This is what an abortion looks like

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  • pandora
    pandora Posts: 21,855
    TriumphantAngel wrote:
    there's a link here that will show you many pictures of 1st trimester abortions. for an example you can click on a picture and it will show you what it looks like at 8 weeks. there are also pathologists medical authentications confirming the ages.

    a warning though, it's not a pretty sight, so please don't click on the link if you feel it may upset you.

    http://www.priestsforlife.org/resources ... /index.htm

    an abortion at 8 weeks.

    http://www.priestsforlife.org/resources ... 08w-04.jpg
    When I was pregnant with our boy, JB gave me a Peanut with a face drawn on it at eight weeks.
    I still have it 27 years later. It looks a lot like the picture there.
    I've had an abortion at 16, a miscarriage and 2 children.
    I am pro choice but against abortion.
    Some might think that is contradictory but I believe in the right to choose
    but hope life is chosen.
    Life is never regretted. Abortions can be.
    There are probably many who feel like me.
    Consider choosing Life, no one said it would be easy
    but there will be Love.
  • _
    _ Posts: 6,657
    cincybearcat wrote:
    scb wrote:
    Please see my post above about how your 8-week picture is really an 11-week picture.


    And this is why this argument is so ridiculous. You are arguing over weeks. It's not about a week here or there, it is about what that life will develop into. Unless that chance is taken from it.

    Which argument would that be? I haven't said, "Look at these pictures. Since you can't see a fetus, you should have an abortion." My only argument is that this is what it looks like at this point in the pregnancy and people should know the correct information. Are you trying to argue with either of those points? :?

    You should know well enough by now that a lack of fetal development is not the basis of my pro-choice beliefs.
  • gimmesometruth27
    gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 24,405
    Paul David wrote:
    ok, maybe I misunderstood your previous post. You said you wouldn't want to know. Let me clarify.....you wouldn't't want to know if she had an abortion, or you wouldn't want to know if she was pregnant, regardless what she was going to do?
    gimmesometruth27 wrote:
    Paul David wrote:
    what if a woman from your past called you up and said "you have a 10 year old son/daughter", would you be happy, or would you wish she never called?
    i would be angry that she never told me before. that is 10 years of not helping out with raising my child. what are you getting at???
    i would not want to know if she had an abortion. i would rather not know she was pregnant in that case. if she were going to keep it i would want to know so i could be some sort of influence over the kid. just don't spring a surpise on me 10 years later, ya know?

    no offense taken by the way, i was just trying to see what point you were trying to make. :)
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • cincybearcat
    cincybearcat Posts: 16,880
    scb wrote:
    cincybearcat wrote:
    scb wrote:
    Please see my post above about how your 8-week picture is really an 11-week picture.


    And this is why this argument is so ridiculous. You are arguing over weeks. It's not about a week here or there, it is about what that life will develop into. Unless that chance is taken from it.

    Which argument would that be? I haven't said, "Look at these pictures. Since you can't see a fetus, you should have an abortion." My only argument is that this is what it looks like at this point in the pregnancy and people should know the correct information. Are you trying to argue with either of those points? :?

    You should know well enough by now that a lack of fetal development is not the basis of my pro-choice beliefs.


    It doesn't matter what it looks like at any step along the way. The point is what it will become. So, I couldn't care less about your pictures.
    hippiemom = goodness
  • _
    _ Posts: 6,657
    Paul David wrote:
    scb:
    -your 14 year old daughter scenario isn't relevant to what I am talking about, as that includes minors. that's a whole different ball of wax.
    -yes, I do believe I deserve the courtesy of being told I created life. I believe every man deserves that courtesy.
    -I KNOW I do half the rearing of our daughters, and also most of the housework and yardwork. No, I'm not including going to work everyday in that. My wife and I are a team, and we help each other out as much as we can.
    -fine, I made a blanket statement after hers. Let's let that one go. It was just an emotional response to someone who (I gather) hates men, or at least has some sort of problem with them, and those women bother me. get therapy or get over it. case closed.
    -yes, of course my feelings are relevant if the decision is being made together. that's what I've been saying. I would HOPE we are making the decision together. Just because she might be leaning towards abortion, does that just mean I should throw in the towel and say "ah,it's no use", or should I tell her how I feel and stand up for what I want in life? I vote the latter.
    -yes, I do think the man should be able to voice his influence if he's the one that wants the abortion, but as in the reverse scenario, as I stated clearly, it is the woman's decision in the end.

    - I think you are thinking of what you think should happen in your own situation and I am thinking about what actually happens more generally - and that includes minors, people who are not working as a team to make a decision together, etc.

    - I didn't question whether YOU do half the childcare - in fact I acknowledged you for it right away. What I questioned was your assertion that you situation is typical for the MAJORITY of men.

    - You know what bothers me? Men who accuse women of hating men whenever they call men out for not taking care of their responsibilities. (Or whenever they talk about abortion...) :roll:

    - I'm still really trying to wrap my brain around what it means to involve the man in the decision when a woman already knows what she wants. What does it mean to "stand up for what you want"? If a woman who may or may not be your partner wants to have an abortion and you don't want her to, are you trying to convince her to do what you think is best rather than what she thinks is best? What is the objective? :?
  • _
    _ Posts: 6,657
    Paul David wrote:
    what if a woman from your past called you up and said "you have a 10 year old son/daughter", would you be happy, or would you wish she never called?

    gimmesometruth27 wrote:
    Paul David wrote:
    well, every person and situation is different. I'd prefer to know. Maybe many other men wouldn't. But I would. End of story.
    personally i would not want to know. but that is just me....in my past, i, like most men, have had one nighters like those that have been mentioned here, always with protection btw, but i would just not want to know....

    I would like to request of all men that you please let us know as soon as you have sex with us whether you would want to know or not want to know if we got pregnant and had an abortion, and then also be sure to tell us if your desires change. I'm serious. Different men want different things and it's not really that obvious who wants what. So, for those of you who have an opinion in this, you should make it known.

    When it comes to continuing the pregnancy, I think that's a different situation in lots of different ways.
  • _
    _ Posts: 6,657
    Paul David wrote:
    I just went back and read it again. You were responding scb's point of not telling the guy if she was going to have an abortion, the first time I read it I read it as you not wanting to know either way. my bad.

    sorry, gimme, I wasn't calling your character into question. I was just trying to clarify a point. my apologies if it offended you.

    Just to be clear, I never said I wouldn't tell a guy if I was going to have an abortion! I said every situation is different and it's complicated.
  • _
    _ Posts: 6,657
    gimmesometruth27 wrote:
    Paul David wrote:
    ok, maybe I misunderstood your previous post. You said you wouldn't want to know. Let me clarify.....you wouldn't't want to know if she had an abortion, or you wouldn't want to know if she was pregnant, regardless what she was going to do?
    i would not want to know if she had an abortion. i would rather not know she was pregnant in that case. if she were going to keep it i would want to know so i could be some sort of influence over the kid. just don't spring a surpise on me 10 years later, ya know?

    no offense taken by the way, i was just trying to see what point you were trying to make. :)

    Would you guys want to know if she had a miscarriage?
  • _
    _ Posts: 6,657
    cincybearcat wrote:
    scb wrote:
    cincybearcat wrote:
    And this is why this argument is so ridiculous. You are arguing over weeks. It's not about a week here or there, it is about what that life will develop into. Unless that chance is taken from it.

    Which argument would that be? I haven't said, "Look at these pictures. Since you can't see a fetus, you should have an abortion." My only argument is that this is what it looks like at this point in the pregnancy and people should know the correct information. Are you trying to argue with either of those points? :?

    You should know well enough by now that a lack of fetal development is not the basis of my pro-choice beliefs.


    It doesn't matter what it looks like at any step along the way. The point is what it will become. So, I couldn't care less about your pictures.

    Well the pictures weren't for you anyway. They were for the people to whom it does matter.
  • Kat
    Kat Posts: 4,973
    A few people need to calm down and discuss without personal comments. If they can't do that, maybe a long timeout will help. There have been many warnings posted by Admin lately and the line is being crossed...patience is a virtue but it has run out.

    Admin
    Falling down,...not staying down
  • nuffingman
    nuffingman Posts: 3,014
    scolding.jpg
  • gimmesometruth27
    gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 24,405
    scb wrote:

    Would you guys want to know if she had a miscarriage?
    if i knew she was pregnant i would like to think that she would tell me that she miscarried. if i did not know she was pregnant i would not want to know. that is just me..

    to me there is nothing worse than this...

    woman- it is great to see you again after all these years....oh yeah, by the way, you were gonna be a dad..

    me- really!? cool!!

    woman- but i miscarried....

    me- oh..... :(

    talk about a double whammy of emotions... so i would rather not know...
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • Hugh Freaking Dillon
    Hugh Freaking Dillon Posts: 14,010
    yes.
    scb wrote:

    Would you guys want to know if she had a miscarriage?
    Gimli 1993
    Fargo 2003
    Winnipeg 2005
    Winnipeg 2011
    St. Paul 2014
  • Hugh Freaking Dillon
    Hugh Freaking Dillon Posts: 14,010
    :lol:
    scb wrote:
    I would like to request of all men that you please let us know as soon as you have sex with us whether you would want to know or not want to know if we got pregnant and had an abortion, and then also be sure to tell us if your desires change. I'm serious. Different men want different things and it's not really that obvious who wants what. So, for those of you who have an opinion in this, you should make it known.

    When it comes to continuing the pregnancy, I think that's a different situation in lots of different ways.
    Gimli 1993
    Fargo 2003
    Winnipeg 2005
    Winnipeg 2011
    St. Paul 2014
  • Hugh Freaking Dillon
    Hugh Freaking Dillon Posts: 14,010
    scb wrote:

    - I think you are thinking of what you think should happen in your own situation and I am thinking about what actually happens more generally - and that includes minors, people who are not working as a team to make a decision together, etc.

    - I didn't question whether YOU do half the childcare - in fact I acknowledged you for it right away. What I questioned was your assertion that you situation is typical for the MAJORITY of men.

    - You know what bothers me? Men who accuse women of hating men whenever they call men out for not taking care of their responsibilities. (Or whenever they talk about abortion...) :roll:

    - I'm still really trying to wrap my brain around what it means to involve the man in the decision when a woman already knows what she wants. What does it mean to "stand up for what you want"? If a woman who may or may not be your partner wants to have an abortion and you don't want her to, are you trying to convince her to do what you think is best rather than what she thinks is best? What is the objective? :?

    I already said I made a blanket statement in response to hers. I trust we don't need to address that again. I have my perception, and I voiced it. You voiced yours. Nothing further, your honour. ;)

    there's really nothing to wrap your head around. Have you never changed your mind about anything after hearing another perspective?

    And it's not even necessarily about changing her mind. It's about discussing it as adults. I think I'm owed that much. I don't get why it's too much to ask to be civil in an awkward and potentially life-changing situation.
    Gimli 1993
    Fargo 2003
    Winnipeg 2005
    Winnipeg 2011
    St. Paul 2014
  • cincybearcat
    cincybearcat Posts: 16,880
    scb wrote:
    Paul David wrote:
    what if a woman from your past called you up and said "you have a 10 year old son/daughter", would you be happy, or would you wish she never called?

    gimmesometruth27 wrote:
    personally i would not want to know. but that is just me....in my past, i, like most men, have had one nighters like those that have been mentioned here, always with protection btw, but i would just not want to know....

    I would like to request of all men that you please let us know as soon as you have sex with us whether you would want to know or not want to know if we got pregnant and had an abortion, and then also be sure to tell us if your desires change. I'm serious. Different men want different things and it's not really that obvious who wants what. So, for those of you who have an opinion in this, you should make it known.

    When it comes to continuing the pregnancy, I think that's a different situation in lots of different ways.

    You are perpetuating a problem. It's not a choice. If a man has sex with a woman and the woman becomes pregnant, the man has to know. The responsibility is equally his. My opinion.
    hippiemom = goodness
  • Hugh Freaking Dillon
    Hugh Freaking Dillon Posts: 14,010
    exactly. let's all keep in mind that it's not even "if a man has sex with a woman", it's "if a man and a woman have sex with each other". equal responsibility should carry through the whole process, IMO.
    cincybearcat wrote:
    It's not a choice. If a man has sex with a woman and the woman becomes pregnant, the man has to know. The responsibility is equally his. My opinion.
    Gimli 1993
    Fargo 2003
    Winnipeg 2005
    Winnipeg 2011
    St. Paul 2014
  • cincybearcat
    cincybearcat Posts: 16,880
    Paul David wrote:
    exactly. let's all keep in mind that it's not even "if a man has sex with a woman", it's "if a man and a woman have sex with each other". equal responsibility should carry through the whole process, IMO.
    cincybearcat wrote:
    It's not a choice. If a man has sex with a woman and the woman becomes pregnant, the man has to know. The responsibility is equally his. My opinion.


    Good point on the wording. Didn't mean anything by it, but yours is better.
    hippiemom = goodness
  • Hugh Freaking Dillon
    Hugh Freaking Dillon Posts: 14,010
    I know you didn't. :) I just wanted to point out a seeming inequality in the perception of this matter. Not by you. By some. I just think it's important to not lay blame, when people say "he got her pregnant", that insinuates blame if the pregnancy is not wanted. I prefer "they got pregnant". You know. I know it's splitting hairs to some, but just sayin'. ;)
    cincybearcat wrote:
    Paul David wrote:
    exactly. let's all keep in mind that it's not even "if a man has sex with a woman", it's "if a man and a woman have sex with each other". equal responsibility should carry through the whole process, IMO.
    cincybearcat wrote:
    It's not a choice. If a man has sex with a woman and the woman becomes pregnant, the man has to know. The responsibility is equally his. My opinion.


    Good point on the wording. Didn't mean anything by it, but yours is better.
    Gimli 1993
    Fargo 2003
    Winnipeg 2005
    Winnipeg 2011
    St. Paul 2014
  • _
    _ Posts: 6,657
    Paul David wrote:
    scb wrote:
    - I'm still really trying to wrap my brain around what it means to involve the man in the decision when a woman already knows what she wants. What does it mean to "stand up for what you want"? If a woman who may or may not be your partner wants to have an abortion and you don't want her to, are you trying to convince her to do what you think is best rather than what she thinks is best? What is the objective? :?

    there's really nothing to wrap your head around. Have you never changed your mind about anything after hearing another perspective?

    And it's not even necessarily about changing her mind. It's about discussing it as adults. I think I'm owed that much. I don't get why it's too much to ask to be civil in an awkward and potentially life-changing situation.

    Of course I've changed my mind before after hearing another perspective. But how is that relevant if it's not about changing her mind? :?

    Again, it sounds like you just want to say your peace whether she makes your decisions or not, and I understand why you would feel that way - but if that's the case, I think it's more about you than the decision at hand. For lack of a better analogy, it seems kind of like when parents let their children believe they are part of the decision-making process just to make them feel good, when the child really doesn't get to make the decision.

    Keep in mind that I'm not talking about women who are unsure of what to do and require your input to make their decision. There are plenty of women in that position who do consult their partners. I'm talking about women who already know what decision they think is best.

    I'm happy that YOU have a situation where you can discuss things as adults and work as a team to make a decision and I think it's reasonable to want to be consulted. I just don't think your situation is generalizable and I don't think everyone who wants to be consulted should necessarily be consulted.

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