Christian Republicans

mikepegg44

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

those charities are wonderful, but they are not equipped to feed the needy on a massive scale. the government is the only organization that is big enough to do that and do it timely and efficiently. your views on government will never allow you to concede that point. i get that.

yes, they do a wonderfully efficient job

ComeToTX

Hugh Freaking Dillon wrote:

if you want to thank jesus and praise him for the good that you do, shouldn't that allow others to blame him for the bad that you do too?

I don't, but my point is you can't have it both ways.

this always seems funny to me. people on tv after a natural disaster asking god to help them. shouldn't they be blaming god for the massive tornado/hurricane/tsunami/earthquake/fire that just destroyed their lives?

Same goes for victims of violent crime. i'm asked to pray for the victims. where was god while someones kid was being raped or murdered? i've never received a straight answer from a christian on this.

if god is truly all good, all knowing and all powerful how do they rectify these things?

cincybearcat

Hugh Freaking Dillon wrote:

Godfather. wrote:

why do we blame Jesus for the choices of men ? Godfather.

the same reason we credit jesus for the accomplishments of man.

Nice. Perfect response.

mikepegg44

polaris_x wrote:

mikepegg44 wrote:

never said they had a monopoly on it. I get it, you aren't willing to see the votes on cutting social programs as a gov't philosophy...it has to be because they hate and want to punish the poor. I simply pointed out that is a ridiculously narrow view.

it IS a gov't philosophy ... to benefit the wealthy ... i'm just not sure where you get the idea that christian republicans don't want big gov't ... we're talking about the hypocrisy of christianity and their front that they want to help people ... when the reality is they want people to conform people ...

I just provided links to two christian organizations that help people. You want to believe none of them do, I cannot change that...All Canadians hate Christians :P .

I have pointed out many times convenient conservatism is ridiculous. I just don't understand why we get to negatively stereotype Christians. The same people that jump on those for stereotyping muslims as terrorists are the first to jump on the christian stereotype you are describing.

I am not one, don't have a horse in that race, nor do I deny that some want to use the gov't as a morals police...The original post was about cutting social programs was it not? that is what I answered...What is wrong with thinking that a different way to help people might be better? does that somehow make someone less christian? Do social programs make people love each other more? do they teach you to do unto others? no they don't...they give money to people who may or may not deserve it based on criteria down to a specific dollar income...great. But I don't think welfare should exist like it does so obviously I hate poor people...

Godfather.

cincybearcat wrote:

Hugh Freaking Dillon wrote:

Godfather. wrote:

why do we blame Jesus for the choices of men ? Godfather.

the same reason we credit jesus for the accomplishments of man.

Nice. Perfect response.

no...it was the ez response and not really an answer the question.

Godfather.

cincybearcat

Godfather. wrote:

cincybearcat wrote:

Hugh Freaking Dillon wrote:

the same reason we credit jesus for the accomplishments of man.

Nice. Perfect response.

no...it was the ez response and not really an answer the question.

Godfather.

OK, how about this... why do I have to talk about your jesus?

The reason people blame jesus for the choices of men, is because those same "men" invoke jesus as the reason they do everything and how they try to live their lives. If you are going to say you are living by the word of god and telling others to, then expect some criticism when your actions/words are hurtful to others and serve no purpose.

Or how about this...keep your jesus to yourself and I'll keep my opinion about jesus to myself?

Hugh Freaking Dillon

Godfather. wrote:

no...it was the ez response and not really an answer the question.

Godfather.

no it wasn't. you always say that when you're in a corner.

mikepegg44

cincybearcat wrote:

OK, how about this... why do I have to talk about your jesus?

The reason people blame jesus for the choices of men, is because those same "men" invoke jesus as the reason they do everything and how they try to live their lives. If you are going to say you are living by the word of god and telling others to, then expect some criticism when your actions/words are hurtful to others and serve no purpose.

Or how about this...keep your jesus to yourself and I'll keep my opinion about jesus to myself?

good answer

Godfather.

mikepegg44 wrote:

cincybearcat wrote:

OK, how about this... why do I have to talk about your jesus?

The reason people blame jesus for the choices of men, is because those same "men" invoke jesus as the reason they do everything and how they try to live their lives. If you are going to say you are living by the word of god and telling others to, then expect some criticism when your actions/words are hurtful to others and serve no purpose.

Or how about this...keep your jesus to yourself and I'll keep my opinion about jesus to myself?

good answer

ummm I just posted on thread called Christian Republicans but as you wish cinci.
btw I didn't entend for my words to be hurtful I apoligize to you cinci and HFD that they seemed that way.

Godfather.

mikepegg44

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

those charities are wonderful, but they are not equipped to feed the needy on a massive scale. the government is the only organization that is big enough to do that and do it timely and efficiently. your views on government will never allow you to concede that point. i get that.

yep. That definitely clouds my opinion on the matter. But I don't believe that government intervention is either timely or efficient. So I suppose it is the binoculars you view it through that allow you to come to conclusions about what is best...I don't think forced giving is the best thing to do...it breeds resentment...

I do think the red cross operates pretty well, although they could obviously do a better job as well...

If we all thought locally when it comes to hunger we would be in a better way in general. That doesn't change the fact that a different philosophy on where giving should come from doesn't mean that republican voters are somehow less Christian because of it...

Again, I don't have a horse in the race, but if people who aren't muslim are going to come on here and defend muslims when they are unjustly stereotyped, they shouldn't be surprised when someone who isn't Christian comes to the defense of Christians. Neither should be negatively stereotyped IMO...

FiveB247x

Ok that sounds nice, but how come he gets all the praise of things men do or is the answer to all the unknowns that people causally fill in the blank? Can't have it both ways you know.

AndyVanSlyke wrote:

Godfather. wrote:

why do we blame Jesus for the choices of men ? Godfather.

Put that on a t-shirt...

Hugh Freaking Dillon

Godfather. wrote:

ummm I just posted on thread called Christian Republicans but as you wish cinci.
btw I didn't entend for my words to be hurtful I apoligize to you cinci and HFD that they seemed that way.

Godfather.

I didn't find anything hurtful.

cincybearcat

Godfather. wrote:

ummm I just posted on thread called Christian Republicans but as you wish cinci.
btw I didn't entend for my words to be hurtful I apoligize to you cinci and HFD that they seemed that way.

Godfather.

My "you" wasn't specifically you, it was the general "you"...make sense????

Not to mention, the OP is an idiot for posting this stupid thread anyhow. There is way too much hatred thrown at Christians and Christianity and I would certainly stand up for their right to believe what they want. It's when they try to push their beliefs into my personal life that I have a BIG problem.

gimmesometruth27

mikepegg44 wrote:

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

those charities are wonderful, but they are not equipped to feed the needy on a massive scale. the government is the only organization that is big enough to do that and do it timely and efficiently. your views on government will never allow you to concede that point. i get that.

yep. That definitely clouds my opinion on the matter. But I don't believe that government intervention is either timely or efficient. So I suppose it is the binoculars you view it through that allow you to come to conclusions about what is best...I don't think forced giving is the best thing to do...it breeds resentment...

I do think the red cross operates pretty well, although they could obviously do a better job as well...

If we all thought locally when it comes to hunger we would be in a better way in general. That doesn't change the fact that a different philosophy on where giving should come from doesn't mean that republican voters are somehow less Christian because of it...

Again, I don't have a horse in the race, but if people who aren't muslim are going to come on here and defend muslims when they are unjustly stereotyped, they shouldn't be surprised when someone who isn't Christian comes to the defense of Christians. Neither should be negatively stereotyped IMO...

are you saying that food stamps and wic are not timely or efficient? people SURVIVE BECAUSE of those programs when they otherwise might not. and yes, forced giving breeds resentment....to the selfish who resent giving... which is exactly what we would have if we did not have government intervention in the hunger issue. to normal people who care about others they are not nearly as resentful. just look at the republican controlled house right now. they are wanting to cut food aid to the needy. they are wanting to repeal the affordable care act that benefits the needy. if you withold money for food AND health insurance and access to medical care, those people are gonna die. it does not take a scientist to figure that out, and it doesn't take a person of faith to figure it out.

the government is involved because there are not enough good samaritans who want to donate money for food for the poor. people bitch that their taxes are high, so if their taxes are cut, i will bet my house that >75% of those people getting money back will not help the needy with that money. there are not enough christians out there to cover everyone in this country that needs food assistance. if the public can not play jesus, it is up to the only entity with the coffers to do so. the government must play jesus in that scenario.

BinauralJam

cincybearcat wrote:

Godfather. wrote:

ummm I just posted on thread called Christian Republicans but as you wish cinci.
btw I didn't entend for my words to be hurtful I apoligize to you cinci and HFD that they seemed that way.

Godfather.

My "you" wasn't specifically you, it was the general "you"...make sense????

Not to mention, the OP is an idiot for posting this stupid thread anyhow. There is way too much hatred thrown at Christians and Christianity and I would certainly stand up for their right to believe what they want. It's when they try to push their beliefs into my personal life that I have a BIG problem.

I don't think it's stupid, i think it's spot on.
http://christianstiredofbeingmisreprese ... gspot.com/

Godfather.

cincybearcat wrote:

Godfather. wrote:

ummm I just posted on thread called Christian Republicans but as you wish cinci.
btw I didn't entend for my words to be hurtful I apoligize to you cinci and HFD that they seemed that way.

Godfather.

My "you" wasn't specifically you, it was the general "you"...make sense????

Not to mention, the OP is an idiot for posting this stupid thread anyhow. There is way too much hatred thrown at Christians and Christianity and I would certainly stand up for their right to believe what they want. It's when they try to push their beliefs into my personal life that I have a BIG problem.

cool, I don't try and push my beliefs..I know I defend them but anyway I understand your post it makes fine sense no worries here.

Godfather.

Godfather.

Hugh Freaking Dillon wrote:

Godfather. wrote:

ummm I just posted on thread called Christian Republicans but as you wish cinci.
btw I didn't entend for my words to be hurtful I apoligize to you cinci and HFD that they seemed that way.

Godfather.

I didn't find anything hurtful.

cool !

Godfather.

polaris_x

BinauralJam wrote:

I don't think it's stupid, i think it's spot on.
http://christianstiredofbeingmisreprese ... gspot.com/

exactly why this thread is spot on ...

AndyVanSlyke

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

are you saying that food stamps and wic are not timely or efficient? people SURVIVE BECAUSE of those programs when they otherwise might not. and yes, forced giving breeds resentment....to the selfish who resent giving... which is exactly what we would have if we did not have government intervention in the hunger issue. to normal people who care about others they are not nearly as resentful. just look at the republican controlled house right now. they are wanting to cut food aid to the needy. they are wanting to repeal the affordable care act that benefits the needy. if you withold money for food AND health insurance and access to medical care, those people are gonna die. it does not take a scientist to figure that out, and it doesn't take a person of faith to figure it out.

the government is involved because there are not enough good samaritans who want to donate money for food for the poor. people bitch that their taxes are high, so if their taxes are cut, i will bet my house that >75% of those people getting money back will not help the needy with that money. there are not enough christians out there to cover everyone in this country that needs food assistance. if the public can not play jesus, it is up to the only entity with the coffers to do so. the government must play jesus in that scenario.

We've developed a fine line between entitlement & need. ENTITLEMENT should be very very very far from NEED. No matter the case, if the government removes these programs, people are going to go into survival mode and I hope that's when we become more Jesus-like.

However, there's more to social programs than welfare checks and food stamps. Public transportation, Brain Injury Rehabilitation, and other programs of the sort are developed to promote independence and eventually become more integrated into society.

I can't speak for the people who have learned that taking advantage is a way of life. But not everyone is like that...

mikepegg44

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

mikepegg44 wrote:

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

those charities are wonderful, but they are not equipped to feed the needy on a massive scale. the government is the only organization that is big enough to do that and do it timely and efficiently. your views on government will never allow you to concede that point. i get that.

yep. That definitely clouds my opinion on the matter. But I don't believe that government intervention is either timely or efficient. So I suppose it is the binoculars you view it through that allow you to come to conclusions about what is best...I don't think forced giving is the best thing to do...it breeds resentment...

I do think the red cross operates pretty well, although they could obviously do a better job as well...

If we all thought locally when it comes to hunger we would be in a better way in general. That doesn't change the fact that a different philosophy on where giving should come from doesn't mean that republican voters are somehow less Christian because of it...

Again, I don't have a horse in the race, but if people who aren't muslim are going to come on here and defend muslims when they are unjustly stereotyped, they shouldn't be surprised when someone who isn't Christian comes to the defense of Christians. Neither should be negatively stereotyped IMO...

are you saying that food stamps and wic are not timely or efficient? people SURVIVE BECAUSE of those programs when they otherwise might not. and yes, forced giving breeds resentment....to the selfish who resent giving... which is exactly what we would have if we did not have government intervention in the hunger issue. to normal people who care about others they are not nearly as resentful. just look at the republican controlled house right now. they are wanting to cut food aid to the needy. they are wanting to repeal the affordable care act that benefits the needy. if you withold money for food AND health insurance and access to medical care, those people are gonna die. it does not take a scientist to figure that out, and it doesn't take a person of faith to figure it out.

the government is involved because there are not enough good samaritans who want to donate money for food for the poor. people bitch that their taxes are high, so if their taxes are cut, i will bet my house that >75% of those people getting money back will not help the needy with that money. there are not enough christians out there to cover everyone in this country that needs food assistance. if the public can not play jesus, it is up to the only entity with the coffers to do so. the government must play jesus in that scenario.

Yes, I am saying that food stamps and wic are not efficient or timely in the least. Tell me the application process for it is timely and efficient, tell me that making 14400 is somehow more needy than someone who makes 14401...This isn't an opinion on the efficiency of gov't from the outside looking in...you need to remember that Gimmie. I work in public health...I see the inefficiency all the time, in every way, lots of my opinions about gov't have changed because of the work I have done over the last 6-7 years. I used to believe in gov't, believe they were there to help...but this isn't a discussion about the efficiency of gov't. As you know I can go on and on about that we won't agree. The government has some inherent advantages over charitable groups, but that doesn't mean they are better with the money and donations they get.
I don't hate giving and I am not selfish in the least. I don't think the programs should exist like they do. Seems like one cannot even talk about exploring another way of doing things, lest I be labeled insensitive to the needs of the poor...