Hello from Israel

Byrnzie · July 2006

Aggression Under False Pretenses
by Ismail Haniyeh
July 11, 2006

GAZA, Palestine -- As Americans commemorated their annual celebration of independence from colonial occupation, rejoicing in their democratic institutions, we Palestinians were yet again besieged by our occupiers, who destroy our roads and buildings, our power stations and water plants, and who attack our very means of civil administration. Our homes and government offices are shelled, our parliamentarians taken prisoner and threatened with prosecution.

The current Gaza invasion is only the latest effort to destroy the results of fair and free elections held early this year. It is the explosive follow-up to a five-month campaign of economic and diplomatic warfare directed by the United States and Israel. The stated intention of that strategy was to force the average Palestinian to "reconsider" her vote when faced with deepening hardship; its failure was predictable, and the new overt military aggression and collective punishment are its logical fulfillment. The "kidnapped" Israeli Cpl. Gilad Shalit is only a pretext for a job scheduled months ago.

In addition to removing our democratically elected government, Israel wants to sow dissent among Palestinians by claiming that there is a serious leadership rivalry among us. I am compelled to dispel this notion definitively. The Palestinian leadership is firmly embedded in the concept of Islamic shura , or mutual consultation; suffice it to say that while we may have differing opinions, we are united in mutual respect and focused on the goal of serving our people. Furthermore, the invasion of Gaza and the kidnapping of our leaders and government officials are meant to undermine the recent accords reached between the government party and our brothers and sisters in Fatah and other factions, on achieving consensus for resolving the conflict. Yet Israeli collective punishment only strengthens our collective resolve to work together.

As I inspect the ruins of our infrastructure -- the largess of donor nations and international efforts all turned to rubble once more by F-16s and American-made missiles -- my thoughts again turn to the minds of Americans. What do they think of this?

They think, doubtless, of the hostage soldier, taken in battle -- yet thousands of Palestinians, including hundreds of women and children, remain in Israeli jails for resisting the illegal, ongoing occupation that is condemned by international law. They think of the pluck and "toughness" of Israel, "standing up" to "terrorists." Yet a nuclear Israel possesses the 13th-largest military force on the planet, one that is used to rule an area about the size of New Jersey and whose adversaries there have no conventional armed forces. Who is the underdog, supposedly America's traditional favorite, in this case?

I hope that Americans will give careful and well-informed thought to root causes and historical realities, in which case I think they will question why a supposedly "legitimate" state such as Israel has had to conduct decades of war against a subject refugee population without ever achieving its goals.

Israel's unilateral movements of the past year will not lead to peace. These acts -- the temporary withdrawal of forces from Gaza, the walling off of the West Bank -- are not strides toward resolution but empty, symbolic acts that fail to address the underlying conflict. Israel's nearly complete control over the lives of Palestinians is never in doubt, as confirmed by the humanitarian and economic suffering of the Palestinians since the January elections. Israel's ongoing policies of expansion, military control and assassination mock any notion of sovereignty or bilateralism. Its "separation barrier," running across our land, is hardly a good-faith gesture toward future coexistence.

But there is a remedy, and while it is not easy it is consistent with our long-held beliefs. Palestinian priorities include recognition of the core dispute over the land of historical Palestine and the rights of all its people; resolution of the refugee issue from 1948; reclaiming all lands occupied in 1967; and stopping Israeli attacks, assassinations and military expansion. Contrary to popular depictions of the crisis in the American media, the dispute is not only about Gaza and the West Bank; it is a wider national conflict that can be resolved only by addressing the full dimensions of Palestinian national rights in an integrated manner. This means statehood for the West Bank and Gaza, a capital in Arab East Jerusalem, and resolving the 1948 Palestinian refugee issue fairly, on the basis of international legitimacy and established law. Meaningful negotiations with a non-expansionist, law-abiding Israel can proceed only after this tremendous labor has begun.

Surely the American people grow weary of this folly, after 50 years and $160 billion in taxpayer support for Israel's war-making capacity -- its "defense." Some Americans, I believe, must be asking themselves if all this blood and treasure could not have bought more tangible results for Palestine if only U.S. policies had been predicated from the start on historical truth, equity and justice.

However, we do not want to live on international welfare and American handouts. We want what Americans enjoy -- democratic rights, economic sovereignty and justice. We thought our pride in conducting the fairest elections in the Arab world might resonate with the United States and its citizens. Instead, our new government was met from the very beginning by acts of explicit, declared sabotage by the White House. Now this aggression continues against 3.9 million civilians living in the world's largest prison camps. America's complacency in the face of these war crimes is, as usual, embedded in the coded rhetorical green light: "Israel has a right to defend itself." Was Israel defending itself when it killed eight family members on a Gaza beach last month or three members of the Hajjaj family on Saturday, among them 6-year-old Rawan? I refuse to believe that such inhumanity sits well with the American public.

We present this clear message: If Israel will not allow Palestinians to live in peace, dignity and national integrity, Israelis themselves will not be able to enjoy those same rights. Meanwhile, our right to defend ourselves from occupying soldiers and aggression is a matter of law, as settled in the Fourth Geneva Convention. If Israel is prepared to negotiate seriously and fairly, and resolve the core 1948 issues, rather than the secondary ones from 1967, a fair and permanent peace is possible. Based on a hudna (comprehensive cessation of hostilities for an agreed time), the Holy Land still has an opportunity to be a peaceful and stable economic powerhouse for all the Semitic people of the region. If Americans only knew the truth, possibility might become reality.

The writer is prime minister of the Palestinian National Authority

shiraz · July 2006

inmytree wrote:

with all due respect, what does the above have to do with my question...? From the report I viewed, the leader of Hezbollah stated many of the prisoners have been in prison for many years, I think he said 20....and that Israel would not negotiate with them...

and there seems to be some confusion about exactly where the soldiers were when they were taken...I was hoping you could clear that up...

since you are in Israel...

I tought I answered that in other posts around here: The whole thing was INSIDE Israel. Those soliders were in patrol jeeps near the board line (the Israeli side), Hezbollah crossed the board via Lebanon in order to attack them. It worked.

The prisoners have been in prison for many years (20) because they were sent there during the 1982 war we had with Lebanon. We are talking about terrorists, same thing like the one the U.S sent to prison not too long ago.

Another thing I have to say for everyone: We aint happy with the situation, we didn't want to come back there, we DO have a problem with targeting civilian areas at BOTH SIDES. The reason we had to bomb airports & seaports is stopping our kidnapped soliders from being taken to Iran (as the Hezbollah tried to many times before). Trust me, no one here likes what's going on.

danmac · July 2006

shiraz wrote:

The reason we had to bomb airports & seaports is stopping our kidnapped soliders from being taken to Iran (as the Hezbollah tried to many times before). Trust me, no one here likes what's going on.

What a load of bullshit. I call troll. I call anybody to show me where this posters IP address is from. Coincidence they perked up on the very day all this shit started happening and we started debating it?
I think not.

Show me when and where Hezbollah transported prisoners to Iran. Please, im all ears. And when you find that you cannot prove the lies the Israeli media and government throw at you, maybe you wil truly question the actions of your Government (if you are Israeli)

So, this terror organisation will use an international (Civillian) airport to transport prisoners? And MOSSAD or CIA know nothing of it?

Seaports? Iran is to the East of Lebanon, the Mediterranean to the West. Go figure.

Truly, if you do not like what was going on, make your government comply with ALL UN FUCKING RESOLUTIONS PASSED AGAINST ISRAEL SINCE 1967 !!

A 2 state solution is feasible, is wanted, is what wil make all this go away.

You are as guilty as the people who you voted for, who order the massacres and internment of a million Palestinian children.

Blood is on the hands of ALL ISRAELIS this morning.
Enjoy it, for as long as your bastard hands can.

ConX · July 2006

Palestine has pretty much been an Arab area for the past 1500 years, quite how Jewish people are "supposed" to have control of it is beyond me.......

Jews were expelled from Arab countries due to the Arab's war with Israel, which is really not that different from when America interned every of its citizens of Japanese descent in camps during WWII.......

Oh and Condolisa Rice says: "It is important that action is taken to ensure the Israeli hostages' safe return and it is important that the international community continues to condemn acts of terrorism"

^ Lol! Frickin' Republicans, what the hell do you call 100 Lebanese civilians dead, Lebanon's Int. Airport attacked, it's ports blockaded and its fuel reserves bombarded if not an act of terrorism?

twisztad · July 2006

danmac wrote:

What a load of bullshit. I call troll. I call anybody to show me where this posters IP address is from. Coincidence they perked up on the very day all this shit started happening and we started debating it?
I think not.

Show me when and where Hezbollah transported prisoners to Iran. Please, im all ears. And when you find that you cannot prove the lies the Israeli media and government throw at you, maybe you wil truly question the actions of your Government (if you are Israeli)

So, this terror organisation will use an international (Civillian) airport to transport prisoners? And MOSSAD or CIA know nothing of it?

Seaports? Iran is to the East of Lebanon, the Mediterranean to the West. Go figure.

Truly, if you do not like what was going on, make your government comply with ALL UN FUCKING RESOLUTIONS PASSED AGAINST ISRAEL SINCE 1967 !!

A 2 state solution is feasible, is wanted, is what wil make all this go away.

You are as guilty as the people who you voted for, who order the massacres and internment of a million Palestinian children.

Blood is on the hands of ALL ISRAELIS this morning.
Enjoy it, for as long as your bastard hands can.

What a sad sad man you are, have you ever lived under oppression. I have, My whole life, Living under the aparthied Goverment of South Africa. I know how it feels to be oppressed. I fought the goverment, I stood up for my rights, nut not once, not once did we target civilians and children to get our point across. SO Palestines, fuck them they get no sympathy from me.

ConX · July 2006

twisztad wrote:

What a sad sad man you are, have you ever lived under oppression. I have, My whole life, Living under the aparthied Goverment of South Africa. I know how it feels to be oppressed. I fought the goverment, I stood up for my rights, nut not once, not once did we target civilians and children to get our point across. SO Palestines, fuck them they get no sympathy from me.

Kudos to you for what you did, but you were fighting for ethnic equality, whilst Arabs are fighting for LAND that was taken from them, it's a little different................

Do Israelis get sympathy from you? They kill just as many if not more civilians than the arabs........

twisztad · July 2006

ConX wrote:

Kudos to you for what you did, but you were fighting for ethnic equality, whilst Arabs are fighting for LAND that was taken from them, it's a little different................

Do Israelis get sympathy from you? They kill just as many if not more civilians than the arabs........

It was just not about ethnic equality. They stole our land too! Forcibly removed us from land so that they could construct holiday getaways. Millions of us were displaced. So there is no difference.

shiraz · July 2006

Scubascott wrote:

Hi Shiraz and everyone. I haven't been around these boards for a long time. I knew that the latest news from Israel always sparks a stupid debate full of insults and name calling, so I just came over out of curiousity to see if anything intelligent had been said this time.

I spent some time in Israel recently, and I have a lot of friends there, some of whom have family in the Golan and upper Galilee, so I've been a bit concerned for their safety over the last couple of days.

I'm really sorry to hear about your city being attacked. I got a little taste of what its like to be scared like that while I was there, and I can only imagine what it feels like to be living with that fear all the time.

I've never been one to take sides in this conflict. I've heard the story from both sides, and I really think that both sides are as much to blame as each other. The media in Israel is extremely biased against both the palestinians and the Hezbollah, as might be expected.

Whether or not the Hezbollah would have ever considered negotiating with the Israeli government I don't know, but it seems to me to be irrelevant. As far Olmert and his government is concerned the Hezbollah are a terrorist organisation which therefore can not be negotiated with. One of the biggest problems seems to be that the Israeli government never even considers diplomacy as an option, but instead prefers to use force.

Anyway, no matter which side you want to take, remember that civilians like Shiraz didn't ask for this to happen, and the reality is that their lives are being threatend, so give her some slack.

Hi,

The Israeli government never even considers diplomacy as an option: I don't agree. We did use diplomacy with Saadat, king Husien, Abu mazen & even Arafat. The thing is, there's a problem to use diplomacy while the other side (Hamas or Hezbollah) thinks you do not have the right to exist. It's like the U.S starts negotiating with Bin laden & his organization at the moment.

I agree with the rest of your post.

ConX · July 2006

twisztad wrote:

It was just not about ethnic equality. They stole our land too! Forcibly removed us from land so that they could construct holiday getaways. Millions of us were displaced. So there is no difference.

Very well but there still is difference, the way the conflict between Israel and the Arabs began is entirely different and there is much more killing and violence on both sides in Israel etc.

It's more of a WAR if you get me...... What South African black people did to fight their opprsseion was beyond fantastic but the history of the middle east conflict and its current state is still not exactly the same as fighting against aparthied.......

Do you sympathise with Isarael?

ConX · July 2006

shiraz wrote:

Hi,

The Israeli government never even considers diplomacy as an option: I don't agree. We did use diplomacy with Saadat, king Husien, Abu mazen & even Arafat. The thing is, there's a problem to use diplomacy while the other side (Hamas or Hezbollah) thinks you do not have the right to exist. It's like the U.S starts negotiating with Bin laden & his organization at the moment.

I agree with the rest of your post.

Your government holds the "Lebanese government" responsible for Hezbollah's actions, when in fact that government has denied responsibility and is clearly not to blame. Your country was bombing innocent Lebanese people before Lebanon's government had even responded to your country's unfair accusations.......

danmac · July 2006

shiraz wrote:

Hi,

The Israeli government never even considers diplomacy as an option: I don't agree. We did use diplomacy with Saadat, king Husien, Abu mazen & even Arafat. The thing is, there's a problem to use diplomacy while the other side (Hamas or Hezbollah) thinks you do not have the right to exist. It's like the U.S starts negotiating with Bin laden & his organization at the moment.

I agree with the rest of your post.

Err, no.

Which US territory is Bin Laden and Al-Queda illegally occupying and interring 1.45 million AMericans?

Heatherj43 · July 2006

What a fricking mess! The whole world has gone crazy.
I dread to even think where all this is going to take us all.
Not good at all.
Peace and love to everyone. Stay safe.

twisztad · July 2006

ConX wrote:

Very well but there still is difference, the way the conflict between Israel and the Arabs began is entirely different and there is much more killing and violence on both sides in Israel etc.

It's more of a WAR if you get me...... What South African black people did to fight their opprsseion was beyond fantastic but the history of the middle east conflict and its current state is still not exactly the same as fighting against aparthied.......

Do you sympathise with Isarael?

Much more killing. 16 June 1976 Over 200 school kids gunned down by police in one afternoon, much more killed afterwards. for protesting for the right to be taught in there language. First child to be killed Hector Peterson 13 years old. Look at the image below.
http://www.underthesamesun.org/images/hector%20peterson.jpg

That image will be burned into me for my whole life.

Amandla

danmac · July 2006

twisztad wrote:

What a sad sad man you are, have you ever lived under oppression. I have, My whole life, Living under the aparthied Goverment of South Africa. I know how it feels to be oppressed. I fought the goverment, I stood up for my rights, nut not once, not once did we target civilians and children to get our point across. SO Palestines, fuck them they get no sympathy from me.

Do you want me to educate you on how not whiter than white Nelson Mandela, the ANC, and Inkatha were in the Apartheid years?

Remember the Church Street bombing? A massacre that Mandela publicly stated, in his autobiography, was an act of terrorism he "signed off" with.

What of the ANC torture and re-education camps in Uganda and Botswana?

In my opionion, what Mandela and others did, whatever they did, was justified. As is the Palestinians. For townships, see Gaza and The West Bank, but throw in alot more barbed wire, fighter jets, economic blockades, nuclear weapons, and the backing of the worlds leading nations.

Then, just maybe, you can see the differences, and the similarities, between the struggle for freedom in South Africa, and the struggle for freedom in Palestine.

Peace.

Byrnzie · July 2006

shiraz wrote:

Hi,

The Israeli government never even considers diplomacy as an option: I don't agree. We did use diplomacy with Saadat, king Husien, Abu mazen & even Arafat. The thing is, there's a problem to use diplomacy while the other side (Hamas or Hezbollah) thinks you do not have the right to exist. It's like the U.S starts negotiating with Bin laden & his organization at the moment.

I agree with the rest of your post.

You appear to choose to forget that Israel has been defying international law and behaving like a pariah in the region for the past 38 years by continuing it's illegal military occupation of the West bank and Gaza.
I quote from the above article by the prime minister of the Palestinian National Authority...

"If Israel is prepared to negotiate seriously and fairly, and resolve the core 1948 issues, rather than the secondary ones from 1967, a fair and permanent peace is possible. Based on a hudna (comprehensive cessation of hostilities for an agreed time), the Holy Land still has an opportunity to be a peaceful and stable economic powerhouse for all the Semitic people of the region. If Americans only knew the truth, possibility might become reality."

twisztad · July 2006

danmac wrote:

Do you want me to educate you on how not whiter than white Nelson Mandela, the ANC, and Inkatha were in the Apartheid years?

Remember the Church Street bombing? A massacre that Mandela publicly stated, in his autobiography, was an act of terrorism he "signed off" with.

What of the ANC torture and re-education camps in Uganda and Botswana?

In my opionion, what Mandela and others did, whatever they did, was justified. As is the Palestinians. For townships, see Gaza and The West Bank, but throw in alot more barbed wire, fighter jets, economic blockades, nuclear weapons, and the backing of the worlds leading nations.

Then, just maybe, you can see the differences, and the similarities, between the struggle for freedom in South Africa, and the struggle for freedom in Palestine.

Peace.

Attacking Nelson Mandela are you. Do you have any idea what that man did for my country, and still at the age of 88 is doing for my country. And yes you stated the "terrorist" activities of the Anc. Did you forget that the NP and AWB was using the bible and churches to attack my very exsistance, stating that the bible says that im not human, and holding meetings and gatherings in churches. And when did we ever use suicide bombers to kill children.

You want to talk about barbed wire and fighter jets, We were systematically killed of, Armoured Trucks (http://www.un.org/av/photo/subjects/images/155579.jpg) with barbed spweing out the back, you couldnt walk anywhere without a pass. There was areas that you just could not go into. You had to travel outrageously far and out of the way just to get home. You were attacked by police dogs daily for no reason http://www.contactpressimages.com/portfolios/reininger/main_pix/rein_port1h.jpg, beaten for no reason, killed left in the street for no reason. imprisoned for no reason. Had no clean water, no electricity, no hygiene services.

So please tell me a different story.

twisztad · July 2006

One of the greatest men to ever set foot on mother earth, and the greatest man alive today.

Nelson Rolihlahla MANDELA
http://www.anc.org.za/icons/people/nelsonm.jpg

walkthamile · July 2006

shiraz wrote:

I just have to clarify some facts:

Yesterday the Hezbollah crossed Israel's northern board via Lebanon, and attacked two patrol jeeps using RPG's deep into Israeli territory. They ended up with killing 3 Israeli's soldiers and kidnapping 2 of them. Israel immediately sent a tank in order to chase the Hezbollah terrorists, but they managed to bomb it and kill yet another 4 Israelis troops & injured 3 more. Israel decided to bomb some roads & bridges in southern Lebanon, in order to stop the terrorists from getting too far away with the Israeli hijacked soldiers (as they try to do many times in the past). It didn't work out. Instead, Hezbollah had started massive missals attack towards large civilian populations in northern parts of Israel. To this point they killed 2 Israeli civilians, injured 90, and caused lots of property damage. They are still shooting while I'm writing this post.

All the massive Israeli attack toward southern Lebanon is a *response* to Hezbollah's deliberate constant shooting towards Israelis civilians since last morning. It has nothing to do with Gaza and the occupied territories in southern Israel. Israel moved out of Lebanon 6 years ago and never went back. During those years Hezbollah kept shooting missals towards Israel from time to time, and even kidnapped & killed 3 Israelis soldiers (the same way they did yesterday). Israel never responded to all of the above, but yesterday it was too much – Hezbollah literally started a deliberate massive attack towards Israeli civilians FOR NO REASON.

Ok, they've just shot 2 missals at my hometown, port city of Haifa, for the very first time in history. That means really bad news for everybody.

Fuck.

I really feel for you, but I still think that the Israelis reaction in Beirut was extreme. This situation has escalated because of their reaction.

far too many civilians have lost their life because of the action taken by Israel. Totally unwarranted.

polaris · July 2006

twisztad wrote:

One of the greatest men to ever set foot on mother earth, and the greatest man alive today.

Nelson Rolihlahla MANDELA
http://www.anc.org.za/icons/people/nelsonm.jpg

the biggest difference between apartheid south africa and the middle east is that there isn't the lone world's super power backing the regime ... if white south africa had US backing - apartheid would still be happening ...

twisztad · July 2006

NO The biggest difference is that the rest of the world just didnt care and turned a blind eye, they always turn a blind eye when it comes to Africa.

Hello from Israel

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