***The Official Philadelphia Phillies 2012 Thread***

Cliffy6745 wrote:

The Champ wrote:

metsfan wrote:

the only thing swisher has done for the yankees is make the clubhouse more fun with the pies in the face.

I think the pie guy is a different asshole on the team..

It was Burnett

Yes, that asshole precisely ..

HEY. Take your Guido Beach blow outs outta here!

metsfan wrote:

Jearlpam0925 wrote:

Ehhhh, I could see Crawford on the Mets if they don't sign Bay this year. LOVE Crawford. Swisher on the other hand.....If ever in a dark alley. Weird fucked up shit I would do, just to haunt him the rest of his life. WALKING DOUCHEBAG, and it has nothing to do with World Series win and all to do with the faux hawk, and his feeling that he was an immediate contributor to those rings that will be received. Horrible player, can't stand him.

the only thing swisher has done for the yankees is make the clubhouse more fun with the pies in the face. crawford will be a met next even if they sign bay. francoeur is only signed through the 2010 season.

he contributed more than that, don't let the low batting average blind your vision. The first month of the season, he was their best hitter and wound up being very productive from a power and RBI standpoint, especially since he wasn't the starting right fielder on Opening Day. He's definitely not better than Werth and if you prefer high OBP guys, I'd take him over Francouer. Francouer is better defensively, probably about a two in Strat-O-Matic, but from a getting on base percentage standpoint, I'll take Swisher.

metsfan wrote:

xavier mcdaniel wrote:

he contributed more than that, don't let the low batting average blind your vision. The first month of the season, he was their best hitter and wound up being very productive from a power and RBI standpoint, especially since he wasn't the starting right fielder on Opening Day. He's definitely not better than Werth and if you prefer high OBP guys, I'd take him over Francouer. Francouer is better defensively, probably about a two in Strat-O-Matic, but from a getting on base percentage standpoint, I'll take Swisher.

outta those 3 that you mentioned i'd take werth followed by francouer and swisher. i love that werth is that lunch and pail type player. reminds me of dykstra just with more power. also look at the lineup werth and swisher were in last year and compare it to the mets lineup. swisher and werth had protection, whereas fancouer was "the" guy with the mets. i'd like to see what francouer can do with healthy mets team and the addition of jason bay or matt holliday.

completely agree with you on that. I'm pretty confident Werth won't end up like Dykstra post-baseball..

Here you guys go...

http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/insider/ ... %3d4742365

Not sure I agree with this but I am a big fan of Dave Cameron.

The Jeagler wrote:

Cliffy6745 wrote:

Here you guys go...

http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/insider/ ... %3d4742365

Not sure I agree with this but I am a big fan of Dave Cameron.

Utley? interesting. anyway you can cut and past the article? i'm not an "insider"

Yeah, I saw that headline on there somewhere - "MVP of the 00's - Utley" or something? I saw it was IN, so I didn't bother with it. How does one become an Insider? Does it cost money? I think it's annoying.

The true MVP of the '00s

By Dave Cameron

Editor's note: Over the past two weeks on ESPN.com, writers and editors have been looking back at the past decade in baseball -- and looking ahead to the future. On Wednesday, Dave Cameron of FanGraphs identifies baseball's most valuable player at the close of the aughts.

Albert Pujols' greatness is unquestioned. He won his second consecutive National League MVP award this year (his third overall), and this time around, he took home every first-place vote. He's finished in the top four in MVP voting in eight of the nine years he's been in the majors, and he hasn't even turned 30. Yet there is another National League player who is just as valuable, if not more so, and receives none of the accolades. Seriously.

Chase Utley, the Phillies' star second baseman, has never finished higher than seventh in the MVP voting since he arrived in Philadelphia, but has contributed more bang for the buck than any other player in baseball. At FanGraphs, we have a metric that encompasses a player's total contribution on the field, called Wins Above Replacement. WAR, as it is often abbreviated, combines a player's value at the plate and in the field to give a better overall picture of a player's worth. (In layman's terms, "replacement," as defined by stat guru Tom Tango, represents "the talent level for which you would pay the minimum salary on the open market, or for which you can obtain at minimal cost in a trade." Mike Sweeney, who signed a minor league deal in early 2009 and produced 0.2 WAR for the Mariners, is a good example of a replacement-level player.)

By putting all players against a similar baseline, we can compare their value side by side, pitting defensive wizards against burly sluggers and finding out who actually contributes more to helping their team win. Since entering the league in 2005, Utley has added 37.9 wins above what a league minimum player would have provided, which is a tremendous total that represents his offensive prowess and Gold Glove skills at second base. Middle infielders who can hit as well as Utley are rare breeds indeed, and when you factor in his incredible baserunning -- 23-for-23 in stolen bases last year! -- he grades out as the most complete player in baseball. From that Wins Above Replacement total, we can use a wins-to-dollars conversion based on how teams have historically valued wins in the free-agent market on a yearly basis. Considering how good Utley has been since the Phillies gave him the second-base job, his performance on the field has been worth $154 million. That's about $31 million a year in production.

Top Value Since 2005
Player WAR Value Salary Net
Chase Utley 37.9 $154M $25M $129M
David Wright 29.6 $119M $14M $105M
Hanley Ramirez 24.9 $106M $7M $99M
Grady Sizemore 27.3 $108M $10M $98M
Albert Pujols 40.4 $164M $66M $98M

In exchange for that performance, the Phillies have paid Utley a meager $25 million in salary, leaving $129 million in surplus value. Pujols has been ever so slightly better on the field, producing 40.4 wins and $164 million in raw value, but St. Louis has paid him $66 million over the past five years. The $41 million difference in salary more than outweighs the 2.5 difference in wins produced on the field, allowing the Phillies to extract more value from Utley than St. Louis got from its superstar. And remember, Utley didn't land a permanent job in the majors until 2005. He has had 2,269 fewer plate appearances to work with, and still managed to get himself within shouting distance of Pujols' value for the decade. Once you adjust for games played, in fact, Utley grades out slightly higher. Utley has produced a net value of just over $35,000 per plate appearance, compared to $28,000 per trip to the plate for Pujols. While Utley hasn't been at the top of the game for quite as long, once you account for salary, he's been the most valuable player in baseball since his arrival in the big leagues.

The difference may only grow over the next few seasons. Pujols has two years remaining on the seven-year, $100 million contract he signed in 2004, but you have to believe that the Cardinals will give him a massive extension before his contract expires. He is due $16 million in each of the next two years, and the average annual salary of his next deal will surely exceed that. Utley, meanwhile, is under contract through 2013 at $15 million per year -- less than half of what he's worth on an annual basis. He may not have the trophies or the gaudy home run totals of players like Pujols or Alex Rodriguez, but Chase Utley is right there with the very best players in the game. When you factor in that the Phillies have him under contract at rates that don't even come close to his true value, he rises above the rest as the real Most Valuable Player in baseball.

Dave Cameron is the managing editor of FanGraphs.

oh danny boy....dany's baez looks to be our next reliever. yes, i do intend to spell his name with an apostrophe at all times.

i like the signing...if it indeed turns out to be true.

Via MLBTR...

Worst Signings

* Placido Polanco, Phillies - three years, $18MM. Where was the demand for a 34-year-old second baseman coming off a .727 OPS? What other club would've offered even one or two years at $5MM per?
* Brandon Lyon, Astros - three years, $15MM. Lyon's not a bad pitcher, but this commitment is excessive. He's not a high strikeout guy, and his '09 control was a career-worst.
* Fernando Rodney, Angels - two years, $11MM. What would Rodney have gotten without the 37 saves? I have a reliever, 33 in March, who posted a 4.40 ERA, 7.3 K/9, and 4.9 BB/9. Can I find a one-year, $2MM offer?
* John Grabow, Cubs - two years, $7.5MM. The Cubs are tight on payroll, but were quick to commit an above-market contract to a lefty reliever with a 5.0 BB/9 in '09.
* Jason Kendall, Royals, Ivan Rodriguez, Nationals - two years, $6MM. Kendall is 35, Pudge is 38, and neither topped a .700 OPS in '09. Gregg Zaun had already signed a reasonable one-year, $2.15MM deal.
* Alex Cora, Mets - one year, $2MM. Why did his salary hold steady despite a lousy '09? This contract isn't a franchise-killer, but comparable players could've been had at less than a million bucks.

how many more days till the back to back nl champs take the field at spring training?