Hell, we let drug addicts get a chance at redewming themselves, why not somwone like this teacher?
I'm pretty sure if a teacher was caught doing smack in his own house, he probably would get fired for that, too.
He's totally allowed to redeem himself and I'm sure some private Christian school has already offered him a tenured position.
Now what if you got fired for this? this one post? called off set tomorrow and told collect your stuff, your out.
I mean someone could take the totality of your posts, and surmise a Anti-Christian theme, which would then get you fired from directing gay porn, O.k. bad example, but you get my point? yes/no
There might be alot of christains offended by you and demand action be taken, but should it? Shouldn't Everyone be allowed to express themselves? Even if like, this guy, a homophobic piece of shit, atleast thats the world i would rather live in/ that Norman Rockwell shit scares me.
LET'S SAY THIS ONE LAST TIME. EVERYONE IS ALLOWED THEIR OPINION. BUT EVERYONE NEEDS TO BE AWARE OF THE POSSIBLE CONSEQUENCES OF EXPRESSING SAID OPINION IN A PUBLIC FORUM DEPENDING ON CONTEXT (like a teacher saying it as opposed to a warehouse janitor).
should it be ok if he called a black person a....um....you know.....that N word on Facebook? would he still have his job then? NO. because a teacher is supposed to be a role model for their students, not someone who promotes hate towards others that are different than them.
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
Now what if you got fired for this? this one post? called off set tomorrow and told collect your stuff, your out.
I mean someone could take the totality of your posts, and surmise a Anti-Christian theme, which would then get you fired from directing gay porn, O.k. bad example, but you get my point? yes/no
No. Not really. What I said is true... he's probably already been offered another job. He was "teacher of the year" and he's obviously a devout Christian and there are plenty of Christians that don't find his words to be offensive... so that's probably who'd hire a "teacher of the year."
I didn't say "It makes me want to barf that christians would hire him" or "That Private Christian cesspool they call a school" so I'm not sure how anyone reasonable could be offended by that.
There might be alot of christains offended by you and demand action be taken, but should it?
If there was an elected board that chose who got to yell "ACTION !!! I DONT CARE WHAT YOU SMELL, STICK YOUR FACE IN THERE!!! NOW!!! AND SMILE!!! LOOK LIKE YOU LIKE IT, DAMMIT!!!" then yeah... I guess I'd have to follow their rules of public behavior. Since I was offered my job by a man who released a DVD called "Uncle Jake's Bareback 101," I'm going to say I'm probably safe from the PTA.
But there's yet another reason I didn't become a teacher like my parents wanted me to... I don't follow the rule other people lay out for what is and isn't acceptable behaviour. So... I wouldn't have lasted long.
Shouldn't Everyone be allowed to express themselves?
He's allowed to express himself. He wasn't arrested and Facebook didn't ban him. But he has a job that has a code of conduct and he broke it. end of story.
Even if like, this guy, a homophobic piece of shit, atleast thats the world i would rather live in/ that Norman Rockwell shit scares me.
Wait... Norman Rockwell painted pictures of gay weddings?
Man, I must have missed that issue of the Saturday Evening Post.
bye Norman Rockwell i ment, that perfect Clean Cut Americana, a little to Nazi like for me, i like variety, trying to show you the value of free speech, pretty sure i failed, but ya gotta try.
he has a right to his opinion when he is NOT in the classroom... and this I made clear in my post
And I made it clear in my post that he wasn't fired for having an opinion.
He has a right to say his opinion as long as he is not doing it while teaching a classroom of kids
that is my opinion
He does have the right. And the law agrees that the school has the right to fire him when he airs such a vile diatribe in a public forum. And that's no my "opinion," it's just a legal fact.
another example of injustice in our justice system ... seems to be going around
this needs to change that a teacher can not give his opinion in public on his own time :crazy:
I wonder what said and who will be considered 'vile' in the future...
For the most part, people can be fired for any reason or no reason at all so this is kind of a non-issue. He is still allowed by law to express himself in this manner.
At least in his case, he knows why he was fired. Many people never have a clue.
The only people we should try to get even with...
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
Hell, we let drug addicts get a chance at redewming themselves, why not somwone like this teacher?
I'm pretty sure if a teacher was caught doing smack in his own house, he probably would get fired for that, too.
He's totally allowed to redeem himself and I'm sure some private Christian school has already offered him a tenured position.
Sounds like you want to throw all Employee Assistance Programs out the door then...I'm fine with it, but then don't come crying to me when a lazy drugged up piece of shit gets fired instead of getting the help their "disease" requires.
he has a right to his opinion when he is NOT in the classroom... and this I made clear in my post
And I made it clear in my post that he wasn't fired for having an opinion.
He has a right to say his opinion as long as he is not doing it while teaching a classroom of kids
that is my opinion
He does have the right. And the law agrees that the school has the right to fire him when he airs such a vile diatribe in a public forum. And that's no my "opinion," it's just a legal fact.
another example of injustice in our justice system ... seems to be going around
this needs to change that a teacher can not give his opinion in public on his own time :crazy:
I wonder what said and who will be considered 'vile' in the future...
out of control in the wrong way
The first amendment protects you from the government, not your employer. He isn't having his freedom taken away. no one forced him to work for this school district. No one forced him to say stupid things. he did that all on his own. This isn't a justice system problem. It is a stupid person problem that cannot follow the rules set out by his employer. If he ends up getting fired he has no one to blame but himself. Go teach at a christian private school. If he is a good teacher, I am sure he can find work again. But after 22 years, and I can only assume tenure, to get suspended and possibly fired over this means they are taking it very seriously.
that’s right! Can’t we all just get together and focus on our real enemies: monogamous gays and stem cells… - Ned Flanders
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
another example of injustice in our justice system ... seems to be going around
this needs to change that a teacher can not give his opinion in public on his own time :crazy:
I wonder what said and who will be considered 'vile' in the future...
out of control in the wrong way
The first amendment protects you from the government, not your employer. He isn't having his freedom taken away. no one forced him to work for this school district. No one forced him to say stupid things. he did that all on his own. This isn't a justice system problem. It is a stupid person problem that cannot follow the rules set out by his employer. If he ends up getting fired he has no one to blame but himself. Go teach at a christian private school. If he is a good teacher, I am sure he can find work again. But after 22 years, and I can only assume tenure, to get suspended and possibly fired over this means they are taking it very seriously.
He is having his freedom taken away though whether that is by gov or employer...
from what people are saying it is a law, something legal and it is taking away his basic right to freedom of speech.
He didn't say it in the classroom in his place of employment on school time,
didn't force anyone to have the same opinion, he didn't ask students to even listen or read.
Just said his beliefs which we should all have the right to say even if its not a popular opinion.
He did not break a law, he did not change anything about the teacher he has been for 22 years.
He should not lose his job over this.
It is another form of bullying
requiring everyone to accept things they do not feel are right in their heart. To keep quiet.
Let people find their own way in their own time.
He has a right to feel about gay marriage the way he chooses
and should have the right to speak about it
but not teach it while he is a teacher in the classroom, that is not part of the curriculum.
But seeing he is a human being he should have the same privilege as others do ...
to voice their opinion on his free 'human time' when he is Jerry ... not Mr Buell.
We help people that do dangerous things and put themselves and their coworkers in REAL danger, yet we fire people for words on a computer screen. Career gone for words on a computer screen.
another example of injustice in our justice system ... seems to be going around
this needs to change that a teacher can not give his opinion in public on his own time :crazy:
I wonder what said and who will be considered 'vile' in the future...
out of control in the wrong way
The first amendment protects you from the government, not your employer. He isn't having his freedom taken away. no one forced him to work for this school district. No one forced him to say stupid things. he did that all on his own. This isn't a justice system problem. It is a stupid person problem that cannot follow the rules set out by his employer. If he ends up getting fired he has no one to blame but himself. Go teach at a christian private school. If he is a good teacher, I am sure he can find work again. But after 22 years, and I can only assume tenure, to get suspended and possibly fired over this means they are taking it very seriously.
1He is having his freedom taken away though whether that is by gov or employer...
from what people are saying it is a law, something legal and it is taking away his basic right to freedom of speech.
He didn't say it in the classroom in his place of employment on school time,
didn't force anyone to have the same opinion, he didn't ask students to even listen or read.
Just said his beliefs which we should all have the right to say even if its not a popular opinion.
He did not break a law, 2he did not change anything about the teacher he has been for 22 years.
3He should not lose his job over this.
4It is another form of bullying
requiring everyone to accept things they do not feel are right in their heart. To keep quiet.
Let people find their own way in their own time.
5 He has a right to feel about gay marriage the way he chooses
and should have the right to speak about it
but not teach it while he is a teacher in the classroom, that is not part of the curriculum.
But seeing he is a human being he should have the same privilege as others do ...
to voice their opinion on his free 'human time' when he is Jerry ... not Mr Buell.
1. No one said, or I should say meant to say it was a law, what was meant was that there is legal precedent set that posting things on facebook is grounds for being fired. That is very different from this being a criminal proceeding. Now law shall abridged the freedom of speech. This isn't a law it is a union contract that has a personal conduct policy. He isn't going to prison. You have the right to free speech but that doesn't mean all speech is free from social consequences, just legal ones. I think he should be far away from kids, but I suppose he could find work at a fundamentalist christian school.
2. He did change as a teacher the moment he made intolerant comments on a public forum. His ability to teach will now have been affected. Those who are gay in his classroom will feel that there teacher hates them, those other kids at the school who are gay may feel scared to come out for fear of retribution from the faculty. Replace gay with black or interracial marriage...and you have the same thing. Wouldn't want someone who publicly espouses hatred of interracial marriage teaching kids either.
3. that is where I disagree the most. He should lose his job over this... he didn't just say he is against gay marriage. he used pretty derogatory language in relaying his opinion. It is one thing to say I am against gay marriage...it is a completely different thing to call it a sin and a cesspool. that is hate speech.
4. No one is requiring anyone to accept anything. They are requiring that a teacher not put hate speech out in an open forum. That isn't bullying. He wasn't being forced to perform a service where two men got married...Telling someone they are involved in filthy behavior and making them feel like less than human is bullying.
5. He has the right to feel how he chooses and he has the right to talk about...just like his employer has the right to fire him for making hateful remarks about an entire group of people. He could have said I believe marriage is between a man and a woman, instead he chose a different route...if he had gone with the former I bet we wouldn't be having this conversation.
He is at fault for being callous and careless. when you have homosexual teens killing themselves because of, among other things, fear of not being accepted...you cannot have a teacher who comes across as being disgusted and sickened publicly by something those kids did not choose to be. If you don't like the rules that you need to live by in order to have a certain job, move on.
that’s right! Can’t we all just get together and focus on our real enemies: monogamous gays and stem cells… - Ned Flanders
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
We help people that do dangerous things and put themselves and their coworkers in REAL danger, yet we fire people for words on a computer screen. Career gone for words on a computer screen.
That doesn't seems silly to anyone?
it seems silly that a grown man would use FACEBOOK to promote the way he was sickened and disgusted by two people getting married. Which is sillier?
I am also curious as to what you meant by the first sentence? are you talking about drug rehab?
that’s right! Can’t we all just get together and focus on our real enemies: monogamous gays and stem cells… - Ned Flanders
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
We help people that do dangerous things and put themselves and their coworkers in REAL danger, yet we fire people for words on a computer screen. Career gone for words on a computer screen.
That doesn't seems silly to anyone?
it seems silly that a grown man would use FACEBOOK to promote the way he was sickened and disgusted by two people getting married. Which is sillier?
I am also curious as to what you meant by the first sentence? are you talking about drug rehab?
People in manufacturing are found to be high, drunk, etc. all the time WHILE they are working with machinery and around co-workers, etc. That's pretty damn dangerous, no? Have you ever seen someone that injured themselves while high at work? They do some stupid things.
I just think we need to be careful, how far are we willing to go down this slope?
His union contract should not include personal opinion when not in the classroom.
They should have no control over a person like that
and I bet this teacher of 22 years had no clue they did.
In some eyes he changed maybe for those who do not agree with his opinion
but we do not have any proof he has changed from the teacher he was
and was honored and loved for being.
That is not bullying to say you do not agree with the sexual habits of same sex couples
but it is bullying to lose your job or be forced to agree with something you do not.
He was not requiring anyone to agree with him. He was not in the classroom.
If he was then he should be fired... that would be bullying the students
and teaching outside the curriculum.
Homosexual children will run into people who do not accept them.
But this the sad fact of life for each and everyone of us.
There will always be people who judge, don't understand, put others down
those who are different than themselves. Each person has battles to overcome.
People judge others and it seems rampant more than ever.
Because a teacher outside a classroom has an opinion against the conduct of a group of people
this should not be grounds to fire that teacher unless he brought it to the students
in his classroom.
This teacher should resume his job and the school, students, faculty
and parents will decide over a period of time if this has effected his teaching value.
If so then he should be let go with full benefits.
If one hates the haters.... they become a hater.
With understanding comes more understanding ...
it is learned in time with positive interaction.
We help people that do dangerous things and put themselves and their coworkers in REAL danger, yet we fire people for words on a computer screen. Career gone for words on a computer screen.
That doesn't seems silly to anyone?
it seems silly that a grown man would use FACEBOOK to promote the way he was sickened and disgusted by two people getting married. Which is sillier?
I am also curious as to what you meant by the first sentence? are you talking about drug rehab?
People in manufacturing are found to be high, drunk, etc. all the time WHILE they are working with machinery and around co-workers, etc. That's pretty damn dangerous, no? Have you ever seen someone that injured themselves while high at work? They do some stupid things.
I just think we need to be careful, how far are we willing to go down this slope?
I agree with you, but there are places he will be able to teach again. I just had an old co-worker at a different job get fired for smoking dope. He only did it at home. While I find it ridiculous that you can still get in trouble for weed, it is the employers right to have rules at work. if you violate them you will be sent packing.
there are many ways to say what he said. he chose a derogatory way.
that’s right! Can’t we all just get together and focus on our real enemies: monogamous gays and stem cells… - Ned Flanders
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
it seems silly that a grown man would use FACEBOOK to promote the way he was sickened and disgusted by two people getting married. Which is sillier?
I am also curious as to what you meant by the first sentence? are you talking about drug rehab?
People in manufacturing are found to be high, drunk, etc. all the time WHILE they are working with machinery and around co-workers, etc. That's pretty damn dangerous, no? Have you ever seen someone that injured themselves while high at work? They do some stupid things.
I just think we need to be careful, how far are we willing to go down this slope?
I agree with you, but there are places he will be able to teach again. I just had an old co-worker at a different job get fired for smoking dope. He only did it at home. While I find it ridiculous that you can still get in trouble for weed, it is the employers right to have rules at work. if you violate them you will be sent packing.
there are many ways to say what he said. he chose a derogatory way.
Well then, this is going to open up everyone that attends a rally and how they behave there and what they say...be careful, you are always being watched. And even if it has no effect on your job, you can lose it for expressing your opinions.
What's all those rock stars always saying???? Oh yeah, you have the right to speak your mind so long as you aren't stupid enough to actually try it.
I don't disagree that something needed to happen with this teacher, but firing is a way too far.
His union contract should not include personal opinion when not in the classroom.
They should have no control over a person like that
and I bet this teacher of 22 years had no clue they did.
In some eyes he changed maybe for those who do not agree with his opinion
but we do not have any proof he has changed from the teacher he was
and was honored and loved for being.
That is not bullying to say you do not agree with the sexual habits of same sex couples
but it is bullying to lose your job or be forced to agree with something you do not.
He was not requiring anyone to agree with him. He was not in the classroom.
If he was then he should be fired... that would be bullying the students
and teaching outside the curriculum.
Homosexual children will run into people who do not accept them.
But this the sad fact of life for each and everyone of us.
There will always be people who judge, don't understand, put others down
those who are different than themselves. Each person has battles to overcome.
People judge others and it seems rampant more than ever.
Because a teacher outside a classroom has an opinion against the conduct of a group of people
this should not be grounds to fire that teacher unless he brought it to the students
in his classroom.
This teacher should resume his job and the school, students, faculty
and parents will decide over a period of time if this has effected his teaching value.
If so then he should be let go with full benefits.
If one hates the haters.... they become a hater.
With understanding comes more understanding ...
it is learned in time with positive interaction.
HE ISN'T BEING DISCIPLINED FOR HAVING AN OPINION...
HE ISN'T BEING DISCIPLINED FOR HAVING AN OPINION...
HE ISN'T BEING DISCIPLINED FOR HAVING AN OPINION...
Now that that has sunk in, he is being disciplined for the way he chose to express it by his EMPLOYER. and yes, companies can fire you for all sorts of things that you do on your own time. If you commit a felony on your own time you are still able to be fired for it. Happens to NFLers all the time. When you are employed by someone you represent them all the time. Some employers care about their public image and some do not...those that do will have a personal conduct policy in their contracts. IGNORANCE OF THE RULES is no defense to them.
what about the analogy to interracial marriage? do you think he could keep his job if he used very negative language about it?
And you are right, it is not bullying to simply say you do not agree with some behavior...it is when you make people feel like less than human because of that behavior. And no one forced him to accept it. He isn't being punished for having an opinion
As far as the part in bold above. It did change his ability to teach. It outed an intolerant person who has contact with gay kids or friends of gay kids guaranteed. his ability to teach those will now be forever changed. It is okay to disagree, it is okay to have an opinion, you just should be prepared for the consequences of how you choose to make that opinion known.
that’s right! Can’t we all just get together and focus on our real enemies: monogamous gays and stem cells… - Ned Flanders
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
We help people that do dangerous things and put themselves and their coworkers in REAL danger, yet we fire people for words on a computer screen. Career gone for words on a computer screen.
That doesn't seems silly to anyone?
I get your point and I do agree with it to some degree.
The thing is, people get fired, let go, reorganized, whatever for a lot of silly reasons. That's not a defense of this situation, but just a comment on work in general. People are not entitled to jobs. They are at the mercy of their employers unless they are self-employed.....especially these days.
The only people we should try to get even with...
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
Well then, this is going to open up everyone that attends a rally and how they behave there and what they say...be careful, you are always being watched. And even if it has no effect on your job, you can lose it for expressing your opinions.
What's all those rock stars always saying???? Oh yeah, you have the right to speak your mind so long as you aren't stupid enough to actually try it.
I don't disagree that something needed to happen with this teacher, but firing is a way too far.
I believe he has only been suspended. But it wouldn't surprise me if he was fired. Like I said earlier, this will have an affect on his ability to teach.
Everything you do has a reaction. Both positive and negative. People can be free to be filled with all the hate they want, but when you express your opinions you should do it in a responsible and respectful manner. If he had done that I bet we wouldn't even be talking about this...If you disagree with gay marriage simply say that...it isn't wrong to have an opinion, trust me, if the union didn't agree with this punishment it wouldn't be happening. unions are very strong and without support from them disciplining of employees is extremely difficult. I run into it monthly.
whether they like it or not, teachers are held to a higher standard of behavior in public than a lot of other types of workers
that’s right! Can’t we all just get together and focus on our real enemies: monogamous gays and stem cells… - Ned Flanders
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
Nobody forced this man to become a teacher. He's been a teacher for 23 years and he knows that being a teacher comes with a code of conduct that extends into his personal life. He's known this the whole time.
Many people have been fired for "words on a computer screen." That's nothing new. It's been decided in countless cases that a posting on the internet is the same as yelling through a bullhorn or taking out a full-page ad in a newspaper. MANY people have been fired for Facebook and Twitter postings.
He was not fired for "having an opinion" or for "thinking things."
And yes... I'm sure if he'd used such foul language in an anti-Christian post, he'd have been fired for that, too.
His union contract should not include personal opinion when not in the classroom.
They should have no control over a person like that
and I bet this teacher of 22 years had no clue they did.
In some eyes he changed maybe for those who do not agree with his opinion
but we do not have any proof he has changed from the teacher he was
and was honored and loved for being.
That is not bullying to say you do not agree with the sexual habits of same sex couples
but it is bullying to lose your job or be forced to agree with something you do not.
He was not requiring anyone to agree with him. He was not in the classroom.
If he was then he should be fired... that would be bullying the students
and teaching outside the curriculum.
Homosexual children will run into people who do not accept them.
But this the sad fact of life for each and everyone of us.
There will always be people who judge, don't understand, put others down
those who are different than themselves. Each person has battles to overcome.
People judge others and it seems rampant more than ever.
Because a teacher outside a classroom has an opinion against the conduct of a group of people
this should not be grounds to fire that teacher unless he brought it to the students
in his classroom.
This teacher should resume his job and the school, students, faculty
and parents will decide over a period of time if this has effected his teaching value.
If so then he should be let go with full benefits.
If one hates the haters.... they become a hater.
With understanding comes more understanding ...
it is learned in time with positive interaction.
HE ISN'T BEING DISCIPLINED FOR HAVING AN OPINION...
HE ISN'T BEING DISCIPLINED FOR HAVING AN OPINION...
HE ISN'T BEING DISCIPLINED FOR HAVING AN OPINION...
Now that that has sunk in, he is being disciplined for the way he chose to express it by his EMPLOYER. and yes, companies can fire you for all sorts of things that you do on your own time. If you commit a felony on your own time you are still able to be fired for it. Happens to NFLers all the time. When you are employed by someone you represent them all the time. Some employers care about their public image and some do not...those that do will have a personal conduct policy in their contracts. IGNORANCE OF THE RULES is no defense to them.
what about the analogy to interracial marriage? do you think he could keep his job if he used very negative language about it?
And you are right, it is not bullying to simply say you do not agree with some behavior...it is when you make people feel like less than human because of that behavior. And no one forced him to accept it. He isn't being punished for having an opinion
As far as the part in bold above. It did change his ability to teach. It outed an intolerant person who has contact with gay kids or friends of gay kids guaranteed. his ability to teach those will now be forever changed. It is okay to disagree, it is okay to have an opinion, you just should be prepared for the consequences of how you choose to make that opinion known.
I don't think you understand... I need to say it again
HE SHOULD NOT BE FIRED FOR STATING HIS OPINION
if he had not stated his opinion he wouldn't be fired
so yes he is being fired for stating his opinion and not in the classroom either
my biggest point
NOT IN THE CLASSROOM!
And I do understand what you are saying but I am saying he should not be fired for this.
This is not a private company pretty sure it is a public school and this teacher, as I said,
should be allowed to return because he has supporters and has been a great teacher for 22 years!
See how it goes evaluate the situation based on many factors.
I hope he fights like hell so that a new precedent is in place for others
so we can all keep our freedom of speech
when it comes to our employment and speaking our opinions whatever they maybe.
I hope he fights like hell so that a new precedent is in place for others
so we can all keep our freedom of speech
Um... he still has his "Freedom of speech." He wasn't arrested.
OK.. let's break this down.
I have an opinion on the amount of brain cells that you have. But until I say something about it... I won't get banned from posting here at AMT.
I can still think what I think about you... but I'm not allowed to SAY it here. Now, if I WAS to say it... it's still my right to say it and I won't get arrested but I probably WILL get a reprimand for posting it on a public forum.
when it comes to our employment and speaking our opinions whatever they maybe.
And this is not a felony so .... :?
Saying "I think my boss if a moron and I hate his guts" is not a felony. Why don't you go post that on Twitter and Facebook. Come back and tell us what happens.
I hope he fights like hell so that a new precedent is in place for others
so we can all keep our freedom of speech
Um... he still has his "Freedom of speech." He wasn't arrested.
OK.. let's break this down.
I have an opinion on the amount of brain cells that you have. But until I say something about it... I won't get banned from posting here at AMT.
I can still think what I think about you... but I'm not allowed to SAY it here. Now, if I WAS to say it... it's still my right to say it and I won't get arrested but I probably WILL get a reprimand for posting it on a public forum.
when it comes to our employment and speaking our opinions whatever they maybe.
And this is not a felony so .... :?
Saying "I think my boss if a moron and I hate his guts" is not a felony. Why don't you go post that on Twitter and Facebook. Come back and tell us what happens.
I'm my own boss and I don't do facebook or twitter think they are really meaningless.
I get your point though with the few brain cells I have left
quite proud of the few I have left too
but even more so of my heart
But I get your need to put someone down kind of like the haters I mentioned before,
careful that makes you no better.
He didn't say a damn thing about his boss though so your example doesn't work.
Getting banned in a public forum is not like losing your livelihood either.
He should lose his job if he said it in the classroom
He should not lose his job for stating a personal opinion not in the classroom IMO.
Perhaps a lawyer will help him work that out. I hope so.
HE ISN'T BEING DISCIPLINED FOR HAVING AN OPINION...
HE ISN'T BEING DISCIPLINED FOR HAVING AN OPINION...
HE ISN'T BEING DISCIPLINED FOR HAVING AN OPINION...
Now that that has sunk in, he is being disciplined for the way he chose to express it by his EMPLOYER. and yes, companies can fire you for all sorts of things that you do on your own time. If you commit a felony on your own time you are still able to be fired for it. Happens to NFLers all the time. When you are employed by someone you represent them all the time. Some employers care about their public image and some do not...those that do will have a personal conduct policy in their contracts. IGNORANCE OF THE RULES is no defense to them.
what about the analogy to interracial marriage? do you think he could keep his job if he used very negative language about it?
And you are right, it is not bullying to simply say you do not agree with some behavior...it is when you make people feel like less than human because of that behavior. And no one forced him to accept it. He isn't being punished for having an opinion
As far as the part in bold above. It did change his ability to teach. It outed an intolerant person who has contact with gay kids or friends of gay kids guaranteed. his ability to teach those will now be forever changed. It is okay to disagree, it is okay to have an opinion, you just should be prepared for the consequences of how you choose to make that opinion known.
I don't think you understand... I need to say it again
HE SHOULD NOT BE FIRED FOR STATING HIS OPINION
if he had not stated his opinion he wouldn't be fired
so yes he is being fired for stating his opinion and not in the classroom either
my biggest point
NOT IN THE CLASSROOM!
And I do understand what you are saying but I am saying he should not be fired for this.
This is not a private company pretty sure it is a public school and this teacher, as I said,
should be allowed to return because he has supporters and has been a great teacher for 22 years!
See how it goes evaluate the situation based on many factors.
I hope he fights like hell so that a new precedent is in place for others
so we can all keep our freedom of speech
when it comes to our employment and speaking our opinions whatever they maybe.
And this is not a felony so .... :?
you are right it isn't a felony, but you could see the line or reasoning. People are let go all the time for behavior they do on their own time, up to and including a felonies.
So we both have it right, he isn't being disciplined because of his opinion, he is being disciplined because of HOW he CHOSE to express it...hatefully. Like I said it is different to say you are against same sex marriage and to talk about how disgusted you are because of it. Those are different ways to say the same thing, and if you choose the latter you need to be prepared for the consequences up to and including losing your job.
This isn't about freedom of speech. this is violating the terms of your employer. It is worse because he is a public school teacher and not an employee of a private firm, not the other way around.
Also, does this opinion freedom allow him to say that he thinks that same race water fountains make him sick? is race speech protected? should a teacher be allowed to say hateful things about a race of people and then have to go back to work where he teaches those same people?
that’s right! Can’t we all just get together and focus on our real enemies: monogamous gays and stem cells… - Ned Flanders
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
Also, does this opinion freedom allow him to say that he thinks that same race water fountains make him sick? is race speech protected? should a teacher be allowed to say hateful things about a race of people and then have to go back to work where he teaches those same people?
This needs to be changed. He should not lose his job for this and hopefully a good lawyer
will get him through this so he can continue with his successful career of 22 years.
His opinion, however he states it, he should be free to share and learn from
as long as it is not in the classroom directed at his students.
This where the employer or school should have authority.
When he is allowed to return... hopefully,
he and everyone will have learned more understanding.
Everyone is learning... even the haters ... to understand a little better.
We can only hope.
Golden Rule... give the guy another shot and see where he goes....
when you give the golden rule the receipent learns the golden rule....
it rubs off.
This needs to be changed. He should not lose his job for this and hopefully a good lawyer
will get him through this so he can continue with his successful career of 22 years.
His opinion, however he states it, he should be free to share and learn from
as long as it is not in the classroom directed at his students.
This where the employer or school should have authority.
When he is allowed to return... hopefully,
he and everyone will have learned more understanding.
Everyone is learning... even the haters ... to understand a little better.
We can only hope.
Golden Rule... give the guy another shot and see where he goes....
when you give the golden rule the receipent learns the golden rule....
it rubs off.
fair enough, as long as he keeps his discourse civil I don't think he will have a problem. that is why he had a problem here. He delivered it in a hateful, discriminatory way.
that’s right! Can’t we all just get together and focus on our real enemies: monogamous gays and stem cells… - Ned Flanders
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
This needs to be changed. He should not lose his job for this and hopefully a good lawyer
will get him through this so he can continue with his successful career of 22 years.
His opinion, however he states it, he should be free to share and learn from
as long as it is not in the classroom directed at his students.
This where the employer or school should have authority.
When he is allowed to return... hopefully,
he and everyone will have learned more understanding.
Everyone is learning... even the haters ... to understand a little better.
We can only hope.
Golden Rule... give the guy another shot and see where he goes....
when you give the golden rule the receipent learns the golden rule....
it rubs off.
fair enough, as long as he keeps his discourse civil I don't think he will have a problem. that is why he had a problem here. He delivered it in a hateful, discriminatory way.
the problem with that though it is still hate... civil hate still hate
just sneaky hate, a jab or a demeaning comment, is just as hurtful...
something many don't seem to get... spreads the negative ... kills the civil.
I would assume facebook would have rules against this kind of stuff
I'd like to see that over an employer or school unless it was a case of direct slander
Two articles, that could shed some light on this discussion and demonstrates that Buell had no guarantee right to privacy on these social network forums, therefore, his freedom of speech was not at issue and his employer, the State Board of Education had every right to act upon a complaint.
If you've ever posted anything that suggests you might be somebody who likes a racist joke, drinks too much booze or maybe is a bit too fond of guns—these all can be grounds for an employer telling you, "Thanks, but no."
And it's all perfectly legal. The Federal Trade Commission has just given the okay for Social Intelligence Corp. to sell these reports to employers and the file will last for seven long years.
45% Employers use Facebook-Twitter to screen job candidates
Forty-five Percent of Employers Use Social Networking Sites to Research Job Candidates, CaeerBuilder Survey Finds
Career Expert Provides DOs and DON’Ts for Job Seekers on Social Networking
CHICAGO, August 19, 2009 – As social networking grows increasingly pervasive, more employers are utilizing these sites to screen potential employees. Forty-five percent of employers reported in a recent CareerBuilder survey that they use social networking sites to research job candidates, a big jump from 22 percent last year. Another 11 percent plan to start using social networking sites for screening. More than 2,600 hiring managers participated in the survey, which was completed in June 2009.
SIN EATERS--We take the moral excrement we find in this equation and we bury it down deep inside of us so that the rest of our case can stay pure. That is the job. We are morally indefensible and absolutely necessary.
Just to bring this back to a non-hypothetical, real-life instance.
This is a man who said that gay marriage makes him want to "throw up" and called gay unions a "cesspool." And he chose a very public forum to do it.
This man is not a role model, he's just a classless bully who likes to use foul language to describe people he doesn't like. F*ck him. Hope he has to take a job saying "you want fries with that?"
How do you judge as you do the same thing when you say F*ck him? Sounds like foul language and hate to me.
I do not hate gays yet I do not believe the same sex should marry. Does that make me a hater? NO,
and It still creeps me out seeing the same sex kissing and making out. Does that mean I hate them? NO,
Disagreements do not equal hate.....
“We the people are the rightful masters of bothCongress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution.” Abraham Lincoln
Just to bring this back to a non-hypothetical, real-life instance.
This is a man who said that gay marriage makes him want to "throw up" and called gay unions a "cesspool." And he chose a very public forum to do it.
This man is not a role model, he's just a classless bully who likes to use foul language to describe people he doesn't like. F*ck him. Hope he has to take a job saying "you want fries with that?"
How do you judge as you do the same thing when you say F*ck him? Sounds like foul language and hate to me.
I do not hate gays yet I do not believe the same sex should marry. Does that make me a hater? NO,
and It still creeps me out seeing the same sex kissing and making out. Does that mean I hate them? NO,
Disagreements do not equal hate.....
if it is not hate, what do you call it when you want to deny a group of people the same legal rights that you have?
discrimination maybe?
"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
Comments
LET'S SAY THIS ONE LAST TIME. EVERYONE IS ALLOWED THEIR OPINION. BUT EVERYONE NEEDS TO BE AWARE OF THE POSSIBLE CONSEQUENCES OF EXPRESSING SAID OPINION IN A PUBLIC FORUM DEPENDING ON CONTEXT (like a teacher saying it as opposed to a warehouse janitor).
should it be ok if he called a black person a....um....you know.....that N word on Facebook? would he still have his job then? NO. because a teacher is supposed to be a role model for their students, not someone who promotes hate towards others that are different than them.
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
No. Not really. What I said is true... he's probably already been offered another job. He was "teacher of the year" and he's obviously a devout Christian and there are plenty of Christians that don't find his words to be offensive... so that's probably who'd hire a "teacher of the year."
I didn't say "It makes me want to barf that christians would hire him" or "That Private Christian cesspool they call a school" so I'm not sure how anyone reasonable could be offended by that.
If there was an elected board that chose who got to yell "ACTION !!! I DONT CARE WHAT YOU SMELL, STICK YOUR FACE IN THERE!!! NOW!!! AND SMILE!!! LOOK LIKE YOU LIKE IT, DAMMIT!!!" then yeah... I guess I'd have to follow their rules of public behavior. Since I was offered my job by a man who released a DVD called "Uncle Jake's Bareback 101," I'm going to say I'm probably safe from the PTA.
But there's yet another reason I didn't become a teacher like my parents wanted me to... I don't follow the rule other people lay out for what is and isn't acceptable behaviour. So... I wouldn't have lasted long.
He's allowed to express himself. He wasn't arrested and Facebook didn't ban him. But he has a job that has a code of conduct and he broke it. end of story.
Wait... Norman Rockwell painted pictures of gay weddings?
Man, I must have missed that issue of the Saturday Evening Post.
bye Norman Rockwell i ment, that perfect Clean Cut Americana, a little to Nazi like for me, i like variety, trying to show you the value of free speech, pretty sure i failed, but ya gotta try.
this needs to change that a teacher can not give his opinion in public on his own time :crazy:
I wonder what said and who will be considered 'vile' in the future...
out of control in the wrong way
At least in his case, he knows why he was fired. Many people never have a clue.
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
Sounds like you want to throw all Employee Assistance Programs out the door then...I'm fine with it, but then don't come crying to me when a lazy drugged up piece of shit gets fired instead of getting the help their "disease" requires.
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
from what people are saying it is a law, something legal and it is taking away his basic right to freedom of speech.
He didn't say it in the classroom in his place of employment on school time,
didn't force anyone to have the same opinion, he didn't ask students to even listen or read.
Just said his beliefs which we should all have the right to say even if its not a popular opinion.
He did not break a law, he did not change anything about the teacher he has been for 22 years.
He should not lose his job over this.
It is another form of bullying
requiring everyone to accept things they do not feel are right in their heart. To keep quiet.
Let people find their own way in their own time.
He has a right to feel about gay marriage the way he chooses
and should have the right to speak about it
but not teach it while he is a teacher in the classroom, that is not part of the curriculum.
But seeing he is a human being he should have the same privilege as others do ...
to voice their opinion on his free 'human time' when he is Jerry ... not Mr Buell.
That doesn't seems silly to anyone?
1. No one said, or I should say meant to say it was a law, what was meant was that there is legal precedent set that posting things on facebook is grounds for being fired. That is very different from this being a criminal proceeding. Now law shall abridged the freedom of speech. This isn't a law it is a union contract that has a personal conduct policy. He isn't going to prison. You have the right to free speech but that doesn't mean all speech is free from social consequences, just legal ones. I think he should be far away from kids, but I suppose he could find work at a fundamentalist christian school.
2. He did change as a teacher the moment he made intolerant comments on a public forum. His ability to teach will now have been affected. Those who are gay in his classroom will feel that there teacher hates them, those other kids at the school who are gay may feel scared to come out for fear of retribution from the faculty. Replace gay with black or interracial marriage...and you have the same thing. Wouldn't want someone who publicly espouses hatred of interracial marriage teaching kids either.
3. that is where I disagree the most. He should lose his job over this... he didn't just say he is against gay marriage. he used pretty derogatory language in relaying his opinion. It is one thing to say I am against gay marriage...it is a completely different thing to call it a sin and a cesspool. that is hate speech.
4. No one is requiring anyone to accept anything. They are requiring that a teacher not put hate speech out in an open forum. That isn't bullying. He wasn't being forced to perform a service where two men got married...Telling someone they are involved in filthy behavior and making them feel like less than human is bullying.
5. He has the right to feel how he chooses and he has the right to talk about...just like his employer has the right to fire him for making hateful remarks about an entire group of people. He could have said I believe marriage is between a man and a woman, instead he chose a different route...if he had gone with the former I bet we wouldn't be having this conversation.
He is at fault for being callous and careless. when you have homosexual teens killing themselves because of, among other things, fear of not being accepted...you cannot have a teacher who comes across as being disgusted and sickened publicly by something those kids did not choose to be. If you don't like the rules that you need to live by in order to have a certain job, move on.
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
it seems silly that a grown man would use FACEBOOK to promote the way he was sickened and disgusted by two people getting married. Which is sillier?
I am also curious as to what you meant by the first sentence? are you talking about drug rehab?
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
People in manufacturing are found to be high, drunk, etc. all the time WHILE they are working with machinery and around co-workers, etc. That's pretty damn dangerous, no? Have you ever seen someone that injured themselves while high at work? They do some stupid things.
I just think we need to be careful, how far are we willing to go down this slope?
They should have no control over a person like that
and I bet this teacher of 22 years had no clue they did.
In some eyes he changed maybe for those who do not agree with his opinion
but we do not have any proof he has changed from the teacher he was
and was honored and loved for being.
That is not bullying to say you do not agree with the sexual habits of same sex couples
but it is bullying to lose your job or be forced to agree with something you do not.
He was not requiring anyone to agree with him. He was not in the classroom.
If he was then he should be fired... that would be bullying the students
and teaching outside the curriculum.
Homosexual children will run into people who do not accept them.
But this the sad fact of life for each and everyone of us.
There will always be people who judge, don't understand, put others down
those who are different than themselves. Each person has battles to overcome.
People judge others and it seems rampant more than ever.
Because a teacher outside a classroom has an opinion against the conduct of a group of people
this should not be grounds to fire that teacher unless he brought it to the students
in his classroom.
This teacher should resume his job and the school, students, faculty
and parents will decide over a period of time if this has effected his teaching value.
If so then he should be let go with full benefits.
If one hates the haters.... they become a hater.
With understanding comes more understanding ...
it is learned in time with positive interaction.
I agree with you, but there are places he will be able to teach again. I just had an old co-worker at a different job get fired for smoking dope. He only did it at home. While I find it ridiculous that you can still get in trouble for weed, it is the employers right to have rules at work. if you violate them you will be sent packing.
there are many ways to say what he said. he chose a derogatory way.
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
Well then, this is going to open up everyone that attends a rally and how they behave there and what they say...be careful, you are always being watched. And even if it has no effect on your job, you can lose it for expressing your opinions.
What's all those rock stars always saying???? Oh yeah, you have the right to speak your mind so long as you aren't stupid enough to actually try it.
I don't disagree that something needed to happen with this teacher, but firing is a way too far.
HE ISN'T BEING DISCIPLINED FOR HAVING AN OPINION...
HE ISN'T BEING DISCIPLINED FOR HAVING AN OPINION...
HE ISN'T BEING DISCIPLINED FOR HAVING AN OPINION...
Now that that has sunk in, he is being disciplined for the way he chose to express it by his EMPLOYER. and yes, companies can fire you for all sorts of things that you do on your own time. If you commit a felony on your own time you are still able to be fired for it. Happens to NFLers all the time. When you are employed by someone you represent them all the time. Some employers care about their public image and some do not...those that do will have a personal conduct policy in their contracts. IGNORANCE OF THE RULES is no defense to them.
what about the analogy to interracial marriage? do you think he could keep his job if he used very negative language about it?
And you are right, it is not bullying to simply say you do not agree with some behavior...it is when you make people feel like less than human because of that behavior. And no one forced him to accept it. He isn't being punished for having an opinion
As far as the part in bold above. It did change his ability to teach. It outed an intolerant person who has contact with gay kids or friends of gay kids guaranteed. his ability to teach those will now be forever changed. It is okay to disagree, it is okay to have an opinion, you just should be prepared for the consequences of how you choose to make that opinion known.
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
I get your point and I do agree with it to some degree.
The thing is, people get fired, let go, reorganized, whatever for a lot of silly reasons. That's not a defense of this situation, but just a comment on work in general. People are not entitled to jobs. They are at the mercy of their employers unless they are self-employed.....especially these days.
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
Everything you do has a reaction. Both positive and negative. People can be free to be filled with all the hate they want, but when you express your opinions you should do it in a responsible and respectful manner. If he had done that I bet we wouldn't even be talking about this...If you disagree with gay marriage simply say that...it isn't wrong to have an opinion, trust me, if the union didn't agree with this punishment it wouldn't be happening. unions are very strong and without support from them disciplining of employees is extremely difficult. I run into it monthly.
whether they like it or not, teachers are held to a higher standard of behavior in public than a lot of other types of workers
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
Many people have been fired for "words on a computer screen." That's nothing new. It's been decided in countless cases that a posting on the internet is the same as yelling through a bullhorn or taking out a full-page ad in a newspaper. MANY people have been fired for Facebook and Twitter postings.
He was not fired for "having an opinion" or for "thinking things."
And yes... I'm sure if he'd used such foul language in an anti-Christian post, he'd have been fired for that, too.
HE SHOULD NOT BE FIRED FOR STATING HIS OPINION
if he had not stated his opinion he wouldn't be fired
so yes he is being fired for stating his opinion and not in the classroom either
my biggest point
NOT IN THE CLASSROOM!
And I do understand what you are saying but I am saying he should not be fired for this.
This is not a private company pretty sure it is a public school and this teacher, as I said,
should be allowed to return because he has supporters and has been a great teacher for 22 years!
See how it goes evaluate the situation based on many factors.
I hope he fights like hell so that a new precedent is in place for others
so we can all keep our freedom of speech
when it comes to our employment and speaking our opinions whatever they maybe.
And this is not a felony so .... :?
Um... he still has his "Freedom of speech." He wasn't arrested.
OK.. let's break this down.
I have an opinion on the amount of brain cells that you have. But until I say something about it... I won't get banned from posting here at AMT.
I can still think what I think about you... but I'm not allowed to SAY it here. Now, if I WAS to say it... it's still my right to say it and I won't get arrested but I probably WILL get a reprimand for posting it on a public forum.
Saying "I think my boss if a moron and I hate his guts" is not a felony. Why don't you go post that on Twitter and Facebook. Come back and tell us what happens.
I get your point though with the few brain cells I have left
quite proud of the few I have left too
but even more so of my heart
But I get your need to put someone down kind of like the haters I mentioned before,
careful that makes you no better.
He didn't say a damn thing about his boss though so your example doesn't work.
Getting banned in a public forum is not like losing your livelihood either.
He should lose his job if he said it in the classroom
He should not lose his job for stating a personal opinion not in the classroom IMO.
Perhaps a lawyer will help him work that out. I hope so.
you are right it isn't a felony, but you could see the line or reasoning. People are let go all the time for behavior they do on their own time, up to and including a felonies.
So we both have it right, he isn't being disciplined because of his opinion, he is being disciplined because of HOW he CHOSE to express it...hatefully. Like I said it is different to say you are against same sex marriage and to talk about how disgusted you are because of it. Those are different ways to say the same thing, and if you choose the latter you need to be prepared for the consequences up to and including losing your job.
This isn't about freedom of speech. this is violating the terms of your employer. It is worse because he is a public school teacher and not an employee of a private firm, not the other way around.
Also, does this opinion freedom allow him to say that he thinks that same race water fountains make him sick? is race speech protected? should a teacher be allowed to say hateful things about a race of people and then have to go back to work where he teaches those same people?
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
He would be ostracized if he did.
This needs to be changed. He should not lose his job for this and hopefully a good lawyer
will get him through this so he can continue with his successful career of 22 years.
His opinion, however he states it, he should be free to share and learn from
as long as it is not in the classroom directed at his students.
This where the employer or school should have authority.
When he is allowed to return... hopefully,
he and everyone will have learned more understanding.
Everyone is learning... even the haters ... to understand a little better.
We can only hope.
Golden Rule... give the guy another shot and see where he goes....
when you give the golden rule the receipent learns the golden rule....
it rubs off.
fair enough, as long as he keeps his discourse civil I don't think he will have a problem. that is why he had a problem here. He delivered it in a hateful, discriminatory way.
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
just sneaky hate, a jab or a demeaning comment, is just as hurtful...
something many don't seem to get... spreads the negative ... kills the civil.
I would assume facebook would have rules against this kind of stuff
I'd like to see that over an employer or school unless it was a case of direct slander
Background Checks Now Include Twitter, Facebook
By ALAN FARNHAM
June 24, 2011
http://abcnews.go.com/Business/job-twee ... d=13908874
If you've ever posted anything that suggests you might be somebody who likes a racist joke, drinks too much booze or maybe is a bit too fond of guns—these all can be grounds for an employer telling you, "Thanks, but no."
And it's all perfectly legal. The Federal Trade Commission has just given the okay for Social Intelligence Corp. to sell these reports to employers and the file will last for seven long years.
45% Employers use Facebook-Twitter to screen job candidates
http://oregonbusinessreport.com/2009/08 ... andidates/
August 24, 2009
Forty-five Percent of Employers Use Social Networking Sites to Research Job Candidates, CaeerBuilder Survey Finds
Career Expert Provides DOs and DON’Ts for Job Seekers on Social Networking
CHICAGO, August 19, 2009 – As social networking grows increasingly pervasive, more employers are utilizing these sites to screen potential employees. Forty-five percent of employers reported in a recent CareerBuilder survey that they use social networking sites to research job candidates, a big jump from 22 percent last year. Another 11 percent plan to start using social networking sites for screening. More than 2,600 hiring managers participated in the survey, which was completed in June 2009.
How do you judge as you do the same thing when you say F*ck him? Sounds like foul language and hate to me.
I do not hate gays yet I do not believe the same sex should marry. Does that make me a hater? NO,
and It still creeps me out seeing the same sex kissing and making out. Does that mean I hate them? NO,
Disagreements do not equal hate.....
discrimination maybe?
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."