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60s culture blamed for Catholic Church Sex Abuse

JeanwahJeanwah Posts: 6,363
edited November 2011 in A Moving Train
A study commissioned by the nation's Roman Catholic Bishops suggests that homosexuality and celibacy aren't at fault for priest sex abuse but the norms of the 1960's might be to blame.

http://nocureforthat.org/?p=865

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vzrUL8RpM4o

I couldn't find the actual study, sorry.
Post edited by Unknown User on
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Comments

  • KatKat Posts: 4,907
    Like it never happened anywhere ever until 1960.

    (read my mind)
    my mind: nice try CathChurch, not buying what you want to sell there.

    x
    Falling down,...not staying down
  • LizardLizard So Cal Posts: 12,091
    Kat wrote:
    Like it never happened anywhere ever until 1960.

    (read my mind)
    my mind: nice try CathChurch, not buying what you want to sell there.

    x

    No kidding!! My 1st thoughts when I heard this.
    So I'll just lie down and wait for the dream
    Where I'm not ugly and you're lookin' at me
  • polaris_xpolaris_x Posts: 13,559
    sweet! ... i just knew there had to be a good reason ... now, i can go and continue to make lives miserable for others without having to deal with that messy bit!
  • SatansFutonSatansFuton Posts: 5,399
    Well I think the earliest case in the U.S. (earliest reported) is 1950, and there are many cases that occurred before all the "free love" started. In other countries there are cases from well before the 50's. I think it's time for another study.
    "See a broad to get dat booty yak 'em, leg 'er down, a smack 'em yak 'em!"
  • ShimmyMommyShimmyMommy Posts: 7,505
    Are they kidding? Seriously? :roll: Talk about not taking responsibility for actions and enabling it to continue...Hey Catholic Church, it's time you started practicing what you preach.
    Lots of love, light and hugs to you all!
  • Cree NationsCree Nations Posts: 2,247
    laughable......all the abuse First Nations in Canada and America suffered at the hands of those bastards doesnt count I guess
    >>>>
    >
    ...a lover and a fighter.
    "I'm at least half a bum" Rocky Balboa

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  • ShimmyMommyShimmyMommy Posts: 7,505
    Cree Nations wrote:
    laughable......all the abuse First Nations in Canada and America suffered at the hands of those bastards doesnt count I guess

    exactly my point, cree...ridiculous farce...
    Lots of love, light and hugs to you all!
  • BinauralJamBinauralJam Posts: 14,158
    people need to have sex, it's really just that simple, if they started letting preist get married it would go a long way to fixing this.
  • SatansFutonSatansFuton Posts: 5,399
    BinauralJam wrote:
    people need to have sex, it's really just that simple, if they started letting preist get married it would go a long way to fixing this.

    I don't know dude. Why aren't they sneaking around having sex with adult women? Or adult men? What about them not being married means that they have to have sex with children? Is there some loophole in the Bible that I don't know about that allows for priests to justify having sex with children while still thinking it is bad for them to sleep with an adult? I'm not being sarcastic, I just really haven't read the Bible and I'm not clear on some of these things.

    I think there is a larger problem than marriage, although I'm all for priests getting married. I just think they would still be pedophiles whether or not they were married. The "people need to have sex" part I agree with, but these guys aren't just going out and having sex against the rules of the church, they're molesting kids.
    "See a broad to get dat booty yak 'em, leg 'er down, a smack 'em yak 'em!"
  • butterjambutterjam Posts: 215
    This is just sad and disappointing. I've been a Catholic my whole life and cannot understand why the church is passing the buck on this one. Its called responsibility. There's a few things in the Bible about it.

    I'm a Catholic because of all of the good things it does and the message of Christ to love thy neighbor. I can understand from an outsider's perspective that all they see and hear are the bad things the Church does and so it can be seen as an evil organization.

    But the most powerful element of the Church has been and always will be its people. It is up to us to hold our Church and its leaders responsible.
  • ShimmyMommyShimmyMommy Posts: 7,505
    SatansFuton wrote:
    I don't know dude. Why aren't they sneaking around having sex with adult women? Or adult men? What about them not being married means that they have to have sex with children? Is there some loophole in the Bible that I don't know about that allows for priests to justify having sex with children while still thinking it is bad for them to sleep with an adult? I'm not being sarcastic, I just really haven't read the Bible and I'm not clear on some of these things.

    I think there is a larger problem than marriage, although I'm all for priests getting married. I just think they would still be pedophiles whether or not they were married. The "people need to have sex" part I agree with, but these guys aren't just going out and having sex against the rules of the church, they're molesting kids.

    THIS^^
    Lots of love, light and hugs to you all!
  • BinauralJamBinauralJam Posts: 14,158
    SatansFuton wrote:
    BinauralJam wrote:
    people need to have sex, it's really just that simple, if they started letting preist get married it would go a long way to fixing this.

    I don't know dude. Why aren't they sneaking around having sex with adult women? Or adult men? What about them not being married means that they have to have sex with children? Is there some loophole in the Bible that I don't know about that allows for priests to justify having sex with children while still thinking it is bad for them to sleep with an adult? I'm not being sarcastic, I just really haven't read the Bible and I'm not clear on some of these things.

    I think there is a larger problem than marriage, although I'm all for priests getting married. I just think they would still be pedophiles whether or not they were married. The "people need to have sex" part I agree with, but these guys aren't just going out and having sex against the rules of the church, they're molesting kids.


    I agree with this, but i wonder if the policy toward marriage changed, if it wouldn't have prevented some small amount of these incidents, ironicly my wife asked a Nun once if being a Nun, ment None, and she said it was really more like don't ask don't tell policy.
  • ShimmyMommyShimmyMommy Posts: 7,505
    Binaural, just a side note. Not all priests or nuns have to take the vow of celibacy. From what I understand it is an option. I could be wrong. However, I do remember a RC priest when I was young who was married and they had children. He was priest when he married his wife. He told the story in one of his homilies.
    Lots of love, light and hugs to you all!
  • BinauralJamBinauralJam Posts: 14,158
    ShimmyMommy wrote:
    Binaural, just a side note. Not all priests or nuns have to take the vow of celibacy. From what I understand it is an option. I could be wrong. However, I do remember a RC priest when I was young who was married and they had children. He was priest when he married his wife. He told the story in one of his homilies.


    So:
    mean+nun.jpg = Celibacy/Catholic


    nun13.jpg
    = :twisted: /Protestant
  • JeanwahJeanwah Posts: 6,363
    ShimmyMommy wrote:
    Binaural, just a side note. Not all priests or nuns have to take the vow of celibacy. From what I understand it is an option. I could be wrong. However, I do remember a RC priest when I was young who was married and they had children. He was priest when he married his wife. He told the story in one of his homilies.

    Are you sure he wasn't a deacon? Because priests can't be married, but deacons can.

    Another thing that I saw on Bill Maher about this topic is that the church also says now that being 10 years old and under would be accounted for pediphilia but not if you were over 10 years old. :shock: I almost fell off the couch on that one...
  • haffajappahaffajappa British Columbia Posts: 5,955
    Jeanwah wrote:
    ShimmyMommy wrote:
    Binaural, just a side note. Not all priests or nuns have to take the vow of celibacy. From what I understand it is an option. I could be wrong. However, I do remember a RC priest when I was young who was married and they had children. He was priest when he married his wife. He told the story in one of his homilies.

    Are you sure he wasn't a deacon? Because priests can't be married, but deacons can.

    Another thing that I saw on Bill Maher about this topic is that the church also says now that being 10 years old and under would be accounted for pediphilia but not if you were over 10 years old. :shock: I almost fell off the couch on that one...
    Um.... what?
    live pearl jam is best pearl jam
  • ShimmyMommyShimmyMommy Posts: 7,505
    Jeanwah wrote:
    ShimmyMommy wrote:
    Binaural, just a side note. Not all priests or nuns have to take the vow of celibacy. From what I understand it is an option. I could be wrong. However, I do remember a RC priest when I was young who was married and they had children. He was priest when he married his wife. He told the story in one of his homilies.

    Are you sure he wasn't a deacon? Because priests can't be married, but deacons can.

    Another thing that I saw on Bill Maher about this topic is that the church also says now that being 10 years old and under would be accounted for pediphilia but not if you were over 10 years old. :shock: I almost fell off the couch on that one...

    Jeanwah, I am 95% sure he was a priest...he had the garb on...but I could be wrong...I was very young.

    As for your other point...WTF is wrong with the RCC? NO ONE SHOULD EVER BE VIOLATED REGARDLESS OF AGE, OR FOR ANY REASON, FOR THAT MATTER.
    That's almost like saying rape is okay because of the clothes they were wearing.
    :shock: Yes, I went there.
    This is a ridiculous farce that they are doing to probably hide that it goes all the way to the top.
    And Yes.
    I went there again.
    Lots of love, light and hugs to you all!
  • zarocatzarocat Posts: 1,901
    :lol:
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  • Who PrincessWho Princess out here in the fields Posts: 7,305
    311jj wrote:
    This is just sad and disappointing. I've been a Catholic my whole life and cannot understand why the church is passing the buck on this one. Its called responsibility. There's a few things in the Bible about it.

    I'm a Catholic because of all of the good things it does and the message of Christ to love thy neighbor. I can understand from an outsider's perspective that all they see and hear are the bad things the Church does and so it can be seen as an evil organization.

    But the most powerful element of the Church has been and always will be its people. It is up to us to hold our Church and its leaders responsible.
    I'm also a lifelong Catholic and believe this very strongly. The most meaningful part of my religion has been Catholic social teaching. The real strength is in the people.

    This report would be funny if it weren't so sad. The clergy abuse scandal has been very painful for me. It's hard to feel part of a church when I see the hierarchy respond the way it has.

    As to the role of celibacy in this, I read something years ago about how it might be partially to blame. Pedophiles are people who are sexually immature. They would be attracted to a profession like the priesthood where they are not expected to marry and have an adult sexual relationship. I can see some logic there but I don't think it's the total explanation. People in the ministry of other churches have abused kids and so have people like youth coaches and scout leaders. Because positions like that provide access to children, they will attract people who abuse children. Which tends to make all of us suspicious of the overwhelming majority of those people who do that kind of work because they genuinely care about kids.

    As far as encountering a married priest, there are a few priests who are married. Since the late 70s, priests in the Episcopal or Anglican church who want to convert can become Catholic priests. If they are already married they remain married even though they become Catholics. IMO that is unfair to Catholic priests who are not allowed to marry.
    "The stars are all connected to the brain."
  • ShimmyMommyShimmyMommy Posts: 7,505
    edited May 2011
    Ok, before I get smashed up on here.

    I am Roman Catholic. I know it is up to the flock to do the right thing with what we have been taught. However, if the ones who teach us can't take responsibility for their own actions, how can we look to them as mentors? How does that keep the faith going? For the survivors, it becomes something associated with the abuse and then they break from the religion.

    We can come up with all kinds of reasons (excuses, really) why somebody violates a child.

    Regardless of the reasons it is still wrong. It should have NEVER happen at all.

    What I think makes me upset about this whole thing is that the Catholic Church is not looking at the obvious. Pedophiles need access to children to groom them and violate them. What better way to do so than through a trusted profession/calling?

    I can see how the Catholic Church is doing what they think is damage control for the image of Catholicism, but they are not dealing with the actual problem...the pedophiles that are using yet another trusted profession to harm innocents.

    Pedophilia is not just a Catholic Church issue...it is everyone's issue. The Catholic Church just happens to be a good lightening rod for this because it is a religion.

    What makes me upset is that the Catholic Church chose to pass the buck and pin the tail on the 60s. They should be removing the offenders from their positions to show they do not support the abuse of children, even if that means they will to be short on staff. This would then permit the offenders to be prosecuted as they should be. It's for the good of the survivors and the Church. It's simply the right thing to do, and we all know that sometimes the right thing is not always the easiest thing to do.

    As for the comment on it not being fair for married priests to convert. I agree. I think any priest from any religion should be permitted to marry. It's not only good for the body, it's good for the heart. Jesus was a human after all, wasn't he? And I am okay with that.
    Post edited by ShimmyMommy on
    Lots of love, light and hugs to you all!
  • Who PrincessWho Princess out here in the fields Posts: 7,305
    You're not going to get smashed up by me. I'm also angry about how the Church has handled this. The whole response has been to circle the wagons and protect the abusers. I find that very offensive. I think it's cruel the way the victims have been blamed. What's incredible to me is how the clergy don't seem to have learned anything about why this tactic is wrong and how painful it is for those who have been abused. It depresses me.

    I sometimes think that when it comes to the clergy, this is an institution run by old men for the benefit of old men. Like some kind of exclusive club.

    And when I talked about the reasons that pedophiles may go into the priesthood, I was never trying to excuse their actions. Only to give some insight into why there may be so many pedophile priests. It seems to me that men who enter the priesthood haven't been screened well, if at all. They also haven't had to experience many repurcussions. Maybe the worst of it is that I don't see much hope that the Church is going to change.
    "The stars are all connected to the brain."
  • ShimmyMommyShimmyMommy Posts: 7,505
    whoprincess, I completely agree with you. I feel the same. It should definitely be handled differently and allowing pedophiles to hide behind the church is not a good way.

    I also agree that it the clergy has become something of exclusive club...they protect only their own, and not a soul outside their own. It's all about image...not about the teachings anymore. If it was about teachings they would not have allowed any of this to get this far.

    And when I said reasons/excuses, I was not referring directly to you. Your comment simply brought to mind another point. Abusers make all kinds of excuses to justify/defend what they did. They never take genuine responsibility for their crimes. It's how they permit themselves to continue the cycle of violence.

    All of this is a shame, really.

    It's time to show the love and light we are supposed to have for each other.
    Lots of love, light and hugs to you all!
  • JeanwahJeanwah Posts: 6,363
    I wish I could find the way Maher put it exactly, and I wonder if it's even true about the "10 years and up not being considered pediphilia/ rape", but I can't find it online in a quick search. It was his episode from last Friday (5/20).
  • Who PrincessWho Princess out here in the fields Posts: 7,305
    Jeanwah wrote:
    I wish I could find the way Maher put it exactly, and I wonder if it's even true about the "10 years and up not being considered pediphilia/ rape", but I can't find it online in a quick search. It was his episode from last Friday (5/20).
    I read that too, in a NY Times article about the report. Unfortunately I can't do a search for it. I've read my maximum number of free articles for the month.
    "The stars are all connected to the brain."
  • ByrnzieByrnzie Posts: 21,037
    I wonder what oscar Wilde would have to say about this? :think:
  • puremagicpuremagic Posts: 1,907
    Here's the 152 page study of [don't blame us, blame society – we were just doing what everyone else was doing] Blame it on Free Love.
    http://www.usccb.org/mr/causes-and-cont ... 0-2010.pdf

    Funny how it appears these priests were able to resist the Temptation of drugs and the whole Vietnam war during the 1960s and1970s, but child rape,hell everyone was doing it – REALLY!!!

    The fact that these MEN under the protection of priesthood and the Vatican [an independent country] continuously commit these crimes around the world, is truly a crime against humanity.

    Would people be so forgiving, so understanding if it this repeated practice was being perpetuated by the leaders of any other country in the name of Judaism and Islam? It;s not about the religion it's about the sickos who should be held accountable like any other rapist and any other organization or country that condones the rape and abuse of children and protect rapists against the enforcement of criminal laws of any country.
    SIN EATERS--We take the moral excrement we find in this equation and we bury it down deep inside of us so that the rest of our case can stay pure. That is the job. We are morally indefensible and absolutely necessary.
  • davidtriosdavidtrios Posts: 9,732
    I found a news story today about a Catholic Priest stealing 100K from his church to support his gambling addiction. I think this is the first victimless crime from the Church I've ever read about. :?

    http://www.suntimes.com/5864426-417/pri ... selle.html
  • ShimmyMommyShimmyMommy Posts: 7,505
    Davidtrios wrote:
    I found a news story today about a Catholic Priest stealing 100K from his church to support his gambling addiction. I think this is the first victimless crime from the Church I've ever read about. :?

    http://www.suntimes.com/5864426-417/pri ... selle.html

    there are so many things wrong in this whole world, not just with the church... :(
    Lots of love, light and hugs to you all!
  • loveontwolegsloveontwolegs Posts: 501
    Davidtrios wrote:
    I found a news story today about a Catholic Priest stealing 100K from his church to support his gambling addiction. I think this is the first victimless crime from the Church I've ever read about. :?

    http://www.suntimes.com/5864426-417/pri ... selle.html

    Gambling addiction is NOT a victimless crime.
  • polaris_xpolaris_x Posts: 13,559
    i just had a lunch conversation with a colleague who is catholic and he basically said the sex scandals and gay marriage stuff is not what he subscribes to as a catholic ... my point is this: if the catholic church is currently known for its stance against gay marriage and their unwillingness to end the suffering of abuse and right the wrongs of the past - why would you want to be part of that ... many other religions teach similar principles as the catholic church as it relates to treatment of people, etc ... you don't need to be part of a religion to live by those values ...

    the catholic church is corrupt and are doing too much to inflict suffering and misery to people ... if it were me - i would have jumped ship long ago ...
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