***The Official Philadelphia Phillies 2012 Thread***

Cliffy6745 wrote:

What's kind of funny is that war is of no use in fantasy baseball while rbi's are.

http://www.fangraphs.com/fantasy/index. ... r-and-wrc/

The Jeagler wrote:

Cliffy6745 wrote:

What's kind of funny is that war is of no use in fantasy baseball while rbi's are.

http://www.fangraphs.com/fantasy/index. ... r-and-wrc/

exactly my point, no? in 99.99% of fantasy leagues the stat is irrelevant

The Fixer wrote:

pjhawks wrote:

The Jeagler wrote:

no.

utley's a better all around player than howard. come on dude. you know that. its no slight to howard.

but at the same time i think this lineup needs the big slugger in the middle of the lineup a little more than what chase brings you offensively. so howard's probably more valuable.

Utley is better at more things but Howard is more dominant at what he does well. much much harder to find a replacement for what howard does than what Utley does in my opinion. .

you're kidding right? there are 7 or 8 first basemen in MLB today that are better than howard. there are no second basemen in MLB today that are better than utley.

come on man

so Utley is better than Howard because there is much less competition at 2nd base than 1st base - yeah that makes a lot of sense. again i am just saying that what Howard does is much harder to replace in this lineup period.

WAR - no idea if that is used in fantasy leagues or not - just know its a ridiculous stat made up by some math geeks that has no relevance to actual play on the field. just because a sabermatician puts a formula together doesn't make it relevant guys - please stop with the WAR statistic.

pjhawks wrote:

The Fixer wrote:

pjhawks wrote:

Utley is better at more things but Howard is more dominant at what he does well. much much harder to find a replacement for what howard does than what Utley does in my opinion. .

you're kidding right? there are 7 or 8 first basemen in MLB today that are better than howard. there are no second basemen in MLB today that are better than utley.

come on man

so Utley is better than Howard because there is much less competition at 2nd base than 1st base - yeah that makes a lot of sense. again i am just saying that what Howard does is much harder to replace in this lineup period.

WAR - no idea if that is used in fantasy leagues or not - just know its a ridiculous stat made up by some math geeks that has no relevance to actual play on the field. just because a sabermatician puts a formula together doesn't make it relevant guys - please stop with the WAR statistic.

just look at the win/loss record.

BANG. DONE.

let's move on.

so Utley is better than Howard because there is much less competition at 2nd base than 1st base - yeah that makes a lot of sense. again i am just saying that what Howard does is much harder to replace in this lineup period.

Give up some people just don't understand what they see. If those stats make them happy them so be it. Like the jeags said bottom line is wins. They believe in there logic we believe in the facts. But i do disagree with you saying that Howard is more valuable then Utley. Howard is the best at hitting hr's and rbi's and that is 2 things not one,but Utley is and all around stud.

I would love for someone to explain to me their logic of "I concede that Utley is the best overall player on this team, but Howard is the most important." Wha? Huh? How in the fuck does that make any sense? Gimme 9 Utley's in my lineup over 9 Howard's every day of the week and twice on Sunday. This isn't even an argument.

Man, you two are fucking brutal. It's something new every fucking day with Harry and Lloyd.

1. I do not play fantasy baseball (or football for that matter)

2. WAR is not a fantasy stat. If wins and losses are important, use it, that is basically what the fucking thing calculates.

3. No one here that uses advanced stats has ever said they are the end all, be all. Actually, we have said quite the opposite. But you two simply say "watching" the game is the end all, be all (yet the only team you fucking watch is the Phillies). There can be a middle ground. To think otherwise is completely ignorant.

4. Stats aside, Utley is MUCH better than Ryan Howard because he is a much more difficult out. I am sure if you polled all major league pitchers 9 out of 10 would say they would rather face Howard than Utley with every lefty saying Howard. Plus he can play that thing called defense. It's not even a fucking argument. Anyone who says Howard is better than Utley should never speak anything about baseball again. Then again, you guys compared Howard to Ted Williams and Babe Ruth.

5. I pissed my pants reading this statement

Howard is the best at hitting hr's and rbi's and that is 2 things not one

Jearlpam0925 wrote:

I would love for someone to explain to me their logic of "I concede that Utley is the best overall player on this team, but Howard is the most important." Wha? Huh? How in the fuck does that make any sense? Gimme 9 Utley's in my lineup over 9 Howard's every day of the week and twice on Sunday. This isn't even an argument.

Very easy Howard effects the way numerous people see pitches, Ultey dosen't. I said Howard is more important in the batting lineup not all together.It's pretty easy if u actually understand why certain players get certain pitches thrown to them. Why is raul hitting better well he's seeing alot different pitches hitting in front of howard then he'd see hitting in front of chooch or nunez. :roll: :roll:

Jearlpam0925 wrote:

I would love for someone to explain to me their logic of "I concede that Utley is the best overall player on this team, but Howard is the most important." Wha? Huh? How in the fuck does that make any sense? Gimme 9 Utley's in my lineup over 9 Howard's every day of the week and twice on Sunday. This isn't even an argument.

when rollins won mvp in '07, was he the best player in the leaugue? ...no. the mvp is not the same as best overall player. the phils offense is built around howard knocking everyone home. he's the only one putting significant hr numbers this year. we've shown we can win for a prolong period of time every time utley goes to the dl. i don't believe we can win for a prolonged period of time without howard though...but we've never really seen it because howard rarely gets hurt, unlike utley. so it is an argument.

not for nothing but buster olney is a person some on here like to cite pretty regularly as being one of the top writers int he game. i would assume he agrees utley is the overall best player on the team, most do. yet when he made his list of the most irreplaceable players in the league howard made the cut. utley?....not on it (and, incidentally, only 3 first baseman were ranked higher than the R6--not 8):

http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/blog/_/n ... id/5333128
It's a very, very short list, and few players in the majors in 2010 are as important to the contending teams for which they play as Pedroia is to the Red Sox. Here's how I'd rank the top 15, with Pedroia in there somewhere:

1. Albert Pujols, St. Louis Cardinals. Of course.
2. Adrian Gonzalez, San Diego Padres. Of course.
3. Ubaldo Jimenez, Colorado Rockies. Colorado is 14-1 in the games he has started and 25-34 in its other games.
4. Miguel Cabrera, Detroit Tigers. He is the foundation of the Tigers' lineup and has posted your basic .330 batting average/20 homers/63 RBIs performance so far.
5. Joe Mauer, Minnesota Twins. He is not hitting with the power he showed in 2009, but he is the Twins' leader and has posted a .383 on-base percentage.
6. Jose Reyes, New York Mets. When he started hitting, they started winning.
7. Martin Prado, Atlanta Braves. Some guys in the Braves' lineup have zigged and zagged because of injuries, but Prado has been their best player since June 2009.
8. Evan Longoria, Tampa Bay Rays. When he goes into any kind of offensive funk, so do the Rays.
9. Ryan Howard, Philadelphia Phillies. He has shown over and over that he is capable of hoisting that team on his broad shoulders for a month at a time.
10. Andre Ethier, Los Angeles Dodgers. Manny Ramirez gets the attention, but Ethier is the anchor of the lineup, especially in a year in which Matt Kemp has struggled.
11. Joey Votto, Cincinnati Reds. The bottom line is that if he ever got hurt or stopped producing, the Reds probably would fall out of contention.
12. Ryan Zimmerman, Washington Nationals. Stephen Strasburg will be the Nats' biggest box-office draw for years to come, but Zimmerman is their barometer right now.
13. Josh Hamilton, Texas Rangers. When he started clubbing the ball, the Rangers separated themselves from the rest of the AL West.
14. Josh Johnson, Florida Marlins. Without him, they wouldn't even be in the conversation in the NL East.

By the way: There are no New York Yankees on this list largely because of the depth of their roster. Robinson Cano is a strong MVP candidate, but the rotation is so strong and the supporting cast is good enough that they continue winning in Cano's absence. On the other hand, if Jimenez went down for any reason, the Rockies probably would be finished.

Pedroia's injury truly hurts the Red Sox, writes Dan Shaughnessy. Pedroia had a hunch he was going to get bad news, writes Scott Lauber. In the aftermath of that news, the Red Sox lost Clay Buchholz to a knee injury, although it does not appear to be serious.

---

i know, i know, now buster olney is an idiot right? :roll:


some of you guys need to get off that high horse every once in a while

GO. PHILS.

The Jeagler wrote:

Jearlpam0925 wrote:

I would love for someone to explain to me their logic of "I concede that Utley is the best overall player on this team, but Howard is the most important." Wha? Huh? How in the fuck does that make any sense? Gimme 9 Utley's in my lineup over 9 Howard's every day of the week and twice on Sunday. This isn't even an argument.

when rollins won mvp in '07, was he the best player in the leaugue? ...no. the mvp is not the same as best overall player. the phils offense is built around howard knocking everyone home. he's the only one putting significant hr numbers this year. we've shown we can win for a prolong period of time every time utley goes to the dl. i don't believe we can win for a prolonged period of time without howard though...but we've never really seen it because howard rarely gets hurt, unlike utley. so it is an argument.

not for nothing but buster olney is a person some on here like to cite pretty regularly as being one of the top writers int he game. i would assume he agrees utley is the overall best player on the team, most do. yet when he made his list of the most irreplaceable players in the league howard made the cut. utley?....not on it (and, incidentally, only 3 first baseman were ranked higher than the R6--not 8):

http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/blog/_/n ... id/5333128
It's a very, very short list, and few players in the majors in 2010 are as important to the contending teams for which they play as Pedroia is to the Red Sox. Here's how I'd rank the top 15, with Pedroia in there somewhere:

1. Albert Pujols, St. Louis Cardinals. Of course.
2. Adrian Gonzalez, San Diego Padres. Of course.
3. Ubaldo Jimenez, Colorado Rockies. Colorado is 14-1 in the games he has started and 25-34 in its other games.
4. Miguel Cabrera, Detroit Tigers. He is the foundation of the Tigers' lineup and has posted your basic .330 batting average/20 homers/63 RBIs performance so far.
5. Joe Mauer, Minnesota Twins. He is not hitting with the power he showed in 2009, but he is the Twins' leader and has posted a .383 on-base percentage.
6. Jose Reyes, New York Mets. When he started hitting, they started winning.
7. Martin Prado, Atlanta Braves. Some guys in the Braves' lineup have zigged and zagged because of injuries, but Prado has been their best player since June 2009.
8. Evan Longoria, Tampa Bay Rays. When he goes into any kind of offensive funk, so do the Rays.
9. Ryan Howard, Philadelphia Phillies. He has shown over and over that he is capable of hoisting that team on his broad shoulders for a month at a time.
10. Andre Ethier, Los Angeles Dodgers. Manny Ramirez gets the attention, but Ethier is the anchor of the lineup, especially in a year in which Matt Kemp has struggled.
11. Joey Votto, Cincinnati Reds. The bottom line is that if he ever got hurt or stopped producing, the Reds probably would fall out of contention.
12. Ryan Zimmerman, Washington Nationals. Stephen Strasburg will be the Nats' biggest box-office draw for years to come, but Zimmerman is their barometer right now.
13. Josh Hamilton, Texas Rangers. When he started clubbing the ball, the Rangers separated themselves from the rest of the AL West.
14. Josh Johnson, Florida Marlins. Without him, they wouldn't even be in the conversation in the NL East.

By the way: There are no New York Yankees on this list largely because of the depth of their roster. Robinson Cano is a strong MVP candidate, but the rotation is so strong and the supporting cast is good enough that they continue winning in Cano's absence. On the other hand, if Jimenez went down for any reason, the Rockies probably would be finished.

Pedroia's injury truly hurts the Red Sox, writes Dan Shaughnessy. Pedroia had a hunch he was going to get bad news, writes Scott Lauber. In the aftermath of that news, the Red Sox lost Clay Buchholz to a knee injury, although it does not appear to be serious.

---

i know, i know, now buster olney is an idiot right? :roll:


some of you guys need to get off that high horse every once in a while

GO. PHILS.

good read,and getting them off there horse isn't possible cause all 3 know everything about baseball.