Greyhound Bus Cannibal rehabilitated after 4 years?

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  • cincybearcat
    cincybearcat Posts: 16,840
    redrock wrote:

    Or ignorance.

    There is no 'norm' for schizophrenia. Schizophrenia which is under control. Also, he is supervised at all times.

    But one is aware of this but chooses to ignore.


    Oh please, here we go again. Someone doesn't agree and they are ignorant. Please. Such a dumbass comment, but so common around here.
    hippiemom = goodness
  • redrock
    redrock Posts: 18,341
    cincybearcat wrote:
    Here's an interesting article that fits into this discussion I think...

    http://www.cnn.com/2012/05/24/world/eur ... ?hpt=hp_c1

    Certainly challenges my view. Not so much in the case of cutting off someone's head, but still...

    All about rehabilitation. Punishment but also rehabilitation - not locked up somewhere with key thrown away. It is also understood that not everyone can be 'rehabilitated' in such a manner. The example given of this man who killed whilst in an alcoholic rage. I'm guessing he has also been treated for his alcoholism, thus the 'cause' of his action having been removed. The continued rehab will hopefully ensure this 'cause' will no longer be a temptation for him.

    It works.
  • cincybearcat
    cincybearcat Posts: 16,840
    redrock wrote:
    cincybearcat wrote:
    Here's an interesting article that fits into this discussion I think...

    http://www.cnn.com/2012/05/24/world/eur ... ?hpt=hp_c1

    Certainly challenges my view. Not so much in the case of cutting off someone's head, but still...

    All about rehabilitation. Punishment but also rehabilitation - not locked up somewhere with key thrown away. It is also understood that not everyone can be 'rehabilitated' in such a manner. The example given of this man who killed whilst in an alcoholic rage. I'm guessing he has also been treated for his alcoholism, thus the 'cause' of his action having been removed. The continued rehab will hopefully ensure this 'cause' will no longer be a temptation for him.

    It works.

    Yep, seems reasonable in certain cases. I don't think it applies directly to this one though.

    My favorite part is the job training portion people receive.
    hippiemom = goodness
  • redrock
    redrock Posts: 18,341
    cincybearcat wrote:
    redrock wrote:

    Or ignorance.

    There is no 'norm' for schizophrenia. Schizophrenia which is under control. Also, he is supervised at all times.

    But one is aware of this but chooses to ignore.


    Oh please, here we go again. Someone doesn't agree and they are ignorant. Please. Such a dumbass comment, but so common around here.

    I am not saying someone is ignorant. I am saying that one may be completely ignorant on the subject of this type of mental illness and therefore cannot make an informed judgement.
  • redrock
    redrock Posts: 18,341
    edited May 2012
    cincybearcat wrote:

    Yep, seems reasonable in certain cases. I don't think it applies directly to this one though.

    My favorite part is the job training portion people receive.
    You mean Li? His illness was the cause of his actions. His illness is being controlled (like many other patients with mental illnesses). Some people with mental illnesses can be fully rehabilitated, trusted to continue with therapy and meds and lead a perfectly normal life. Li is not being released, just a few, short, supervised outings as part of his rehabilitation. Due to the nature of the crime, he may always need to be monitored and never be released.
    Post edited by redrock on
  • polaris_x
    polaris_x Posts: 13,559
    cincybearcat wrote:
    1. Whats the purpose of a bullet again? Whats the purpose of a car?

    2. This doesn't make me more comfortable with him being out and about.

    3. Probably, but more than 1 as they all have different opinions on what to do. ;)

    4. No it's not, but thanks for telling me what I think yet again. I know he is escorted and it's temporary. So, if he can't control it, and the docs are wrong in that they don't have it under control...what happens to his escort? That's my point.

    I'm ok with it for criminals of lots of different crimes and backgrounds. This one scares the crap out of me. Would you spend a weekend in a hotel room with this guy? Would the docs treating him? I wonder.

    1. people fire bullets without to kill all the time at shooting and gun ranges
    2. i can see that - but your comfort or anyone else's is secondary
    3. doctors aren't perfect but they are supposed experts in their field and are trained for this work
    4. so - if you understand schizophrenia - why would you suggest he had control over his actions at the time of the murder? ... and why would you not understand that with treatment - many of the symptoms related to this illness can be controlled? ... if the doctors are wrong - they will be held accountable ... look at the article you just posted about re-offending rates ...

    my choice is obviously not to spend a weekend in a hotel room with this guy but i wouldn't spend a weekend in a hotel room with too many guys (sick or not sick) ... would you live with barrels of toxic waste in your backyard? ... probably not but no one seems to care that the shit is dumped into the public on a daily basis ...
  • cincybearcat
    cincybearcat Posts: 16,840
    polaris_x wrote:
    1. people fire bullets without to kill all the time at shooting and gun ranges
    2. i can see that - but your comfort or anyone else's is secondary
    3. doctors aren't perfect but they are supposed experts in their field and are trained for this work
    4. so - if you understand schizophrenia - why would you suggest he had control over his actions at the time of the murder? ... and why would you not understand that with treatment - many of the symptoms related to this illness can be controlled? ... if the doctors are wrong - they will be held accountable ... look at the article you just posted about re-offending rates ...

    my choice is obviously not to spend a weekend in a hotel room with this guy but i wouldn't spend a weekend in a hotel room with too many guys (sick or not sick) ... would you live with barrels of toxic waste in your backyard? ... probably not but no one seems to care that the shit is dumped into the public on a daily basis ...


    1. Funny, if this was a gun control thread I think you'd be singing a different tune. Maybe I'm wrong.

    2. Um, yes it does. Society matters and protecting the other people from killers matters.

    3. Yes, I understand, but they cannot eliminate all risk. And when he has already displayed the behavior he did, it's my belief that unless you can eliminate all risk, you keep someone under lock and key at all times.

    4. Where did I say he had control? I still think people are accountable for their actions regardless of control to some extent, but this is more about if his illness can be controlled to 100% confidence. That's where we differ. I have read the article and think its a good thing for white collar crime and lesser blue collar crime.

    You seem to care about the waste dumped into the public, why don't you care about this?
    hippiemom = goodness
  • Godfather.
    Godfather. Posts: 12,504
    http://www.cnn.com/2012/05/24/world/eur ... ?hpt=hp_c1

    I thought this was interesting...but crazy.

    Godfather.
  • redrock
    redrock Posts: 18,341
    Cincybearcat got there before you Godfather ;)

    Not crazy... it does work! But I guess it's a difficult concept to grasp when one is used to a society with 'punitive' prisons with no rehabilitation - just dealing with punishment.
  • polaris_x
    polaris_x Posts: 13,559
    cincybearcat wrote:
    1. Funny, if this was a gun control thread I think you'd be singing a different tune. Maybe I'm wrong.

    2. Um, yes it does. Society matters and protecting the other people from killers matters.

    3. Yes, I understand, but they cannot eliminate all risk. And when he has already displayed the behavior he did, it's my belief that unless you can eliminate all risk, you keep someone under lock and key at all times.

    4. Where did I say he had control? I still think people are accountable for their actions regardless of control to some extent, but this is more about if his illness can be controlled to 100% confidence. That's where we differ. I have read the article and think its a good thing for white collar crime and lesser blue collar crime.

    You seem to care about the waste dumped into the public, why don't you care about this?

    1. i don't believe in people shooting guns aimlessly ... :lol: ... it was just a point to show that drunk drivers may not intend to kill but their actions increase the risk

    2. no - it doesn't ... just because you are uncomfortable with a situation doesn't mean the law should cater to that ... society creates a judicial system based on a myriad of factors ... despite what you may or may not think - the person charged with a crime has rights ... this is ultimately a philosophical difference in how a state treats prisoners and the level of accountability a person with an illness has upon committing a crime

    3. again - this points to the philosophical difference ... no one can guarantee any criminal will not reoffend ... not for petty theft, murder or anything ...

    4. you want him to be accountable ... but the courts have ruled that he was not criminally responsible because of his illness ... that's the point ... it's not like they said - ok ... you're free to go ...

    i'm not saying i don't care - just pointing out the absurdity in your analogy asking people if they would spend a weekend with him in a hotel room ...
  • Godfather.
    Godfather. Posts: 12,504
    redrock wrote:
    Cincybearcat got there before you Godfather ;)

    Not crazy... it does work! But I guess it's a difficult concept to grasp when one is used to a society with 'punitive' prisons with no rehabilitation - just dealing with punishment.

    ahhh thanks, crazy meaning who has ever heard of such a thing ? but if it works more power to em.

    Godfather.
  • drinkbigredinstead
    drinkbigredinstead Posts: 2,240
    Sick. No amount of 'rehab' can fix this IMHO.

    *Didn't read all comments.
  • cincybearcat
    cincybearcat Posts: 16,840
    polaris_x wrote:
    i'm not saying i don't care - just pointing out the absurdity in your analogy asking people if they would spend a weekend with him in a hotel room ...


    You do seem to be an expert on absurd analogies so I will defer (ie. drunk driving = cutting someones head off and eating them). ;)

    ah well, we disagree, I'm shocked!!! :o
    hippiemom = goodness
  • Monster Rain
    Monster Rain Posts: 1,415
    The doctors first noticed he was civilized again when he started extending his pinky while drinking human blood.
  • polaris_x
    polaris_x Posts: 13,559
    cincybearcat wrote:
    You do seem to be an expert on absurd analogies so I will defer (ie. drunk driving = cutting someones head off and eating them). ;)

    ah well, we disagree, I'm shocked!!! :o

    you swung and missed on that point .. i'm not saying they are the same things ... only trying to infer the notion of choice ...

    but yeah - i'm not shocked we disagree ... :lol:
  • cincybearcat
    cincybearcat Posts: 16,840
    polaris_x wrote:
    cincybearcat wrote:
    You do seem to be an expert on absurd analogies so I will defer (ie. drunk driving = cutting someones head off and eating them). ;)

    ah well, we disagree, I'm shocked!!! :o

    you swung and missed on that point .. i'm not saying they are the same things ... only trying to infer the notion of choice ...

    but yeah - i'm not shocked we disagree ... :lol:

    oh well, was aiming for the fences.

    I hope all works out with this fella.
    hippiemom = goodness
  • Thirty Bills Unpaid
    Thirty Bills Unpaid Posts: 16,881
    redrock wrote:
    cincybearcat wrote:
    Here's an interesting article that fits into this discussion I think...

    http://www.cnn.com/2012/05/24/world/eur ... ?hpt=hp_c1

    Certainly challenges my view. Not so much in the case of cutting off someone's head, but still...

    All about rehabilitation. Punishment but also rehabilitation - not locked up somewhere with key thrown away. It is also understood that not everyone can be 'rehabilitated' in such a manner. The example given of this man who killed whilst in an alcoholic rage. I'm guessing he has also been treated for his alcoholism, thus the 'cause' of his action having been removed. The continued rehab will hopefully ensure this 'cause' will no longer be a temptation for him.

    It works.

    It's easy to suggest that rehabilitation works when you ignore the cases that haven't- resulting in innocent people getting hurt or losing their lives. Ask victims of paroled or released criminals how they view rehab. My point of view is that the 'collateral damage' resulting from of failed rehab efforts demands that people who commit violent crimes have forfeited their right to a normal life.

    Rehabilitation is not worth the risk. For every success... their are countless failures that have had the effect of creating more harm and perpetuating violence.
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • mysticweed
    mysticweed Posts: 3,710
    didn't pearl jam write a song about him . . .?
    fuck 'em if they can't take a joke

    "what a long, strange trip it's been"
  • keeponrockin
    keeponrockin Posts: 7,446
    Thirty Bills Unpaid wrote:

    Rehabilitation is not worth the risk. For every success... their are countless failures that have had the effect of creating more harm and perpetuating violence.
    Do you have statistics to back this up?
    Believe me, when I was growin up, I thought the worst thing you could turn out to be was normal, So I say freaks in the most complementary way. Here's a song by a fellow freak - E.V
  • catefrances
    catefrances Posts: 29,003
    Thirty Bills Unpaid wrote:
    Rehabilitation is not worth the risk. For every success... their are countless failures that have had the effect of creating more harm and perpetuating violence.

    this is why rehabilitation is 'worth the risk'.
    hear my name
    take a good look
    this could be the day
    hold my hand
    lie beside me
    i just need to say

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