short 9/11 video (includes molten steel columns

1…1314161819…26

Comments

  • mookie9999
    mookie9999 Posts: 4,677
    RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:
    Loizeaux said, "If I were to bring the towers down, I would put explosives in the basement to get the weight of the building to help collapse the structure."



    While the aircraft crashes caused minimal earth shaking, significant earthquakes with unusual spikes occurred at the beginning of each collapse.


    quote]

    So were explosives placed at the base or higher up? Here, they claim at the base. But in some of the videos we are supposed to see the sparks and the "poofs" blowing out the windows much higher up. Which is it?

    Also, do you have the seismic reports from when the planes hit? (If not I will look them up).
    "The leads are weak!"

    "The leads are weak? Fuckin' leads are weak? You're Weak! I've Been in this business 15 years"

    "What's your name?"

    "FUCK YOU! THAT"S MY NAME!"
  • RolandTD20Kdrummer
    RolandTD20Kdrummer Posts: 13,066
    sonicreducer wrote:
    some buildings stand and some buildings fall. that is true, of course. reason being, it depends on where the waves of energy are coming from and if it hits the right frequency to shake it up a bit. you get a nice tune, you get a nice shake.

    It would be interesting to see how much #7 swayed or moved at all. I'm sure it's on video.
    Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
    and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
    over specific principles, goals, and policies.

    http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg

    (\__/)
    ( o.O)
    (")_(")
  • mookie9999
    mookie9999 Posts: 4,677
    RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:
    well I guess they just let it burn until it fell...


    Yeah, that's it! Not having anything to do with the "pull" comment you seem to love, that has been defined earlier. Considering the loss of life that day and the hope of still rescuing people in the rubble, how much effort would you have liked for the rescue workers to place on an empty building (albeit one with very important documents)?
    "The leads are weak!"

    "The leads are weak? Fuckin' leads are weak? You're Weak! I've Been in this business 15 years"

    "What's your name?"

    "FUCK YOU! THAT"S MY NAME!"
  • RolandTD20Kdrummer
    RolandTD20Kdrummer Posts: 13,066
    mookie9999 wrote:
    RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:
    Loizeaux said, "If I were to bring the towers down, I would put explosives in the basement to get the weight of the building to help collapse the structure."



    While the aircraft crashes caused minimal earth shaking, significant earthquakes with unusual spikes occurred at the beginning of each collapse.


    quote]

    So were explosives placed at the base or higher up? Here, they claim at the base. But in some of the videos we are supposed to see the sparks and the "poofs" blowing out the windows much higher up. Which is it?

    Also, do you have the seismic reports from when the planes hit? (If not I will look them up).

    The seismograph can't lie unfortunately. Does it have to be one case or the other?

    They can't put a little here and a little there?

    What it does say, is that it didn't have to be a complete head to toe wiring job like a lot of people think.

    Couple floors here, couple floors there, a good swift kick in the balls. :D

    At least that's what the seismograph "would seem" to show us.
    Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
    and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
    over specific principles, goals, and policies.

    http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg

    (\__/)
    ( o.O)
    (")_(")
  • RolandTD20Kdrummer
    RolandTD20Kdrummer Posts: 13,066
    mookie9999 wrote:
    Yeah, that's it! Not having anything to do with the "pull" comment you seem to love, that has been defined earlier. Considering the loss of life that day and the hope of still rescuing people in the rubble, how much effort would you have liked for the rescue workers to place on an empty building (albeit one with very important documents)?

    ground disturbance + a little fire = perfect demolition style collapse...as Mythbusters says: plausible but not confirmed. :D
    Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
    and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
    over specific principles, goals, and policies.

    http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg

    (\__/)
    ( o.O)
    (")_(")
  • idratherbe
    idratherbe Posts: 367
    69charger wrote:
    No they did not.

    OK, since you say so, I believe you. Nice retorts.

    Anyone else who is interested, this is an hour and a half, but food for thought, made by a self-proclaimed conservative Republican:
    http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8172271955308136871

    Description of the movie is on the right side of the screen.

    ~peace~
    Never allow someone to be your Priority,
    While allowing yourself to be their Option.

    ‹^›_‹(ô¿ô)›_‹^›

    Please visit daily: www.theanimalrescuesite.com
  • RolandTD20Kdrummer
    RolandTD20Kdrummer Posts: 13,066
    People are led to believe that the collapse of a "section" of a building could lead to the total collapse of the building, when in fact there are no examples of total progressive collapse anywhere of steel-framed buildings in existence aside from 9/11. This argument still stands.

    Fires have never caused the total collapse of a steel-framed high-rise building.

    There are a number of examples of severe fires in high-rise buildings, and none caused total collapse events. Fires in the South Tower did not spread, and showed diminishing flames and black smoke. The fires in Building 7 remained limited to small portions of single floors.


    The (Short) History of Fires Downing Steel-Framed Buildings

    WTC North Tower
    date: Feb 1975
    stories: 110
    duration: 3 hours
    floors burned: 7
    collapse: None

    First Interstate Bank
    date: May 1988
    stories: 62
    duration: 4 hours
    floors burned: 4
    collapse: none

    One Meridian Plaza
    date: Feb 1991
    stories: 38
    duration: 18 hours
    floors burned: 8
    collapse: none

    Caracas Tower
    date: Oct 2004
    stories: 56
    duration: 17 hours
    floors burned: 26
    collapse: 2 floors

    WTC North Tower
    date: Sept 2001
    stories: 110
    duration: 1.8 hours
    floors burned: ~6
    collapse: Total

    WTC South Tower
    date: Sept 2001
    stories: 110
    duration: 0.9 hours
    floors burned: ~3
    collapse: Total

    WTC Building 7
    date: Sept 2001
    stories: 47
    duration:3 hours
    floors burned: ?
    collapse: Total

    .
    Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
    and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
    over specific principles, goals, and policies.

    http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg

    (\__/)
    ( o.O)
    (")_(")
  • mookie9999
    mookie9999 Posts: 4,677
    idratherbe wrote:
    thought, made by a self-proclaimed conservative Republican:
    http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8172271955308136871

    I will watch this further, but when within the first minute of the movie I hear the guys credentials described as "I'm a kind of demolition hobbyist" (wonder if that pays good?) followed by him being disturbed by a movie he saw years after 9/11 (I would think as a demo hobbyist he would have been all over this shit since day one) I have some reservations about taking this seriously. But as I stated I will (most likely regrettably) watch this as long as I can.
    "The leads are weak!"

    "The leads are weak? Fuckin' leads are weak? You're Weak! I've Been in this business 15 years"

    "What's your name?"

    "FUCK YOU! THAT"S MY NAME!"
  • mookie9999
    mookie9999 Posts: 4,677
    Four and a half minutes in:

    Les Robertson Structural Engineer of WTC Undated Clip
    "the airplane we envisioned was the largest of its time flying SLOWLY and LOW lost in the fog" Doesn't really compare to full throttle, but maybe they'll cover that. I'll be back, time to heat up some popcorn and enjoy!
    "The leads are weak!"

    "The leads are weak? Fuckin' leads are weak? You're Weak! I've Been in this business 15 years"

    "What's your name?"

    "FUCK YOU! THAT"S MY NAME!"
  • idratherbe
    idratherbe Posts: 367
    mookie9999 wrote:
    I will watch this further, but when within the first minute of the movie I hear the guys credentials described as "I'm a kind of demolition hobbyist" (wonder if that pays good?) followed by him being disturbed by a movie he saw years after 9/11 (I would think as a demo hobbyist he would have been all over this shit since day one) I have some reservations about taking this seriously. But as I stated I will (most likely regrettably) watch this as long as I can.

    Yup, reserve judgement till you see it. He's obviously a movie hobbyist too, now. :) But I've seen some pretty hard core "that can't be possible" people rubbing their chins thoughtfully after seeing this.

    Thank you for playing; come back soon! ;)

    ~peace~
    Never allow someone to be your Priority,
    While allowing yourself to be their Option.

    ‹^›_‹(ô¿ô)›_‹^›

    Please visit daily: www.theanimalrescuesite.com
  • mookie9999
    mookie9999 Posts: 4,677
    Talking about the official report describing the heat inside

    "...temperatures high enough to weaken steel, but people in the towers did not report such heat." I wonder what the people who jumped out of the towers opinons are about the level of heat. I must say I am enjoying the awkward upbeat music playing over the history of steel.
    "The leads are weak!"

    "The leads are weak? Fuckin' leads are weak? You're Weak! I've Been in this business 15 years"

    "What's your name?"

    "FUCK YOU! THAT"S MY NAME!"
  • RolandTD20Kdrummer
    RolandTD20Kdrummer Posts: 13,066
    mookie9999 wrote:
    Four and a half minutes in:

    Les Robertson Structural Engineer of WTC Undated Clip
    "the airplane we envisioned was the largest of its time flying SLOWLY and LOW lost in the fog" Doesn't really compare to full throttle, but maybe they'll cover that. I'll be back, time to heat up some popcorn and enjoy!

    The designed impact speed was 180mph which is the maximum allowable speed for that airspace.
    Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
    and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
    over specific principles, goals, and policies.

    http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg

    (\__/)
    ( o.O)
    (")_(")
  • mookie9999
    mookie9999 Posts: 4,677
    RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:
    The designed impact speed was 180mph which is the maximum allowable speed for that airspace.

    The maximum allowable speed for that airspace? So are you saying the pilots were law abiding up until the point of slamming into the building by maintaining 180 mph? Didn't see that on the video. Am interested in the speed at which they hit the buildings. I will search later. Back to my flick.
    "The leads are weak!"

    "The leads are weak? Fuckin' leads are weak? You're Weak! I've Been in this business 15 years"

    "What's your name?"

    "FUCK YOU! THAT"S MY NAME!"
  • therover
    therover Posts: 88
    RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:
    People are led to believe that the collapse of a "section" of a building could lead to the total collapse of the building, when in fact there are no examples of total progressive collapse anywhere of steel-framed buildings in existence aside from 9/11. This argument still stands.

    Fires have never caused the total collapse of a steel-framed high-rise building.

    There are a number of examples of severe fires in high-rise buildings, and none caused total collapse events. Fires in the South Tower did not spread, and showed diminishing flames and black smoke. The fires in Building 7 remained limited to small portions of single floors.


    The (Short) History of Fires Downing Steel-Framed Buildings

    WTC North Tower
    date: Feb 1975
    stories: 110
    duration: 3 hours
    floors burned: 7
    collapse: None

    First Interstate Bank
    date: May 1988
    stories: 62
    duration: 4 hours
    floors burned: 4
    collapse: none

    One Meridian Plaza
    date: Feb 1991
    stories: 38
    duration: 18 hours
    floors burned: 8
    collapse: none

    Caracas Tower
    date: Oct 2004
    stories: 56
    duration: 17 hours
    floors burned: 26
    collapse: 2 floors

    WTC North Tower
    date: Sept 2001
    stories: 110
    duration: 1.8 hours
    floors burned: ~6
    collapse: Total

    WTC South Tower
    date: Sept 2001
    stories: 110
    duration: 0.9 hours
    floors burned: ~3
    collapse: Total

    WTC Building 7
    date: Sept 2001
    stories: 47
    duration:3 hours
    floors burned: ?
    collapse: Total

    .

    Interstate Bank Building

    This is in California, built with earthquakes in mind.


    http://www.lafire.com/famous_fires/880504_1stInterstateFire/FEMA-TecReport/FEMA-report.htm

    "Unusually good application of fire resistive coating helped maintain structural integrity in fire."




    One Meridan Plaza

    http://www.usfa.dhs.gov/downloads/pdf/publications/tr-049.pdf

    "Prior to deciding to evacuate the building, firefighters noticed significant structural displacement occurring in the stair enclosures. A command officer indicated that cracks large enough to place a man’s fist through developed at one point. One of the granite exterior wall panels on the east stair enclosure was dislodged by the thermal expansion of the steel framing behind it. After the fire, there was evident significant structural damage to horizontal steel members and floor sections on most of the fire damaged floors. Beams and girders sagged and twisted -- some as much as three feet --under severe fire exposures, and fissures developed in the reinforced concrete floor assemblies in many places. Despite this extraordinary exposure, the columns continued to support their loads without obvious damage."


    Caracas Tower

    http://www.construction.com/NewsCenter/Headlines/ENR/20041115a.asp




    There wasn't any damage to the cores of these building prior to fires. There would have been in the case of WTC from the impact of the airplanes and resulting explosions of the planes.
  • RolandTD20Kdrummer
    RolandTD20Kdrummer Posts: 13,066
    mookie9999 wrote:
    Talking about the official report describing the heat inside

    "...temperatures high enough to weaken steel, but people in the towers did not report such heat." I wonder what the people who jumped out of the towers opinons are about the level of heat.

    I read that the towers were designed to seal automatically so that the people in the above floors were literally trapped in. In an attempt to escape from the smoke, some unfortunate people were probably smashing windows to get fresh air. This would probably amplify or progress heat pathways in and around the broken windows, and the people trying to breathe would eventually be literally forced out of the window as the fire explores this new path.
    Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
    and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
    over specific principles, goals, and policies.

    http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg

    (\__/)
    ( o.O)
    (")_(")
  • RolandTD20Kdrummer
    RolandTD20Kdrummer Posts: 13,066
    mookie9999 wrote:
    The maximum allowable speed for that airspace? So are you saying the pilots were law abiding up until the point of slamming into the building by maintaining 180 mph? Didn't see that on the video. Am interested in the speed at which they hit the buildings. I will search later. Back to my flick.

    no...I'm clarifying the designed impact speed value. I just know it.
    Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
    and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
    over specific principles, goals, and policies.

    http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg

    (\__/)
    ( o.O)
    (")_(")
  • mookie9999
    mookie9999 Posts: 4,677
    RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:
    no...I'm clarifying the designed impact speed value. I just know it.

    Fair enough. But wouldn't you consider/describe 180mph by a plane that could travel in excess of 600mph, slow?
    "The leads are weak!"

    "The leads are weak? Fuckin' leads are weak? You're Weak! I've Been in this business 15 years"

    "What's your name?"

    "FUCK YOU! THAT"S MY NAME!"
  • mookie9999
    mookie9999 Posts: 4,677
    My buddy on here Specifics (who has experience blowing up things, legally) replied earlier to my queries about the likelihood of success in taking the buildings down with explosives. He had no doubt that whoever would have set the explosives would have been successful in taking down the towers. Now the video I'm watching says that there was explosions prior to the plane striking the tower. I didn't see that on the seismic report. I guess they didn't want to take the building down the first time, but rather prep it for an hour later? This video is going down in flames. But I will continue on. 1 hour to go.
    "The leads are weak!"

    "The leads are weak? Fuckin' leads are weak? You're Weak! I've Been in this business 15 years"

    "What's your name?"

    "FUCK YOU! THAT"S MY NAME!"
  • RolandTD20Kdrummer
    RolandTD20Kdrummer Posts: 13,066
    mookie9999 wrote:
    Fair enough. But wouldn't you consider/describe 180mph by a plane that could travel in excess of 600mph, slow?

    The impact was completely negligible on the stability or integrity of the building regardless of speed.

    The steel core was a solid interconnected cage of steel. I'd like to know where that all went.
    Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
    and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
    over specific principles, goals, and policies.

    http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg

    (\__/)
    ( o.O)
    (")_(")
  • RolandTD20Kdrummer
    RolandTD20Kdrummer Posts: 13,066
    A little cinematic and lengthy, but if you watch, you gain an entirely new appreciation for what the cores of the WTC towers really were like.

    I guess back to the "my...that's one hell of a hot open air fire" reasoning.. :rolleyes:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qJ11i6fi7KQ

    you wanna see something absolutely hilarious? look how the BBC represents the WTC cores in the news...

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/1540044.stm

    .
    Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
    and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
    over specific principles, goals, and policies.

    http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg

    (\__/)
    ( o.O)
    (")_(")

Categories