and I don't believe the OP made any reference to politicians, just republicans..
Generally those responsible for cutting 'programs that feed the hungry and heal the sick' are politicians.
not necessarily, if their voting block didn't want them to do it they wouldn't...So really, the voting base is responsible for the actions they take. It certainly didn't say politician in the OP unless I am wrong. It could have meant that, but then it should have been specific. all it said was republicans...lots of those in the country who are vocal and want to get programs changed
Except you're completely missing the point - or just deliberately shifting the discussion in order to avoid addressing the OP.
We do want religion out of government. But that's not the point. The point is there are Republican politicians who keep preaching that they're Christians, whilst at the same time doing the opposite of what any true Christian would do - taking from the poor and pandering to the rich, whilst lining their own greedy pockets.
No I am not missing the point. either you want them to decide based on their religious principles or you don't. I have addressed the OP, you have limited it to only politicians, thus changing it. I included all republicans who also vote...That is not shifting the discussion at all in fact. I understand what people are trying to say, I just don't like the GIANT generalization that comes from simply saying republicans in the OP.
So when they make decisions that you believe are based on some other principle outside of their christian faith you can `not agree` all you want, but don't call them hypocrites for voting outside their christian faith simply because you disagree with the outcome. Cannot have it both ways...either you want them to make decisions based on religious principles or you don't...Apparently some is the same as all...Calling them hypocrites for doing something that seemingly goes against their religion's principles and in the same breath telling them you want religion out of politics is kind of contradictory isn't it?
In fact, I think it would be a good tactic by the left to point out that it goes against christian principles and while they don't agree they are glad that Republicans are beginning to take religion out of politics and that they hope it continues. That would cause quite the dust up if some major politicians on the left said something like that...
hopefully this isn't a real question to me...if it is, when have I ever given the impression that I feel that way? you have read enough of what I have written I assume...what about that gives you the impression I feel that way?
that’s right! Can’t we all just get together and focus on our real enemies: monogamous gays and stem cells… - Ned Flanders
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
It certainly didn't say politician in the OP unless I am wrong. It could have meant that, but then it should have been specific. all it said was republicans...lots of those in the country who are vocal and want to get programs changed
Well, I interpreted it as referring to politicians - those in a position to cut programs that feed the hungry and heal the sick.
Then again, those that vote for these hypocrites are not entirely without blame.
either you want them to decide based on their religious principles or you don't....
So when they make decisions that you believe are based on some other principle outside of their christian faith you can `not agree` all you want, but don't call them hypocrites for voting outside their christian faith simply because you disagree with the outcome. Cannot have it both ways...either you want them to make decisions based on religious principles or you don't...Apparently some is the same as all...Calling them hypocrites for doing something that seemingly goes against their religion's principles and in the same breath telling them you want religion out of politics is kind of contradictory isn't it?
In fact, I think it would be a good tactic by the left to point out that it goes against christian principles and while they don't agree they are glad that Republicans are beginning to take religion out of politics and that they hope it continues. That would cause quite the dust up if some major politicians on the left said something like that...
Except they're not taking religion out of politics. They preach it at every opportunity. And their actions and decisions are the opposite of what any real Christian would do. That's called hypocrisy.
It certainly didn't say politician in the OP unless I am wrong. It could have meant that, but then it should have been specific. all it said was republicans...lots of those in the country who are vocal and want to get programs changed
Well, I interpreted it as referring to politicians - those in a position to cut programs that feed the hungry and heal the sick.
Then again, those that vote for these hypocrites are not entirely without blame.
either you want them to decide based on their religious principles or you don't....
So when they make decisions that you believe are based on some other principle outside of their christian faith you can `not agree` all you want, but don't call them hypocrites for voting outside their christian faith simply because you disagree with the outcome. Cannot have it both ways...either you want them to make decisions based on religious principles or you don't...Apparently some is the same as all...Calling them hypocrites for doing something that seemingly goes against their religion's principles and in the same breath telling them you want religion out of politics is kind of contradictory isn't it?
In fact, I think it would be a good tactic by the left to point out that it goes against christian principles and while they don't agree they are glad that Republicans are beginning to take religion out of politics and that they hope it continues. That would cause quite the dust up if some major politicians on the left said something like that...
Except they're not taking religion out of politics. They preach it at every opportunity. And their actions and decisions are the opposite of what any real Christian would do. That's called hypocrisy.
Can you answer this? Do you want them to be hypocrites or not?
You seem to be very intelligent but at the same time not so smart.
“We the people are the rightful masters of bothCongress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution.” Abraham Lincoln
You are correct if people wouldn't steal it would not be a problem. But people do still and they steal big espcially from the government. $60 billion is stolen on a yearly basis from Medicare. The money that the government does recover from fraudsters are pennies compared to what the taxpayers lose.
...
So... what is your solution? Get rid of medicare? Turn it over to insurance Companies Wall Streeters and Bankers... because they are so trustworthy and honest? Just let people die? What?
If Wall Street was actually held accountable for what they have done, this wouldn't be as much of an issue. Until then, they will continue to fuck people over and carry on with their lines of Cocaine.
I think I posted this in the wrong forum originally, but Jesus was very anti-government in his time. He railed against the rulers of the day almost continually.
The only people we should try to get even with...
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
I think I posted this in the wrong forum originally, but Jesus was very anti-government in his time. He railed against the rulers of the day almost continually.
well who wouldnt be against a foreign power being in control of their country???
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
I think I posted this in the wrong forum originally, but Jesus was very anti-government in his time. He railed against the rulers of the day almost continually.
well who wouldnt be against a foreign power being in control of their country???
I think much of his disdain was focused on the Jewish leaders and not the Romans.
The only people we should try to get even with...
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
I think I posted this in the wrong forum originally, but Jesus was very anti-government in his time. He railed against the rulers of the day almost continually.
well who wouldnt be against a foreign power being in control of their country???
I think much of his disdain was focused on the Jewish leaders and not the Romans.
the jewish leaders doing the bidding of the romans, you mean??
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
Comments
Take away the charity's (Government) tax exemptions... take away the (Government's) tax write-offs for donations... then, what?
Will those donations continue to flow in... or do they dry up? I don't know... do you?
Hail, Hail!!!
Yes. I know, there are people donating tons of money to charitiies.
Do charitable contributoions to new wings at a museum count? What about charities to animal rights groups... or specific cancer research... or environmentalt issues? Do those count?
Point being... people donate to things they want to... like art museums or no kill shelters or cancer research or river bank clean up... none of which help the poorest people living in ghettos and slums.
Hail, Hail!!!
also factor in that most charities have admin costs that make their donation to admin ratio to not be that good ... except food banks i suppose ...
this libertarian notion that in lieu of paying taxes ... people will help each other is kinda absurd ... in a me-first culture ... who the fuck is thinking about the next guy?
I'd say the government has every charity beat in this!!!!
Agreed. At least when I give to charity I know (for the most part) where my money is going.
Those fuckers in the government could be using my money for anything.
I am sorry Cosmo but you are misinformed. Due to the nature of my job I have an up close view to how fraud is committed especially healthcare fraud. I have seen how individuals have gone from being poor to becoming millionaires due to defrauding the government. There have been cases where a doctor is part of the fraud but in most cases the doctor’s id has been compromised and used by fraudsters to steal from the government.
It never hurts to gather information first before you buy into the repeated rhetoric about government inefficiency. Admin costs for different public assistance programs is actually really good:
http://www.cbpp.org/cms/index.cfm?fa=view&id=3655&emailView=1
My understanding is that non-profits shoot for a 10-15% admin cost.
It's also your government that lets people know which charities are a scam.
Uh-huh. All I'm saying is I'm not 100% sure where all my tax money is going. While it could be going to things that are useful, I also know it is going to things that are destructive. (Foreign aid to Israel, bombs to drop on civilians, drones) It IS good to do research, thank you.
Unless I've missed something, this seems to be a good site to track most charity orgs. spending, profits, etc.:
http://www.charitynavigator.org/
-Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
(interesting little tidbit, the president of that organization is the brother of my bro-in-law
So. What did you do about this? I am sure you reported it, testified in court and the CRIMINAL went to prison and the millions of stolen dollars went back into the coffiers... right?
...
and my point of PEOPLE CHEATING the system is the problem. If PEOPLE weren't lying, CHEATING, STEALING pieces of SHIT... then, there wouldn't be a problem.
Hail, Hail!!!
I used that for a project in 7th grade. Good call, Brian. :thumbup:
You are correct if people wouldn't steal it would not be a problem. But people do still and they steal big espcially from the government. $60 billion is stolen on a yearly basis from Medicare. The money that the government does recover from fraudsters are pennies compared to what the taxpayers lose.
Except you're completely missing the point - or just deliberately shifting the discussion in order to avoid addressing the OP.
We do want religion out of government. But that's not the point. The point is there are Republican politicians who keep preaching that they're Christians, whilst at the same time doing the opposite of what any true Christian would do - taking from the poor and pandering to the rich, whilst lining their own greedy pockets.
Because most Muslims are terrorists, right?
So... what is your solution? Get rid of medicare? Turn it over to insurance Companies Wall Streeters and Bankers... because they are so trustworthy and honest? Just let people die? What?
Hail, Hail!!!
Generally those responsible for cutting 'programs that feed the hungry and heal the sick' are politicians.
-Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
Unfortunately, there is no sure way to stamp out fraud but we can slow the system. When it comes to Medicare all claims must be paid out within 30 days. That is how the law was written. That should be taken out and give CMS at least 180 days to verify all claims.
Now when a fraudster is caught we need to do a better job when it comes to identifying assets. We need new laws that can give the government better methods to go after assets.
Government should protect those who are unable to take care of themselves such as the elderly or disabled but government also has the duty to protect the taxpayer as well.
That's a viable solution... having the resources required to adequately assess the system and identify and eliminate those who abuse the system.
The only problem... it make government bigger by increasing the number of Federal employees. Current day Republican and Tea Party types would never have that. If it were outsourced to private sector, the tax payers would STILL be on the hook since those companies would be billing the government for their work. Who's to say THEY won't be bilking the taxpayers?
It is too bad that people cannot be trusted to do the right thing for everybody... instead of always thinking about what's in it for themselves.
Hail, Hail!!!
There are solutions to every problem. It is a sad state we live in when are elected leaders cant sit down a solve issues such as the one we discussed. Imagine if we were to cut the fraud and abuse in half how many more people that really need help would receive it.
not necessarily, if their voting block didn't want them to do it they wouldn't...So really, the voting base is responsible for the actions they take. It certainly didn't say politician in the OP unless I am wrong. It could have meant that, but then it should have been specific. all it said was republicans...lots of those in the country who are vocal and want to get programs changed
No I am not missing the point. either you want them to decide based on their religious principles or you don't. I have addressed the OP, you have limited it to only politicians, thus changing it. I included all republicans who also vote...That is not shifting the discussion at all in fact. I understand what people are trying to say, I just don't like the GIANT generalization that comes from simply saying republicans in the OP.
So when they make decisions that you believe are based on some other principle outside of their christian faith you can `not agree` all you want, but don't call them hypocrites for voting outside their christian faith simply because you disagree with the outcome. Cannot have it both ways...either you want them to make decisions based on religious principles or you don't...Apparently some is the same as all...Calling them hypocrites for doing something that seemingly goes against their religion's principles and in the same breath telling them you want religion out of politics is kind of contradictory isn't it?
In fact, I think it would be a good tactic by the left to point out that it goes against christian principles and while they don't agree they are glad that Republicans are beginning to take religion out of politics and that they hope it continues. That would cause quite the dust up if some major politicians on the left said something like that...
hopefully this isn't a real question to me...if it is, when have I ever given the impression that I feel that way? you have read enough of what I have written I assume...what about that gives you the impression I feel that way?
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
Well, I interpreted it as referring to politicians - those in a position to cut programs that feed the hungry and heal the sick.
Then again, those that vote for these hypocrites are not entirely without blame.
Except they're not taking religion out of politics. They preach it at every opportunity. And their actions and decisions are the opposite of what any real Christian would do. That's called hypocrisy.
Can you answer this? Do you want them to be hypocrites or not?
You seem to be very intelligent but at the same time not so smart.
If Wall Street was actually held accountable for what they have done, this wouldn't be as much of an issue. Until then, they will continue to fuck people over and carry on with their lines of Cocaine.
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
well who wouldnt be against a foreign power being in control of their country???
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
I think much of his disdain was focused on the Jewish leaders and not the Romans.
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
the jewish leaders doing the bidding of the romans, you mean??
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say