MOST abortions are at less than 9 weeks gestation. These are the first photographs I've ever found online of what is seen when abortion is performed at less than 9 weeks. If I could find more, I would post them. My point is to show what it really looks like at the stage that MOST abortions occur. My position about how late they should be ALLOWED to occur is not relevant to when they actually DO occur.
Do abortions occur when the fetus is more developed? Yes. But when your sister or girlfriend or daughter has an abortion, chances are that is NOT the kind of abortion they are having - yet people associate those images with early abortions. I just think people should have the opportunity to associate accurate images with the abortions that are most likely occurring around them.
So... are you uncomfortable showing the photos of later abortions? I mean, people might actually answer your "please identify the person in these photographs" question then. Abortions are allowed until later terms than 9 weeks, and there are photos of them... so, clearly they DO occur. I'm not saying they are most, but they are significant enough to discuss, especially when you pose a loaded question of "please identify the person in these photographs".
Of course I'm not uncomfortable posting pictures of late abortions - but I suspect that the mods might be uncomfortable with it. I'm not really clear what part of "Here's what EARLY abortions look like" or "identify the person in THESE photographs" you don't understand. Are you really incapable of acknowledging that most abortions don't look anything like the very few late term abortions with which you seem to be so obsessed?? :?
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
Of course I'm not uncomfortable posting pictures of late abortions - but I suspect that the mods might be uncomfortable with it. I'm not really clear what part of "Here's what EARLY abortions look like" or "identify the person in THESE photographs" you don't understand. Are you really incapable of acknowledging that most abortions don't look anything like the very few late term abortions with which you seem to be so obsessed?? :?
Nope. I am capable of acknowledging that most abortions are not late term abortions.
Your thread is titled "This is what an abortion looks like". I thought you would be more concise showing a well rounded photos of exactly that. What you did instead was choose a very specific type of photo which shows exclusively the earliest abortions, and exclusively photos which indeed look like the yolk of an egg. Your objective seems clear - show that abortions look like nothing resembling humans. ...but your photo was carefully chosen to be a photo which looks like nothing.
If you changed the title of your thread to be less misleading, and maybe "This is what an early abortion looks like", I wouldn't be asking for you to post more well rounded group of photos. But as of now, your thread title has no qualifier, yet the photos have a very specific one.
The highest spike in abortions are in the 9-10 week mark (weeks ahead of the photos you are posting) with a still significant number up to the 20 week mark. I'm sure there are abortions after the 20 week mark but those I think all would consider few and far between. After the 20 week mark, the number diminishes significantly.
...so, I suppose I'll specify, are you comfortable posting photos of abortions from week 1 to week 20, as those are the vast majority of abortions? Because that would be more in line with the thread title.
ADD 5,200 to the post count you see, thank you.
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I think his point is that your argument seems incomplete. You can't argue for pro-choice by only stating PART of what happens.
It's like saying you are pro death penalty because MOST people executed are guilty.
But I'm not arguing any position in this thread. I'm just showing what most abortions look like. Trust me when I say I have made very complete pro-choice arguments in many different threads, ad nauseum, for years - and this (in this thread) is not me defending the pro-choice position. (He, on the other hand, seems to ignore 99.93% of abortions to focus on the sensationalism of the 0.07% of late-term abortions in the U.S.) If anyone would like to argue the pro-choice position as a whole, I'd be happy to do that in another thread. But this thread is about what early abortions look like, since they are representative of most abortions in this country.
What I'll never understand about people advocating for "choice" is this: how about choosing not to have sex? People act like babies just magically appear and "Oh well, people gotta be able to choose an abortion!". Why not be a responsible adult and make your "choice" earlier? Wow there's a concept. If you aren't at least moderately comfortable with the idea of having a child don't have sex. It's that simple.
Even if you don't think a 5 week old fetus counts as "life" isn't abortion still an ugly, messy, painful, expensive & morally dubious thing? Don't put yourself in that position.
So this life is sacrifice...
6/30/98 Minneapolis, 10/8/00 East Troy (Brrrr!), 6/16/03 St. Paul, 6/27/06 St. Paul
Please show it to us in the picture then. Or are you suggesting the people taking the photograph took out the embryo and left everything else in just to be deceitful? :?
I don't know, you tell me. This one is around 6 Weeks.
It is hardly a spec, and can easily be seen with the naked eye. It's basic Anatomy. If you have even a small amount of schooling in Anatomy and Physiology, the first thing that pops in your head when you read your original post is "bullshit". There's much more to it at that phase of the pregnancy than what is being represented.
because humans, by and large, are stupid. we have instincts, which many times override common sense, and my instinct tells me to have sex at all times at any cost. just ask my wife.
What I'll never understand about people advocating for "choice" is this: how about choosing not to have sex? People act like babies just magically appear and "Oh well, people gotta be able to choose an abortion!". Why not be a responsible adult and make your "choice" earlier? Wow there's a concept. If you aren't at least moderately comfortable with the idea of having a child don't have sex. It's that simple.
Even if you don't think a 5 week old fetus counts as "life" isn't abortion still an ugly, messy, painful, expensive & morally dubious thing? Don't put yourself in that position.
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
What I'll never understand about people advocating for "choice" is this: how about choosing not to have sex? People act like babies just magically appear and "Oh well, people gotta be able to choose an abortion!". Why not be a responsible adult and make your "choice" earlier? Wow there's a concept. If you aren't at least moderately comfortable with the idea of having a child don't have sex. It's that simple.
Even if you don't think a 5 week old fetus counts as "life" isn't abortion still an ugly, messy, painful, expensive & morally dubious thing? Don't put yourself in that position.
i'm an adult, i've been in love and if i want to have sex with my lady i am going to have sex. see, i can be as obtuse and black and white as everyone else...the fact is you are arguing with a very simple mentality and it takes no other variables into consideration.
now i am going to go on a rant....
the fact is, you can have an opinion on abortion, but you should not be allowed to force that opinion on any women. how would you feel if you were forced to have a vasectomy for example, or how about you get forced to donate an organ because i think it is the right thing to do? see, i can't project my beliefs onto you or legislate what you do with your body, so you can't do it to anyone else.
the fact is that this is over 99% of abortions and when they occur. yes pictures of late term abortions are ugly, but as someone said earlier, why sensationalize the 1%? it is like giving free press and publicity to that douchebag pastor to a flock of 35 people who is about to burn a koran...
rant over....
"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
the fact is, you can have an opinion on abortion, but you should not be allowed to force that opinion on any women.
First of all, for me at least, it's not about telling a woman what she can do with her body, it's about protecting the body of another that happens to be inside the body of the woman.
Secondly, we as a society continue to diminish the rights of fathers. I believe this also contributes to men feeling no responsibility and leaving their seed wherever and whenever. Society keeps telling men that they don't matter on this topic, of course, their $ still matters.
So, personally, I believe it is 100% ok for a man to have an opinion on this topic. In fact, they should have an opinion.
Of course I'm not uncomfortable posting pictures of late abortions - but I suspect that the mods might be uncomfortable with it. I'm not really clear what part of "Here's what EARLY abortions look like" or "identify the person in THESE photographs" you don't understand. Are you really incapable of acknowledging that most abortions don't look anything like the very few late term abortions with which you seem to be so obsessed?? :?
Nope. I am capable of acknowledging that most abortions are not late term abortions.
Your thread is titled "This is what an abortion looks like". I thought you would be more concise showing a well rounded photos of exactly that. What you did instead was choose a very specific type of photo which shows exclusively the earliest abortions, and exclusively photos which indeed look like the yolk of an egg. Your objective seems clear - show that abortions look like nothing resembling humans. ...but your photo was carefully chosen to be a photo which looks like nothing.
If you changed the title of your thread to be less misleading, and maybe "This is what an early abortion looks like", I wouldn't be asking for you to post more well rounded group of photos. But as of now, your thread title has no qualifier, yet the photos have a very specific one.
The highest spike in abortions are in the 9-10 week mark (weeks ahead of the photos you are posting) with a still significant number up to the 20 week mark. I'm sure there are abortions after the 20 week mark but those I think all would consider few and far between. After the 20 week mark, the number diminishes significantly.
...so, I suppose I'll specify, are you comfortable posting photos of abortions from week 1 to week 20, as those are the vast majority of abortions? Because that would be more in line with the thread title.
Dude, your inability to understand the singular form of the noun "AN abortion" does not not make my thread title misleading. It doesn't say this is what ALL abortionS look like. It says an - singular - abortion. I provided pictures of a particular gestational age of abortion - the only real pictures I can find of any early abortions, which represent MOST abortions in this country.
Regarding posting photos that look like nothing, that's what it looks like. I didn't photoshop the pictures or something. My objective is to provide accurate representations; you can decide for yourself whether it looks like a person.
Here's what the CDC says in the article referenced by the Wikipedia link you posted:
27.9% - 6 weeks or less
32.7% - 7-8 weeks
17.1% - 9-10 weeks
9.1% - 11-12 weeks
6.3% - 13-15 weeks (note how this is 3 weeks now, not 2)
3.7% - 16-20 weeks (note how this is 4 weeks)
1.9% - 21 weeks
Let's say this data is accurate (there is more accurate data available, if you're interested). The highest spike in abortions is not at the 9-10 week mark, as you said, but at the 7-8 week mark - the 7-week mark in particular (17.8%) - the same age as the 2nd photo I posted. In fact there are more abortions at 7 weeks alone than at 9 & 10 weeks combined. And, while I am comfortable posting pictures of abortions from 1 to 40 weeks if you like, I would say you're misrepresenting the facts when you say the vast majority of abortions occur at up to 20 weeks, when in reality 88% (or 86.8%, if you use this data) of abortions occur at less than 12 weeks - and still the majority occur at 8 weeks or less. So I'd say my pictures fit my thread title just fine.
What I'll never understand about people advocating for "choice" is this: how about choosing not to have sex? People act like babies just magically appear and "Oh well, people gotta be able to choose an abortion!". Why not be a responsible adult and make your "choice" earlier? Wow there's a concept. If you aren't at least moderately comfortable with the idea of having a child don't have sex. It's that simple.
Even if you don't think a 5 week old fetus counts as "life" isn't abortion still an ugly, messy, painful, expensive & morally dubious thing? Don't put yourself in that position.
It's a lot more complicated than that. But that's a topic for another thread.
So I'd say my pictures fit my thread title just fine.
I think you are both right. Your picture depicts "an abortion"...
I can also see that it could infer that all abortions look like that.
It doesn't really matter, because I know what it would look like if the abortion never happened. To me, it's awfully sad to think about the lost life and lost opportunity.
Please show it to us in the picture then. Or are you suggesting the people taking the photograph took out the embryo and left everything else in just to be deceitful? :?
I don't know, you tell me. This one is around 6 Weeks.
It is hardly a spec, and can easily be seen with the naked eye. It's basic Anatomy. If you have even a small amount of schooling in Anatomy and Physiology, the first thing that pops in your head when you read your original post is "bullshit". There's much more to it at that phase of the pregnancy than what is being represented.
Care to source that picture? I call bullshit on that one. Either that or you don't understand basic pregnancy dating. (See, two can play that "if you have even a small amount of schooling" game. :roll: ) You can quote my initial post for the sources of my pictures, but that doesn't work for yours.
Again - you didn't answer my question - can you show us the embryo in the photos I posted of what comes out of the uterus during an abortion or are you accusing the photographer of doctoring the pictures??
The bottom line is: Someone did an abortion and snapped a picture of what came out. For whoever actually wants to know what it looks like at that gestational age, there you have it. Take it how you want to. But at least it's an accurate representation (which is something I can personally attest to, regardless of how many anatomy classes you've had).
Please show it to us in the picture then. Or are you suggesting the people taking the photograph took out the embryo and left everything else in just to be deceitful? :?
I don't know, you tell me. This one is around 6 Weeks.
It is hardly a spec, and can easily be seen with the naked eye. It's basic Anatomy. If you have even a small amount of schooling in Anatomy and Physiology, the first thing that pops in your head when you read your original post is "bullshit". There's much more to it at that phase of the pregnancy than what is being represented.
Care to source that picture? I call bullshit on that one.
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
For all of you who think having an abortion necessarily kills a person, please identify the person in these photographs
I could see how my position comes out, but it wasn't my intention to argue one way or the other. I just wanted to point out that there is no identifiable person at that point because I think most people have huge misperceptions about what abortions look like (and how complicated they are). Like I said in my initial post, people can be against abortion all they want (in this thread ) - I just want their opinions to be formed based on good information and I thought these pictures provided a good opportunity to show what people usually never get to see.
I agree with you cincy (on point #2), but forgive me, gimme, if I speak for you incorrectly, but I don't think he was saying that a woman's opinion trumps that of a man's, he meant a woman's as opposed to society's.
the fact is, you can have an opinion on abortion, but you should not be allowed to force that opinion on any women.
First of all, for me at least, it's not about telling a woman what she can do with her body, it's about protecting the body of another that happens to be inside the body of the woman.
Secondly, we as a society continue to diminish the rights of fathers. I believe this also contributes to men feeling no responsibility and leaving their seed wherever and whenever. Society keeps telling men that they don't matter on this topic, of course, their $ still matters.
So, personally, I believe it is 100% ok for a man to have an opinion on this topic. In fact, they should have an opinion.
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
because humans, by and large, are stupid. we have instincts, which many times override common sense, and my instinct tells me to have sex at all times at any cost. just ask my wife.
What I'll never understand about people advocating for "choice" is this: how about choosing not to have sex? People act like babies just magically appear and "Oh well, people gotta be able to choose an abortion!". Why not be a responsible adult and make your "choice" earlier? Wow there's a concept. If you aren't at least moderately comfortable with the idea of having a child don't have sex. It's that simple.
Even if you don't think a 5 week old fetus counts as "life" isn't abortion still an ugly, messy, painful, expensive & morally dubious thing? Don't put yourself in that position.
You are exactly right: people are stupid. Do people get less stupid or more stupid when they are continually presented with options to bail them out of their stupidity? If you really can't control yourself their are plenty of avenues to let off sexual desire that won't risk pregnancy. Use those. Sex at it's most basic, natural, scientific level is an act of procreation. So memo to stupid people: don't be shocked if pregnancy is the result of your having sex. Make your choice early and save yourself anguish.
So this life is sacrifice...
6/30/98 Minneapolis, 10/8/00 East Troy (Brrrr!), 6/16/03 St. Paul, 6/27/06 St. Paul
because humans, by and large, are stupid. we have instincts, which many times override common sense, and my instinct tells me to have sex at all times at any cost. just ask my wife.
What I'll never understand about people advocating for "choice" is this: how about choosing not to have sex? People act like babies just magically appear and "Oh well, people gotta be able to choose an abortion!". Why not be a responsible adult and make your "choice" earlier? Wow there's a concept. If you aren't at least moderately comfortable with the idea of having a child don't have sex. It's that simple.
Even if you don't think a 5 week old fetus counts as "life" isn't abortion still an ugly, messy, painful, expensive & morally dubious thing? Don't put yourself in that position.
You are exactly right: people are stupid. Do people get less stupid or more stupid when they are continually presented with options to bail them out of their stupidity? If you really can't control yourself their are plenty of avenues to let off sexual desire that won't risk pregnancy. Use those. Sex at it's most basic, natural, scientific level is an act of procreation. So memo to stupid people: don't be shocked if pregnancy is the result of your having sex. Make your choice early and save yourself anguish.
I can't help but wonder if you consider yourself to be less stupid than these people of whom you speak. :?:
I agree with you cincy (on point #2), but forgive me, gimme, if I speak for you incorrectly, but I don't think he was saying that a woman's opinion trumps that of a man's, he meant a woman's as opposed to society's.
the fact is, you can have an opinion on abortion, but you should not be allowed to force that opinion on any women.
First of all, for me at least, it's not about telling a woman what she can do with her body, it's about protecting the body of another that happens to be inside the body of the woman.
Secondly, we as a society continue to diminish the rights of fathers. I believe this also contributes to men feeling no responsibility and leaving their seed wherever and whenever. Society keeps telling men that they don't matter on this topic, of course, their $ still matters.
So, personally, I believe it is 100% ok for a man to have an opinion on this topic. In fact, they should have an opinion.
my point is exactly as i stated. a man can have an opinion on it, but he can never force that opinion onto a woman or all women by blocking access to and protesting and even blowing up a women's health center, and a man should never legislate their opinion onto all women, like overturning roe v. wade...my primary concern is for the woman, not the collection of cells living like a parasite inside of her. it is her right to choose happens to and inside of her own body. not anybody else's...
nobody answered my questions about what if that pile of cellular goo was the result of incest or abortion...
"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
nobody answered my questions about what if that pile of cellular goo was the result of incest or abortion...
I've answered it a hundred times. That is a difficult one to answer unless you face it personally, but since I believe it is a child, I am against abortion in those cases (I think you meant rape or incest). I would need to do some more research on how carrying that child through pregnancy might affect a woman's health though.
I'm not really sure why you'd expect answers to a question where you refer to it as "cellular goo". Seems to me people are really just looking to pick fights on this topic yet again instead of actually discussing it.
Dude, your inability to understand the singular form of the noun "AN abortion" does not not make my thread title misleading. It doesn't say this is what ALL abortionS look like. It says an - singular - abortion. I provided pictures of a particular gestational age of abortion - the only real pictures I can find of any early abortions, which represent MOST abortions in this country.
Regarding posting photos that look like nothing, that's what it looks like. I didn't photoshop the pictures or something. My objective is to provide accurate representations; you can decide for yourself whether it looks like a person.
Good! I'd like you to accomplish your objective to provide accurate representations (plural, not singular, as you yourself wrote), and not just cherry-pick the low-lying fruit of the least controversial abortion image you can find. Unless by "provide accurate representations" you meant "provide accurate representation of only photos which are the least controversial stage of abortion". But it's your thread, so provide or omit whatever info you deem appropriate for your point.
The earlier abortions have less people against them than the ones where the body is more fully formed... they are less in number, sure, but they still occur in significant numbers, would you agree? With showing just this earliest stage abortion it's like your running around going "see, this photo doesn't look like a person, see..." without showing the ones that would give a more objectionable response, and I don't think it gains any points for your position.
...and you are perhaps right about the data. I did not have time completely review and digest, and I may have misunderstood the data. I appreciate any accurate correction you made on that end.
ADD 5,200 to the post count you see, thank you.
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Dude, your inability to understand the singular form of the noun "AN abortion" does not not make my thread title misleading. It doesn't say this is what ALL abortionS look like. It says an - singular - abortion. I provided pictures of a particular gestational age of abortion - the only real pictures I can find of any early abortions, which represent MOST abortions in this country.
Regarding posting photos that look like nothing, that's what it looks like. I didn't photoshop the pictures or something. My objective is to provide accurate representations; you can decide for yourself whether it looks like a person.
Good! I'd like you to accomplish your objective to provide accurate representations (plural, not singular, as you yourself wrote), and not just cherry-pick the low-lying fruit of the least controversial abortion image you can find. Unless by "provide accurate representations" you meant "provide accurate representation of only photos which are the least controversial stage of abortion". But it's your thread, so provide or omit whatever info you deem appropriate for your point.
The earlier abortions have less people against them than the ones where the body is more fully formed... they are less in number, sure, but they still occur in significant numbers, would you agree? With showing just this earliest stage abortion it's like your running around going "see, this photo doesn't look like a person, see..." without showing the ones that would give a more objectionable response, and I don't think it gains any points for your position.
...and you are perhaps right about the data. I did not have time completely review and digest, and I may have misunderstood the data. I appreciate any accurate correction you made on that end.
how about you posting pics? you seem to want to see them so badly, why don't you look for them and post them here? she said that most abortions are carried out in this time frame that she showed in the original pics. what more do you want? do you want to see pics of a rare 3rd trimester abortion? if so you can go down to your local planned parenthood and look at the protestor's signs and see what you want to see...
"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
nobody answered my questions about what if that pile of cellular goo was the result of incest or abortion...
I've answered it a hundred times. That is a difficult one to answer unless you face it personally, but since I believe it is a child, I am against abortion in those cases (I think you meant rape or incest). I would need to do some more research on how carrying that child through pregnancy might affect a woman's health though.
I'm not really sure why you'd expect answers to a question where you refer to it as "cellular goo". Seems to me people are really just looking to pick fights on this topic yet again instead of actually discussing it.
fair enough. you see it like that, i see it as that thing is not born and it can not survive on its own without being in the womb fullterm, and being born...and at that timeframe where the pictures were taken, if it were extracted from the mother it will not survive and develop even if it is put on a machine.
"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
Dude, your inability to understand the singular form of the noun "AN abortion" does not not make my thread title misleading. It doesn't say this is what ALL abortionS look like. It says an - singular - abortion. I provided pictures of a particular gestational age of abortion - the only real pictures I can find of any early abortions, which represent MOST abortions in this country.
Regarding posting photos that look like nothing, that's what it looks like. I didn't photoshop the pictures or something. My objective is to provide accurate representations; you can decide for yourself whether it looks like a person.
Good! I'd like you to accomplish your objective to provide accurate representations (plural, not singular, as you yourself wrote), and not just cherry-pick the low-lying fruit of the least controversial abortion image you can find. Unless by "provide accurate representations" you meant "provide accurate representation of only photos which are the least controversial stage of abortion". But it's your thread, so provide or omit whatever info you deem appropriate for your point.
The earlier abortions have less people against them than the ones where the body is more fully formed... they are less in number, sure, but they still occur in significant numbers, would you agree? With showing just this earliest stage abortion it's like your running around going "see, this photo doesn't look like a person, see..." without showing the ones that would give a more objectionable response, and I don't think it gains any points for your position.
...and you are perhaps right about the data. I did not have time completely review and digest, and I may have misunderstood the data. I appreciate any accurate correction you made on that end.
:roll: I provided accurate representationS - plural. There were two of them. I'd hardly say I've picked the low-lying fruit of abortion representations though. It took me years to find a single set of early abortion pictures online; the others are everywhere.
And that's just the point - there is no need to post pictures of later abortions because everyone has seen them. Have you not seen them? If there's anyone here who hasn't seen them, can't they just Google "abortion" and find them everywhere? (That's not to say that all those anti-abortion pictures are exactly accurate, by the way, but I'm sure they make the point you're trying to make.) The reason I posted these is because they are not readily available and most people don't have the opportunity to see them. Had you ever seen this - in pictures or in person?
The pictures I posted are merely a response to the other pictures that people usually reference when referring to abortion. They hold up (supposedly) third-trimester abortion pictures and tell women having 6-week abortions that the pictures represent her abortion. I'm here to say they do not - and now we have the ability to accurately represent her (and most women's) abortion. If someone wants to know what her late abortion looks like, I think she should be shown a picture of a late abortion. I'm not shy. But if she's having an early abortion, here are the pictures she should be shown. If nothing else, I know there are many women on this board who have had abortions (and men whose partners have had them) but have never seen what it really looked like at their gestational age and instead have misinformed images in their heads. This is an opportunity for those women whose abortions occurred at this stage in the pregnancy to see the truth of the matter.
I don't know why you keep trying to bait me into posting more graphic photos anyway. You know the reason I'm not posting them: I would probably get banned. Why don't you go ahead and post them if you think it's so important?? All I ask is that your pictures are accurate and representative portrayals of abortion at the gestational age you claim to represent.
You know it wouldn't bother me or change my perspective. I've never tried to deny that fetuses resemble babies in the later stages of development. I've never acted like late-term abortions aren't disturbing on some level. I've only said that they don't represent most abortions, that I think a woman has a right to choose what happens in her own body, that I don't believe a fetus becomes a person until it is born, and that people who have late abortions usually have good reasons - and most particularly that it's not for you or me or anyone else to judge. Posting a picture of something that resembles a dead baby - no matter how sensational & emotion-inspiring it is - does not change any of the things I just listed.
It's a shame that you feel the need to resort to such tactics, but go ahead if you think it's necessary to prove your point. We'll all be waiting.
Dude, your inability to understand the singular form of the noun "AN abortion" does not not make my thread title misleading. It doesn't say this is what ALL abortionS look like. It says an - singular - abortion. I provided pictures of a particular gestational age of abortion - the only real pictures I can find of any early abortions, which represent MOST abortions in this country.
Regarding posting photos that look like nothing, that's what it looks like. I didn't photoshop the pictures or something. My objective is to provide accurate representations; you can decide for yourself whether it looks like a person.
Good! I'd like you to accomplish your objective to provide accurate representations (plural, not singular, as you yourself wrote), and not just cherry-pick the low-lying fruit of the least controversial abortion image you can find. Unless by "provide accurate representations" you meant "provide accurate representation of only photos which are the least controversial stage of abortion". But it's your thread, so provide or omit whatever info you deem appropriate for your point.
The earlier abortions have less people against them than the ones where the body is more fully formed... they are less in number, sure, but they still occur in significant numbers, would you agree? With showing just this earliest stage abortion it's like your running around going "see, this photo doesn't look like a person, see..." without showing the ones that would give a more objectionable response, and I don't think it gains any points for your position.
...and you are perhaps right about the data. I did not have time completely review and digest, and I may have misunderstood the data. I appreciate any accurate correction you made on that end.
If you feel the need to see the pictures, then why don't you just post them? I think most of know how disturbing a dead developed fetus looks. SCB was perfectly clear on her post and on her clarifications. Your redundant comment(s) are becoming spam.....
take the abortion debate somewhere else-
scb is clearly baiting people in this thread, and posting non-disturbing images to prove her point. Since photos which may counter her "For all of you who think having an abortion necessarily kills a person, please identify the person in these photographs" post are not allowed on the board, it's a convenient way to stifle the discussion, since only photos which support her angle are allowed on the board. That's what I'm getting at. Sorry a few of you couldn't recognize the point.
ADD 5,200 to the post count you see, thank you.
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there's a link here that will show you many pictures of 1st trimester abortions. for an example you can click on a picture and it will show you what it looks like at 8 weeks. there are also pathologists medical authentications confirming the ages.
a warning though, it's not a pretty sight, so please don't click on the link if you feel it may upset you.
scb is clearly baiting people in this thread, and posting non-disturbing images to prove her point. Since photos which may counter her "For all of you who think having an abortion necessarily kills a person, please identify the person in these photographs" post are not allowed on the board, it's a convenient way to stifle the discussion, since only photos which support her angle are allowed on the board. That's what I'm getting at. Sorry a few of you couldn't recognize the point.
well i didn't post pictures, i put a link with a warning so i hope that's ok. i guess the mods will delete it if it's not ok.
one of the links i posted was for an abortion carried out at 8 weeks. as scb said in her original post that "The majority of abortions occur at less than 9 weeks of pregnancy (in the United States)." , i thought it was relevant.
again, i have absolutely no intention of offending anyone and if my links are not ok, the mods can delete them.
scb is clearly baiting people in this thread, and posting non-disturbing images to prove her point. Since photos which may counter her "For all of you who think having an abortion necessarily kills a person, please identify the person in these photographs" post are not allowed on the board, it's a convenient way to stifle the discussion, since only photos which support her angle are allowed on the board. That's what I'm getting at. Sorry a few of you couldn't recognize the point.
i figured out long ago the scb does nothing but bait people!!! Thank you Godfather!!! for pointing that out. This is why i ignore her, she's not intrested in debate or your opinion, just in being right, typical scarred women. i don't know who hurt you scb, but not every man out there is responsible.
Comments
It's like saying you are pro death penalty because MOST people executed are guilty.
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
Nope. I am capable of acknowledging that most abortions are not late term abortions.
Your thread is titled "This is what an abortion looks like". I thought you would be more concise showing a well rounded photos of exactly that. What you did instead was choose a very specific type of photo which shows exclusively the earliest abortions, and exclusively photos which indeed look like the yolk of an egg. Your objective seems clear - show that abortions look like nothing resembling humans. ...but your photo was carefully chosen to be a photo which looks like nothing.
If you changed the title of your thread to be less misleading, and maybe "This is what an early abortion looks like", I wouldn't be asking for you to post more well rounded group of photos. But as of now, your thread title has no qualifier, yet the photos have a very specific one.
Here's a chart for you and viewers of this thread. I'm trusting wikipedia, as I have not personally done field research on the subject.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:US_ab ... togram.svg
The highest spike in abortions are in the 9-10 week mark (weeks ahead of the photos you are posting) with a still significant number up to the 20 week mark. I'm sure there are abortions after the 20 week mark but those I think all would consider few and far between. After the 20 week mark, the number diminishes significantly.
...so, I suppose I'll specify, are you comfortable posting photos of abortions from week 1 to week 20, as those are the vast majority of abortions? Because that would be more in line with the thread title.
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But I'm not arguing any position in this thread. I'm just showing what most abortions look like. Trust me when I say I have made very complete pro-choice arguments in many different threads, ad nauseum, for years - and this (in this thread) is not me defending the pro-choice position. (He, on the other hand, seems to ignore 99.93% of abortions to focus on the sensationalism of the 0.07% of late-term abortions in the U.S.) If anyone would like to argue the pro-choice position as a whole, I'd be happy to do that in another thread. But this thread is about what early abortions look like, since they are representative of most abortions in this country.
Even if you don't think a 5 week old fetus counts as "life" isn't abortion still an ugly, messy, painful, expensive & morally dubious thing? Don't put yourself in that position.
6/30/98 Minneapolis, 10/8/00 East Troy (Brrrr!), 6/16/03 St. Paul, 6/27/06 St. Paul
I don't know, you tell me. This one is around 6 Weeks.
It is hardly a spec, and can easily be seen with the naked eye. It's basic Anatomy. If you have even a small amount of schooling in Anatomy and Physiology, the first thing that pops in your head when you read your original post is "bullshit". There's much more to it at that phase of the pregnancy than what is being represented.
I would say this is arguing a position:
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
now i am going to go on a rant....
the fact is, you can have an opinion on abortion, but you should not be allowed to force that opinion on any women. how would you feel if you were forced to have a vasectomy for example, or how about you get forced to donate an organ because i think it is the right thing to do? see, i can't project my beliefs onto you or legislate what you do with your body, so you can't do it to anyone else.
the fact is that this is over 99% of abortions and when they occur. yes pictures of late term abortions are ugly, but as someone said earlier, why sensationalize the 1%? it is like giving free press and publicity to that douchebag pastor to a flock of 35 people who is about to burn a koran...
rant over....
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
First of all, for me at least, it's not about telling a woman what she can do with her body, it's about protecting the body of another that happens to be inside the body of the woman.
Secondly, we as a society continue to diminish the rights of fathers. I believe this also contributes to men feeling no responsibility and leaving their seed wherever and whenever. Society keeps telling men that they don't matter on this topic, of course, their $ still matters.
So, personally, I believe it is 100% ok for a man to have an opinion on this topic. In fact, they should have an opinion.
Dude, your inability to understand the singular form of the noun "AN abortion" does not not make my thread title misleading. It doesn't say this is what ALL abortionS look like. It says an - singular - abortion. I provided pictures of a particular gestational age of abortion - the only real pictures I can find of any early abortions, which represent MOST abortions in this country.
Regarding posting photos that look like nothing, that's what it looks like. I didn't photoshop the pictures or something. My objective is to provide accurate representations; you can decide for yourself whether it looks like a person.
As for your Wikipedia chart.... you should read the actual data referenced:
http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtm ... 1.htm#tab6
(Besides, I don't think you're reading the chart correctly.)
Here's what the CDC says in the article referenced by the Wikipedia link you posted:
27.9% - 6 weeks or less
32.7% - 7-8 weeks
17.1% - 9-10 weeks
9.1% - 11-12 weeks
6.3% - 13-15 weeks (note how this is 3 weeks now, not 2)
3.7% - 16-20 weeks (note how this is 4 weeks)
1.9% - 21 weeks
Let's say this data is accurate (there is more accurate data available, if you're interested). The highest spike in abortions is not at the 9-10 week mark, as you said, but at the 7-8 week mark - the 7-week mark in particular (17.8%) - the same age as the 2nd photo I posted. In fact there are more abortions at 7 weeks alone than at 9 & 10 weeks combined. And, while I am comfortable posting pictures of abortions from 1 to 40 weeks if you like, I would say you're misrepresenting the facts when you say the vast majority of abortions occur at up to 20 weeks, when in reality 88% (or 86.8%, if you use this data) of abortions occur at less than 12 weeks - and still the majority occur at 8 weeks or less. So I'd say my pictures fit my thread title just fine.
It's a lot more complicated than that. But that's a topic for another thread.
I think you are both right. Your picture depicts "an abortion"...
I can also see that it could infer that all abortions look like that.
It doesn't really matter, because I know what it would look like if the abortion never happened. To me, it's awfully sad to think about the lost life and lost opportunity.
Care to source that picture? I call bullshit on that one. Either that or you don't understand basic pregnancy dating. (See, two can play that "if you have even a small amount of schooling" game. :roll: ) You can quote my initial post for the sources of my pictures, but that doesn't work for yours.
Again - you didn't answer my question - can you show us the embryo in the photos I posted of what comes out of the uterus during an abortion or are you accusing the photographer of doctoring the pictures??
The bottom line is: Someone did an abortion and snapped a picture of what came out. For whoever actually wants to know what it looks like at that gestational age, there you have it. Take it how you want to. But at least it's an accurate representation (which is something I can personally attest to, regardless of how many anatomy classes you've had).
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
I could see how my position comes out, but it wasn't my intention to argue one way or the other. I just wanted to point out that there is no identifiable person at that point because I think most people have huge misperceptions about what abortions look like (and how complicated they are). Like I said in my initial post, people can be against abortion all they want (in this thread
I THINK.
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
You are exactly right: people are stupid. Do people get less stupid or more stupid when they are continually presented with options to bail them out of their stupidity? If you really can't control yourself their are plenty of avenues to let off sexual desire that won't risk pregnancy. Use those. Sex at it's most basic, natural, scientific level is an act of procreation. So memo to stupid people: don't be shocked if pregnancy is the result of your having sex. Make your choice early and save yourself anguish.
6/30/98 Minneapolis, 10/8/00 East Troy (Brrrr!), 6/16/03 St. Paul, 6/27/06 St. Paul
I can't help but wonder if you consider yourself to be less stupid than these people of whom you speak. :?:
:shock:
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
nobody answered my questions about what if that pile of cellular goo was the result of incest or abortion...
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
I've answered it a hundred times. That is a difficult one to answer unless you face it personally, but since I believe it is a child, I am against abortion in those cases (I think you meant rape or incest). I would need to do some more research on how carrying that child through pregnancy might affect a woman's health though.
I'm not really sure why you'd expect answers to a question where you refer to it as "cellular goo". Seems to me people are really just looking to pick fights on this topic yet again instead of actually discussing it.
Good! I'd like you to accomplish your objective to provide accurate representations (plural, not singular, as you yourself wrote), and not just cherry-pick the low-lying fruit of the least controversial abortion image you can find. Unless by "provide accurate representations" you meant "provide accurate representation of only photos which are the least controversial stage of abortion". But it's your thread, so provide or omit whatever info you deem appropriate for your point.
The earlier abortions have less people against them than the ones where the body is more fully formed... they are less in number, sure, but they still occur in significant numbers, would you agree? With showing just this earliest stage abortion it's like your running around going "see, this photo doesn't look like a person, see..." without showing the ones that would give a more objectionable response, and I don't think it gains any points for your position.
...and you are perhaps right about the data. I did not have time completely review and digest, and I may have misunderstood the data. I appreciate any accurate correction you made on that end.
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*Bristow VA 5/13/10 *MSG 5/20/10 *MSG 5/21/10
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
:roll: I provided accurate representationS - plural. There were two of them. I'd hardly say I've picked the low-lying fruit of abortion representations though. It took me years to find a single set of early abortion pictures online; the others are everywhere.
And that's just the point - there is no need to post pictures of later abortions because everyone has seen them. Have you not seen them? If there's anyone here who hasn't seen them, can't they just Google "abortion" and find them everywhere? (That's not to say that all those anti-abortion pictures are exactly accurate, by the way, but I'm sure they make the point you're trying to make.) The reason I posted these is because they are not readily available and most people don't have the opportunity to see them. Had you ever seen this - in pictures or in person?
The pictures I posted are merely a response to the other pictures that people usually reference when referring to abortion. They hold up (supposedly) third-trimester abortion pictures and tell women having 6-week abortions that the pictures represent her abortion. I'm here to say they do not - and now we have the ability to accurately represent her (and most women's) abortion. If someone wants to know what her late abortion looks like, I think she should be shown a picture of a late abortion. I'm not shy. But if she's having an early abortion, here are the pictures she should be shown. If nothing else, I know there are many women on this board who have had abortions (and men whose partners have had them) but have never seen what it really looked like at their gestational age and instead have misinformed images in their heads. This is an opportunity for those women whose abortions occurred at this stage in the pregnancy to see the truth of the matter.
I don't know why you keep trying to bait me into posting more graphic photos anyway. You know the reason I'm not posting them: I would probably get banned. Why don't you go ahead and post them if you think it's so important?? All I ask is that your pictures are accurate and representative portrayals of abortion at the gestational age you claim to represent.
You know it wouldn't bother me or change my perspective. I've never tried to deny that fetuses resemble babies in the later stages of development. I've never acted like late-term abortions aren't disturbing on some level. I've only said that they don't represent most abortions, that I think a woman has a right to choose what happens in her own body, that I don't believe a fetus becomes a person until it is born, and that people who have late abortions usually have good reasons - and most particularly that it's not for you or me or anyone else to judge. Posting a picture of something that resembles a dead baby - no matter how sensational & emotion-inspiring it is - does not change any of the things I just listed.
It's a shame that you feel the need to resort to such tactics, but go ahead if you think it's necessary to prove your point. We'll all be waiting.
If you feel the need to see the pictures, then why don't you just post them? I think most of know how disturbing a dead developed fetus looks. SCB was perfectly clear on her post and on her clarifications. Your redundant comment(s) are becoming spam.....
take the abortion debate somewhere else-
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*MSG 9/10/98 (backstage) *MSG 9/11/98 (backstage)
*Jones Beach 8/23/00 *Jones Beach 8/24/00 *Jones Beach 8/25/00
*Mansfield 8/29/00 *Mansfield 8/30/00 *Nassau 4/30/03 *Nissan VA 7/1/03
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*VA Beach 6/17/08 *DC 6/22/08 *MSG 6/24/08 (backstage) *MSG 6/25/08
*EV DC 8/17/08 *EV Baltimore 6/15/09 *Philly 10/31/09
*Bristow VA 5/13/10 *MSG 5/20/10 *MSG 5/21/10
a warning though, it's not a pretty sight, so please don't click on the link if you feel it may upset you.
http://www.priestsforlife.org/resources ... /index.htm
an abortion at 8 weeks.
http://www.priestsforlife.org/resources ... 08w-04.jpg
one of the links i posted was for an abortion carried out at 8 weeks. as scb said in her original post that "The majority of abortions occur at less than 9 weeks of pregnancy (in the United States)." , i thought it was relevant.
again, i have absolutely no intention of offending anyone and if my links are not ok, the mods can delete them.