60s culture blamed for Catholic Church Sex Abuse

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  • Who Princess
    Who Princess out here in the fields Posts: 7,305
    You're not going to get smashed up by me. I'm also angry about how the Church has handled this. The whole response has been to circle the wagons and protect the abusers. I find that very offensive. I think it's cruel the way the victims have been blamed. What's incredible to me is how the clergy don't seem to have learned anything about why this tactic is wrong and how painful it is for those who have been abused. It depresses me.

    I sometimes think that when it comes to the clergy, this is an institution run by old men for the benefit of old men. Like some kind of exclusive club.

    And when I talked about the reasons that pedophiles may go into the priesthood, I was never trying to excuse their actions. Only to give some insight into why there may be so many pedophile priests. It seems to me that men who enter the priesthood haven't been screened well, if at all. They also haven't had to experience many repurcussions. Maybe the worst of it is that I don't see much hope that the Church is going to change.
    "The stars are all connected to the brain."
  • ShimmyMommy
    ShimmyMommy Posts: 7,505
    whoprincess, I completely agree with you. I feel the same. It should definitely be handled differently and allowing pedophiles to hide behind the church is not a good way.

    I also agree that it the clergy has become something of exclusive club...they protect only their own, and not a soul outside their own. It's all about image...not about the teachings anymore. If it was about teachings they would not have allowed any of this to get this far.

    And when I said reasons/excuses, I was not referring directly to you. Your comment simply brought to mind another point. Abusers make all kinds of excuses to justify/defend what they did. They never take genuine responsibility for their crimes. It's how they permit themselves to continue the cycle of violence.

    All of this is a shame, really.

    It's time to show the love and light we are supposed to have for each other.
    Lots of love, light and hugs to you all!
  • Jeanwah
    Jeanwah Posts: 6,361
    I wish I could find the way Maher put it exactly, and I wonder if it's even true about the "10 years and up not being considered pediphilia/ rape", but I can't find it online in a quick search. It was his episode from last Friday (5/20).
  • Who Princess
    Who Princess out here in the fields Posts: 7,305
    Jeanwah wrote:
    I wish I could find the way Maher put it exactly, and I wonder if it's even true about the "10 years and up not being considered pediphilia/ rape", but I can't find it online in a quick search. It was his episode from last Friday (5/20).
    I read that too, in a NY Times article about the report. Unfortunately I can't do a search for it. I've read my maximum number of free articles for the month.
    "The stars are all connected to the brain."
  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    I wonder what oscar Wilde would have to say about this? :think:
  • puremagic
    puremagic Posts: 1,906
    Here's the 152 page study of [don't blame us, blame society – we were just doing what everyone else was doing] Blame it on Free Love.
    http://www.usccb.org/mr/causes-and-cont ... 0-2010.pdf

    Funny how it appears these priests were able to resist the Temptation of drugs and the whole Vietnam war during the 1960s and1970s, but child rape,hell everyone was doing it – REALLY!!!

    The fact that these MEN under the protection of priesthood and the Vatican [an independent country] continuously commit these crimes around the world, is truly a crime against humanity.

    Would people be so forgiving, so understanding if it this repeated practice was being perpetuated by the leaders of any other country in the name of Judaism and Islam? It;s not about the religion it's about the sickos who should be held accountable like any other rapist and any other organization or country that condones the rape and abuse of children and protect rapists against the enforcement of criminal laws of any country.
    SIN EATERS--We take the moral excrement we find in this equation and we bury it down deep inside of us so that the rest of our case can stay pure. That is the job. We are morally indefensible and absolutely necessary.
  • davidtrios
    davidtrios Posts: 9,732
    I found a news story today about a Catholic Priest stealing 100K from his church to support his gambling addiction. I think this is the first victimless crime from the Church I've ever read about. :?

    http://www.suntimes.com/5864426-417/pri ... selle.html
  • ShimmyMommy
    ShimmyMommy Posts: 7,505
    Davidtrios wrote:
    I found a news story today about a Catholic Priest stealing 100K from his church to support his gambling addiction. I think this is the first victimless crime from the Church I've ever read about. :?

    http://www.suntimes.com/5864426-417/pri ... selle.html

    there are so many things wrong in this whole world, not just with the church... :(
    Lots of love, light and hugs to you all!
  • loveontwolegs
    loveontwolegs Posts: 501
    Davidtrios wrote:
    I found a news story today about a Catholic Priest stealing 100K from his church to support his gambling addiction. I think this is the first victimless crime from the Church I've ever read about. :?

    http://www.suntimes.com/5864426-417/pri ... selle.html

    Gambling addiction is NOT a victimless crime.
  • polaris_x
    polaris_x Posts: 13,559
    i just had a lunch conversation with a colleague who is catholic and he basically said the sex scandals and gay marriage stuff is not what he subscribes to as a catholic ... my point is this: if the catholic church is currently known for its stance against gay marriage and their unwillingness to end the suffering of abuse and right the wrongs of the past - why would you want to be part of that ... many other religions teach similar principles as the catholic church as it relates to treatment of people, etc ... you don't need to be part of a religion to live by those values ...

    the catholic church is corrupt and are doing too much to inflict suffering and misery to people ... if it were me - i would have jumped ship long ago ...
  • ShimmyMommy
    ShimmyMommy Posts: 7,505
    polaris_x wrote:
    you don't need to be part of a religion to live by those values ...

    My point exactly zarocat :D
    Lots of love, light and hugs to you all!
  • Jason P
    Jason P Posts: 19,545
    polaris_x wrote:
    i just had a lunch conversation with a colleague who is catholic and he basically said the sex scandals and gay marriage stuff is not what he subscribes to as a catholic ... my point is this: if the catholic church is currently known for its stance against gay marriage and their unwillingness to end the suffering of abuse and right the wrongs of the past - why would you want to be part of that ... many other religions teach similar principles as the catholic church as it relates to treatment of people, etc ... you don't need to be part of a religion to live by those values ...

    the catholic church is corrupt and are doing too much to inflict suffering and misery to people ... if it were me - i would have jumped ship long ago ...
    I think most churches are against gay marriage. I've never heard it preached as a central theme in Catholic services though.
    Be Excellent To Each Other
    Party On, Dudes!
  • polaris_x
    polaris_x Posts: 13,559
    Jason P wrote:
    polaris_x wrote:
    i just had a lunch conversation with a colleague who is catholic and he basically said the sex scandals and gay marriage stuff is not what he subscribes to as a catholic ... my point is this: if the catholic church is currently known for its stance against gay marriage and their unwillingness to end the suffering of abuse and right the wrongs of the past - why would you want to be part of that ... many other religions teach similar principles as the catholic church as it relates to treatment of people, etc ... you don't need to be part of a religion to live by those values ...

    the catholic church is corrupt and are doing too much to inflict suffering and misery to people ... if it were me - i would have jumped ship long ago ...
    I think most churches are against gay marriage. I've never heard it preached as a central theme in Catholic services though.

    uhhh ... other churches allow priests to marry, women priests, gay priests ...

    http://www.americancatholic.org/News/Ho ... efault.asp
  • davidtrios
    davidtrios Posts: 9,732
    loveontwolegs wrote:
    Davidtrios wrote:
    I found a news story today about a Catholic Priest stealing 100K from his church to support his gambling addiction. I think this is the first victimless crime from the Church I've ever read about. :?

    http://www.suntimes.com/5864426-417/pri ... selle.html

    Gambling addiction is NOT a victimless crime.

    it's on the list love

    http://wiki.freetalklive.com/List_of_victimless_crimes
  • butterjam
    butterjam Posts: 221
    polaris_x wrote:

    the catholic church is corrupt and are doing too much to inflict suffering and misery to people ... if it were me - i would have jumped ship long ago ...

    Don't let the actions of a handful, even though they might be higher ups in the church, distort what you think about the catholic church. As I've said before, the most powerful part of the church is its people. I've been a catholic my whole life, and have experienced so many good things that the people of my church have done, mainly helping those in need.

    I've also had a friend in the Peace Corps who worked directly with Catholic Aids Action in Namibia to help women and children with AIDS. Despite what most like to think, they were not there to convert the non-believers. They helped anyone who needed it. They even went against a lot of the church's teachings, condoms, pre-marital sex, etc.

    I think it is similar to hate Americans because of all the terrible things our leadership has done. Its tough to beat this image since most of what the news reports are the bad things, and not the good things that churches and the US has done.
  • Jason P
    Jason P Posts: 19,545
    polaris_x wrote:

    uhhh ... other churches allow priests to marry, women priests, gay priests ...

    http://www.americancatholic.org/News/Ho ... efault.asp
    I believe that the priests and nuns are married (or in a relationship) with God / Jesus. In the end, I think it is an outdated practice and the primary reason where you get into problems with pedophiles. The Catholic church is in a dire need of priest and if they don't allow priest to marry, it's only going to get worst. All the dioceses around me have priests that were imported from India and they usually split time between several congregations due to lack of manpower.

    Hell, the church just final allowed girls to be alter boys (or "person"). The wheels move slow.

    As noted, I'm sure the official stand of the church is against gay marriage, but I've never seen it preached against or organized against ever. Now abortion is another story ....
    Be Excellent To Each Other
    Party On, Dudes!
  • polaris_x
    polaris_x Posts: 13,559
    Jason P wrote:
    I believe that the priests and nuns are married (or in a relationship) with God / Jesus. In the end, I think it is an outdated practice and the primary reason where you get into problems with pedophiles. The Catholic church is in a dire need of priest and if they don't allow priest to marry, it's only going to get worst. All the dioceses around me have priests that were imported from India and they usually split time between several congregations due to lack of manpower.

    Hell, the church just final allowed girls to be alter boys (or "person"). The wheels move slow.

    As noted, I'm sure the official stand of the church is against gay marriage, but I've never seen it preached against or organized against ever. Now abortion is another story ....

    from the wikipedia site on same sex marriage ...

    Proponents of same-sex marriage such as Freedom to Marry and Garden State Equality use the term marriage equality[37][38] to stress that they seek equality as opposed to special rights. Opponents of same-sex marriage such as The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints,[39] the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops,[40] and the Southern Baptist Convention[41] use the term traditional marriage to mean marriages between one man and one woman.[citation needed] Maggie Gallagher argues that equating same-sex and opposite-sex marriages changes the meaning of marriage and its traditions.[42]
  • polaris_x
    polaris_x Posts: 13,559
    311jj wrote:
    Don't let the actions of a handful, even though they might be higher ups in the church, distort what you think about the catholic church. As I've said before, the most powerful part of the church is its people. I've been a catholic my whole life, and have experienced so many good things that the people of my church have done, mainly helping those in need.

    I've also had a friend in the Peace Corps who worked directly with Catholic Aids Action in Namibia to help women and children with AIDS. Despite what most like to think, they were not there to convert the non-believers. They helped anyone who needed it. They even went against a lot of the church's teachings, condoms, pre-marital sex, etc.

    I think it is similar to hate Americans because of all the terrible things our leadership has done. Its tough to beat this image since most of what the news reports are the bad things, and not the good things that churches and the US has done.

    firstly ... i need to say that i'm not against catholics in general ... my point is this tho ... this is not a situation where there are some rogue catholics that are giving everyone else a bad name ... the leadership of the catholic church is corrupt and are doing a lot of bad things ...

    what you have witnessed is not the act of catholicism - it is the act of good people doing good things ... something that is not confined to catholics only ... you even said some people have gone against the church ... so, what i am saying is you don't need to be part of an entity that is blatantly corrupt and seeks to cause suffering when you can be who you want and do what you want based on a value system that is predominant in most religions and cultures ...
  • Who Princess
    Who Princess out here in the fields Posts: 7,305
    polaris_x wrote:
    what you have witnessed is not the act of catholicism - it is the act of good people doing good things ... something that is not confined to catholics only ... you even said some people have gone against the church ... so, what i am saying is you don't need to be part of an entity that is blatantly corrupt and seeks to cause suffering when you can be who you want and do what you want based on a value system that is predominant in most religions and cultures ...
    I can see the logic in your argument but I also wonder if the Church will ever change if all the good people leave.
    "The stars are all connected to the brain."
  • polaris_x
    polaris_x Posts: 13,559
    whoprincess wrote:
    I can see the logic in your argument but I also wonder if the Church will ever change if all the good people leave.

    my response to that is: who cares!? ... the catholic church is rooted in fear ... it's outdated and it's purpose is no longer valid ...

    any organization that has systematically tried to cover up their wrong doings is an organization without integrity ... without integrity, there is no truth or respect ...
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