I Hate everything this man had to say, but i also feel he should be allowed to say it without recourse. Freedom is Everything, even when it's Really ugly. The man is an obvious Bigot, let that be his punishment, the fact that he just outed himself. Actually Losing his job because of Something/Anything you express on the internet, feels wrong to me.
Freedom of Speech gives you the right to say something, not the right to be free of consequences for saying it. No one is taking this guys right away from saying these things, but that doesn't mean he gets to keep his job. under your theory you could say horrible mean and unsavory things about your boss on the internet and still keep your job. and if you wouldn't say it in private you shouldn't write it on the internet.
I'm not going to speculate about what a school would have done in different situations, I don't have any idea how they would react.
My point was this, I think there is a legal inconsistency of supporting to fire this guy but not supporting to fire a school district for firing a teacher for posting pro-gay marriage comments, if that were to occur.
Haha... you're not even listening to yourself. Typical. You say "I'm not going to speculate" and then... you speculate. You say you have no idea how they would react... and then guess how people would react.
Not that it matters... saying you support or don't support gay marriage isn't what this guy was fired for. It was his very vile, hateful and rather vicious comments. "end of story" as you say.
What did I speculate about that I said I wasn't going to speculate about?
What is typical, that I don't listen to myself?
I Hate everything this man had to say, but i also feel he should be allowed to say it without recourse. Freedom is Everything, even when it's Really ugly. The man is an obvious Bigot, let that be his punishment, the fact that he just outed himself. Actually Losing his job because of Something/Anything you express on the internet, feels wrong to me.
Freedom of Speech gives you the right to say something, not the right to be free of consequences for saying it. No one is taking this guys right away from saying these things, but that doesn't mean he gets to keep his job. under your theory you could say horrible mean and unsavory things about your boss on the internet and still keep your job. and if you wouldn't say it in private you shouldn't write it on the internet.
I do not believe a man that has been a role model teacher for 22 years deserves to loose his job because of how he believes… why should having a opinion warrant firing ….even if he did break some rule, he should not be fired for it. Firing a person is the most drastic step they could take and for such a small thing as having an opinion. Okay he did say it not so nicely …..
he has been a there for 22 years, I do not think his life should be turned upside down because of it……if you disagree then you maybe the “Hater”
“We the people are the rightful masters of bothCongress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution.” Abraham Lincoln
I really can't for the life of me see that you think bigoted remarks should have the same consequences as non-bigoted remarks.
and it's not just what he said, others are correct, it's also how he said it. if he was promoting gay marriage by spewing hateful anti-hetero rhetoric, he should have seen the same fate.
I'm really not sure how much more black and white this can be.
he's a TEACHER.
he made public bigoted remarks. it matters not what his stance is.
under your theory, people who commit a crime should be held to the same account as someone who doesn't commit a crime.
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
What did I speculate about that I said I wasn't going to speculate about?
"I'm not going to speculate about what a school would have done in different situations, I don't have any idea how they would react."
And then...
"My point was this, I think there is a legal inconsistency of supporting to fire this guy but not supporting to fire a school district for firing a teacher for posting pro-gay marriage comments, if that were to occur."
The second sentence is called "speculating as to what would happen if the situation were different." Do they not have dictionaries where you live?
I do not believe a man that has been a role model teacher for 22 years deserves to loose his job because of how he believes…
He was not fired for what he believes. He was fired for making extremely bigoted statements in a public forum, the same if he had posted "I don't like having to teach the darkies and the kikes."
I do not believe a man that has been a role model teacher for 22 years deserves to loose his job because of how he believes…
He was not fired for what he believes. He was fired for making extremely bigoted statements in a public forum, the same if he had posted "I don't like having to teach the darkies and the kikes."
He didn't say "I don't like teaching the fags" either, did he?
I've been digesting this thread all day trying to figure out what I think. One more question...this was posted on facebook and technically only viewable to "friends"?
Quite torn on this one... I don't necessarily believe a school district is bound by the first amendment, so in that regard I don't mind their actions. On the other hand, this guy seemed to be a great teacher and the idea that a school district can suspend you for remarks on your facebook page is a bit disturbing. I'm not sure that is a good way to attract young, talented, educators to your school district. I don't want to turn this into a gay marriage thread, because honestly, this issue doesn't have much to do with gay marriage.
Whether you agree with his words or not, agree with his method or not
he should NOT lose his job over this.
Everyone has a right to their opinion... even the unpopular opinion.
If he were teaching this in his class ... trying to teach his students to hate,
putting personal opinion like this into the school's curriculum, then yes he should lose his job.
That would be way over the top and he would be showing signs of very inappropriate
teaching behavior.
But it seems he is a great teacher and does not let personal opinion interfere with teaching
and he has been honored and liked for his lifetime achievement.
Maybe that will change some now with his students and the faculty though.....
He didn't say "I don't like teaching the fags" either, did he?
Ok then.. if he'd said "bring back the Whites=Only fountains and send those N____ers to the back of the bus where they belong."
HE would have been fired. He was not fired for what he thought... he was fired for what and HOW he said what he said.
I've been digesting this thread all day trying to figure out what I think. One more question...this was posted on facebook and technically only viewable to "friends"?
He had 700 followers.
And his wall was public... anyone could view it. There was no privacy on it. That has been decided in MANY lawsuits to be a "public forum."
What did I speculate about that I said I wasn't going to speculate about?
"I'm not going to speculate about what a school would have done in different situations, I don't have any idea how they would react."
And then...
"My point was this, I think there is a legal inconsistency of supporting to fire this guy but not supporting to fire a school district for firing a teacher for posting pro-gay marriage comments, if that were to occur."
The second sentence is called "speculating as to what would happen if the situation were different." Do they not have dictionaries where you live?
OH... sorry.. are you Texan?
I said I was not going to speculate how the school would react to these situations in which you posted:
"if he was screwing an 18 year-old female student... but "on my own time in my own house and in my own bed," You think the school would say "Oh... well then.. that's ok."
If he had starred in a home porn movie with a goat.... you think the "I did it on my own time and in my own house on my own camera with my own goat" thing would have flown?
Or if he'd posted something like "The holocaust didn't happen, Jews are monkeys and swine, Hitler was a great man with a great plan" on his "own computer on his own time in his own house," you think the school would overlook that?"
My second sentence was a commentary on my perceived inconsistency of someone, not anyone involved in the school, supporting the school's right to fire someone conditionally, depending on what was said.
They are two completely different thoughts. You never answered my other question, what was typical?
Everyone has a right to their opinion... even the unpopular opinion.
He was NOT FIRED FOR HAVING AN OPINION.
Are people really this incapable of seeing that? He's had that opinion for years... and he's never been fired for it. But once he chose a public forum to post such vile, vicious stuff... he had to go.
I said I was not going to speculate how the school would react to these situations in which you posted:
But you're asking US to speculate on another hypothetical.
You never answered my other question, what was typical?
That you dodge questions that are no different from the ones you yourself ask... or answer questions with questions... it's a very conservative thing to do.
I said I was not going to speculate how the school would react to these situations in which you posted:
But you're asking US to speculate on another hypothetical.
You never answered my other question, what was typical?
That you dodge questions that are no different from the ones you yourself ask... or answer questions with questions... it's a very conservative thing to do.
I'm asking an opinion on a hypothetical, that is much different that guessing how someone else would respond. I simply asked how one(not the school) would respond if a teacher was fired for posting pro-gay marriage rhetoric on his facebook page. You asked me how the school would respond in different situations. I'm not in a position to answer for the school.
Everyone has a right to their opinion... even the unpopular opinion.
He was NOT FIRED FOR HAVING AN OPINION.
Are people really this incapable of seeing that? He's had that opinion for years... and he's never been fired for it. But once he chose a public forum to post such vile, vicious stuff... he had to go.
he has a right to his opinion when he is NOT in the classroom... and this I made clear in my post
He has a right to say his opinion as long as he is not doing it while teaching a classroom of kids
that is my opinion
he has a right to his opinion when he is NOT in the classroom... and this I made clear in my post
And I made it clear in my post that he wasn't fired for having an opinion.
He has a right to say his opinion as long as he is not doing it while teaching a classroom of kids
that is my opinion
He does have the right. And the law agrees that the school has the right to fire him when he airs such a vile diatribe in a public forum. And that's no my "opinion," it's just a legal fact.
Just to bring this back to a non-hypothetical, real-life instance.
This is a man who said that gay marriage makes him want to "throw up" and called gay unions a "cesspool." And he chose a very public forum to do it.
This man is not a role model, he's just a classless bully who likes to use foul language to describe people he doesn't like. F*ck him. Hope he has to take a job saying "you want fries with that?"
I'm asking an opinion on a hypothetical, that is much different that guessing how someone else would respond.
Um.. no.. that's kinda the textbook definition of "hypothetical."
Let me back up.
You asked me to predict how the school would react given different scenarios. I said I don't speak for the school so I can't comment on how they would react.
I have, however, asked how people on this message board would react if a teacher had been fired for making pro-gay marriage comments.
You asked me to speak for someone else, I asked people to speak for themselves. What part of that do you have a problem with?
I have, however, asked how people on this message board would react if a teacher had been fired for making pro-gay marriage comments.
can you think of a pro-gay marriage comment that would include the terms "throw up" and "cesspool?"
This wasn't anything to do with "pro-" or "anti-" anything.
so the answer is "that's NOT what happened... so I can't comment on a hypothetical situation where he made such a vile statement but came out in support of gay marriage."
I have, however, asked how people on this message board would react if a teacher had been fired for making pro-gay marriage comments.
can you think of a pro-gay marriage comment that would include the terms "throw up" and "cesspool?"
This wasn't anything to do with "pro-" or "anti-" anything.
so the answer is "that's NOT what happened... so I can't comment on a hypothetical situation where he made such a vile statement but came out in support of gay marriage."
I am going to throw up all over those who have thrown themselves into a cesspool of bigotry and intolerance until all have the right to get married...
don't think i would get fired for that one though.
that’s right! Can’t we all just get together and focus on our real enemies: monogamous gays and stem cells… - Ned Flanders
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
I have, however, asked how people on this message board would react if a teacher had been fired for making pro-gay marriage comments.
can you think of a pro-gay marriage comment that would include the terms "throw up" and "cesspool?"
This wasn't anything to do with "pro-" or "anti-" anything.
so the answer is "that's NOT what happened... so I can't comment on a hypothetical situation where he made such a vile statement but came out in support of gay marriage."
If someone chooses not to comment on a hypothetical situation, that is their prerogative and I can understand that decision. That is, however, much different from asking someone to comment on how someone else would react. I will always give an opinion on how I would react to a situation, even if the answer is I don't know. I won't comment on how I think someone else will react. I'm sorry if you think that means I'm not listening to myself.
I'm sorry if you think that means I'm not listening to myself.
Well, I do.
You won't comment on a "do you think he'd be fired for something else" and you won't say. Then you ask us "how would you react if he were fired for saying something else?"
And... well sorry... but he didn't say something else. He said what he said.
I'm sorry if you think that means I'm not listening to myself.
Well, I do.
You won't comment on a "do you think he'd be fired for something else" and you won't say. Then you ask us "how would you react if he were fired for saying something else?"
And... well sorry... but he didn't say something else. He said what he said.
I asked for people to speak for themselves. You asked me to speak for other people. I'm confused how you can think that is the same thing.
Everyone has a right to their opinion... even the unpopular opinion.
He was NOT FIRED FOR HAVING AN OPINION.
Are people really this incapable of seeing that? He's had that opinion for years... and he's never been fired for it. But once he chose a public forum to post such vile, vicious stuff... he had to go.
Well, if he did post this on his wall for the public to see, he is at the very least not that smart of a teacher. These comments certainly show a lack of judgement at least and hateful at worst. He should definitely be susoended but have an opportunity to keep his job deoending on his actions going forward. Hell, we let drug addicts get a chance at redewming themselves, why not somwone like this teacher?
Hell, we let drug addicts get a chance at redewming themselves, why not somwone like this teacher?
I'm pretty sure if a teacher was caught doing smack in his own house, he probably would get fired for that, too.
He's totally allowed to redeem himself and I'm sure some private Christian school has already offered him a tenured position.
Now what if you got fired for this? this one post? called off set tomorrow and told collect your stuff, your out.
I mean someone could take the totality of your posts, and surmise a Anti-Christian theme, which would then get you fired from directing gay porn, O.k. bad example, but you get my point? yes/no
There might be alot of christains offended by you and demand action be taken, but should it? Shouldn't Everyone be allowed to express themselves? Even if like, this guy, a homophobic piece of shit, atleast thats the world i would rather live in/ that Norman Rockwell shit scares me.
Comments
Freedom of Speech gives you the right to say something, not the right to be free of consequences for saying it. No one is taking this guys right away from saying these things, but that doesn't mean he gets to keep his job. under your theory you could say horrible mean and unsavory things about your boss on the internet and still keep your job. and if you wouldn't say it in private you shouldn't write it on the internet.
What did I speculate about that I said I wasn't going to speculate about?
What is typical, that I don't listen to myself?
There Words, why do we have to punish people?
he has been a there for 22 years, I do not think his life should be turned upside down because of it……if you disagree then you maybe the “Hater”
and it's not just what he said, others are correct, it's also how he said it. if he was promoting gay marriage by spewing hateful anti-hetero rhetoric, he should have seen the same fate.
I'm really not sure how much more black and white this can be.
he's a TEACHER.
he made public bigoted remarks. it matters not what his stance is.
under your theory, people who commit a crime should be held to the same account as someone who doesn't commit a crime.
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
"I'm not going to speculate about what a school would have done in different situations, I don't have any idea how they would react."
And then...
"My point was this, I think there is a legal inconsistency of supporting to fire this guy but not supporting to fire a school district for firing a teacher for posting pro-gay marriage comments, if that were to occur."
The second sentence is called "speculating as to what would happen if the situation were different." Do they not have dictionaries where you live?
OH... sorry.. are you Texan?
He was not fired for what he believes. He was fired for making extremely bigoted statements in a public forum, the same if he had posted "I don't like having to teach the darkies and the kikes."
He didn't say "I don't like teaching the fags" either, did he?
I've been digesting this thread all day trying to figure out what I think. One more question...this was posted on facebook and technically only viewable to "friends"?
he should NOT lose his job over this.
Everyone has a right to their opinion... even the unpopular opinion.
If he were teaching this in his class ... trying to teach his students to hate,
putting personal opinion like this into the school's curriculum, then yes he should lose his job.
That would be way over the top and he would be showing signs of very inappropriate
teaching behavior.
But it seems he is a great teacher and does not let personal opinion interfere with teaching
and he has been honored and liked for his lifetime achievement.
Maybe that will change some now with his students and the faculty though.....
Loose lips sink ships.
Ok then.. if he'd said "bring back the Whites=Only fountains and send those N____ers to the back of the bus where they belong."
HE would have been fired. He was not fired for what he thought... he was fired for what and HOW he said what he said.
He had 700 followers.
And his wall was public... anyone could view it. There was no privacy on it. That has been decided in MANY lawsuits to be a "public forum."
So no... what he said he said in public.
I said I was not going to speculate how the school would react to these situations in which you posted:
"if he was screwing an 18 year-old female student... but "on my own time in my own house and in my own bed," You think the school would say "Oh... well then.. that's ok."
If he had starred in a home porn movie with a goat.... you think the "I did it on my own time and in my own house on my own camera with my own goat" thing would have flown?
Or if he'd posted something like "The holocaust didn't happen, Jews are monkeys and swine, Hitler was a great man with a great plan" on his "own computer on his own time in his own house," you think the school would overlook that?"
My second sentence was a commentary on my perceived inconsistency of someone, not anyone involved in the school, supporting the school's right to fire someone conditionally, depending on what was said.
They are two completely different thoughts. You never answered my other question, what was typical?
He was NOT FIRED FOR HAVING AN OPINION.
Are people really this incapable of seeing that? He's had that opinion for years... and he's never been fired for it. But once he chose a public forum to post such vile, vicious stuff... he had to go.
But you're asking US to speculate on another hypothetical.
That you dodge questions that are no different from the ones you yourself ask... or answer questions with questions... it's a very conservative thing to do.
I'm asking an opinion on a hypothetical, that is much different that guessing how someone else would respond. I simply asked how one(not the school) would respond if a teacher was fired for posting pro-gay marriage rhetoric on his facebook page. You asked me how the school would respond in different situations. I'm not in a position to answer for the school.
What question have I not answered?
He has a right to say his opinion as long as he is not doing it while teaching a classroom of kids
that is my opinion
BBL as i used to say in the old days on AOL.
And I made it clear in my post that he wasn't fired for having an opinion.
He does have the right. And the law agrees that the school has the right to fire him when he airs such a vile diatribe in a public forum. And that's no my "opinion," it's just a legal fact.
Um.. no.. that's kinda the textbook definition of "hypothetical."
This is a man who said that gay marriage makes him want to "throw up" and called gay unions a "cesspool." And he chose a very public forum to do it.
This man is not a role model, he's just a classless bully who likes to use foul language to describe people he doesn't like. F*ck him. Hope he has to take a job saying "you want fries with that?"
Let me back up.
You asked me to predict how the school would react given different scenarios. I said I don't speak for the school so I can't comment on how they would react.
I have, however, asked how people on this message board would react if a teacher had been fired for making pro-gay marriage comments.
You asked me to speak for someone else, I asked people to speak for themselves. What part of that do you have a problem with?
can you think of a pro-gay marriage comment that would include the terms "throw up" and "cesspool?"
This wasn't anything to do with "pro-" or "anti-" anything.
so the answer is "that's NOT what happened... so I can't comment on a hypothetical situation where he made such a vile statement but came out in support of gay marriage."
I am going to throw up all over those who have thrown themselves into a cesspool of bigotry and intolerance until all have the right to get married...
don't think i would get fired for that one though.
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
If someone chooses not to comment on a hypothetical situation, that is their prerogative and I can understand that decision. That is, however, much different from asking someone to comment on how someone else would react. I will always give an opinion on how I would react to a situation, even if the answer is I don't know. I won't comment on how I think someone else will react. I'm sorry if you think that means I'm not listening to myself.
Well, I do.
You won't comment on a "do you think he'd be fired for something else" and you won't say. Then you ask us "how would you react if he were fired for saying something else?"
And... well sorry... but he didn't say something else. He said what he said.
I asked for people to speak for themselves. You asked me to speak for other people. I'm confused how you can think that is the same thing.
You hit the nail on the head, well said.
I'm pretty sure if a teacher was caught doing smack in his own house, he probably would get fired for that, too.
He's totally allowed to redeem himself and I'm sure some private Christian school has already offered him a tenured position.
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
Now what if you got fired for this? this one post? called off set tomorrow and told collect your stuff, your out.
I mean someone could take the totality of your posts, and surmise a Anti-Christian theme, which would then get you fired from directing gay porn,
There might be alot of christains offended by you and demand action be taken, but should it? Shouldn't Everyone be allowed to express themselves? Even if like, this guy, a homophobic piece of shit, atleast thats the world i would rather live in/ that Norman Rockwell shit scares me.