***The Official Philadelphia Phillies 2012 Thread***

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  • Jearlpam0925
    Jearlpam0925 Deep South Philly Posts: 17,530
    pjhawks wrote:
    Jearlpam0925 wrote:
    What amazes me is the logic that because I think Utley is a better player than Howard that I am, for some reason, put in the "1 percent" that doesn't think Howard is a good player. Your ways of deduction amuse me. And this is the same dude who talks down to people when it comes to the Eagles. This is why people outside of Philly think Philly fans even eat their own.

    the same thing that bothers me about Eagles fans is the same thing bothering me about this thread and that is the negativity. Why the negativity towards arguably one of the 3-4 best position players in franchise history? i don't understand it at all - same with Eagles fans, some people will just NEVER say anything positive about certain players or coaches. to constantly hear and read negativity all the time, for franchises that have had the greatest winning era's of their histories is nauseating and very frustrating at times. i love talking sports but it way too often degenerates into this negativity - why can't things be gray and not such black and white as great or sucks - there is an in between.

    There is? Because apparently with you there isn't. You should really take your own advice. Because, again for some reason, just because I'm not all over Howard's scrote I am deemed not a fan of his apparently.
  • The Fixer
    The Fixer Posts: 12,837
    pjhawks wrote:

    i love talking sports but it way too often degenerates into this negativity - why can't things be gray and not such black and white as great or sucks - there is an in between.

    funny thing is that this is exactly what I'm saying about howard. he isn't great and he doesn't suck.
  • pjhawks
    pjhawks Posts: 12,912
    Jearlpam0925 wrote:
    pjhawks wrote:
    Jearlpam0925 wrote:
    What amazes me is the logic that because I think Utley is a better player than Howard that I am, for some reason, put in the "1 percent" that doesn't think Howard is a good player. Your ways of deduction amuse me. And this is the same dude who talks down to people when it comes to the Eagles. This is why people outside of Philly think Philly fans even eat their own.

    the same thing that bothers me about Eagles fans is the same thing bothering me about this thread and that is the negativity. Why the negativity towards arguably one of the 3-4 best position players in franchise history? i don't understand it at all - same with Eagles fans, some people will just NEVER say anything positive about certain players or coaches. to constantly hear and read negativity all the time, for franchises that have had the greatest winning era's of their histories is nauseating and very frustrating at times. i love talking sports but it way too often degenerates into this negativity - why can't things be gray and not such black and white as great or sucks - there is an in between.

    There is? Because apparently with you there isn't. You should really take your own advice. Because, again for some reason, just because I'm not all over Howard's scrote I am deemed not a fan of his apparently.

    not sure where i said you weren't fan - can you please show me where i singled you out by name?
  • Jearlpam0925
    Jearlpam0925 Deep South Philly Posts: 17,530
    I just can't wait to see how many dump trucks of money St. Louis sends to Pujols' house when it's time to sign an extension. Is A-Rod going to be a 30 mil player within his contract? Because, if not, Poop Holes is going to blow Howard's contract away.

    I understand why Amaro paid him so much though. A lot of clubs, and I'm sure the Phillies are one of them, employ economists in-house - or consultants externally - to value what the worth of a player is from a sales standpoint or, by another means, a non-baseball stance. And the simplest way to break this down = CHICKS DIG THE LONG BALL.
  • pjhawks
    pjhawks Posts: 12,912
    The Fixer wrote:
    pjhawks wrote:

    i love talking sports but it way too often degenerates into this negativity - why can't things be gray and not such black and white as great or sucks - there is an in between.

    funny thing is that this is exactly what I'm saying about howard. he isn't great and he doesn't suck.

    see i was going to stop then you make a comment like this -how can one of the top offensive players in franchise history not be great? are you kidding me? can you name more than 5 position players in Phillies history better than Ryan Howard? yet he is not great - how is that possible? so a franchise that has been around for over 100 years hasn't had more than 3-5 great offensive players? uggh you wonder why i want to put my hand through the wall when i read things like this. seriously dude come on please list me the position players in franchise history that are better than Ryan Howard.
  • The Fixer
    The Fixer Posts: 12,837
    pjhawks wrote:
    The Fixer wrote:
    pjhawks wrote:

    i love talking sports but it way too often degenerates into this negativity - why can't things be gray and not such black and white as great or sucks - there is an in between.

    funny thing is that this is exactly what I'm saying about howard. he isn't great and he doesn't suck.

    see i was going to stop then you make a comment like this -how can one of the top offensive players in franchise history not be great? are you kidding me? can you name more than 5 position players in Phillies history better than Ryan Howard? yet he is not great - how is that possible? so a franchise that has been around for over 100 years hasn't had more than 3-5 great offensive players? uggh you wonder why i want to put my hand through the wall when i read things like this. seriously dude come on please list me the position players in franchise history that are better than Ryan Howard.

    he's definitely top 5 in franchise history. that doesn't mean shit though. this team's history is horrendous
  • Jearlpam0925
    Jearlpam0925 Deep South Philly Posts: 17,530
    The Fixer wrote:
    pjhawks wrote:
    The Fixer wrote:
    funny thing is that this is exactly what I'm saying about howard. he isn't great and he doesn't suck.

    see i was going to stop then you make a comment like this -how can one of the top offensive players in franchise history not be great? are you kidding me? can you name more than 5 position players in Phillies history better than Ryan Howard? yet he is not great - how is that possible? so a franchise that has been around for over 100 years hasn't had more than 3-5 great offensive players? uggh you wonder why i want to put my hand through the wall when i read things like this. seriously dude come on please list me the position players in franchise history that are better than Ryan Howard.

    he's definitely top 5 in franchise history. that doesn't mean shit though. this team's history is horrendous

    Imagine if they never traded Sandberg.
  • jamminpearls
    jamminpearls Posts: 7,078
    Screw Phillies history go to MlB history and show me 5 players that have had a better 4yrs then him.
    Go Birds!!!!
  • The Fixer
    The Fixer Posts: 12,837
    Jearlpam0925 wrote:
    The Fixer wrote:

    he's definitely top 5 in franchise history. that doesn't mean shit though. this team's history is horrendous

    Imagine if they never traded Sandberg.

    You could probably make an argument that utley, rollins, and howard are all top 5 offensive players in franchise history. There isn't much competition
  • Jearlpam0925
    Jearlpam0925 Deep South Philly Posts: 17,530
    The Fixer wrote:
    Jearlpam0925 wrote:
    The Fixer wrote:

    he's definitely top 5 in franchise history. that doesn't mean shit though. this team's history is horrendous

    Imagine if they never traded Sandberg.

    You could probably make an argument that utley, rollins, and howard are all top 5 offensive players in franchise history. There isn't much competition

    Rollins has a chance at becoming the first shortstop in history to hit 200 homers, 100 triples, 500 doubles and steal 500 bases.

    We've never been so spoiled.
  • jamminpearls
    jamminpearls Posts: 7,078
    Pam what made baseball relevant again? The Hr chase to true fans like us it was the game. But to say chicks and I know where u were going with your back hand comments is nieve. Everyone digs the longball,there's a reason why longball hitters get paid top dollar. Is there a lot more to the game then the long ball,yes but the Phillies sure thrive on it.
    Go Birds!!!!
  • Jearlpam0925
    Jearlpam0925 Deep South Philly Posts: 17,530
    jamminpearls wrote:
    Pam what made baseball relevant again? The Hr chase to true fans like us it was the game. But to say chicks and I know where u were going with your back hand comments is nieve. Everyone digs the longball,there's a reason why longball hitters get paid top dollar. Is there a lot more to the game then the long ball,yes but the Phillies sure thrive on it.

    Yep, and it's the reason they go into droughts for weeks at a time.

    And not trying to be a dick, but I'm not getting the full scope of what you're writing here because of the run-on sentences. True fans, like us, it was the game? Meaning true fans appreciate the homer more than anything? I'm missing something here...
  • jamminpearls
    jamminpearls Posts: 7,078
    Jearlpam0925 wrote:
    jamminpearls wrote:
    Pam what made baseball relevant again? The Hr chase to true fans like us it was the game. But to say chicks and I know where u were going with your back hand comments is nieve. Everyone digs the longball,there's a reason why longball hitters get paid top dollar. Is there a lot more to the game then the long ball,yes but the Phillies sure thrive on it.

    Yep, and it's the reason they go into droughts for weeks at a time.

    And not trying to be a dick, but I'm not getting the full scope of what you're writing here because of the run-on sentences. True fans, like us, it was the game? Meaning true fans appreciate the homer more than anything? I'm missing something here...

    Sorry for my typing I meant to say that the chase brought casual fans back. But true fans like me u fixer cliffy hawks and jeags prob were back before. True fans appericate the whole game not induival things. Some might enjoy certain aspects more so the others. But to say that Howard isn't great is nuts. Someone please research who has the most hr and rbis in there 1st 4 seasons in mlb history. I'd bet he's right there,and that has to speak for its self.
    Go Birds!!!!
  • Jearlpam0925
    Jearlpam0925 Deep South Philly Posts: 17,530
    jamminpearls wrote:
    Jearlpam0925 wrote:
    jamminpearls wrote:
    Pam what made baseball relevant again? The Hr chase to true fans like us it was the game. But to say chicks and I know where u were going with your back hand comments is nieve. Everyone digs the longball,there's a reason why longball hitters get paid top dollar. Is there a lot more to the game then the long ball,yes but the Phillies sure thrive on it.

    Yep, and it's the reason they go into droughts for weeks at a time.

    And not trying to be a dick, but I'm not getting the full scope of what you're writing here because of the run-on sentences. True fans, like us, it was the game? Meaning true fans appreciate the homer more than anything? I'm missing something here...

    Sorry for my typing I meant to say that the chase brought casual fans back. But true fans like me u fixer cliffy hawks and jeags prob were back before. True fans appericate the whole game not induival things. Some might enjoy certain aspects more so the others. But to say that Howard isn't great is nuts. Someone please research who has the most hr and rbis in there 1st 4 seasons in mlb history. I'd bet he's right there,and that has to speak for its self.

    I've always wanted to see Howard be locked up and stamp his legacy as a Phillie. Same with Utley, Rollins, Hamels, Brown to-be. But I'm not at the risk of trading the integrity of what this organization has built over the last 5-8 years for sentimentality. Fans shouldn't have to worry about how much teams pay their players, but they do smack their heads against their wall when they're losing 80-90 games a year. So it should be every fan's right to care about how much players make because I don't want to see the team suffer as a whole just so I can see Ryan break A-Rod's home run record as a Phillie.
  • pjhawks
    pjhawks Posts: 12,912
    jamminpearls wrote:
    Jearlpam0925 wrote:
    jamminpearls wrote:
    Pam what made baseball relevant again? The Hr chase to true fans like us it was the game. But to say chicks and I know where u were going with your back hand comments is nieve. Everyone digs the longball,there's a reason why longball hitters get paid top dollar. Is there a lot more to the game then the long ball,yes but the Phillies sure thrive on it.

    Yep, and it's the reason they go into droughts for weeks at a time.

    And not trying to be a dick, but I'm not getting the full scope of what you're writing here because of the run-on sentences. True fans, like us, it was the game? Meaning true fans appreciate the homer more than anything? I'm missing something here...

    Sorry for my typing I meant to say that the chase brought casual fans back. But true fans like me u fixer cliffy hawks and jeags prob were back before. True fans appericate the whole game not induival things. Some might enjoy certain aspects more so the others. But to say that Howard isn't great is nuts. Someone please research who has the most hr and rbis in there 1st 4 seasons in mlb history. I'd bet he's right there,and that has to speak for its self.

    very good comment - i sat thru travis lee, juan bell, ken howell, floyd youmans, etc. - i've seen bad players and i've seen horrible teams - so the negativty with this team and especially ryan howard now just blows me away.
  • jamminpearls
    jamminpearls Posts: 7,078
    Ok but that isn't relevant in what we were talkn about. Plus the phillies do win and I do care what peolpe make,but don't let it change my view about a player especially when the player is producing.
    Go Birds!!!!
  • Jearlpam0925
    Jearlpam0925 Deep South Philly Posts: 17,530
    jamminpearls wrote:
    Ok but that isn't relevant in what we were talkn about. Plus the phillies do win and I do care what peolpe make,but don't let it change my view about a player especially when the player is producing.

    How is it not relevant to what we're talking about, and what is it we're actually talking about?
  • The Fixer
    The Fixer Posts: 12,837
    pjhawks wrote:

    very good comment - i sat thru travis lee, juan bell, ken howell, floyd youmans, etc. - i've seen bad players and i've seen horrible teams - so the negativty with this team and especially ryan howard now just blows me away.

    1 - who's being overly negative? I have said I don't think howard is worth his contract. I don't think that means I'm burying the guy. Most analysts called his contract horrible the day it was signed.

    2 - I'm with you with the past phils players. Growing up we were treated to some gems. We are experiencing the best era in phillies history. I get all that. My thing is that I want the era to last as long as possible. The only way this happens is if the organization continues to develop homegrown prospects (haven't had a homegrown pitcher come up and make an impact since hamels...maybe happ last year too I guess) and avoid bad long term contracts. pjhawks, I know you don't care about the contracts given out by the team, but you should. They are paramount to the future of this team.

    Matt Gelb had a great article in sunday's inquirer related to the phils current and future payroll. I'll try to find the link
  • The Fixer
    The Fixer Posts: 12,837
    http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/phi ... 06059.html
  • Jearlpam0925
    Jearlpam0925 Deep South Philly Posts: 17,530
    The Fixer wrote:
    http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/phillies/99706059.html

    Ya see baseball-reference has their own contract/salary section now? They do a good job of breaking down the projected Phils' payroll.
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