Trouble With Atheism

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  • hippiemom
    hippiemom Posts: 3,326
    callen wrote:
    not seen one prominent mainstream person say...."I'm an Atheist"...and do applogize on the taking off phrase...poorly written. (-:
    I'd just as soon not have people assume I'm affiliated with a bunch of people who can't be bothered to think things through for themselves and are only calling themselves atheists because some celebrity has made it the fashionable thing to do.
    "Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." ~ MLK, 1963
  • gue_barium
    gue_barium Posts: 5,515
    callen wrote:
    not seen one prominent mainstream person say...."I'm an Atheist"...and do applogize on the taking off phrase...poorly written. (-:

    Because, in the mainstream, to do so only creates inconsequential reactions.

    Edit: That's just a guess.
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  • cornnifer
    cornnifer Posts: 2,130
    The Doc wrote:
    . Secondly, it is inconsistent with philosophical history, as philosophers have been successfully attacking faith with reason since faith was invented.

    .

    Successfully? i've not heard or read a single philosophical argument against faith that really stands up to scrutiny. They are all very easily taken apart. i'm pretty sure i've heard or read them all.
    "When all your friends and sedatives mean well but make it worse... better find yourself a place to level out."
  • macgyver06
    macgyver06 Posts: 2,500
    hippiemom wrote:
    How so?

    ''Philosophically many atheists do not deny the possibility of the existence of a God, however they view it as unattainable knowledge which belief in corrupts the mind.'' ( from the original post ) ''

    unattainable knowledge is nothing.

    '' There is no such thing as nothing at all '' - Cornell

    so maybe you just don't want to keep looking... or have someone find out for you..
  • macgyver06
    macgyver06 Posts: 2,500
    or maybe you don;t agree with that line..
  • hippiemom
    hippiemom Posts: 3,326
    macgyver06 wrote:
    ''Philosophically many atheists do not deny the possibility of the existence of a God, however they view it as unattainable knowledge which belief in corrupts the mind.'' ( from the original post ) ''

    unattainable knowledge is nothing.

    '' There is no such thing as nothing at all '' - Cornell

    so maybe you just don't want to keep looking... or have someone find out for you..
    I think that it's unattainable with our current knowledge base and technology. That's no reason to give up though, as our knowledge increases and our technology improves all the time.
    "Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." ~ MLK, 1963
  • macgyver06
    macgyver06 Posts: 2,500
    hippiemom wrote:
    I think that it's unattainable with our current knowledge base and technology. That's no reason to give up though, as our knowledge increases and our technology improves all the time.

    you ever read Angels and Demons?
  • hippiemom
    hippiemom Posts: 3,326
    macgyver06 wrote:
    you ever read Angels and Demons?
    I think I may have, but it didn't leave any sort of lasting impression on me, I don't even remember what it was about. His books are mediocre beach reading, in my opinion.

    What was in the book that led you to mention it?
    "Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." ~ MLK, 1963
  • The Doc
    The Doc Posts: 14
    cornnifer wrote:
    Successfully? i've not heard or read a single philosophical argument against faith that really stands up to scrutiny. They are all very easily taken apart. i'm pretty sure i've heard or read them all.

    See: David Hume's Argument From Design
    See also: The Atheist's Problem of Evil
    See also: Darwin's Theory of Evolution
    See also: anything by Voltaire, Schopenhauer, Thomas Paine, Sartre, Karl Marx, Bertrand Russell, Ayn Rand, Nietzsche, Socrates, and the list goes on...

    They all basically destroy either the Judeo-Christian manifestation of God, or the faith this God is supposed to provide in the human being.
  • macgyver06
    macgyver06 Posts: 2,500
    hippiemom wrote:
    I think I may have, but it didn't leave any sort of lasting impression on me, I don't even remember what it was about. His books are mediocre beach reading, in my opinion.

    What was in the book that led you to mention it?

    The characters talk alot about the relationship between science and religion and how they continue to co-exist regardless of what the fanatic followers of both sides feel. That God is in the science people study pretty much. As if, say someone is looking for a being, they may never find one.
  • ezekiels_oblivion
    ezekiels_oblivion Posts: 200
    I'm an atheist and I 'm not a quitter - I just think that we are way too small in this big confusion called the Universe. As it was nicely put in the X-files: The Truth Is Out There'' Anyhow; hundred people-hundred different points of view.
    En mi vida,
    el oscuro me mantiene
    cuando yo te vi
    en la lluvia me prometiste tu sangre

    Estrella de la mañana
    Samael te persigo a ti
    y si me quedo sin alas
    ademas me muero por ti
  • The Doc
    The Doc Posts: 14
    I've listened to lectures by some atheists who would argue that the man or woman who rescinds reason to faith is the one who has "given up."
  • onelongsong
    onelongsong Posts: 3,517
    Ahnimus wrote:

    Atheism is often categorized as a type of doctrine or religion. Simply stated Atheism is a lack of belief in a deity. Atheists though typically have other common disbeliefs or beliefs.

    so you finally admitt what i've been telling you for weeks. atheism is a form of religion.
  • macgyver06
    macgyver06 Posts: 2,500
    The Doc wrote:
    I've listened to lectures by some atheists who would argue that the man or woman who rescinds reason to faith is the one who has "given up."

    anyone who looks inside and refuses to drown the voices in their heads and feelings inside their chest has not given up. in fact, im starting to believe, that they are just starting to find out the truth. And these actions have nothing to do with religion, regardless of the advertisement you stamp on it.
  • hippiemom
    hippiemom Posts: 3,326
    onelongsong wrote:
    so you finally admitt what i've been telling you for weeks. atheism is a form of religion.
    Definitions of religion:

    "the service and worship of God or the supernatural" - This certainly doesn't apply, as most atheists do not believe in either god or the supernatural, much less worship and serve either one.

    "commitment or devotion to religious faith or observance" - There's no commitment of any kind required to be an atheist. Nothing to join, no observances to make, nothing to be devoted to.

    "a personal set or institutionalized system of religious attitudes, beliefs, and practices" - For this one we need to define "religious." The definition is "relating to or manifesting faithful devotion to an acknowledged ultimate reality or deity," so it doesn't apply to atheism, as there is no agreement on any sort of ultimate reality or deity.

    "a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith" - This one applies to some atheists, but not all. As for myself, the only time I give the topic much thought is when I'm here, so there goes ardor. As for faith, I don't have any ... I think I'm right, obviously, but I freely admit I could be wrong. The only thing I cling to with anything that could be described as ardor is my right to be left alone by fanatics on all sides.
    "Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." ~ MLK, 1963
  • vmfury
    vmfury Posts: 1,091
    One of my friends is an Atheist and we go the rounds constantly. He always wants me to prove God. Simply telling him God and logic do not go hand in hand isn't enough. He wants scientific proof, and unfortunately, there is none. It's all about faith, nothing more, nothing less. I certainly respect anything a person believes in, but it's a waste of time for a believer in God and an Atheist to try to come to an agreement regarding the creation vs. the evolution of things. I usually become extremely frustrated during such conversations. haha. ;)
    We’ll meet again, but not yet…not yet. 
  • onelongsong
    onelongsong Posts: 3,517
    macgyver06 wrote:
    anyone who looks inside and refuses to drown the voices in their heads and feelings inside their chest has not given up. in fact, im starting to believe, that they are just starting to find out the truth. And these actions have nothing to do with religion, regardless of the advertisement you stamp on it.

    i believe athiests have given up searching for enlightenment. ahnimus preaches more than billy graham. every day he's on here preaching how atheism is the "right" belief. i spent the first 16 years of my life going to church and i've never seen a priest preach as much as he does.
  • he still stands
    he still stands Posts: 2,835
    onelongsong wrote:
    so you finally admitt what i've been telling you for weeks. atheism is a form of religion.

    I see what you mean, but there is a key difference here...

    think of the label "anarchist." in the political realm of thought, an anarchist that assembles, or persuades others to see their point of view (similar to an "active atheist") is not really an anarchist. They are a libertarian or a socialist.

    But, an atheist who assembles with other atheists and/or tries to persuade others that their beliefs are fundamentally wrong, is still an atheist. The act of assembling and persuading doesn't negate this. They aren't practicing a form of religion, they are excersizing the bill of rights... which certainly isn't a religion (although it may be the closest thing to religion for some people).

    ... just some random thoughts :)
    Everything not forbidden is compulsory and eveything not compulsory is forbidden. You are free... free to do what the government says you can do.
  • gue_barium
    gue_barium Posts: 5,515
    onelongsong wrote:
    so you finally admitt what i've been telling you for weeks. atheism is a form of religion.


    religion is religion, you can attach any idea to it you want, if the shoe fits:

    "Pearl Jam"

    Look at the religious, faithful flock.
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    except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
  • onelongsong
    onelongsong Posts: 3,517
    vmfury wrote:
    One of my friends is an Atheist and we go the rounds constantly. He always wants me to prove God. Simply telling him God and logic do not go hand in hand isn't enough. He wants scientific proof, and unfortunately, there is none. It's all about faith, nothing more, nothing less. I certainly respect anything a person believes in, but it's a waste of time for a believer in God and an Atheist to try to come to an agreement regarding the creation vs. the evolution of things. I usually become extremely frustrated during such conversations. haha. ;)

    God created science and evolution. he created the perfect cycle of life. everything is constantly changing. everything lives; dies; then decomposes to feed new life.

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