R.I.P Saddam Hussein

Ahnimus · December 2006

Abookamongstthemany wrote:

I'm sorry, you are absolutely right, Ahnimus. Thank you. I think I'm just a bit more weary with you sometimes concerning my ability to detect sarcasm. I knew we were on the same page and should have responded.

Yea, I'm too damn serious usually.

No need to apologize, I honestly never expected you to acknowledge it. I'm just teasing.

Ahnimus · December 2006

Jeanie wrote:

Sorry Ahnimus, it's really difficult to understand where you are coming from some times. I have mentioned that you can be a little scary!;) I'll go back and read it all again now with new eyes.

Well you are awfully nice to me considering you find me scary.

I really appreciate that.

Ahnimus · December 2006

Jeanie wrote:

I completely agree with this Ahnimus. I really don't see what purpose killing another serves as a deterent. It only makes the one meting out the punishment less and all of us lesser for allowing it. I believe that there is good and evil in EVERY person. Just the degree varies. What's that quote? I think, "There are no bad people only bad acts."

Well, that is the thing. Look beneath the surface. Because there are no bad people. We all make mistakes, some mistakes are more severe than others. Life is one long learning process. The things we take for granted were learned when we were children. Just imagine growing up in a different environment and your whole life changes.

I know I would like sushi if I grew up in Japan. But I don't, I grew up in Canada and neither of my parents liked sushi, so I never ate it. Even taste adapts to experience. The foods we consume as children become the foods we love. How does that go? "My parents always made me eat peas, and I hated peas, but now I love 'em!".

Open · December 2006

BarkingDogs wrote:

stop it hell...i hope they ship his corpse over to the states and let some of the iraqis here tie a chain around that stretched out neck of his and take him for a good ole country drag....stop ever couple of miles and piss on the corpse to cool it off...

I'm ahead, I'm a man
I'm the first mammal to wear pants, yeah
I'm at peace with my lust
I can kill 'cause in God I trust, yeah

Jeanie · December 2006

Ahnimus wrote:

Well you are awfully nice to me considering you find me scary.

I really appreciate that.

My pleasure and happy to be nice to you although sometimes I suspect a little foolhardy!;) The other night, I was discussing with a friend a thread you had been posting on that I wanted to respond to but said it'll be like poking a lion with a little stick!;) You need to be prepared! I think I've mentioned before I got you pegged as a Caramelo Koala anyways!

sponger · December 2006

If the Iraqis had overthrown Saddam themselves, then I for some reason would have less of a problem with his hanging. But, the US basically handed him over to them on a silver platter. I dont exactly know why, but I perceive that as fundamentally different from their having overthrown and captured him themselves.

I think if a person is going to take another person's life, that person should at least earn the right to do it. Otherwise, it's like hunting. To me, what makes hunting wrong is that it is really an unfair sport for the animal. The hunter, the coward that he is, shouldn't have the right to kill the animal if he can't kill it with his bare hands. Otherwise, it's like cheating.

Of course, the exception to that is when the hunter is really hunting for food that he otherwise would not be able to get. And the parallel to that is the Iraqi people killing Saddam because that is the only way to rid the country of his influence. We know that not to be the case.

So, in essence, it's like the Iraqi people are a bunch of cowards who in fact are so cowardly that they pretend as though they've earned the right to kill Saddam Hussein. The truth again is that they didn't earn that right. By killing him now, they are just showing to the world how much they've really wanted to kill him all along, but just didn't have the guts to do it themselves. They rather their families and friends get tortured and executed before risking their own necks. If a guy like Saddam ever came to California, you had better believe I'd be loading my rifle and heading right on over to his house before he lays a finger on anyone close to me. If I die in the process, so be it. If I hide away like a coward and let someone else kill him, then I had better be either really forgiving or just stay out of sight. The Iraqi people are doing neither, and that is what makes them an even sadder nation of people than before Saddam was removed from power.

So, I'm saying is that Saddam deserved better not because he is a fellow human being, but because he at least earned his way to power. He fought his way to the top of a regime that was just as bloody and crooked as any other. What he accomplished took balls and cunning. Meanwhile, the Iraqi people hid in fear and cowardice under this brutal dictatorship. They were accomplices in their own victimization. That is why their right to kill saddam should be stripped from them until they understand that in spite of his capture and imprisonment, he is more of a man and more deserving of life than any Iraqi who voted for his death.

Jeanie · December 2006

Ahnimus wrote:

Well, that is the thing. Look beneath the surface. Because there are no bad people. We all make mistakes, some mistakes are more severe than others. Life is one long learning process. The things we take for granted were learned when we were children. Just imagine growing up in a different environment and your whole life changes.

I know I would like sushi if I grew up in Japan. But I don't, I grew up in Canada and neither of my parents liked sushi, so I never ate it. Even taste adapts to experience. The foods we consume as children become the foods we love. How does that go? "My parents always made me eat peas, and I hated peas, but now I love 'em!".

I think people can learn to be bad and choose to continue being bad, do something bad and then continue to make bad choices and never rectify that in themselves. Some people do bad, learn from being bad and don't repeat their mistakes. It only takes the influence of one mostly good person to help change that. Unfortunately those opportunities don't present themselves for everyone. And as to peas! Well! Isn't that parental brainwashing at work!!! It's called nurture I believe! Good thing my folks don't like tripe is all I can say!!

:D:D

Ahnimus · December 2006

Jeanie wrote:

I think people can learn to be bad and choose to continue being bad, do something bad and then continue to make bad choices and never rectify that in themselves. Some people do bad, learn from being bad and don't repeat their mistakes. It only takes the influence of one mostly good person to help change that. Unfortunately those opportunities don't present themselves for everyone. And as to peas! Well! Isn't that parental brainwashing at work!!! It's called nurture I believe! Good thing my folks don't like tripe is all I can say!! :D:D

A little while ago someone posted last words of inmates being executed in Texas. I read through a lot of them. Every last one of them had a message for someone they loved. A parent, a sibling, a friend, they all felt compassion for at least one person. I think if they didn't, that would be cause for their behavior as well. It implies to me that they had problems with society in general.

Have you ever noticed that people attribute cause incorrectly all the time. Some people call it passing the buck. People will perform their daily routines and any hurdles they encounter they blame some one or some thing for. Very rarely do they attribute it to themselves. It was bad luck, or that person screwed me. If something good happens, it's karma, or it's their personal accomplishment. People will actually know the root cause of the event and still attribute it to something else for personal satisfaction. It's my belief that this emotional state is a cultural phenomena. It's learned behavior from centuries of cultural evolution. If you go to a different culture, people behave vary differently, but in some ways the same, from thousands and millions of years of human development.

There is no way to prove mathematically that the prenatal environment, infancy, childhood, adolescence, adulthood, social interaction, relationships, culture, all the experiences and stages of human development, individually, culturally and historically actually is what people are. That's why it's called a soft-science. Humans are chaotic so they are hard to understand. And some of them behave unacceptably, but we are all fucked up, I know that much.

sponger · December 2006

There was a study released not too long ago which said that when women are pregnant with male fetuses, the woman's immune system detects the male hormones from the fetus and sends antibodies to attack it. They think this might be a contributing factor in behavioral disorders amongst males.

Kann · December 2006

hippiemom wrote:

On the other hand, here we have Saddam ... tried, convicted and executed within mere months. How is it that this country, the very antithesis of stability, was able to withstand what the United States wouldn't even consider?

It is a joke of a trial. I can't even understand how someone accused of more than 10 years worth of crimes can be tried in a few months.
They didn't even convict him for everything he did... talk about closure.
That's 2 ex-dictators dead in a year though.

sponger · December 2006

I personally don't really care if the trial was fair or not. He obviously did those things. Prolonging that trial for the sake of thoroughness would've been a waste of time. It would be like giving John Gotti presumable innocence when his captains are sitting right there pointing him out as the Don.

Byrnzie · December 2006

Skitch Patterson wrote:

Sorry sister, but the world is short one man who was responsible for the death of hundreds of thousands.

Regardless of how it happened, or who put him in power in the first place... there is one less terrible person on this planet. But please, feel free to continue to blame it on the idiot box, or the media, or everyone with a different view than you being a "mindless sheep".

There is a big difference between feeling relief (or even joy) in the death of a murderer and actually BEING a murderer.

So by following this same logic I take it you'd feel the exact same way about George Bush and Rumsfeld being hanged for crimes against humanity and for the death of hundreds of thousands?

Byrnzie · December 2006

Skitch Patterson wrote:

I like this speedy sentance thing and it should be adopted worldwide.

I wonder if you'd feel the same way if a member of your family was one day charged with a crime they didn't commit and sent to death row?

Jeanie · December 2006

Ahnimus wrote:

A little while ago someone posted last words of inmates being executed in Texas. I read through a lot of them. Every last one of them had a message for someone they loved. A parent, a sibling, a friend, they all felt compassion for at least one person. I think if they didn't, that would be cause for their behavior as well. It implies to me that they had problems with society in general.

I still keep a copy of Invictus by Ernest Henley 1875 in my poetry book. The final words of Timothy McVeigh. Not a popular bloke in America and I understand why. But I found it interesting that he took the opportunity to make them his final words. Every criminal and death row inmate is some one's child or loved one. And their families still love them despite their crimes. I often wonder what that would be like. To love someone in spite of a heinous crime. Yes even those who perpetrate evil acts still love and/or are loved. It's like women who love their abusers. Or children who still love their attackers. Understandable. But probably not much fun.

Ahnimus wrote:

Have you ever noticed that people attribute cause incorrectly all the time. Some people call it passing the buck. People will perform their daily routines and any hurdles they encounter they blame some one or some thing for. Very rarely do they attribute it to themselves. It was bad luck, or that person screwed me. If something good happens, it's karma, or it's their personal accomplishment. People will actually know the root cause of the event and still attribute it to something else for personal satisfaction. It's my belief that this emotional state is a cultural phenomena. It's learned behavior from centuries of cultural evolution. If you go to a different culture, people behave vary differently, but in some ways the same, from thousands and millions of years of human development.

Isn't that part of the human condition? It's in all of us. I guess we all just have to learn to take responsibility and acknowledge our weaknesses and try to enhance our strengths. I do think some folk do it more than others though. But isn't that life? Learning?

Ahnimus wrote:

There is no way to prove mathematically that the prenatal environment, infancy, childhood, adolescence, adulthood, social interaction, relationships, culture, all the experiences and stages of human development, individually, culturally and historically actually is what people are. That's why it's called a soft-science. Humans are chaotic so they are hard to understand. And some of them behave unacceptably, but we are all fucked up, I know that much.

YUP! I agree, nobody gets through unscathed!

Byrnzie · December 2006

enharmonic wrote:

Plenty more Kurds killed in the mountains of Turkey. America doesn't care about the Kurds.

catefrances wrote:

well why should they? what have the kurds ever done for the US of A?

This one sentence sums up perfectly about half of the people on the M.T.
This type of juvenile, immoral, jingoistic school playground horseshit is why America is the most hated nation on earth.
Shame.

Jeanie · December 2006

sponger wrote:

There was a study released not too long ago which said that when women are pregnant with male fetuses, the woman's immune system detects the male hormones from the fetus and sends antibodies to attack it. They think this might be a contributing factor in behavioral disorders amongst males.

This is interesting sponger, got anymore info on it?

Byrnzie · December 2006

Nice to know that everyone's Christmas and new year will now be remembered for someone being executed by hanging.
Happy New everybody!

I expect the New Year will bring plenty more of the same lies, mass murder, and terror!

Thanks to America and Tony Blair for bringing freedom and democracy to the world!!

Jeanie · December 2006

sponger wrote:

I personally don't really care if the trial was fair or not. He obviously did those things. Prolonging that trial for the sake of thoroughness would've been a waste of time. It would be like giving John Gotti presumable innocence when his captains are sitting right there pointing him out as the Don.

It wouldn't have been a waste of time for the families of the Kurds. It would have afforded them the opportunity to have their holocaust acknowledged and they would have had their "day in court". Now he is free and will never have to answer for or acknowledge those crimes. That doesn't seem very fair to me. Regardless of what they decided was a fair punishment those people still deserve to have the crimes commited against them by this man acknowledged.

Jeanie · December 2006

Byrnzie wrote:

Nice to know that everyone's Christmas and new year will now be remembered for someone being executed by hanging.
Happy New everybody!

I expect the New Year will bring plenty more of the same lies, mass murder, and terror!

Thanks to America and Tony Blair for bringing freedom and democracy to the world!!

Byrnzie, don't forget pissy little Johnny Howard! He deserves your "thanks" too!

Byrnzie · December 2006

Jeanie wrote:

Byrnzie, don't forget pissy little Johnny Howard! He deserves your "thanks" too!

True. The world has plenty of spineless poodles to thank for following on the Bush Administrations coat-tails.

R.I.P Saddam Hussein

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