Man to be executed for "revenge killings" for 9/11 attacks

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  • JonnyPistachio
    JonnyPistachio Florida Posts: 10,219
    Go Beavers wrote:
    It's kind of like telling people you want your organs donated!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aclS1pGHp8o

    :D
    Pick up my debut novel here on amazon: Jonny Bails Floatin (in paperback) (also available on Kindle for $2.99)
  • JonnyPistachio
    JonnyPistachio Florida Posts: 10,219
    Go Beavers wrote:
    I didn't notice any quotes from the 2 dead people.

    But you do see a lot of pro-death penalty people act as though they are speaking for the dead and that the victim would want the person dead in the name of justice.

    I wasn't saying I was for or against. Just see anti-folks quoting the living person with no references from the dead (impossible I know). So, the point had to be made.

    I do find it hard to believe that there are no circumstances when folks think the death penalty is appropriate (so, I guess that makes me on the pro side). Is this one of them? I guess that's a debate (not the one JonnyPistachio wanted to start in this thread, and I respect that. I wasn't either). I just don't see how folks can be completely against it.

    As Jonny points out, the living victim should be praised. He is clearly a man of high honor. But, that doesn't mean he (or the juror) is correct in this case, either. Quite frankly, if he was the only victim, this wouldn't have been a death penalty case. So, while he should have more to say about it than you or I, the dead and the ones the killer would have continued killing (we don't know who they are - so the "system" steps in their place) had he not been stopped do.

    And the old stop the violence is a silly argument against DP anyway. It does stop. As soon as this guy is dead. (again, not advocating his or anyone else's death. Just making the point).

    I do not think the 'stop the violence' argument is necessarily against the DP, but a moral stance. I dont care what the pro-DP people think of that one...

    We can debate the DP, it just wasnt my original intention..
    You do make very good questions Edson.. I used to be pro-DP. I do see cases where I think its fine. This guy was caught on video (i think).. It makes it easier to justify. But my main concern is that is there was ONE man executed who was innocent, then the system is flawed and we should not do it. Its also more expensive and not a deterrence.
    Pick up my debut novel here on amazon: Jonny Bails Floatin (in paperback) (also available on Kindle for $2.99)
  • polaris_x
    polaris_x Posts: 13,559
    the death penalty only serves the appetite for revenge ... nothing more ... sure, the perpetrator will not be able to kill anyone else but it does not act as a deterrent to would be murderers ... life in prison would in most situations accomplish the same thing ...

    again - one has to ask themselves why in such a land of opportunities and freedoms does the US lead the developed countries in violent crime statistics by a landslide? ...
  • Jason P
    Jason P Posts: 19,306
    Go Beavers wrote:
    Jason P wrote:
    I guess I should go on record in case I'm murdered: Avenge me!

    ;)

    Never a bad idea, as I have gone on record for the opposite. It's kind of like telling people you want your organs donated!
    We could have "smilies" on our license!

    :evil: Avenge me!

    :angel: I forgive
    Be Excellent To Each Other
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  • Smellyman
    Smellyman Asia Posts: 4,528
    CROJAM95 wrote:
    What I took from this story was

    This dude went after what he envisioned in his mind to be someone responsible for terrorism, or similar to the hijackers

    Just looking for some brown, Muslim looking folks

    Lotta people on the right still think Saddam Hussein and Iraq were responsible for 911

    This is a microcosm of how dumb we have become as a society.

    We think just because one is Muslim, they must sympathize with terrorists.... Not true

    And that all country's in the mideast are state sponsors of terrorism.... Not true

    Knee jerk reaction from some dumb, ignorant idiot from Texas

    Just like when a dumb, ignorant Texan started a war for profit in 2003.

    The irony

    Yup. Another Texan should be there. One who believes killing a Million people was the "right" thing to do.
  • Jason P
    Jason P Posts: 19,306
    polaris_x wrote:
    again - one has to ask themselves why in such a land of opportunities and freedoms does the US lead the developed countries in violent crime statistics by a landslide? ...
    Easy. In 1845, Florida became a state.

    8-)
    Be Excellent To Each Other
    Party On, Dudes!
  • polaris_x
    polaris_x Posts: 13,559
    Jason P wrote:
    polaris_x wrote:
    again - one has to ask themselves why in such a land of opportunities and freedoms does the US lead the developed countries in violent crime statistics by a landslide? ...
    Easy. In 1845, Florida became a state.

    8-)

    :lol::lol:
  • gimmesometruth27
    gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 24,122
    candle_flame_2.jpg
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    "In order to live in a better and peaceful world, we need to break the cycle of hate and violence. I believe forgiveness is the best policy, which helps to break this cycle," he said, calling himself a victim of a hate crime. "I forgave Mark Stroman many years ago. I believe he was ignorant and not capable of distinguishing between right and wrong. Otherwise he wouldn't have done what he did."

    He said last week he would like to meet Stroman on death row before it's too late.

    "His attorney gave him the message that one of your victims is running this campaign to save your life," he said. "He was reduced to tears. He couldn't believe one of his victims would come forward and try to save his life."


    take note folks.

    :clap:
  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    I wasn't saying I was for or against. Just see anti-folks quoting the living person with no references from the dead (impossible I know). So, the point had to be made.

    I do find it hard to believe that there are no circumstances when folks think the death penalty is appropriate (so, I guess that makes me on the pro side). Is this one of them? I guess that's a debate (not the one JonnyPistachio wanted to start in this thread, and I respect that. I wasn't either). I just don't see how folks can be completely against it.

    As Jonny points out, the living victim should be praised. He is clearly a man of high honor. But, that doesn't mean he (or the juror) is correct in this case, either. Quite frankly, if he was the only victim, this wouldn't have been a death penalty case. So, while he should have more to say about it than you or I, the dead and the ones the killer would have continued killing (we don't know who they are - so the "system" steps in their place) had he not been stopped do.

    And the old stop the violence is a silly argument against DP anyway. It does stop. As soon as this guy is dead. (again, not advocating his or anyone else's death. Just making the point).

    Or he could simply be given life in prison, which is also the cheaper option.

    How does that fit into your scheme of things?
  • catefrances
    catefrances Posts: 29,003
    Jason P wrote:
    The only reason he claims he has changed is because he is at death's doorstep. The article states he didn't show remorse a year after the murders...

    sometimes it takes time to realise what weve done.

    Jason P wrote:
    I'm not pro-death penalty, but I'm not against it. Be it human or animal, if it demonstrates unnatural behavior and poses a threat to society, I don't care if it's locked in a hole, dropped off on dinosaur island, or put down. Just as long as the element is removed from our society, I'll leave it up to each state to determine the method.

    how is killing unnatural behaviour for a human? because we have laws against it? or because you think we as superior beings should be above it?
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  • EdsonNascimento
    EdsonNascimento Posts: 5,531
    Byrnzie wrote:
    I wasn't saying I was for or against. Just see anti-folks quoting the living person with no references from the dead (impossible I know). So, the point had to be made.

    I do find it hard to believe that there are no circumstances when folks think the death penalty is appropriate (so, I guess that makes me on the pro side). Is this one of them? I guess that's a debate (not the one JonnyPistachio wanted to start in this thread, and I respect that. I wasn't either). I just don't see how folks can be completely against it.

    As Jonny points out, the living victim should be praised. He is clearly a man of high honor. But, that doesn't mean he (or the juror) is correct in this case, either. Quite frankly, if he was the only victim, this wouldn't have been a death penalty case. So, while he should have more to say about it than you or I, the dead and the ones the killer would have continued killing (we don't know who they are - so the "system" steps in their place) had he not been stopped do.

    And the old stop the violence is a silly argument against DP anyway. It does stop. As soon as this guy is dead. (again, not advocating his or anyone else's death. Just making the point).

    Or he could simply be given life in prison, which is also the cheaper option.

    How does that fit into your scheme of things?

    I'm fine with that, too.
    Sorry. The world doesn't work the way you tell it to.
  • gimmesometruth27
    gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 24,122
    Byrnzie wrote:
    I wasn't saying I was for or against. Just see anti-folks quoting the living person with no references from the dead (impossible I know). So, the point had to be made.

    I do find it hard to believe that there are no circumstances when folks think the death penalty is appropriate (so, I guess that makes me on the pro side). Is this one of them? I guess that's a debate (not the one JonnyPistachio wanted to start in this thread, and I respect that. I wasn't either). I just don't see how folks can be completely against it.

    As Jonny points out, the living victim should be praised. He is clearly a man of high honor. But, that doesn't mean he (or the juror) is correct in this case, either. Quite frankly, if he was the only victim, this wouldn't have been a death penalty case. So, while he should have more to say about it than you or I, the dead and the ones the killer would have continued killing (we don't know who they are - so the "system" steps in their place) had he not been stopped do.

    And the old stop the violence is a silly argument against DP anyway. It does stop. As soon as this guy is dead. (again, not advocating his or anyone else's death. Just making the point).

    Or he could simply be given life in prison, which is also the cheaper option.

    How does that fit into your scheme of things?

    I'm fine with that, too.

    are you a religious person?
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • EdsonNascimento
    EdsonNascimento Posts: 5,531
    Byrnzie wrote:
    Or he could simply be given life in prison, which is also the cheaper option.

    How does that fit into your scheme of things?

    I'm fine with that, too.
    are you a religious person?

    Not really. Why?
    Sorry. The world doesn't work the way you tell it to.
  • gimmesometruth27
    gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 24,122
    Not really. Why?
    i am just asking. most people who favor the dp are people who consider themselves christian. especially those in the state of texas.

    i was going to ask how you would apply the 5th commandment. does it apply to individuals only, or does it apply to states and governments as well? and why would it apply to one over the other instead of both?
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • I didn't notice any quotes from the 2 dead people.

    I'm pretty sure if someone killed me I wouldn't want them killed in my name. I'd want them rotting in prison in my name, but not killed.
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  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    Another pointless act of barbarism carried out by the U.S.A:

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/ju ... nge-killer

    Texas executes 9/11 'revenge' killer

    Mark Stroman shot dead two convenience store workers he believed to be Arab in Dallas shooting spree in 2001



    Associated Press
    guardian.co.uk, Thursday 21 July 2011


    A man who embarked on a shooting spree in what he claimed was retaliation for 9/11 has been executed at a prison in Texas.

    The lone survivor of Mark Stroman's attack on convenience store workers in late 2001, Rais Bhuiyan, originally from Bangladesh, unsuccessfully sued to stop the execution, saying his religious beliefs as a Muslim required him to forgive the man. The courts denied his request.

    Stroman, 41, had said hate in the world needed to end and asked for God's grace shortly before the fatal drugs began flowing into his arms. He was pronounced dead less than an hour after his final court appeal was rejected.

    Stroman claimed the shooting spree that killed two men and injured a third targeted people from the Middle East, though all three victims were from south Asia. It was the death of 49-year-old Vasudev Patel, from India, that put Stroman on death row. He was also charged but not tried in the shooting death of Waqar Hasan, 46, a Pakistani immigrant who moved to Dallas in 2001 to open a convenience store.

    Stroman's execution was the eighth this year in Texas. At least eight other inmates have execution dates in the coming weeks.

    From inside the death chamber, Stroman looked at five friends watching through a window and told them he loved them.

    "Even though I lay on this gurney, seconds away from my death, I am at total peace," he said. He called himself "still a proud American, Texas loud, Texas proud".

    "God bless America. God bless everyone," he added, then turned his head to the warden and said: "Let's do this damn thing."

    Feeling the drugs beginning to take effect, he said, he began a countdown. "One, two," he said, slightly gasping. "There it goes."

    Eleven minutes later, he was dead.

    None of Patel's relatives attended the execution, and instead selected a police officer to represent them.

    The execution was delayed for almost three hours before the Texas court of criminal appeals barred a state judge in Austin from considering Bhuiyan's lawsuit to stop the execution. The US supreme court had rejected appeals earlier in the day.

    Bhuiyan had asked the courts to halt Stroman's execution and said he wanted to spend time with the inmate to learn more about why the shootings occurred. He lost sight in one of his eyes when Stroman shot him in the face.

    "Killing him is not the solution," Bhuiyan said. "He's learning from his mistake. If he's given a chance, he's able to reach out to others and spread that message to others."

    A federal district judge in Austin rejected the lawsuit and Bhuiyan's request for an injunction.


    Stroman was free on bond for a gun possession arrest at the time of the attack. He had previous convictions for burglary, robbery, theft and credit card abuse, served at least two prison terms and was paroled twice. His juvenile record showed he was involved in an armed robbery at the age of 12.

    When police arrested him the day Patel was killed, they found the .44-calibre handgun used in the shooting. Stroman confessed, and court documents show he told authorities he belonged to the Aryan Brotherhood, a white supremacist prison gang. Prosecutors also said he told another jail inmate about the shootings and how automatic weapons police found in his car were intended for a planned attack at a shopping mall.

    Stroman more recently denied the white supremacist description. He also had avoided trouble in prison in recent years, said a Texas department of criminal justice spokeswoman.

    Stroman blamed the shootings on the loss of a sister in the collapse of one of the World Trade Centre towers – although prosecutors said in court documents that there was no firm evidence she ever existed.

    "I wanted those Arabs to feel the same sense of vulnerability and uncertainty on American soil much like the mindset of chaos and bedlam that they were already accustomed to in their home country," he said on a website devoted to his case.

    But he also said he'd made a "terrible mistake out of love, grief and anger" and had destroyed his victims' families "out of pure anger and stupidity".

    "I'm not the monster the media portrays me," he said last week from death row.

    Stroman was also charged but not tried in the shooting death of Waqar Hasan. Hasan was killed four days after the terrorists struck. The attack on Bhuiyan came a week later.
  • know1
    know1 Posts: 6,801
    Isn't this what our government did when we invaded Iraq?
    The only people we should try to get even with...
    ...are those who've helped us.

    Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
  • Blockhead
    Blockhead Posts: 1,538
    polaris_x wrote:
    the US is the leader in violent crime rates amongst developed countries ... there is a reason for that ... violence begets violence ...

    killing mark stroman will not make the world a better place nor bring back the lives of those that perished from his gun ... mlk jr. knew this ... ghandi knew this ...
    :roll: Please cite stats to defend this statement.
    Why do you just make things up?
  • Blockhead
    Blockhead Posts: 1,538
    polaris_x wrote:
    the death penalty only serves the appetite for revenge ... nothing more ... sure, the perpetrator will not be able to kill anyone else but it does not act as a deterrent to would be murderers ... life in prison would in most situations accomplish the same thing ...

    again - one has to ask themselves why in such a land of opportunities and freedoms does the US lead the developed countries in violent crime statistics by a landslide? ...
    Again,
    why do you keep posting this?