Florida Teacher suspended over anti-homosexual remarks:

bgivens33 wrote:

Prince Of Dorkness wrote:

Just out of curiosity, if he was screwing an 18 year-old female student... but "on my own time in my own house and in my own bed," You think the school would say "Oh... well then.. that's ok."

If he had starred in a home porn movie with a goat.... you think the "I did it on my own time and in my own house on my own camera with my own goat" thing would have flown?

Or if he'd posted something like "The holocaust didn't happen, Jews are monkeys and swine, Hitler was a great man with a great plan" on his "own computer on his own time in his own house," you think the school would overlook that?

We can play this game all day.

I'm not going to speculate about what a school would have done in different situations, I don't have any idea how they would react.

My point was this, I think there is a legal inconsistency of supporting to fire this guy but not supporting to fire a school district for firing a teacher for posting pro-gay marriage comments, if that were to occur. It might be consistent within your own values or even within societies values, but legally, it is completely inconsistent. Either a teacher has free speech on facebook or he doesn't. End of story.

this isn't about free speech. He is still free to say whatever he wants. Speech has consequences. They aren't taking away his freedom, they are suspending him for conduct seen as deplorable and probably violating his union contract. as for the larger point you tried to make, being for the right for all to get married isn't discriminatory. It isn't a double standard, it isn't even close.

bgivens33 wrote:

I said in the OP that I don't believe school districts are bound by the first amendment, so I never meant to say this guy has a right to free speech, though it seemed to come off that way. What I'm saying is that if you support the right of a school district to suspend him for conduct seen as deplorable, then who determines what is seen as deplorable, you or the school district?

The way you're treating this issue is akin to comparing a paramedic to a serial killer. Firing somebody for public intolerance when his position strictly prohibits such an act isn't the same as firing somebody for trying to advocate tolerance. I'm not even sure that he was fired over his position on the issue; rather it was the way he expressed himself. If you're in a job which requires you to show tolerance to those you teach, lambasting them on facebook probably isn't going to do you much good. If his intolerance was directed towards any other group, odds are he still would have been handed his walking papers.

bgivens33 wrote:

blueandwhite wrote:

bgivens33 wrote:

I said in the OP that I don't believe school districts are bound by the first amendment, so I never meant to say this guy has a right to free speech, though it seemed to come off that way. What I'm saying is that if you support the right of a school district to suspend him for conduct seen as deplorable, then who determines what is seen as deplorable, you or the school district?

The way you're treating this issue is akin to comparing a paramedic to a serial killer. Firing somebody for public intolerance when his position strictly prohibits such an act isn't the same as firing somebody for trying to advocate tolerance. I'm not even sure that he was fired over his position on the issue; rather it was the way he expressed himself. If you're in a job which requires you to show tolerance to those you teach, lambasting them on facebook probably isn't going to do you much good. If his intolerance was directed towards any other group, odds are he still would have been handed his walking papers.

I understand why he was suspended, probably soon to be fire.

My point is, if you support the right of the school board to determine what they deem to be acceptable and unacceptable rhetoric, you are opening the door to a school board firing a teacher for something they deem to be unacceptable in which you completely disagree with them. The only recourse you would have is electing a new school board.

It seems the majority of this board believes this guy has no grounds for a lawsuit, in which I agree. Would a guy being fired for supporting gay marriage have grounds for a lawsuit?

That's just it; he directly went against his employer on a public forum. There's a reason that most people post anonymously on the internet. You're still culpable for your actions. This is doubly so when you work for a public institution which is subject to political sensitivities. As an employee of a school board, tact is an absolute necessity.

A teacher who posts comments that were so obviously blunt and politically charged is jeopardizing their career. The comments could have been about Christians, Muslims, ethnicity, social or economic status, or even about students in general; the outcome would have been the same. No school board wants a teacher who is going to invite political controversy into his or her classroom. This guy's conduct could easily invite lawsuits from parents and other advocacy groups who feel that certain learners are being unfairly discriminated against. As a professional, you really need to think about how you conduct yourself before you go on a rant that may ultimately cost you your job.

mikepegg44 wrote:

the teachers union and their collectively bargained contract usually.

and that is why i have a hard time supporting teachers because their union is too ridiculously powerful and makes it almost impossible to fire teachers short of them sleeping with their students.

fire him for being dumb enough to post such hate in a public forum. he can have those beliefs all he wants but posting them in a public forum shows a stupidity and misunderstanding of common sense and decency that he shouldn't be allowed to teach in a public school system. see ya chump.

and off topic i think we should stop giving teachers summers off, put them to work throughout the district/township and let them take vacations (you know days they get IN ADDITION to their summer offs) like the rest of the country. but that's just my opinion.

I do not believe a man that has been a role model teacher for 22 years deserves to loose his job because of how he believes… why should having a opinion warrant firing ….even if he did break some rule, he should not be fired for it. Firing a person is the most drastic step they could take and for such a small thing as having an opinion. Okay he did say it not so nicely …..
he has been a there for 22 years, I do not think his life should be turned upside down because of it……if you disagree then you maybe the “Hater”

bgivens33 wrote:

What did I speculate about that I said I wasn't going to speculate about?

"I'm not going to speculate about what a school would have done in different situations, I don't have any idea how they would react."

And then...

"My point was this, I think there is a legal inconsistency of supporting to fire this guy but not supporting to fire a school district for firing a teacher for posting pro-gay marriage comments, if that were to occur."

The second sentence is called "speculating as to what would happen if the situation were different." Do they not have dictionaries where you live?

OH... sorry.. are you Texan?

Prince Of Dorkness wrote:

aerial wrote:

I do not believe a man that has been a role model teacher for 22 years deserves to loose his job because of how he believes…

He was not fired for what he believes. He was fired for making extremely bigoted statements in a public forum, the same if he had posted "I don't like having to teach the darkies and the kikes."

He didn't say "I don't like teaching the fags" either, did he?

I've been digesting this thread all day trying to figure out what I think. One more question...this was posted on facebook and technically only viewable to "friends"?

cincybearcat wrote:

He didn't say "I don't like teaching the fags" either, did he?

Ok then.. if he'd said "bring back the Whites=Only fountains and send those N____ers to the back of the bus where they belong."

HE would have been fired. He was not fired for what he thought... he was fired for what and HOW he said what he said.

I've been digesting this thread all day trying to figure out what I think. One more question...this was posted on facebook and technically only viewable to "friends"?

He had 700 followers.

And his wall was public... anyone could view it. There was no privacy on it. That has been decided in MANY lawsuits to be a "public forum."

So no... what he said he said in public.