***The Official Philadelphia Phillies 2012 Thread***

Cliffy6745

The Fixer wrote:

http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/phillies/99706059.html

That is a good article. This is what I said all along about the Oswalt trade

"It puts us in a position to not be real flexible," Amaro said of adding Oswalt's contract

Matt Gelb is a solid writer, was on the Yankees beat last year.

The Juggler

The Fixer wrote:

The Jeagler wrote:

Jearlpam0925 wrote:

I would love for someone to explain to me their logic of "I concede that Utley is the best overall player on this team, but Howard is the most important." Wha? Huh? How in the fuck does that make any sense? Gimme 9 Utley's in my lineup over 9 Howard's every day of the week and twice on Sunday. This isn't even an argument.

when rollins won mvp in '07, was he the best player in the leaugue? ...no. the mvp is not the same as best overall player. the phils offense is built around howard knocking everyone home. he's the only one putting significant hr numbers this year. we've shown we can win for a prolong period of time every time utley goes to the dl. i don't believe we can win for a prolonged period of time without howard though...but we've never really seen it because howard rarely gets hurt, unlike utley. so it is an argument.

not for nothing but buster olney is a person some on here like to cite pretty regularly as being one of the top writers int he game. i would assume he agrees utley is the overall best player on the team, most do. yet when he made his list of the most irreplaceable players in the league howard made the cut. utley?....not on it (and, incidentally, only 3 first baseman were ranked higher than the R6--not 8):

http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/blog/_/n ... id/5333128
It's a very, very short list, and few players in the majors in 2010 are as important to the contending teams for which they play as Pedroia is to the Red Sox. Here's how I'd rank the top 15, with Pedroia in there somewhere:

1. Albert Pujols, St. Louis Cardinals. Of course.
2. Adrian Gonzalez, San Diego Padres. Of course.
3. Ubaldo Jimenez, Colorado Rockies. Colorado is 14-1 in the games he has started and 25-34 in its other games.
4. Miguel Cabrera, Detroit Tigers. He is the foundation of the Tigers' lineup and has posted your basic .330 batting average/20 homers/63 RBIs performance so far.
5. Joe Mauer, Minnesota Twins. He is not hitting with the power he showed in 2009, but he is the Twins' leader and has posted a .383 on-base percentage.
6. Jose Reyes, New York Mets. When he started hitting, they started winning.
7. Martin Prado, Atlanta Braves. Some guys in the Braves' lineup have zigged and zagged because of injuries, but Prado has been their best player since June 2009.
8. Evan Longoria, Tampa Bay Rays. When he goes into any kind of offensive funk, so do the Rays.
9. Ryan Howard, Philadelphia Phillies. He has shown over and over that he is capable of hoisting that team on his broad shoulders for a month at a time.
10. Andre Ethier, Los Angeles Dodgers. Manny Ramirez gets the attention, but Ethier is the anchor of the lineup, especially in a year in which Matt Kemp has struggled.
11. Joey Votto, Cincinnati Reds. The bottom line is that if he ever got hurt or stopped producing, the Reds probably would fall out of contention.
12. Ryan Zimmerman, Washington Nationals. Stephen Strasburg will be the Nats' biggest box-office draw for years to come, but Zimmerman is their barometer right now.
13. Josh Hamilton, Texas Rangers. When he started clubbing the ball, the Rangers separated themselves from the rest of the AL West.
14. Josh Johnson, Florida Marlins. Without him, they wouldn't even be in the conversation in the NL East.

By the way: There are no New York Yankees on this list largely because of the depth of their roster. Robinson Cano is a strong MVP candidate, but the rotation is so strong and the supporting cast is good enough that they continue winning in Cano's absence. On the other hand, if Jimenez went down for any reason, the Rockies probably would be finished.

Pedroia's injury truly hurts the Red Sox, writes Dan Shaughnessy. Pedroia had a hunch he was going to get bad news, writes Scott Lauber. In the aftermath of that news, the Red Sox lost Clay Buchholz to a knee injury, although it does not appear to be serious.

---

i know, i know, now buster olney is an idiot right? :roll:


some of you guys need to get off that high horse every once in a while

GO. PHILS.

2 - You say the phils offense is built around howard knocking everyone home. The most important thing about any offense is having guys on base to knock home. That's why OBP and OPS are so important.

howard leads the league in rbi's this year despite EVERYONE in front of him being on the dl and having down years.

funny how i knew you'd go after olney's credibility too. you're too predictable dude!

Cliffy6745

I like Olney. His book "The Last Night of the Yankee Dynasty" is one of the best Yankees books I have read, in my opinion. That list is not that spot on though. I mean, Josh Hamilton at 13, really? He is only the 13th most valuable player to his team. I would put him as number 1, 2 or 3.

The Juggler

Cliffy6745 wrote:

I like Olney. His book "The Last Night of the Yankee Dynasty" is one of the best Yankees books I have read, in my opinion. That list is not that spot on though. I mean, Josh Hamilton at 13, really? He is only the 13th most valuable player to his team. I would put him as number 1, 2 or 3.

the list is debatable....as is who is more valuable to the phils---howard or utley. that's my point. you and some others were making it seem like its not even up for debate. it, obviously, is.

The Juggler

kinda good....kinda bad news. he could be going to the dl:

http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/phil ... _term.html

Howard doesn't think he'll be out long term
Ryan Howard is back in Philadelphia, as we told you in today's Daily News, to have his injured left ankle examined.

He remains optimistic that he won't need to be put on the disabled list, although he was on crutches. Howard is scheduled for an MRI exam.

"I'm not worried that it’s long term," Howard told NBC10's John Clark at the airport before visiting team physician Dr. Michael Ciccotti. "It's been 2 days and I’ve ben able to put pressure on it and just using the crutches for precautionary measures. Hopefully, maybe it's like 4, 7 days. Maybe 10 days."

Howard was hurt when he slid back into second base in the first inning Sunday against the Washington Nationals.

"It’s part of the game," Howard said. "It's a little frustrating. Right now the focus is just getting better and see what happens ... It feels alright. I can put pressure on it … just need to see how long it takes."

"There’s pain, there’s swelling. Once we get all the swelling out, we'll see where it goes from there and what the MRI says and what ligaments are involved."

A stint on the DL would be another setback for a Phillies team that has suffered through major injuries throughout the season.

"On the positive side of things, we’re still only 2.5 games back," Howard said. "That’s the kind of the funny, interesting thing. We’ve had these setbacks and guys getting hurt. We’re still only 2.5 back with only 2 months to play. I’m trying to stay positive."





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Cliffy6745

And on another note, I was never a fan of Josh Hamilton until this year. Sounds awful but I was ready for him to be a flash in the pan. But after he fell off the wagon for a night, then came back and is doing what he is doing, which is being the best player in baseball this year I have a whole lot of respect for this guy. I think it was a case of ESPN beating his story into the ground but now that they have moved on, I am all for him.

The Juggler

Cliffy6745 wrote:

And on another note, I was never a fan of Josh Hamilton until this year. Sounds awful but I was ready for him to be a flash in the pan. But after he fell off the wagon for a night, then came back and is doing what he is doing, which is being the best player in baseball this year I have a whole lot of respect for this guy. I think it was a case of ESPN beating his story into the ground but now that they have moved on, I am all for him.

yeah he's great....didn't he fall off the wagon or something last year? i vaguely remember some kind of story about that

The Fixer

Cliffy6745 wrote:

The Fixer wrote:

http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/phillies/99706059.html

That is a good article. This is what I said all along about the Oswalt trade

"It puts us in a position to not be real flexible," Amaro said of adding Oswalt's contract

Matt Gelb is a solid writer, was on the Yankees beat last year.

did he switch places with andy martino? I saw martino is writing for the Times (I believe)

The Fixer

The Jeagler wrote:

howard leads the league in rbi's this year despite EVERYONE in front of him being on the dl and having down years.

funny how i knew you'd go after olney's credibility too. you're too predictable dude!

huge difference between an analyst and a reporter. just read paul hagen or jayson stark. awful

RBI are meaningless

Cliffy6745

The Jeagler wrote:

Cliffy6745 wrote:

I like Olney. His book "The Last Night of the Yankee Dynasty" is one of the best Yankees books I have read, in my opinion. That list is not that spot on though. I mean, Josh Hamilton at 13, really? He is only the 13th most valuable player to his team. I would put him as number 1, 2 or 3.

the list is debatable....as is who is more valuable to the phils---howard or utley. that's my point. you and some others were making it seem like its not even up for debate. it, obviously, is.

I get what you are saying, I just think Utley is one of the top few players in baseball and I obviously don't think too highly of Howard. I obviously don't see him play everyday and probably look at it a little different since I am not a Phillies fan, I just don't think they are even in the same league. Utley is on a short list behind Pujols, Howard is not close to that in my opinion.

The Fixer

The Jeagler wrote:

Cliffy6745 wrote:

I like Olney. His book "The Last Night of the Yankee Dynasty" is one of the best Yankees books I have read, in my opinion. That list is not that spot on though. I mean, Josh Hamilton at 13, really? He is only the 13th most valuable player to his team. I would put him as number 1, 2 or 3.

the list is debatable....as is who is more valuable to the phils---howard or utley. that's my point. you and some others were making it seem like its not even up for debate. it, obviously, is.

you are crazy.

Johnny Abruzzo

The Fixer wrote:

RBI are meaningless

Are runs meaningless too? I missed the announcement that the winner of a baseball game will be the team with the best OPS at the end of the game - when did that happen? I guess nobody will bother to hit sac flies anymore.

The Juggler

The Fixer wrote:

The Jeagler wrote:

howard leads the league in rbi's this year despite EVERYONE in front of him being on the dl and having down years.

funny how i knew you'd go after olney's credibility too. you're too predictable dude!

huge difference between an analyst and a reporter. just read paul hagen or jayson stark. awful

RBI are meaningless

if olney had an article supporting your point, everyone knows you'd reference it.

and you like to make the point that if howard was on some other team his rbi totals would be a lot lower. his totals with the phils are only so high because of how great our lineup is. so i just felt like pointing out that despite our lineup being on the dl for most the year, and poop the time that its not, he's still leading the league.

hopefully he's not out too long.

alright then. carry on.

The Fixer

Johnny Abruzzo wrote:

The Fixer wrote:

RBI are meaningless

Are runs meaningless too? I missed the announcement that the winner of a baseball game will be the team with the best OPS at the end of the game - when did that happen? I guess nobody will bother to hit sac flies anymore.

runs scored? as an individual stat, yes. a player's main goal during an AB is to not make an out. A teams' OBP directly correlates to runs scored

Cliffy6745

The Fixer wrote:

Cliffy6745 wrote:

The Fixer wrote:

http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/phillies/99706059.html

That is a good article. This is what I said all along about the Oswalt trade

"It puts us in a position to not be real flexible," Amaro said of adding Oswalt's contract

Matt Gelb is a solid writer, was on the Yankees beat last year.

did he switch places with andy martino? I saw martino is writing for the Times (I believe)

I am pretty sure Gelb was with the Bergan Country Record. I think Martino is with the Mets now. Ben Shpigel is now on the Yanks beat for the Times after Tyler Kepner tooks Jack Curry's (now with YES) spot as the national guy for the Times. This stuff changes every year.

The Fixer

The Jeagler wrote:

The Fixer wrote:

The Jeagler wrote:

howard leads the league in rbi's this year despite EVERYONE in front of him being on the dl and having down years.

funny how i knew you'd go after olney's credibility too. you're too predictable dude!

huge difference between an analyst and a reporter. just read paul hagen or jayson stark. awful

RBI are meaningless

if olney had an article supporting your point, everyone knows you'd reference it.

and you like to make the point that if howard was on some other team his rbi totals would be a lot lower. his totals with the phils are only so high because of how great our lineup is. so i just felt like pointing out that despite our lineup being on the dl for most the year, and poop the time that its not, he's still leading the league.

hopefully he's not out too long.

alright then. carry on.

I like olney a lot...his blog is the first thing I read every morning. He's not an analyst though. great reporter

the phils are still 4th in the NL in runs scored. werth and utley are always on base

jamminpearls

According to my buddy in Howards 1st 4 seasons he has hit hit the most hrs in baseball history. How is the not a great player??

Cliffy6745

jamminpearls wrote:

According to my buddy in Howards 1st 4 seasons he has hit hit the most hrs in baseball history. How is the not a great player??

I would also venture to guess that he has the most strikeouts or very close to it in his first 4 seasons.

The Fixer

jamminpearls wrote:

According to my buddy in Howards 1st 4 seasons he has hit hit the most hrs in baseball history. How is the not a great player??

last time I checked there is more to baseball than just hitting home runs.

do you think adam dunn is a great player?

Johnny Abruzzo

The Fixer wrote:

Johnny Abruzzo wrote:

The Fixer wrote:

RBI are meaningless

Are runs meaningless too? I missed the announcement that the winner of a baseball game will be the team with the best OPS at the end of the game - when did that happen? I guess nobody will bother to hit sac flies anymore.

runs scored? as an individual stat, yes. a player's main goal during an AB is to not make an out. A teams' OBP directly correlates to runs scored

That should make me feel better the next time we leave 12 on base and lose 4-2. (like Game 2 of the '08 Series)