another student shot in school

1…457910…13

Comments

  • gimmesometruth27
    gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 24,719
    prfctlefts wrote:
    violent crime has increased in areas where gun control laws have been enacted,making it more likely law-abiding citizens have been un able to defend themselves from armed criminals

    I don't get why liberals think that we shoulkd advocate more restrictive "gun control" laws which would make obtaining a gun more difficult for average american citizens,but in REALITY it would do very little to prevent fr thugs from obtaining guns.
    source please? and no not from such unbaised sources as the nra that all of us have already seen ad nauseum.

    are you talking local municipalities, states, countries?? what evidence of this do you have?
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • _
    _ Posts: 6,657
    gimmesometruth27 wrote:
    prfctlefts wrote:
    violent crime has increased in areas where gun control laws have been enacted,making it more likely law-abiding citizens have been un able to defend themselves from armed criminals

    I don't get why liberals think that we shoulkd advocate more restrictive "gun control" laws which would make obtaining a gun more difficult for average american citizens,but in REALITY it would do very little to prevent fr thugs from obtaining guns.
    source please? and no not from such unbaised sources as the nra that all of us have already seen ad nauseum.

    are you talking local municipalities, states, countries?? what evidence of this do you have?

    And what kind of gun control laws were they? Not all regulations are the same, after all.
  • gimmesometruth27
    gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 24,719
    scb wrote:

    And what kind of gun control laws were they? Not all regulations are the same, after all.

    i know...the poster on the last page or the one before that broke it down by country. those with the toughest control laws actually had significantly less gun crime than the US, which has actually loosened gun control laws in many areas. prfctlefts can't come in here and post rubbish like that and expect to not be called on it when we have been discussing that very topic on another page...
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • WaveCameCrashin
    WaveCameCrashin Posts: 2,929
    http://www.justfacts.com/guncontrol.asp
  • gimmesometruth27
    gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 24,719
    prfctlefts wrote:
    http://www.justfacts.com/guncontrol.asp
    i hate to be a prick, but have you got anything more recent than 1998? most of that info was from 1992-1999...hardly useful when many state and local gun laws have been relaxed or tightened since then...
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • OnTheEdge
    OnTheEdge Posts: 1,300
    I think we should look at where these kids are getting guns. Was it sold to him? Did his father have it and not lock it up? We need stronger laws to keep these guns out of the hands of kids.
  • gimmesometruth27
    gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 24,719
    mb262200 wrote:
    I think we should look at where these kids are getting guns. Was it sold to him? Did his father have it and not lock it up? We need stronger laws to keep these guns out of the hands of kids.
    nobody knows where he got the gun. i did i quick google search and all that came up was this article and it did not answer any questions we have been asking in this thread...

    http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,584971,00.html

    Alabama Student Dies After Being Shot at School
    Friday, February 05, 2010

    MADISON, Ala. — A ninth-grader was shot to death by another student during a class change Friday at a north Alabama middle school, authorities said.

    Todd Brown, 14, was shot about 1:45 p.m. and taken by ambulance from Discovery Middle School to Huntsville Hospital, where he died, said hospital spokeswoman Kristen Bishop. She wouldn't release any other details.

    The suspected shooter was arrested inside in the school, where police are regularly stationed.

    Police did not release the name of the alleged shooter, also a ninth-grader, citing their ongoing investigation. No one else was injured and it wasn't immediately clear what prompted the gunfire.

    Police Chief Larry Muncey said the student has been charged with murder. He also referred to rumors that something posted on the Internet may have been connected to the shooting.

    "It's hearsay," he said. "We can't build cases on hearsay."

    Dee Fowler, the city school superintendent, said churches were working with the school system to offer counseling throughout the weekend and counselors will be at the campus Monday.

    He also said local officials, clergy and counselors will discuss the incident with community members at a local high school Sunday afternoon.

    "We see this as a time to discuss, reflect and also mourn this tragic event," Fowler said.

    Debbie Nalley has two grandsons at the school, including one in the ninth grade who sent a text message to his mother after the shooting.

    "He said there was a boy who had his hand in his pocket, and when he pulled it out he shot this other boy in the head in the ninth-grade hall," Nalley said. "It's upsetting for all the kids."

    Hannah Mannis told WHNT-TV that she and other students hunkered down in the dark while the school was on lockdown after the shooting. She said someone with Internet access on their cell phone learned there had been a shooting on campus and students started sending text messages to each other throughout the school.

    "It was very scary for us. We turned off all the lights, got in a corner, locked the doors and we just couldn't do anything until we got further information," Mannis said in an interview outside the school.

    "Everyone was screaming, everyone was freaking out and calling their parents and they said someone got shot," Mannis said.

    About 1,000 students attend the school, which has 7th, 8th and 9th grades. Concerned parents were seen hurrying toward the campus, where yellow crime scene tape was wrapped around the parking lot.

    Officials said emergency responders arrived at the school within two minutes of the 911 call.

    Madison has about 38,500 residents, many of whom work in technology jobs related to NASA's Marshall Space Flight Center at Redstone Arsenal.
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • aerial
    aerial Posts: 2,319
    smellyman.......hahahaha. If only we could pray and say the pledge of allegiance. hahahahaha
    Like I said kids were not killing kids when I was going to school....and there were alot less controls on guns then.
    “We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution.” Abraham Lincoln
  • rebornFixer
    rebornFixer Posts: 4,901
    scb wrote:
    rebornFixer wrote:
    I agree. Now what do you think about that same principle applied to adults?


    The same basic principle applies, although it may not be as clear-cut. I believe that laws which target law-abiding adult gun owners are useful if 1) they encourage safe storage practices, 2) they require some level of screening or decision-making around capacity or competence to be a responsible gun owner (e.g., requiring permits to own or buy), and 3) they prohibit the ownership of military-grade weaponry. And already I may have lost the NRA, which is fine by me. I believe in a basic level of gun control. My problem concerns laws like the long-gun registry here in Canada, which fortunately the government is about to scrap. This law requires all rifles and shotguns (for hunting or target shooting) to be registered with the government ... The argument in support of this is that violent crime rates will decrease. Sorry, but bullshit. The government knowing that farmer Bob has a .22 for shooting coyotes does NOTHING to decrease violent crime rates, but insisting on knowing this is expensive, authoritarian, and ineffective. Shooting rates have not decreased in Canada as a result of this registry (they have actually gone UP in major urban centres like Toronto), and why would they? Gangbangers who own long guns are not going to register them. Why not take all the resources that go into maintaining this ineffective system and funnel them into fighting handgun smuggling, which is one of the real causes of gang shootings? I oppose gun laws that sound good on paper but that ultimately turn out to be ineffective. We already had pretty stringent gun ownership and storage requirements, and I would never argue in favor of their removal. I would argue in favor of avoiding debacles like a long-gun registry, though. Gun control is a great idea that can go wrong when logic gets thrown out the window.
  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    rebornFixer wrote:
    I don't know why you're using the eye-rolling emoticon, dude ... Its a true statement. A gun without someone pulling the trigger sits on a rack somewhere or in some redneck's truck, totally harmless. I get your point, I think: Without guns, there'd be no gun violence. Granted. That doesn't mean that just holding a weapon suddenly draws up or manufactures all these homicidal urges, however. I think sometimes that the issue of gun control gets oversimplified, to the effect of "no guns = no violence", which is false. Its almost as if a total gun ban would magically convert all these homidical individuals into flower children. Underneath a proximal cause like weapon access are all kinds of psychological and sociological causes of violence, and if you ask me, fixing these is going to be the only way to reduce overall violence levels.

    Guns make it easier to kill people. You can't commit a massacre with a knife. Or if you can then your name is Zorro.
  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    prfctlefts wrote:
    violent crime has increased in areas where gun control laws have been enacted,making it more likely law-abiding citizens have been un able to defend themselves from armed criminals

    This is pure horseshit. The jump from areas with gun control laws to incidents of people being unable to defend themselves has no validity.
  • rebornFixer
    rebornFixer Posts: 4,901
    Byrnzie wrote:
    rebornFixer wrote:
    I don't know why you're using the eye-rolling emoticon, dude ... Its a true statement. A gun without someone pulling the trigger sits on a rack somewhere or in some redneck's truck, totally harmless. I get your point, I think: Without guns, there'd be no gun violence. Granted. That doesn't mean that just holding a weapon suddenly draws up or manufactures all these homicidal urges, however. I think sometimes that the issue of gun control gets oversimplified, to the effect of "no guns = no violence", which is false. Its almost as if a total gun ban would magically convert all these homidical individuals into flower children. Underneath a proximal cause like weapon access are all kinds of psychological and sociological causes of violence, and if you ask me, fixing these is going to be the only way to reduce overall violence levels.

    Guns make it easier to kill people. You can't commit a massacre with a knife. Or if you can then your name is Zorro.

    Or Conan. Truth be told, there have been a number of instances of multiple murders committed with knives or even swords. I am not going to argue that swords are going to lead to the same body count as guns, but I will point out that solving the problem of violence in society is going to take more than purging the world of firearms.
  • Cosmo
    Cosmo Posts: 12,225
    Here are unbiased numbers (Dept.Of Justice (U.S.)):
    http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/content/pub/pdf/cv08.pdf
    ...
    See Page 6
    "Firearms were used in 7% of all violent crimes in 2007 and 2008
    An offender was armed with a gun, knife, or other object used as a weapon in an estimated 20% of all incidents of violent crime in 2008 (table 7). By specific weapon type, offenders used about equal percentages of firearms, knives, and other weapons to commit violent crimes overall. Robberies (40%) were the most likely crime to involve an armed offender. Firearms (24%) were the most common weapon used in robberies.
    Offenders used firearms to commit 7% of all violent crimes in both 1999 and 2008 (text table 3). The rate of firearm violence declined from 2.5 victimizations per 1,000 persons age 12 or older in 1999 to 1.4 per 1,000 persons age 12 or older in 2008. The percentage of all incidents of violent crime committed with firearms fluctuated between 6% and 9% during the 10-year period."
    Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
    Hail, Hail!!!
  • OnTheEdge
    OnTheEdge Posts: 1,300
    I have a gun in my house for protection, just in case. And there isn't anybody that's going to tell me I can't. Do people actually believe that with a gun bann criminals will not be able to get a gun. The only people that are going to get hurt by a gun ban are the innocent people that want to have them for protection. Look at the kid in this thread, he wasn't even old enough to buy a gun, but he got one.
  • Cosmo
    Cosmo Posts: 12,225
    edited February 2010
    rebornFixer wrote:
    Or Conan. Truth be told, there have been a number of instances of multiple murders committed with knives or even swords. I am not going to argue that swords are going to lead to the same body count as guns, but I will point out that solving the problem of violence in society is going to take more than purging the world of firearms.
    ...
    Well... think about it this way...
    A guy comes at you with a bat... there's a good chance you can take that bat out of his hands and shove it up his ass, right?
    A knife... tougher, but he still has to get within close range to do you harm (same thing with a sword). Plus, you can defend yourself with other objects... a chair as a shield, a golf club as a weapon.
    And you can always run away from a bat or knife.
    A gun... you lose. Automatically... you lose. A baseball bat, a knife, a sword (ask the guy from that Indiana Jones movie)... you lose. Running, my help.... but, he can be a stupid fat guy... with a gun, he can still get you.
    Post edited by Cosmo on
    Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
    Hail, Hail!!!
  • OnTheEdge
    OnTheEdge Posts: 1,300
    aerial wrote:
    smellyman.......hahahaha. If only we could pray and say the pledge of allegiance. hahahahaha
    Like I said kids were not killing kids when I was going to school....and there were alot less controls on guns then.

    And we were allowed to say GOD......imagine that!!!
  • OnTheEdge
    OnTheEdge Posts: 1,300
    Cosmo wrote:
    rebornFixer wrote:
    Or Conan. Truth be told, there have been a number of instances of multiple murders committed with knives or even swords. I am not going to argue that swords are going to lead to the same body count as guns, but I will point out that solving the problem of violence in society is going to take more than purging the world of firearms.
    ...
    Well... think about it this way...
    A guy comes at you with a bat... there's a good chance you can take that bat out of his hands and shove it up his ass, right?
    A knife... tougher, but he still has to get withing close range to do you harm (same thing with a sword). Plus, you can defend yourself with other objects... a chair as a shield, a golf club as a weapon.
    And you can always run away from a bat or knife.
    A gun... you lose. Automatically... you lose. A baseball bat, a knife, a sword (ask the guy from that Indiana Jones movie)... you lose. Running, my help.... but, he can be a stupid fat guy... with a gun, he can still get you.

    AAHHH, unless YOU have a gun and shoot the fucker first. :D
  • Cosmo
    Cosmo Posts: 12,225
    mb262200 wrote:
    aerial wrote:
    smellyman.......hahahaha. If only we could pray and say the pledge of allegiance. hahahahaha
    Like I said kids were not killing kids when I was going to school....and there were alot less controls on guns then.

    And we were allowed to say GOD......imagine that!!!
    ...
    Please... don't tell me that you believe reciting the 'Pledge of Alligence' is going to end school shootings.
    Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
    Hail, Hail!!!
  • Cosmo
    Cosmo Posts: 12,225
    mb262200 wrote:
    AAHHH, unless YOU have a gun and shoot the fucker first. :D
    ...
    Have you ever shot someone? Ever seen someone who was shot?
    It's not as glorious as you want it to be.
    Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
    Hail, Hail!!!
  • rebornFixer
    rebornFixer Posts: 4,901
    mb262200 wrote:
    Cosmo wrote:
    rebornFixer wrote:
    Or Conan. Truth be told, there have been a number of instances of multiple murders committed with knives or even swords. I am not going to argue that swords are going to lead to the same body count as guns, but I will point out that solving the problem of violence in society is going to take more than purging the world of firearms.
    ...
    Well... think about it this way...
    A guy comes at you with a bat... there's a good chance you can take that bat out of his hands and shove it up his ass, right?
    A knife... tougher, but he still has to get withing close range to do you harm (same thing with a sword). Plus, you can defend yourself with other objects... a chair as a shield, a golf club as a weapon.
    And you can always run away from a bat or knife.
    A gun... you lose. Automatically... you lose. A baseball bat, a knife, a sword (ask the guy from that Indiana Jones movie)... you lose. Running, my help.... but, he can be a stupid fat guy... with a gun, he can still get you.

    AAHHH, unless YOU have a gun and shoot the fucker first. :D

    I was thinking the same thing. ;) Most of these 'bangers actually don't know how to shoot. Never mind the fuckers that hold the gun sideways ... Even the ones that point it right side up rarely or never practice at a range.

    In all seriousness, Cosmo, I see your point, and if it comes down to some punk waving a knife at me or brandishing a MAC-10, I'll choose the knife any day. That being said, I have some self-defense training. I seem to recall a few studies that have actually examined the likelihood of being injured during a mugging or other robbery, and I believe that the likelihood of being injured is LOWER when the criminal uses a gun. Guns often paralyze people with fear, making resistance less likely and therefore reducing the odds that cowboys like you and I do get injured. I could probably look these papers up.

Categories