why do you believe in God or...

I for a long time wanted to find religion in my younger years and as I studied religion after religion, I came to the conclusion that no religion could possibly be a true voice of God. I feel religion was created to give moral guidence and to help control the people, but it's just a myth like the greek gods.

I then became agnostic or Deist in my beliefs, but the more I thought about it the less I believed. There cannot be an omnipotent being. Why would there be, what use would there be for him? He does not answer prayers. IMO A truly loving god would save the little innocent boy dying of cancer before he helped the football team win the superbowl. If it were true, it would be no god that I would want a part of.

Have you ever heard the study where one group prayed to a tractor daily for several months and compared it to another group who prayed daily to a god..the statistics actually came back that praying to the tractor was slightly better. Funny but true.

So an athiest I am and an atheist I will always be.

deadnothingbetter wrote:

the murderer.... i was asking a rhetorical question. if someone murdered your loved one would you be able to forgive?

If forgiveness meant that the murderer would be exempt from society's demand for justice? No.
I say that eventually you could forgive the murderer, even if the main reason for doing so, is to somehow free you from continuing to carry the absolute pain and nightmare of the murder in you forever. Eating up at you. It makes you so crazy. No one wants to live like that indefinitely.
But my 'forgiveness' still wants to see this person be punished for what they have done. A catholic priest said to me 'forgiveness will give you inner peace in your heart. It should not equate to punishment'. I don't agree. That's like saying we should not have any laws in place to deal with any one that breaks the law. Well that's the way i see it anyway.

Peace..

Surf Life wrote:

I for a long time wanted to find religion in my younger years and as I studied religion after religion, I came to the conclusion that no religion could possibly be a true voice of God. I feel religion was created to give moral guidence and to help control the people, but it's just a myth like the greek gods.

I then became agnostic or Deist in my beliefs, but the more I thought about it the less I believed. There cannot be an omnipotent being. Why would there be, what use would there be for him? He does not answer prayers. IMO A truly loving god would save the little innocent boy dying of cancer before he helped the football team win the superbowl. If it were true, it would be no god that I would want a part of.

Have you ever heard the study where one group prayed to a tractor daily for several months and compared it to another group who prayed daily to a god..the statistics actually came back that praying to the tractor was slightly better. Funny but true.

So an athiest I am and an atheist I will always be.

i believe in many cases, like in yours, that's why people become atheists... not all the time though. they look for God in religions.... which is the wrong way to go.

i saw a bumpersticker once that said, "god is too big to fit in just one religion" then i left a note on the windshield that said, "god is too big to even fit in all religions."

Ahnimus wrote:

Some find satan that very same way.

But, evolution is all about "Me". Survival of the fittest. So if you were to truly "align" yourself with evolution, you'd be doing just the opposite.

The voice from inside the box tells us the exact opposite of the Truth, remember. You might remember our programmed stuff we have not yet clarified.......

soulsinging wrote:

my point is what if it's NOT against our will? what if our will is entirely to devote our lives to god and service and humility, but we just happened to be raised in a culture or taught by a wise man that the best way to foster this is through buddhism? our will is 100% to be with god and believe in him and serve him, we just picked the wrong forum to do it... and god will damn us for that honest mistake. given that you claims he's so infinitely understanding of our human failings, it seems a bit daft to say he will never forgive us making the wrong guess when our heart and intentions are totally pure and directed only towards what we truly and honestly believed he wanted for us. becos as i recall, all the major religions at some point claim they are the only way to god. what has christianity got on them? cos if islam is right, you're all fucked. wouldn't you think it was kinda bullshit if a m uslim told you god loved you but was going to send you to hell becos you really thought you were doing the right thing with christianity?

so in other words, you want all religions to lead to god? i doubt that any religion leads to god, even christianity. follow the catholics, the mormons, the presbyterians, lutherans, pentecostals, apostolics, adventists, the baptists, trinitarians, the church of god, jehovah's witness, episcopiolans, epilopongiasdshkians.... arrghhh, so many of them. all of these fall under the same ol' christian category and all of them claim to be the true denomination, or true christians. follow them if you want to. i don't. and i'm not. and neither am i advocating that you follow any of these... i'm telling you to follow jesus. follow him however you'd like, but follow him. or don't. all i'm saying is, that's what the bible asks of you.

you also said,"it seems a bit daft to say he will never forgive us making the wrong guess when our heart and intentions are totally pure and directed only towards what we truly and honestly believed he wanted for us. becos as i recall, all the major religions at some point claim they are the only way to god." the point is, it's all about your faith, it's where it depends on. you're right tho... maybe the muslims were right and i was wrong all along. but that's what faith means and according to the bible that's what it asks of you. i can't prove that jesus is indeed the way.... but i can believe he is. even if there are other religions who claim the same, this one belief is the one i choose.

it's basically what it all boils down to... that's it. no different from any other person who doesn't believe in the bible. "how could i be so sure that the bible is the way to god?" or "how is this the right one after all those that claim to be the right one?"

except that your question is a little bit different tho... cause it's more like "why can't god forgive this simple mistake? out of all the religions, why can't he forgive me for picking the wrong one?" simplest answer i could find.... if you knew and had heard about Jesus, I'm guessing God's not going to take anything as an excuse cause he'll probably say something like "don't you know what faith means?" or somethin i dunno... i'm just figuring. but if it's for someone who's never heard of the bible like you mentioned before, well, like i answered you before with a biblical reference, "they are without excuse." that's something i really don't wanna get into. and whatever you'll say, you're probably right.

i have faith. i have a very deep and strong and powerful faith. you are telling me that is not enough and that god requires more than that.

no, faith is enough. if you have faith in this god as much as you say you do, then why have a hard time believing in jesus? i mean, this god's only intention was to make it easier for us.... so that's why he put jesus there. if jesus weren't there... it would've definitely been tougher.

this is a flat out lie. by definition, you are demanding that people have to dedicate themselves to a religion. christianity inherently is a religion. cult, creed, and code. you have to accept and believe certain mythology. you can't "simply believe." you have to believe the right things and you have to believe them the way the church (and you) tell us to. that is, by definition, religion.

no... read my first paragraph. although, i know that you may not completely understand me... but believe me, i've gone through lots of things in life that i've found out the things that the bible offers me is far from what christianity offers.... including legalizations within church congregations.

soulsinging wrote:

which has been my point all along. yes, i think all religions should and do lead to god. in that sense, all religions are true and none are. what matters is whether or not your religion is fostering spiritual growth and a relationship with god. not what names and ceremonies you use. like it or not, christianity has doctrine. jesus dying and resurrecting and being the son of god is doctrine. period. if that brings you closer to god, more power to you. if you think it is the ONLY way to god, i think you're wrong. if you're right, i think such a limited god is sad and pathetic and don't feel the need to bow down to what is essentially just a big human with superpowers who lives forever.

and my point has always been that calling him a limited god has only been because he respects us enough to make our own choices.... that's the limited God that he is, who limits his own powers by his own will to not interfere in our decisions. i don't care if you think i'm wrong, all i know is that this is my faith and the god i serve. if you wanna look into it, good. if not, good. i don't like getting into conversations about, "my god is bigger than your god." it's childish and pointless. and yet you say that all religions point to god, but then say that my faith is "whacked" out. i say that no religions point to god, but that's just me.

that's my point. these people HAVE faith in god. they just think their current religion brings them closer to god than some book with a stories about a dead guy being god.

a dead and resureccted man, you mean. but i sense your point. and just like they have their faith, there is also mine. why is mine not respected as much as theirs is if their faith constitutes the same concepts? they claim that their faith is the only way that leads to god. i don't try to take that away from them, do i? why try to discredit mine?

since when are the two inseparable? becos jesus is a whack story about a dead guy being god. humans don't die and come back to life. and the god i believe in is not so powerless and arbitrary that he decided the only way to let our shortcomings be forgiven is to kill a good man and force us to pray to him and beg for it. in addition, the god i believe in does not think we are horribly flawed and evil creatures, just human. and the god i believe in loves us unconditionally, he doesn't base it on how much jesus ass-kissin we do. i don't need some third party to intervene, i have a direct and personal relationship with god.

the god i believe in is neither so powerless and arbitrary... it wasn't him that decided the only way to be forgiven was to kill a good man and force us to follow him. that's what i've been arguing with you all along. but frankly you're being a little stubborn.

and neither does he think we're horribly flawed and evil creatures... we're the one's who think of ourselves like that, as humans. because of that, we kill, create wars, destroy our environment and the list could go on. my god still loves us uncoditionally even if we don't follow jesus... that's why he put jesus there in the first place, because he loved us. not the other way around.

apart from that, good for you, if you have this close relationship with this god. that's really not my concern.

From where I sit in my lofty home,
I direct the affairs of man:
His comings & goings, his matters of heart,
Whether he succeeds or fails.

I take him to places that know no limits
And guide him through intricate schemes.
And when he sleeps, I continue on
To take him on wondrous journeys.

And though I control his every move,
His habits can disrupt my work:
Exposed to abuse, disuse, or neglect,
I no longer may ably serve him.