This is what an abortion looks like

Shawshank · September 2010

scb wrote:

Of course everything is in the process of developing from the moment the egg and sperm meet. My purpose was to demonstrate what stage of development it's actually at and what abortions actually look like at this point in pregnancy. They don't look like the pictures you see people holding outside abortion clinics saying, "This is what you're doing to your baby." It's at the stage of development where it can't be seen with the naked eye - and the early ones can't even be seen with transvaginal ultrasound.

Sorry, but embryos at 5-7 weeks can be seen with the naked eye. They are slightly smaller than your average peanut, about a 1/4 to 1/2 inch. The best thing you could do is take an anatomy class and then you will quickly realize there's a lot missing from the photos that you posted.

gimmesometruth27 · September 2010

i view this from a science and anatomy and physiology perspective...can that blob of cells at this point in the pregnancy survive and thrive on it's own independant of the mother or machines? no. so in my opinion not a baby. sorry, but to me something that can not live independent of the mother or be kept alive artificially does not qualify as a human being.

if that blob of cells was the product and result of rape or incest would it change your opinion?

i am pro choice, as in i am for a woman's right to choose what happens to and within her own body. that does not make me pro death or pro abortion. this is a choice that a woman has to make with consultation from her physician and she has to live with that decision. i think that is enough anguish to deal with, and there does not need to be people protesting her at a clinic that do not know her and do not know her situation. that is just outright hate for someone that you do not know, but hey, that happens every day in 'merica....

_ · September 2010

Shawshank wrote:

scb wrote:

Of course everything is in the process of developing from the moment the egg and sperm meet. My purpose was to demonstrate what stage of development it's actually at and what abortions actually look like at this point in pregnancy. They don't look like the pictures you see people holding outside abortion clinics saying, "This is what you're doing to your baby." It's at the stage of development where it can't be seen with the naked eye - and the early ones can't even be seen with transvaginal ultrasound.

Sorry, but embryos at 5-7 weeks can be seen with the naked eye. They are slightly smaller than your average peanut, about a 1/4 to 1/2 inch. The best thing you could do is take an anatomy class and then you will quickly realize there's a lot missing from the photos that you posted.

Please show it to us in the picture then. Or are you suggesting the people taking the photograph took out the embryo and left everything else in just to be deceitful? :?

If you're suggesting the latter, please explain why so many women have miscarriages and never know or have medication abortions and watch for a baby to come out and never see anything.

ETA: Would it make you feel better if I said it's not distinguishable by the naked eye? Or it can't be identified by the naked (and trained) eye?? As speck of dust can be seen with the naked eye if all the conditions are just right; that doesn't mean you could find it if you were looking for it though.

Hugh Freaking Dillon · September 2010

my one year old couldn't survive without my wife or I. she's a human being. (I know what you mean, just being a d*ck!

)

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

i view this from a science and anatomy and physiology perspective...can that blob of cells at this point in the pregnancy survive and thrive on it's own independant of the mother or machines? no. so in my opinion not a baby. sorry, but to me something that can not live independent of the mother or be kept alive artificially does not qualify as a human being.

if that blob of cells was the product and result of rape or incest would it change your opinion?

i am pro choice, as in i am for a woman's right to choose what happens to and within her own body. that does not make me pro death or pro abortion. this is a choice that a woman has to make with consultation from her physician and she has to live with that decision. i think that is enough anguish to deal with, and there does not need to be people protesting her at a clinic that do not know her and do not know her situation. that is just outright hate for someone that you do not know, but hey, that happens every day in 'merica....

Hugh Freaking Dillon · September 2010

unfortunately, some women DO use it as birth control, out of laziness, or stupidity, or whathaveyou. I had "relations" with a friend once, who I later found out from a mutal friend had previously had SIX, count em SIX, abortions. She didn't take birth control. She just thought "if it happens I'll take care of it".

I almost threw up. She may as well just have carried around a coat hanger as a do-it-yourself kit.

CJMST3K · September 2010

Paul David wrote:

unfortunately, some women DO use it as birth control, out of laziness, or stupidity, or whathaveyou. I had "relations" with a friend once, who I later found out from a mutal friend had previously had SIX, count em SIX, abortions. She didn't take birth control. She just thought "if it happens I'll take care of it".

I almost threw up. She may as well just have carried around a coat hanger as a do-it-yourself kit.

I was involved with a woman with the same philosophy.

The "women don't use abortion as a method of birth control" line that I've heard on this board before is naive.

CJMST3K · September 2010

scb wrote:

CJMST3K wrote:

So, scb, why is there only photos of the earliest possibly abortion? If you really believe in your position, which I believe you've said is abortion for practically any age fetus, why not post photos of all of the ages that you agree should be legal for? You started this thread, so lets see you see it thru.

scb wrote:

For all of you who think having an abortion necessarily kills a person, please identify the person in these photographs.

Fair enough... So please post photos of abortions at all stages that YOU support. Whatever age photos you omit, I will assume you don't support.

scb wrote:

I just want people's beliefs to be based on accurate information.

Me too. Lets see photos of all age abortions, so we can see ACCURATE information.

MOST abortions are at less than 9 weeks gestation. These are the first photographs I've ever found online of what is seen when abortion is performed at less than 9 weeks. If I could find more, I would post them. My point is to show what it really looks like at the stage that MOST abortions occur. My position about how late they should be ALLOWED to occur is not relevant to when they actually DO occur.

Do abortions occur when the fetus is more developed? Yes. But when your sister or girlfriend or daughter has an abortion, chances are that is NOT the kind of abortion they are having - yet people associate those images with early abortions. I just think people should have the opportunity to associate accurate images with the abortions that are most likely occurring around them.

So... are you uncomfortable showing the photos of later abortions? I mean, people might actually answer your "please identify the person in these photographs" question then. Abortions are allowed until later terms than 9 weeks, and there are photos of them... so, clearly they DO occur. I'm not saying they are most, but they are significant enough to discuss, especially when you pose a loaded question of "please identify the person in these photographs".

_ · September 2010

CJMST3K wrote:

Paul David wrote:

unfortunately, some women DO use it as birth control, out of laziness, or stupidity, or whathaveyou. I had "relations" with a friend once, who I later found out from a mutal friend had previously had SIX, count em SIX, abortions. She didn't take birth control. She just thought "if it happens I'll take care of it".

I almost threw up. She may as well just have carried around a coat hanger as a do-it-yourself kit.

I was involved with a woman with the same philosophy.

The "women don't use abortion as a method of birth control" line that I've heard on this board before is naive.

Since this thread is about accurate representation of what most abortions look like and not social issues or reasons women choose abortion, all I'm going to say about that is :roll: .

FiveB247x · September 2010

Is it mass murder or delicious double homicide ;-) As George Carlin used to say, how come with humans it's an abortion, but with chickens, it's an omelette? Since when did humans pass chickens on the goodness scale?

_ · September 2010

CJMST3K wrote:

scb wrote:

MOST abortions are at less than 9 weeks gestation. These are the first photographs I've ever found online of what is seen when abortion is performed at less than 9 weeks. If I could find more, I would post them. My point is to show what it really looks like at the stage that MOST abortions occur. My position about how late they should be ALLOWED to occur is not relevant to when they actually DO occur.

Do abortions occur when the fetus is more developed? Yes. But when your sister or girlfriend or daughter has an abortion, chances are that is NOT the kind of abortion they are having - yet people associate those images with early abortions. I just think people should have the opportunity to associate accurate images with the abortions that are most likely occurring around them.

So... are you uncomfortable showing the photos of later abortions? I mean, people might actually answer your "please identify the person in these photographs" question then. Abortions are allowed until later terms than 9 weeks, and there are photos of them... so, clearly they DO occur. I'm not saying they are most, but they are significant enough to discuss, especially when you pose a loaded question of "please identify the person in these photographs".

Of course I'm not uncomfortable posting pictures of late abortions - but I suspect that the mods might be uncomfortable with it. I'm not really clear what part of "Here's what EARLY abortions look like" or "identify the person in THESE photographs" you don't understand. Are you really incapable of acknowledging that most abortions don't look anything like the very few late term abortions with which you seem to be so obsessed?? :?

Hugh Freaking Dillon · September 2010

I think his point is that your argument seems incomplete. You can't argue for pro-choice by only stating PART of what happens.

It's like saying you are pro death penalty because MOST people executed are guilty.

scb wrote:

CJMST3K wrote:

scb wrote:

MOST abortions are at less than 9 weeks gestation. These are the first photographs I've ever found online of what is seen when abortion is performed at less than 9 weeks. If I could find more, I would post them. My point is to show what it really looks like at the stage that MOST abortions occur. My position about how late they should be ALLOWED to occur is not relevant to when they actually DO occur.

Do abortions occur when the fetus is more developed? Yes. But when your sister or girlfriend or daughter has an abortion, chances are that is NOT the kind of abortion they are having - yet people associate those images with early abortions. I just think people should have the opportunity to associate accurate images with the abortions that are most likely occurring around them.

So... are you uncomfortable showing the photos of later abortions? I mean, people might actually answer your "please identify the person in these photographs" question then. Abortions are allowed until later terms than 9 weeks, and there are photos of them... so, clearly they DO occur. I'm not saying they are most, but they are significant enough to discuss, especially when you pose a loaded question of "please identify the person in these photographs".

Of course I'm not uncomfortable posting pictures of late abortions - but I suspect that the mods might be uncomfortable with it. I'm not really clear what part of "Here's what EARLY abortions look like" or "identify the person in THESE photographs" you don't understand. Are you really incapable of acknowledging that most abortions don't look anything like the very few late term abortions with which you seem to be so obsessed?? :?

CJMST3K · September 2010

scb wrote:

Of course I'm not uncomfortable posting pictures of late abortions - but I suspect that the mods might be uncomfortable with it. I'm not really clear what part of "Here's what EARLY abortions look like" or "identify the person in THESE photographs" you don't understand. Are you really incapable of acknowledging that most abortions don't look anything like the very few late term abortions with which you seem to be so obsessed?? :?

Nope. I am capable of acknowledging that most abortions are not late term abortions.

Your thread is titled "This is what an abortion looks like". I thought you would be more concise showing a well rounded photos of exactly that. What you did instead was choose a very specific type of photo which shows exclusively the earliest abortions, and exclusively photos which indeed look like the yolk of an egg. Your objective seems clear - show that abortions look like nothing resembling humans. ...but your photo was carefully chosen to be a photo which looks like nothing.

If you changed the title of your thread to be less misleading, and maybe "This is what an early abortion looks like", I wouldn't be asking for you to post more well rounded group of photos. But as of now, your thread title has no qualifier, yet the photos have a very specific one.

Here's a chart for you and viewers of this thread. I'm trusting wikipedia, as I have not personally done field research on the subject.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:US_ab ... togram.svg

The highest spike in abortions are in the 9-10 week mark (weeks ahead of the photos you are posting) with a still significant number up to the 20 week mark. I'm sure there are abortions after the 20 week mark but those I think all would consider few and far between. After the 20 week mark, the number diminishes significantly.

...so, I suppose I'll specify, are you comfortable posting photos of abortions from week 1 to week 20, as those are the vast majority of abortions? Because that would be more in line with the thread title.

_ · September 2010

Paul David wrote:

I think his point is that your argument seems incomplete. You can't argue for pro-choice by only stating PART of what happens.

It's like saying you are pro death penalty because MOST people executed are guilty.

But I'm not arguing any position in this thread. I'm just showing what most abortions look like. Trust me when I say I have made very complete pro-choice arguments in many different threads, ad nauseum, for years - and this (in this thread) is not me defending the pro-choice position. (He, on the other hand, seems to ignore 99.93% of abortions to focus on the sensationalism of the 0.07% of late-term abortions in the U.S.) If anyone would like to argue the pro-choice position as a whole, I'd be happy to do that in another thread. But this thread is about what early abortions look like, since they are representative of most abortions in this country.

darthvedder81 · September 2010

What I'll never understand about people advocating for "choice" is this: how about choosing not to have sex? People act like babies just magically appear and "Oh well, people gotta be able to choose an abortion!". Why not be a responsible adult and make your "choice" earlier? Wow there's a concept. If you aren't at least moderately comfortable with the idea of having a child don't have sex. It's that simple.

Even if you don't think a 5 week old fetus counts as "life" isn't abortion still an ugly, messy, painful, expensive & morally dubious thing? Don't put yourself in that position.

Shawshank · September 2010

scb wrote:

Please show it to us in the picture then. Or are you suggesting the people taking the photograph took out the embryo and left everything else in just to be deceitful? :?

I don't know, you tell me. This one is around 6 Weeks.

blessing%201.jpg&t=1

It is hardly a spec, and can easily be seen with the naked eye. It's basic Anatomy. If you have even a small amount of schooling in Anatomy and Physiology, the first thing that pops in your head when you read your original post is "bullshit". There's much more to it at that phase of the pregnancy than what is being represented.

Hugh Freaking Dillon · September 2010

scb wrote:

But I'm not arguing any position in this thread.

I would say this is arguing a position:

scb wrote:

For all of you who think having an abortion necessarily kills a person, please identify the person in these photographs

Hugh Freaking Dillon · September 2010

because humans, by and large, are stupid. we have instincts, which many times override common sense, and my instinct tells me to have sex at all times at any cost. just ask my wife.

darthvedder81 wrote:

What I'll never understand about people advocating for "choice" is this: how about choosing not to have sex? People act like babies just magically appear and "Oh well, people gotta be able to choose an abortion!". Why not be a responsible adult and make your "choice" earlier? Wow there's a concept. If you aren't at least moderately comfortable with the idea of having a child don't have sex. It's that simple.

Even if you don't think a 5 week old fetus counts as "life" isn't abortion still an ugly, messy, painful, expensive & morally dubious thing? Don't put yourself in that position.

gimmesometruth27 · September 2010

darthvedder81 wrote:

What I'll never understand about people advocating for "choice" is this: how about choosing not to have sex? People act like babies just magically appear and "Oh well, people gotta be able to choose an abortion!". Why not be a responsible adult and make your "choice" earlier? Wow there's a concept. If you aren't at least moderately comfortable with the idea of having a child don't have sex. It's that simple.

Even if you don't think a 5 week old fetus counts as "life" isn't abortion still an ugly, messy, painful, expensive & morally dubious thing? Don't put yourself in that position.

i'm an adult, i've been in love and if i want to have sex with my lady i am going to have sex. see, i can be as obtuse and black and white as everyone else...the fact is you are arguing with a very simple mentality and it takes no other variables into consideration.

now i am going to go on a rant....

the fact is, you can have an opinion on abortion, but you should not be allowed to force that opinion on any women. how would you feel if you were forced to have a vasectomy for example, or how about you get forced to donate an organ because i think it is the right thing to do? see, i can't project my beliefs onto you or legislate what you do with your body, so you can't do it to anyone else.

the fact is that this is over 99% of abortions and when they occur. yes pictures of late term abortions are ugly, but as someone said earlier, why sensationalize the 1%? it is like giving free press and publicity to that douchebag pastor to a flock of 35 people who is about to burn a koran...

rant over....

cincybearcat · September 2010

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

now i am going to go on a rant....

the fact is, you can have an opinion on abortion, but you should not be allowed to force that opinion on any women.

First of all, for me at least, it's not about telling a woman what she can do with her body, it's about protecting the body of another that happens to be inside the body of the woman.

Secondly, we as a society continue to diminish the rights of fathers. I believe this also contributes to men feeling no responsibility and leaving their seed wherever and whenever. Society keeps telling men that they don't matter on this topic, of course, their $ still matters.

So, personally, I believe it is 100% ok for a man to have an opinion on this topic. In fact, they should have an opinion.

_ · September 2010

CJMST3K wrote:

scb wrote:

Of course I'm not uncomfortable posting pictures of late abortions - but I suspect that the mods might be uncomfortable with it. I'm not really clear what part of "Here's what EARLY abortions look like" or "identify the person in THESE photographs" you don't understand. Are you really incapable of acknowledging that most abortions don't look anything like the very few late term abortions with which you seem to be so obsessed?? :?

Nope. I am capable of acknowledging that most abortions are not late term abortions.

Your thread is titled "This is what an abortion looks like". I thought you would be more concise showing a well rounded photos of exactly that. What you did instead was choose a very specific type of photo which shows exclusively the earliest abortions, and exclusively photos which indeed look like the yolk of an egg. Your objective seems clear - show that abortions look like nothing resembling humans. ...but your photo was carefully chosen to be a photo which looks like nothing.

If you changed the title of your thread to be less misleading, and maybe "This is what an early abortion looks like", I wouldn't be asking for you to post more well rounded group of photos. But as of now, your thread title has no qualifier, yet the photos have a very specific one.

Here's a chart for you and viewers of this thread. I'm trusting wikipedia, as I have not personally done field research on the subject.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:US_ab ... togram.svg

The highest spike in abortions are in the 9-10 week mark (weeks ahead of the photos you are posting) with a still significant number up to the 20 week mark. I'm sure there are abortions after the 20 week mark but those I think all would consider few and far between. After the 20 week mark, the number diminishes significantly.

...so, I suppose I'll specify, are you comfortable posting photos of abortions from week 1 to week 20, as those are the vast majority of abortions? Because that would be more in line with the thread title.

Dude, your inability to understand the singular form of the noun "AN abortion" does not not make my thread title misleading. It doesn't say this is what ALL abortionS look like. It says an - singular - abortion. I provided pictures of a particular gestational age of abortion - the only real pictures I can find of any early abortions, which represent MOST abortions in this country.

Regarding posting photos that look like nothing, that's what it looks like. I didn't photoshop the pictures or something. My objective is to provide accurate representations; you can decide for yourself whether it looks like a person.

As for your Wikipedia chart.... you should read the actual data referenced:
http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtm ... 1.htm#tab6
(Besides, I don't think you're reading the chart correctly.)

Here's what the CDC says in the article referenced by the Wikipedia link you posted:

27.9% - 6 weeks or less
32.7% - 7-8 weeks
17.1% - 9-10 weeks
9.1% - 11-12 weeks
6.3% - 13-15 weeks (note how this is 3 weeks now, not 2)
3.7% - 16-20 weeks (note how this is 4 weeks)
1.9% - 21 weeks

Let's say this data is accurate (there is more accurate data available, if you're interested). The highest spike in abortions is not at the 9-10 week mark, as you said, but at the 7-8 week mark - the 7-week mark in particular (17.8%) - the same age as the 2nd photo I posted. In fact there are more abortions at 7 weeks alone than at 9 & 10 weeks combined. And, while I am comfortable posting pictures of abortions from 1 to 40 weeks if you like, I would say you're misrepresenting the facts when you say the vast majority of abortions occur at up to 20 weeks, when in reality 88% (or 86.8%, if you use this data) of abortions occur at less than 12 weeks - and still the majority occur at 8 weeks or less. So I'd say my pictures fit my thread title just fine.

This is what an abortion looks like

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