I've known many women to go through this particular issue and I can tell you that oftentimes it's the courtesy for the man and the sense of what he deserves (or doesn't deserve to have laid on him) and concern for his feelings that lead a woman to NOT tell him.
personally i would not want to know. but that is just me....in my past, i, like most men, have had one nighters like those that have been mentioned here, always with protection btw, but i would just not want to know....
"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
Whether women doing all the work is no longer in the majority is, as you said, a matter of perspective. Some people have a different perspective and different experiences. I'm not sure how you can say that callen has NO idea what she is talking about and her(?) perspective has no basis in reality. What makes your experience any more representative of reality than hers? :?
because hers is a blanket statement of the stereotypical asshole man, and I happen to know SEVERAL men that are not like that, which blows that claim out of the water.
Your knowledge that not all men are assholes proves that not all men are assholes (which I'm not sure is what she was saying anyway). But it doesn't give you the authority to then turn around and make 3 blanket statements back to her:
1. She has no idea what she's talking about.
2. Her perspective has no basis in reality.
3. The situation she spoke of does not represent the majority.
All either of you know is that a lot of situations are like the one she described and a lot are like the one you described. Either could be in the majority, really, and it seems like each of you might (since we can't really speak for her) think the one you have experienced represents the majority but we don't really have any way of knowing since neither of you know most of the men in the world.
(Really, though? You think MORE THAN 50% of the men in society do a FULL 50% of the CHILDCARE work?? Think outside your several like-minded friends for a moment. Really?? :? Would the wives of these majority of men agree that they do fully half the work or is that just their perspective?? Because in all honesty, I know some men who think they do half the childcare work - which does include pregnancy, childbirth, and breastfeeding but doesn't include going to work to earn an income - and maybe a couple who actually do, but the majority of men I know don't even claim that they really do half the work. And that's just counting the good guys.)
I understand that this whole fathers' rights issue is difficult and often heartbreaking for men. The problem is, there's really no good solution. There isn't really a middle ground. If the two of you disagree, ONE of you has to decide. Either you get to decide or she does. It's not fair, but it's life. And if only one of you gets to decide (and that's the fault of nature, not law), then it makes sense that it should be the person whose body the baby is a part of and who will (likely) ultimately have more responsibility for the child (if there's an imbalance of responsibility). There's really no other choice when it comes down to it. So, yeah, it would be nice to be in a situation where both partners could be a team and make the decision together, but that's not always the case. And I know you said you "deserve" to be consulted and would like to be shown the same "courtesy" as the woman - and that's true. But it's not really about whether the guy is deserving or him being shown courtesy. It's about the pregnancy and the best decision to make about it. So if it's ultimately the woman's decision and she already knows what she thinks is best, then talking about the courtesy the guy deserve kind of seems to be more about his feelings and ego than about the actual pregnancy, no? Not that men's feelings aren't important - but they're not necessarily related to the decision at hand.
I'm confused by your statement to cate though. You said
if she was just calling me to say "I'm pregnant with your child, but I'm getting rid of it", I'd probably rather not know at all.
So which is it? :?
of course in the end it's the woman's decision. I made that clear already.
my two statements to cate were about two different situations. the first was in the case where the woman and I sat down and talked about it, not knowing where the conversation would lead us, but obviously knowing it's her body, the decision is ultimately hers. the second one was a hypothetical that if the woman in question had made up her mind entirely and was just calling to tell me she was going to do it, well, I honestly don't know how I'd feel about it. It's impossible for me to know for sure.
and actually, my feelings are entirely relevant to the decision. how are they not? it has nothing to do with ego, I should be involved in the decision. does she have the final say? absolutely, it's her body. but I'd like to state my case, if that's what I felt was right for that situation.
(just so you know, I'm hitting the hay, so if there are more responses, I'll catch them in the morning).
Your feelings are really only relevant to the decision if you are making the decision together. But otherwise it just doesn't make sense to say you should be "involved" in the decision but she should have the final say. I mean, what does that mean and how would that work? You say, "I want you to have the baby" and she says, "No" and then that means you were involved in the decision? I mean, do you think the man's opinion should necessarily influence the woman's decision? Like, let's say your 14-year-old daughter got pregnant and was going to have an abortion. Do you think just because her boyfriend came along and said she should have the baby that she should change her mind or something? (Or vice versa. Should your little girl have an abortion just because some kid she slept with wants her to?) I'm just not getting how someone can be "involved" in a decision that has absolutely no room for compromise. I just don't think that's possible unless the woman is unsure what to do AND the man's feelings would change the outcome of the whole situation. That's not to say that there is never any room for a man's feelings on the subject - just, again that there is not necessarily always a place for them. And I'm not saying it wouldn't be ideal to let you state your case - just that it's kind of just all for show so your feelings don't get hurt to let you state your case if she knows it won't change her mind.
Also, do you feel the exact same way about the influence the man should have in the decision-making process if it's the other way around and the man wants the woman to have an abortion?
I've known many women to go through this particular issue and I can tell you that oftentimes it's the courtesy for the man and the sense of what he deserves (or doesn't deserve to have laid on him) and concern for his feelings that lead a woman to NOT tell him.
Yeah, sure, end of story on what you would want (in some situations, though it's different in others). But my point was that I don't think your use of language like "courtesy" and "deserve" is unique to your point of view. Some people deserve to be told; some people deserve to not be told - but a belief that you're deserving doesn't dictate what you're deserving of. And courtesy means different things to different people as well. So just because a woman doesn't tell a man, it doesn't' mean she's not being courteous, as I think has been implied.
I guess my whole point (with this tangential conversation) is that I think you make this whole "father's rights" thing out to be much more simple than it really is (as does the term "father's rights"). Every situation is unique, so I don't think there's any room for "should"s.
Please see my post above about how your 8-week picture is really an 11-week picture.
And this is why this argument is so ridiculous. You are arguing over weeks. It's not about a week here or there, it is about what that life will develop into. Unless that chance is taken from it.
scb:
-your 14 year old daughter scenario isn't relevant to what I am talking about, as that includes minors. that's a whole different ball of wax.
-yes, I do believe I deserve the courtesy of being told I created life. I believe every man deserves that courtesy.
-I KNOW I do half the rearing of our daughters, and also most of the housework and yardwork. No, I'm not including going to work everyday in that. My wife and I are a team, and we help each other out as much as we can.
-fine, I made a blanket statement after hers. Let's let that one go. It was just an emotional response to someone who (I gather) hates men, or at least has some sort of problem with them, and those women bother me. get therapy or get over it. case closed.
-yes, of course my feelings are relevant if the decision is being made together. that's what I've been saying. I would HOPE we are making the decision together. Just because she might be leaning towards abortion, does that just mean I should throw in the towel and say "ah,it's no use", or should I tell her how I feel and stand up for what I want in life? I vote the latter.
-yes, I do think the man should be able to voice his influence if he's the one that wants the abortion, but as in the reverse scenario, as I stated clearly, it is the woman's decision in the end.
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
I've known many women to go through this particular issue and I can tell you that oftentimes it's the courtesy for the man and the sense of what he deserves (or doesn't deserve to have laid on him) and concern for his feelings that lead a woman to NOT tell him.
personally i would not want to know. but that is just me....in my past, i, like most men, have had one nighters like those that have been mentioned here, always with protection btw, but i would just not want to know....
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
ok, maybe I misunderstood your previous post. You said you wouldn't want to know. Let me clarify.....you wouldn't't want to know if she had an abortion, or you wouldn't want to know if she was pregnant, regardless what she was going to do?
I just went back and read it again. You were responding scb's point of not telling the guy if she was going to have an abortion, the first time I read it I read it as you not wanting to know either way. my bad.
sorry, gimme, I wasn't calling your character into question. I was just trying to clarify a point. my apologies if it offended you.
ok, maybe I misunderstood your previous post. You said you wouldn't want to know. Let me clarify.....you wouldn't't want to know if she had an abortion, or you wouldn't want to know if she was pregnant, regardless what she was going to do?
there's a link here that will show you many pictures of 1st trimester abortions. for an example you can click on a picture and it will show you what it looks like at 8 weeks. there are also pathologists medical authentications confirming the ages.
a warning though, it's not a pretty sight, so please don't click on the link if you feel it may upset you.
When I was pregnant with our boy, JB gave me a Peanut with a face drawn on it at eight weeks.
I still have it 27 years later. It looks a lot like the picture there.
I've had an abortion at 16, a miscarriage and 2 children.
I am pro choice but against abortion.
Some might think that is contradictory but I believe in the right to choose
but hope life is chosen.
Life is never regretted. Abortions can be.
There are probably many who feel like me.
Consider choosing Life, no one said it would be easy
but there will be Love.
Please see my post above about how your 8-week picture is really an 11-week picture.
And this is why this argument is so ridiculous. You are arguing over weeks. It's not about a week here or there, it is about what that life will develop into. Unless that chance is taken from it.
Which argument would that be? I haven't said, "Look at these pictures. Since you can't see a fetus, you should have an abortion." My only argument is that this is what it looks like at this point in the pregnancy and people should know the correct information. Are you trying to argue with either of those points? :?
You should know well enough by now that a lack of fetal development is not the basis of my pro-choice beliefs.
ok, maybe I misunderstood your previous post. You said you wouldn't want to know. Let me clarify.....you wouldn't't want to know if she had an abortion, or you wouldn't want to know if she was pregnant, regardless what she was going to do?
what if a woman from your past called you up and said "you have a 10 year old son/daughter", would you be happy, or would you wish she never called?
i would be angry that she never told me before. that is 10 years of not helping out with raising my child. what are you getting at???
i would not want to know if she had an abortion. i would rather not know she was pregnant in that case. if she were going to keep it i would want to know so i could be some sort of influence over the kid. just don't spring a surpise on me 10 years later, ya know?
no offense taken by the way, i was just trying to see what point you were trying to make.
"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
Please see my post above about how your 8-week picture is really an 11-week picture.
And this is why this argument is so ridiculous. You are arguing over weeks. It's not about a week here or there, it is about what that life will develop into. Unless that chance is taken from it.
Which argument would that be? I haven't said, "Look at these pictures. Since you can't see a fetus, you should have an abortion." My only argument is that this is what it looks like at this point in the pregnancy and people should know the correct information. Are you trying to argue with either of those points? :?
You should know well enough by now that a lack of fetal development is not the basis of my pro-choice beliefs.
It doesn't matter what it looks like at any step along the way. The point is what it will become. So, I couldn't care less about your pictures.
scb:
-your 14 year old daughter scenario isn't relevant to what I am talking about, as that includes minors. that's a whole different ball of wax.
-yes, I do believe I deserve the courtesy of being told I created life. I believe every man deserves that courtesy.
-I KNOW I do half the rearing of our daughters, and also most of the housework and yardwork. No, I'm not including going to work everyday in that. My wife and I are a team, and we help each other out as much as we can.
-fine, I made a blanket statement after hers. Let's let that one go. It was just an emotional response to someone who (I gather) hates men, or at least has some sort of problem with them, and those women bother me. get therapy or get over it. case closed.
-yes, of course my feelings are relevant if the decision is being made together. that's what I've been saying. I would HOPE we are making the decision together. Just because she might be leaning towards abortion, does that just mean I should throw in the towel and say "ah,it's no use", or should I tell her how I feel and stand up for what I want in life? I vote the latter.
-yes, I do think the man should be able to voice his influence if he's the one that wants the abortion, but as in the reverse scenario, as I stated clearly, it is the woman's decision in the end.
- I think you are thinking of what you think should happen in your own situation and I am thinking about what actually happens more generally - and that includes minors, people who are not working as a team to make a decision together, etc.
- I didn't question whether YOU do half the childcare - in fact I acknowledged you for it right away. What I questioned was your assertion that you situation is typical for the MAJORITY of men.
- You know what bothers me? Men who accuse women of hating men whenever they call men out for not taking care of their responsibilities. (Or whenever they talk about abortion...) :roll:
- I'm still really trying to wrap my brain around what it means to involve the man in the decision when a woman already knows what she wants. What does it mean to "stand up for what you want"? If a woman who may or may not be your partner wants to have an abortion and you don't want her to, are you trying to convince her to do what you think is best rather than what she thinks is best? What is the objective? :?
well, every person and situation is different. I'd prefer to know. Maybe many other men wouldn't. But I would. End of story.
personally i would not want to know. but that is just me....in my past, i, like most men, have had one nighters like those that have been mentioned here, always with protection btw, but i would just not want to know....
I would like to request of all men that you please let us know as soon as you have sex with us whether you would want to know or not want to know if we got pregnant and had an abortion, and then also be sure to tell us if your desires change. I'm serious. Different men want different things and it's not really that obvious who wants what. So, for those of you who have an opinion in this, you should make it known.
When it comes to continuing the pregnancy, I think that's a different situation in lots of different ways.
I just went back and read it again. You were responding scb's point of not telling the guy ifshe was going to have an abortion, the first time I read it I read it as you not wanting to know either way. my bad.
sorry, gimme, I wasn't calling your character into question. I was just trying to clarify a point. my apologies if it offended you.
Just to be clear, I never said I wouldn't tell a guy if I was going to have an abortion! I said every situation is different and it's complicated.
ok, maybe I misunderstood your previous post. You said you wouldn't want to know. Let me clarify.....you wouldn't't want to know if she had an abortion, or you wouldn't want to know if she was pregnant, regardless what she was going to do?
i would not want to know if she had an abortion. i would rather not know she was pregnant in that case. if she were going to keep it i would want to know so i could be some sort of influence over the kid. just don't spring a surpise on me 10 years later, ya know?
no offense taken by the way, i was just trying to see what point you were trying to make.
Would you guys want to know if she had a miscarriage?
And this is why this argument is so ridiculous. You are arguing over weeks. It's not about a week here or there, it is about what that life will develop into. Unless that chance is taken from it.
Which argument would that be? I haven't said, "Look at these pictures. Since you can't see a fetus, you should have an abortion." My only argument is that this is what it looks like at this point in the pregnancy and people should know the correct information. Are you trying to argue with either of those points? :?
You should know well enough by now that a lack of fetal development is not the basis of my pro-choice beliefs.
It doesn't matter what it looks like at any step along the way. The point is what it will become. So, I couldn't care less about your pictures.
Well the pictures weren't for you anyway. They were for the people to whom it does matter.
A few people need to calm down and discuss without personal comments. If they can't do that, maybe a long timeout will help. There have been many warnings posted by Admin lately and the line is being crossed...patience is a virtue but it has run out.
Would you guys want to know if she had a miscarriage?
if i knew she was pregnant i would like to think that she would tell me that she miscarried. if i did not know she was pregnant i would not want to know. that is just me..
to me there is nothing worse than this...
woman- it is great to see you again after all these years....oh yeah, by the way, you were gonna be a dad..
me- really!? cool!!
woman- but i miscarried....
me- oh..... :(
talk about a double whammy of emotions... so i would rather not know...
"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
I would like to request of all men that you please let us know as soon as you have sex with us whether you would want to know or not want to know if we got pregnant and had an abortion, and then also be sure to tell us if your desires change. I'm serious. Different men want different things and it's not really that obvious who wants what. So, for those of you who have an opinion in this, you should make it known.
When it comes to continuing the pregnancy, I think that's a different situation in lots of different ways.
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
- I think you are thinking of what you think should happen in your own situation and I am thinking about what actually happens more generally - and that includes minors, people who are not working as a team to make a decision together, etc.
- I didn't question whether YOU do half the childcare - in fact I acknowledged you for it right away. What I questioned was your assertion that you situation is typical for the MAJORITY of men.
- You know what bothers me? Men who accuse women of hating men whenever they call men out for not taking care of their responsibilities. (Or whenever they talk about abortion...) :roll:
- I'm still really trying to wrap my brain around what it means to involve the man in the decision when a woman already knows what she wants. What does it mean to "stand up for what you want"? If a woman who may or may not be your partner wants to have an abortion and you don't want her to, are you trying to convince her to do what you think is best rather than what she thinks is best? What is the objective? :?
I already said I made a blanket statement in response to hers. I trust we don't need to address that again. I have my perception, and I voiced it. You voiced yours. Nothing further, your honour.
there's really nothing to wrap your head around. Have you never changed your mind about anything after hearing another perspective?
And it's not even necessarily about changing her mind. It's about discussing it as adults. I think I'm owed that much. I don't get why it's too much to ask to be civil in an awkward and potentially life-changing situation.
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
personally i would not want to know. but that is just me....in my past, i, like most men, have had one nighters like those that have been mentioned here, always with protection btw, but i would just not want to know....
I would like to request of all men that you please let us know as soon as you have sex with us whether you would want to know or not want to know if we got pregnant and had an abortion, and then also be sure to tell us if your desires change. I'm serious. Different men want different things and it's not really that obvious who wants what. So, for those of you who have an opinion in this, you should make it known.
When it comes to continuing the pregnancy, I think that's a different situation in lots of different ways.
You are perpetuating a problem. It's not a choice. If a man has sex with a woman and the woman becomes pregnant, the man has to know. The responsibility is equally his. My opinion.
exactly. let's all keep in mind that it's not even "if a man has sex with a woman", it's "if a man and a woman have sex with each other". equal responsibility should carry through the whole process, IMO.
exactly. let's all keep in mind that it's not even "if a man has sex with a woman", it's "if a man and a woman have sex with each other". equal responsibility should carry through the whole process, IMO.
I know you didn't. I just wanted to point out a seeming inequality in the perception of this matter. Not by you. By some. I just think it's important to not lay blame, when people say "he got her pregnant", that insinuates blame if the pregnancy is not wanted. I prefer "they got pregnant". You know. I know it's splitting hairs to some, but just sayin'.
exactly. let's all keep in mind that it's not even "if a man has sex with a woman", it's "if a man and a woman have sex with each other". equal responsibility should carry through the whole process, IMO.
- I'm still really trying to wrap my brain around what it means to involve the man in the decision when a woman already knows what she wants. What does it mean to "stand up for what you want"? If a woman who may or may not be your partner wants to have an abortion and you don't want her to, are you trying to convince her to do what you think is best rather than what she thinks is best? What is the objective? :?
there's really nothing to wrap your head around. Have you never changed your mind about anything after hearing another perspective?
And it's not even necessarily about changing her mind. It's about discussing it as adults. I think I'm owed that much. I don't get why it's too much to ask to be civil in an awkward and potentially life-changing situation.
Of course I've changed my mind before after hearing another perspective. But how is that relevant if it's not about changing her mind? :?
Again, it sounds like you just want to say your peace whether she makes your decisions or not, and I understand why you would feel that way - but if that's the case, I think it's more about you than the decision at hand. For lack of a better analogy, it seems kind of like when parents let their children believe they are part of the decision-making process just to make them feel good, when the child really doesn't get to make the decision.
Keep in mind that I'm not talking about women who are unsure of what to do and require your input to make their decision. There are plenty of women in that position who do consult their partners. I'm talking about women who already know what decision they think is best.
I'm happy that YOU have a situation where you can discuss things as adults and work as a team to make a decision and I think it's reasonable to want to be consulted. I just don't think your situation is generalizable and I don't think everyone who wants to be consulted should necessarily be consulted.
Comments
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
Your knowledge that not all men are assholes proves that not all men are assholes (which I'm not sure is what she was saying anyway). But it doesn't give you the authority to then turn around and make 3 blanket statements back to her:
1. She has no idea what she's talking about.
2. Her perspective has no basis in reality.
3. The situation she spoke of does not represent the majority.
All either of you know is that a lot of situations are like the one she described and a lot are like the one you described. Either could be in the majority, really, and it seems like each of you might (since we can't really speak for her) think the one you have experienced represents the majority but we don't really have any way of knowing since neither of you know most of the men in the world.
(Really, though? You think MORE THAN 50% of the men in society do a FULL 50% of the CHILDCARE work?? Think outside your several like-minded friends for a moment. Really?? :? Would the wives of these majority of men agree that they do fully half the work or is that just their perspective?? Because in all honesty, I know some men who think they do half the childcare work - which does include pregnancy, childbirth, and breastfeeding but doesn't include going to work to earn an income - and maybe a couple who actually do, but the majority of men I know don't even claim that they really do half the work. And that's just counting the good guys.)
Your feelings are really only relevant to the decision if you are making the decision together. But otherwise it just doesn't make sense to say you should be "involved" in the decision but she should have the final say. I mean, what does that mean and how would that work? You say, "I want you to have the baby" and she says, "No" and then that means you were involved in the decision? I mean, do you think the man's opinion should necessarily influence the woman's decision? Like, let's say your 14-year-old daughter got pregnant and was going to have an abortion. Do you think just because her boyfriend came along and said she should have the baby that she should change her mind or something? (Or vice versa. Should your little girl have an abortion just because some kid she slept with wants her to?) I'm just not getting how someone can be "involved" in a decision that has absolutely no room for compromise. I just don't think that's possible unless the woman is unsure what to do AND the man's feelings would change the outcome of the whole situation. That's not to say that there is never any room for a man's feelings on the subject - just, again that there is not necessarily always a place for them. And I'm not saying it wouldn't be ideal to let you state your case - just that it's kind of just all for show so your feelings don't get hurt to let you state your case if she knows it won't change her mind.
Also, do you feel the exact same way about the influence the man should have in the decision-making process if it's the other way around and the man wants the woman to have an abortion?
Yeah, sure, end of story on what you would want (in some situations, though it's different in others). But my point was that I don't think your use of language like "courtesy" and "deserve" is unique to your point of view. Some people deserve to be told; some people deserve to not be told - but a belief that you're deserving doesn't dictate what you're deserving of. And courtesy means different things to different people as well. So just because a woman doesn't tell a man, it doesn't' mean she's not being courteous, as I think has been implied.
I guess my whole point (with this tangential conversation) is that I think you make this whole "father's rights" thing out to be much more simple than it really is (as does the term "father's rights"). Every situation is unique, so I don't think there's any room for "should"s.
And this is why this argument is so ridiculous. You are arguing over weeks. It's not about a week here or there, it is about what that life will develop into. Unless that chance is taken from it.
Well put.
-your 14 year old daughter scenario isn't relevant to what I am talking about, as that includes minors. that's a whole different ball of wax.
-yes, I do believe I deserve the courtesy of being told I created life. I believe every man deserves that courtesy.
-I KNOW I do half the rearing of our daughters, and also most of the housework and yardwork. No, I'm not including going to work everyday in that. My wife and I are a team, and we help each other out as much as we can.
-fine, I made a blanket statement after hers. Let's let that one go. It was just an emotional response to someone who (I gather) hates men, or at least has some sort of problem with them, and those women bother me. get therapy or get over it. case closed.
-yes, of course my feelings are relevant if the decision is being made together. that's what I've been saying. I would HOPE we are making the decision together. Just because she might be leaning towards abortion, does that just mean I should throw in the towel and say "ah,it's no use", or should I tell her how I feel and stand up for what I want in life? I vote the latter.
-yes, I do think the man should be able to voice his influence if he's the one that wants the abortion, but as in the reverse scenario, as I stated clearly, it is the woman's decision in the end.
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
sorry, gimme, I wasn't calling your character into question. I was just trying to clarify a point. my apologies if it offended you.
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
I still have it 27 years later. It looks a lot like the picture there.
I've had an abortion at 16, a miscarriage and 2 children.
I am pro choice but against abortion.
Some might think that is contradictory but I believe in the right to choose
but hope life is chosen.
Life is never regretted. Abortions can be.
There are probably many who feel like me.
Consider choosing Life, no one said it would be easy
but there will be Love.
Which argument would that be? I haven't said, "Look at these pictures. Since you can't see a fetus, you should have an abortion." My only argument is that this is what it looks like at this point in the pregnancy and people should know the correct information. Are you trying to argue with either of those points? :?
You should know well enough by now that a lack of fetal development is not the basis of my pro-choice beliefs.
no offense taken by the way, i was just trying to see what point you were trying to make.
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
It doesn't matter what it looks like at any step along the way. The point is what it will become. So, I couldn't care less about your pictures.
- I think you are thinking of what you think should happen in your own situation and I am thinking about what actually happens more generally - and that includes minors, people who are not working as a team to make a decision together, etc.
- I didn't question whether YOU do half the childcare - in fact I acknowledged you for it right away. What I questioned was your assertion that you situation is typical for the MAJORITY of men.
- You know what bothers me? Men who accuse women of hating men whenever they call men out for not taking care of their responsibilities. (Or whenever they talk about abortion...) :roll:
- I'm still really trying to wrap my brain around what it means to involve the man in the decision when a woman already knows what she wants. What does it mean to "stand up for what you want"? If a woman who may or may not be your partner wants to have an abortion and you don't want her to, are you trying to convince her to do what you think is best rather than what she thinks is best? What is the objective? :?
I would like to request of all men that you please let us know as soon as you have sex with us whether you would want to know or not want to know if we got pregnant and had an abortion, and then also be sure to tell us if your desires change. I'm serious. Different men want different things and it's not really that obvious who wants what. So, for those of you who have an opinion in this, you should make it known.
When it comes to continuing the pregnancy, I think that's a different situation in lots of different ways.
Just to be clear, I never said I wouldn't tell a guy if I was going to have an abortion! I said every situation is different and it's complicated.
Would you guys want to know if she had a miscarriage?
Well the pictures weren't for you anyway. They were for the people to whom it does matter.
Admin
to me there is nothing worse than this...
woman- it is great to see you again after all these years....oh yeah, by the way, you were gonna be a dad..
me- really!? cool!!
woman- but i miscarried....
me- oh..... :(
talk about a double whammy of emotions... so i would rather not know...
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
I already said I made a blanket statement in response to hers. I trust we don't need to address that again. I have my perception, and I voiced it. You voiced yours. Nothing further, your honour.
there's really nothing to wrap your head around. Have you never changed your mind about anything after hearing another perspective?
And it's not even necessarily about changing her mind. It's about discussing it as adults. I think I'm owed that much. I don't get why it's too much to ask to be civil in an awkward and potentially life-changing situation.
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
You are perpetuating a problem. It's not a choice. If a man has sex with a woman and the woman becomes pregnant, the man has to know. The responsibility is equally his. My opinion.
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
Good point on the wording. Didn't mean anything by it, but yours is better.
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
Of course I've changed my mind before after hearing another perspective. But how is that relevant if it's not about changing her mind? :?
Again, it sounds like you just want to say your peace whether she makes your decisions or not, and I understand why you would feel that way - but if that's the case, I think it's more about you than the decision at hand. For lack of a better analogy, it seems kind of like when parents let their children believe they are part of the decision-making process just to make them feel good, when the child really doesn't get to make the decision.
Keep in mind that I'm not talking about women who are unsure of what to do and require your input to make their decision. There are plenty of women in that position who do consult their partners. I'm talking about women who already know what decision they think is best.
I'm happy that YOU have a situation where you can discuss things as adults and work as a team to make a decision and I think it's reasonable to want to be consulted. I just don't think your situation is generalizable and I don't think everyone who wants to be consulted should necessarily be consulted.