60s culture blamed for Catholic Church Sex Abuse

dasvidana

pandora wrote:

Befriend an abuser, cover for them, justify, rationalize,
all wrong and people do it everyday everywhere.

Agreed. But your original post seemed to make lite of the Catholic Church's role in their abusing, covering for them, justifying, rationalizing the abuse.....which is the topic of the thread. Good to see that you are in agreement that abuse & covering for abusers is wrong, no matter who is doing it.

polaris_x

pandora wrote:

Same as others who enable abusers, my view, on all levels it is wrong.

As wrong as those abusing and making victims of other human beings,
this on all levels. Befriend an abuser, cover for them, justify, rationalize,
all wrong and people do it everyday everywhere.

but ... we're talking about an institution here ... a very large and powerful one at that ... it appears you are trying to rationalize the behaviour of the catholic church by saying it happens everyday by a lot of people ... i'm not sure how many individuals are allowing and enabling the sexual abuse of children but i do know there aren't many institutions that are doing this ...

pandora

I am not rationalizing bad behavior... I see it is all I am saying.

To me it is no different than what others do as individuals.

It is not surprising to me that when money is involved it is a cover thy ass situation.
We see this everywhere.

And we see people abusing others everywhere too with no accountability.
And we see everyday people enabling those that abuse.

But happily we see good people, positive people, helping others as I mentioned in my first
post... the good far outweigh the few bad... this in the church, this everywhere.

dasvidana

pandora wrote:

I am not rationalizing bad behavior... I see it is all I am saying.

To me it is no different than what others do as individuals.

It is not surprising to me that when money is involved it is a cover thy ass situation.
We see this everywhere.

And we see people abusing others everywhere too with no accountability.
And we see everyday people enabling those that abuse.

But happily we see good people, positive people, helping others as I mentioned in my first
post... the good far outweigh the few bad... this in the church, this everywhere.

I agree that it is everywhere, but I don't agree that other institutions (e.g. universities, sports teams) are getting off as easily as the Catholic Church is. Seems like the Catholic Church is either paying some hefty hush money or they have some other form of power over those who might blow the whistle.

pandora

dasvidana wrote:

pandora wrote:

Befriend an abuser, cover for them, justify, rationalize,
all wrong and people do it everyday everywhere.

Agreed. But your original post seemed to make lite of the Catholic Church's role in their abusing, covering for them, justifying, rationalizing the abuse.....which is the topic of the thread. Good to see that you are in agreement that abuse & covering for abusers is wrong, no matter who is doing it.

One would think everyone would believe that wouldn't one?
That no one would make light of abuse towards another human being.

Danimal

polaris_x wrote:

pandora wrote:

Lots of people enable abusers everyday everywhere...

really!?? ... what other groups are enabling and covering up child sex abuse?

You can not be this naive.

polaris_x

Danimal wrote:

You can not be this naive.

apparently i am ... please enlighten me ...

dasvidana

pandora wrote:

One would think everyone would believe that wouldn't one?
That no one would make light of abuse towards another human being.

That's exactly the point. The hierarchy of the Catholic Church IS making light of abuse towards children. Not just with sexual abuse, but with physical and emotional abuse also. At least in Ireland, the Catholic Church as gone largely unquestioned and unchecked for a very long time. Even the latest attempts to uncover the abuses has been met with stalling and minimizing by the church officials.

pandora

it's important to recognize all abuse not just some abuse done by some people

one would think
no one would make light of abuse that makes another human being a victim

until this can be a true statement in our everyday life amongst each other
abuse remains acceptable

Jeanwah

pandora wrote:

it's important to recognize all abuse not just some abuse done by some people

one would think
no one would make light of abuse that makes another human being a victim

until this can be a true statement in our everyday life amongst each other
abuse remains acceptable

Oh no you don't, Pandora.

You will not hijack this thread. Either keep it on topic or leave.

This thread is about the Catholic church scandal. If you don't want to discuss this, make your own thread.

satansbed

pandora wrote:

I am not rationalizing bad behavior... I see it is all I am saying.

To me it is no different than what others do as individuals.

It is not surprising to me that when money is involved it is a cover thy ass situation.
We see this everywhere.

And we see people abusing others everywhere too with no accountability.
And we see everyday people enabling those that abuse.

But happily we see good people, positive people, helping others as I mentioned in my first
post... the good far outweigh the few bad... this in the church, this everywhere.

its far worse than random individuals because a priest or a teacher is in a position of responsibilty over children and in a place of trust within communities, and when they use that responsibilty to abuse people it is far worse than individuals. coupled with the churches non reporting and ignoring of the problem within its structure they are certainly to blame for empowring and faciliating abusers by doing nothing about. so as a system and organisation the church deserves the bad name it has gotten from this abuse

pandora

Being at the hands of any abuser is 'far worse' in every situation,
most especially if you're the one being abused, or a loved one.

Can't really say one is worse than the other... it is all despicable
and should not be tolerated... yet it is.

Abuse is abuse
but some seem to think that certain abuse is worse than other abuse...
I don't
it all comes from the same place for me.
Until we face that, it won't get better, in my opinion.

Until the average joe can step up and see their part,
what they do to keep the cycle going... how can we expect reform,
and a kinder gentler world.

As I said before money plays a huge part in admitting guilt.
I would think that would be true for the church also....
cover thy ass.

Danimal

polaris_x wrote:

Danimal wrote:

You can not be this naive.

apparently i am ... please enlighten me ...

I will enlighten you...

http://www.google.com

Danimal

Jeanwah wrote:

pandora wrote:

it's important to recognize all abuse not just some abuse done by some people

one would think
no one would make light of abuse that makes another human being a victim

until this can be a true statement in our everyday life amongst each other
abuse remains acceptable

Oh no you don't, Pandora.

You will not hijack this thread. Either keep it on topic or leave.

This thread is about the Catholic church scandal. If you don't want to discuss this, make your own thread.

Oh yes she does Jeanwah.

If there is an attack on the Catholic Church or any religion there will be people defending what they believe.

Do not pigeon hole this
topic.

This about abuse. Stop putting labels on things.

Jeanwah

Danimal wrote:

Jeanwah wrote:

pandora wrote:

it's important to recognize all abuse not just some abuse done by some people

one would think
no one would make light of abuse that makes another human being a victim

until this can be a true statement in our everyday life amongst each other
abuse remains acceptable

Oh no you don't, Pandora.

You will not hijack this thread. Either keep it on topic or leave.

This thread is about the Catholic church scandal. If you don't want to discuss this, make your own thread.

Oh yes she does Jeanwah.

If there is an attack on the Catholic Church or any religion there will be people defending what they believe.

Do not pigeon hole this
topic.

This about abuse. Stop putting labels on things.

THIS is Pandora derailing a thread. The guidelines state to stay on topic. She can always create her own if she chooses.

satansbed

pandora wrote:

Being at the hands of any abuser is 'far worse' in every situation,
most especially if you're the one being abused, or a loved one.

Can't really say one is worse than the other... it is all despicable
and should not be tolerated... yet it is.

Abuse is abuse
but some seem to think that certain abuse is worse than other abuse...
I don't
it all comes from the same place for me.
Until we face that, it won't get better, in my opinion.

Until the average joe can step up and see their part,
what they do to keep the cycle going... how can we expect reform,
and a kinder gentler world.

As I said before money plays a huge part in admitting guilt.
I would think that would be true for the church also....
cover thy ass.

yes but the church deserves special condemnation for the abuse for covering it up and protecting the abusers

pandora

special condemnation?
over other churches? over other organizations? over everyday people?

you see, for me, that wouldn't be true

hypocrites are everywhere not exclusive to one organization, one church,
they are everyday people

abuse is everywhere
for me abuse is abuse and should not be tolerated anywhere
should not be rationalized, befriended, covered up, or lightened up.

catefrances

pandora wrote:

special condemnation?
over other churches? over other organizations? over everyday people?

you see, for me, that wouldn't be true

hypocrites are everywhere not exclusive to one organization, one church,
they are everyday people

abuse is everywhere
for me abuse is abuse and should not be tolerated anywhere
should not be rationalized, befriended, covered up, or lightened up.

the thread topic is 60s culture blames for CATHOLIC church sex abuse. therefore thats the topic for discussion.

if you feel so strongly about other churches/organisations abusing children go find some links and stories and start a thread. dont give us a lecture about how ALL abuse is despicable and how we shouldnt be singling out the catholic church.

satansbed

pandora wrote:

special condemnation?
over other churches? over other organizations? over everyday people?

you see, for me, that wouldn't be true

hypocrites are everywhere not exclusive to one organization, one church,
they are everyday people

abuse is everywhere
for me abuse is abuse and should not be tolerated anywhere
should not be rationalized, befriended, covered up, or lightened up.

yes, yes, and yes

blueandwhite

pandora wrote:

special condemnation?
over other churches? over other organizations? over everyday people?

you see, for me, that wouldn't be true

hypocrites are everywhere not exclusive to one organization, one church,
they are everyday people

abuse is everywhere
for me abuse is abuse and should not be tolerated anywhere
should not be rationalized, befriended, covered up, or lightened up.

Sorry, but an organization denies any responsibility for the actions of its members and then goes on and blames society for its corruption deserves to be condemned. Every pedopreist should have been thrown from the organization. The fact that the Church has gone to such great lengths to protect these members is precisely why it deserves special condemnation.

Imagine if your local school board protected a group of child molesters on the grounds that they were the product of 60's culture. The public outcry would be insane! A teacher that is accused of so much as touching a child is immediately stripped of their teaching duties (rightly so). They certainly don't have the board's support, and if they are found guilty of the crime they won't have their union's support either. Honestly, what other organizations have gone to such great lengths to hind or protect pedophiles?

If you use a position of power to lure your victims into a compromising position you deserve every bit of condemnation you receive. When an organization as powerful and influential as the Catholic Church is involved the victims are at a severe disadvantage, particularly when the Church will not take responsibility for its members.