***The Official Philadelphia Phillies 2012 Thread***

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  • Posts: 7,078
    The Fixer wrote:
    For the anti-WAR crowd, it also takes defense and baserunning into account. It's the best stastical measure of all around performance that there is in baseball today (which is why guys like ryan howard grade so poorly and guys like chase utley grade so well). but if you want to pretend like it's still 1988 and go by RBI and runs, be my guest.

    Once again u bring him up,and still u under value hrs,rbi's and the clutch gene. Has werth been are best player this year? According to that flawed stat he has,but u me and everyone else know he isn't or hasn't been. NO stat tells the whole truth.
    Go Birds!!!!
  • Posts: 12,837
    jamminpearls wrote:
    show previous quotes

    Once again u bring him up,and still u under value hrs,rbi's and the clutch gene. Has werth been are best player this year? According to that flawed stat he has,but u me and everyone else know he isn't or hasn't been. NO stat tells the whole truth.

    I'd agree with Johnny that chooch has been their best positional player this year...as well as the fact that werth's biggest value to this team has been his ability to stay in the lineup.
  • Posts: 49,594
    Johnny Abruzzo wrote:
    show previous quotes

    Oakie doak. Paying 5% on a 30 year - should I be refinancing yet again?

    depending on your situation you could be looking at low 4's. their starting to creep up slightly though...
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  • Posts: 49,594
    The Fixer wrote:
    show previous quotes

    I'd agree with Johnny that chooch has been their best positional player this year...as well as the fact that werth's biggest value to this team has been his ability to stay in the lineup.

    johnny also said werth's high war was proof its a flawed stat. this was the first year howard missed time for injury in years and you always knock him for his low war....
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  • Posts: 7,078
    edited September 2010
    The Fixer wrote:
    show previous quotes

    I'd agree with Johnny that chooch has been their best positional player this year...as well as the fact that werth's biggest value to this team has been his ability to stay in the lineup.

    Ill give u an A for competely avoiding the question. War is far from always being right as Jayson Werth is a perfect example,the stat is flawed.
    Post edited by jamminpearls on
    Go Birds!!!!
  • Posts: 49,594
    The Fixer wrote:
    show previous quotes

    the bullpen is still a major question mark. PLayoffs are wide open though...all the teams, especially in the NL are flawed.

    Where you sitting wednesday?


    bullpen was a question last year too and we got to game 6. i think we're in better shape now than last year.

    i spoke too soon on securing the tix...but i'll either be in 325 or 420-ish (those 420-ish seats are the best bang for the buck in that stadium. i love sitting there)
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  • Posts: 12,837
    The Jeagler wrote:
    show previous quotes

    johnny also said werth's high war was proof its a flawed stat. this was the first year howard missed time for injury in years and you always knock him for his low war....

    werth's WAR is higher than howards for a number of reasons...defense, OBP, baserunning, position, etc.

    never said howard's WAR was low due to him missing time. not sure if that's what you were insinuating

    I don't even know how I got roped back into this. WAR is a valuable tool to reflect a players all around contribution. It's not the be-all-end-all, no stat is.
  • Posts: 12,837
    jamminpearls wrote:
    show previous quotes

    Ill give u an A for competely avoiding the question. War is far from always being right as Jayson Werth is a perfect example,the stat is flawed.

    you asked if jayson werth has been 'are' best player this year. I said no, chooch has.

    'are best player'. classic
  • Posts: 12,837
    The Jeagler wrote:


    i think we're in better shape now than last year.

    I completely disagree. Last year Eyre and Park were great in the playoffs. ANd romero was much better than he has been this year (which isn't saying much since he sucks).

    This year they have no competent LH reliever. Contreras has been hit or miss. Durbin is OK. Madson has been great. and lidge is OK. so they have 1 solid option out of their pen. That is a huge concern for me.
  • Posts: 49,594
    The Fixer wrote:
    show previous quotes

    I completely disagree. Last year Eyre and Park were great in the playoffs. ANd romero was much better than he has been this year (which isn't saying much since he sucks).

    This year they have no competent LH reliever. Contreras has been hit or miss. Durbin is OK. Madson has been great. and lidge is OK. so they have 1 solid option out of their pen. That is a huge concern for me.

    last year we had pedro martinez making 2 starts in the world series. this year we have 3 aces. its basically a question of what is more important---a better bullpen or a better rotation. i think our top 3 in the rotation outweighs the deficiences in the pen. plus the back end of the pen is better than last year too.
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  • Posts: 7,078
    How u got ropped into it lol,u aka THE FIXER brought Howard up once again. A war conservation was going on without Howards name,u join the conservation and it comes up.
    Go Birds!!!!
  • Posts: 12,837
    The Jeagler wrote:
    show previous quotes

    last year we had pedro martinez making 2 starts in the world series. this year we have 3 aces. its basically a question of what is more important---a better bullpen or a better rotation. i think our top 3 in the rotation outweighs the deficiences in the pen. plus the back end of the pen is better than last year too.

    I hope you're right. I think the bullpen is just as, if not more important come playoff time. Their rotation is much much better, no question about that.

    Back of bullpen is pretty much the same. Lidge might be better than last year, but their 7th inning guy will be worse than park was last year.

    Heard on MLB Network last night that Lidges' WHIP this year is lower than it was in 2008. That is fucking crazy
  • Posts: 12,837
    jamminpearls wrote:
    How u got ropped into it lol,u aka THE FIXER brought Howard up once again. A war conservation was going on without Howards name,u join the conservation and it comes up.

    I was just using howard as an example of a one dimensional player. I wasn't trying to start another war (no pun intended). I should have picked someone else, like brad hawpe
  • Posts: 49,594
    The Fixer wrote:
    show previous quotes

    I hope you're right. I think the bullpen is just as, if not more important come playoff time. Their rotation is much much better, no question about that.

    Back of bullpen is pretty much the same. Lidge might be better than last year, but their 7th inning guy will be worse than park was last year.

    Heard on MLB Network last night that Lidges' WHIP this year is lower than it was in 2008. That is fucking crazy

    plus the bench is much improved.

    so you've got a worsened middle relief/lefty specialist situation
    we'll call it the same back end....though i would lean to saying its slightly better just because lidge is healthy
    offense--same
    the bench is much improved due to all the time they got with the injuries and addition of dom brown
    and the rotation is infinitely improved

    plus--assuming things go according to plan, homefield advantage throughout the entire playoffs and world series which we did not have last year.
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  • Philly Posts: 12,360
    Jearlpam0925 wrote:
    No mansion? I thought that was the point of being an actuary. You may be receiving some questions via PM from me regarding this field.

    I've got a regular job for a shitty company just like everyone else. Industry consolidation, belt tightening, outsourcing, all that shit we have to deal with.

    I think our bullpen is in better shape than 2009 too. Lidge was a certifiable disaster last year - he had the worst year ever for a closer. I'm not a big proponent of "closers" but that definitely has a huge effect on the confidence of a team. I also don't think Madson was as good as he is this year. As for the lack of a LOOGY, Romero sucked last year too, when he wasn't injured or on suspension. I guess Eyre was pretty valuable.

    As for WAR & position players, I noticed a huge dropoff in the Phillies' play when Chooch was on the DL. They really struggled without him. I think they did ok without everyone else, including R6, actually. That guy is due for a nice contract.
    Spectrum 10/27/09; New Orleans JazzFest 5/1/10; Made in America 9/2/12; Phila, PA 10/21/13; Phila,  PA 10/22/13; Baltimore Arena 10/27/13; Phila, PA 4/28/16; Phila, PA 4/29/16; Fenway Park 8/7/16; Fenway Park 9/2/18; Asbury Park 9/18/21; Camden 9/14/22; Las Vegas 5/16/24; Las Vegas 5/18/24; Phila, PA 9/7/24; Phila, PA 9/9/24; Baltimore Arena 9/12/24; Pittsburgh 5/16/25; Pittsburgh 5/18/25

    Tres Mtns - TLA 3/23/11; EV - Tower Theatre 6/25/11; Temple of the Dog - Tower Theatre 11/5/16
  • Posts: 12,837
    The Jeagler wrote:

    plus the bench is much improved.

    so you've got a worsened middle relief/lefty specialist situation
    we'll call it the same back end....though i would lean to saying its slightly better just because lidge is healthy
    offense--same
    the bench is much improved due to all the time they got with the injuries and addition of dom brown
    and the rotation is infinitely improved

    plus--assuming things go according to plan, homefield advantage throughout the entire playoffs and world series which we did not have last year.

    solid analysis. I'd say the offense is better if rollins is healthy. Polanco over Feliz is a HUGE upgrade. I think they are better in all facets except for the bullpen. Come playoff time, the bullpen is arguably the most important part of the team.

    At least we're talking about playoffs, which is something I was concerned about after that abortion of a series vs the astros.

    Also, braves now on a 9 game road trip. they are under .500 on the road this year. phils can really win the division over the next week.
  • Posts: 12,837
    Johnny Abruzzo wrote:
    show previous quotes

    I've got a regular job for a shitty company just like everyone else. Industry consolidation, belt tightening, outsourcing, all that shit we have to deal with.

    I think our bullpen is in better shape than 2009 too. Lidge was a certifiable disaster last year - he had the worst year ever for a closer. I'm not a big proponent of "closers" but that definitely has a huge effect on the confidence of a team. I also don't think Madson was as good as he is this year. As for the lack of a LOOGY, Romero sucked last year too, when he wasn't injured or on suspension. I guess Eyre was pretty valuable.

    As for WAR & position players, I noticed a huge dropoff in the Phillies' play when Chooch was on the DL. They really struggled without him. I think they did ok without everyone else, including R6, actually. That guy is due for a nice contract.

    chooch just got a 3 year deal before this season.
  • Posts: 49,594
    The Fixer wrote:
    show previous quotes

    solid analysis. I'd say the offense is better if rollins is healthy. Polanco over Feliz is a HUGE upgrade. I think they are better in all facets except for the bullpen. Come playoff time, the bullpen is arguably the most important part of the team.

    At least we're talking about playoffs, which is something I was concerned about after that abortion of a series vs the astros.

    Also, braves now on a 9 game road trip. they are under .500 on the road this year. phils can really win the division over the next week.

    thats why i really want the wednesday game tickets....let's say we both win 2 this weekend. we'll be 3 up heading into that series. take 2 out of 3 and we're up 4 with a week and a half to play. HEY. OH.
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  • Posts: 12,837
    this might be getting a little ahead of ourselves, but who would you put on the playoff roster as bench guys? assuming 5 spots I'd go

    gload
    valdez
    schneider
    sweeney
    francisco

    pretty cut and dry I think. I guess you could argue dobbs over sweeney just for his versatility
  • Philly Posts: 12,360
    The Fixer wrote:
    chooch just got a 3 year deal before this season.

    Oops. Way to make myself sound like an idiot. :oops:

    Only 5 bench spots? I guess that means a 12-man rotation. Do you need 12 if you only have 6 pitchers you're gonna use in close games anyway? It'd be nice to have Dom Brown for pinch running and the like.
    Spectrum 10/27/09; New Orleans JazzFest 5/1/10; Made in America 9/2/12; Phila, PA 10/21/13; Phila,  PA 10/22/13; Baltimore Arena 10/27/13; Phila, PA 4/28/16; Phila, PA 4/29/16; Fenway Park 8/7/16; Fenway Park 9/2/18; Asbury Park 9/18/21; Camden 9/14/22; Las Vegas 5/16/24; Las Vegas 5/18/24; Phila, PA 9/7/24; Phila, PA 9/9/24; Baltimore Arena 9/12/24; Pittsburgh 5/16/25; Pittsburgh 5/18/25

    Tres Mtns - TLA 3/23/11; EV - Tower Theatre 6/25/11; Temple of the Dog - Tower Theatre 11/5/16
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