i cant believe you actually edited to remove "the sheep nonsense".
Telling someone they cant think for themselves is equally as childish as "saddam apologist"
I'm not overly fond of the sheep part, either, however for the purposes of my point in this context, it did not echo my sentiments.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
Your confusing someone defending themselves or their family with capital punishment. There is no comparison.
I agree that those are two different things. If you go back and read my post, I was specifically responding to his 2nd sentence. He was very clear, and very black & white.
Thanks for clarifying, Skitch.
"I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
Bombs and wars have solved more problems than capital punishment ever has.
Nazism was stopped, for example, by bombs and wars.
And Nazism was begun with the guns and bombs of the first world war, and so on, ad infintum.
There seems to be something of a pattern to this war business doesn't there.
And Nazism was begun with the guns and bombs of the first world war, and so on, ad infintum.
There seems to be something of a pattern to this war business doesn't there.
If the U.S. decided to get rid of its military, war would not cease because of that.
We need a military and sometimes we need to fight wars to maintain our liberty.
All I know is that to see, and not to speak, would be the great betrayal.
-Enoch Powell
If the U.S. decided to get rid of its military, war would not cease because of that.
We need a military and sometimes we need to fight wars to maintain our liberty.
That does seem to be the case.
And i'd say that despite this, we also need people who oppose wars and corrupt Governments, in order to attempt to prevent the world from descending into chaos, and to reign in whatever atavistic tendencies are responsible for fueling these things.
Bombs and wars have solved more problems than capital punishment ever has.
Nazism was stopped, for example, by bombs and wars.
Bombs and wars to stop Nazism = a just cause.
Bombs and wars to gain control of the world's third largest discovered oil reserve in the world to prevent Saddam from selling the oil to China = not such a just cause.
1/12/1879, 4/8/1156, 2/6/1977, who gives a shit, ...
No way do I wish that Saddam rests in peace......I hope he rests in the pits of hell for all eternity.
R.I.P. to saddam....what a joke!
Saddam was a bad, bad, bad man. 1,000,000 times worse than our own President Bush. There are no mass graves or torture chambers in or around the White House.
No way do I wish that Saddam rests in peace......I hope he rests in the pits of hell for all eternity.
R.I.P. to saddam....what a joke!
Saddam was a bad, bad, bad man. 1,000,000 times worse than our own President Bush. There are no mass graves or torture chambers in or around the White House.
He was a twisted fuck responsible for the deaths of thousands. I agree 100%.
However, I am against the death penalty. Which means that I'm against it for everyone, not just some people.
He was a twisted fuck responsible for the deaths of thousands. I agree 100%.
Bush is worse. He isn't a twisted fuck and he's responsible for the death of thousands. It is worse because Bush is just an idiot whose complete lack of responsibility and poor decision making has cost 3000 American (and significantly more Iraqi) lives in this made-up war. His ineptitude also cost many more lives after Hurricane Katrina. Handling a 9/11 and Hurricane Katrina somewhat respectably in one presidency could have made an average president one of the best ever. However, those events also showed that when a retard is president, it could start a downward spiral where Americans rejoice over the hanging of a dictator who was created by the same people that took him out.
1/12/1879, 4/8/1156, 2/6/1977, who gives a shit, ...
I didn't say you were a mindless sheep or a bad person. Truth is there are just as many "mindless sheep" in the overly-Liberal/PC camp, as there are on any of the other sides.
I'm asking what the difference is between Saddam's regime and his actions, and the actions of American leaders and the CIA ....in general terms. Not just this current Iraq war, but historically and through policies and actions, how are our American leaders better, different.....more justified?
Has anyone on this board ever been killed for speaking out against their leaders? Do we elect our President every four years? Because of the answers to these two questions this is why our leaders are better and our policies are better. How can you possibly truly believe that historically our leaders have been the same as someone such as Saddam? I think you are letting your emotions cloud your thinking.
And one more question. Have you ever seen a president pick out people who spoke against him during the process of being elected and then have them killed such as Saddam did?
Our countries leaders and policies has made this the most powerful and relied upon country in the world. This is why our policies and actions are better and more justified.
Seeing visions of falling up somehow.
Pensacola '94 New Orleans '95 Birmingham '98 New Orleans '00 New Orleans '03 Tampa '08 New Orleans '10 - Jazzfest New Orleans '16 - Jazzfest Fenway Park '18 St. Louis '22
Has anyone on this board ever been killed for speaking out against their leaders? Do we elect our President every four years? Because of the answers to these two questions this is why our leaders are better and our policies are better.
Okay, good points.
But if you re-read my post you'll notice that I wasn't speaking of just George Bush Jr. specifically, I was speaking of the history of our leaders and it's operative divisions.
Just because Americans aren't getting shot immediately on the spot for speaking out (although quite a few have been beaten during protests and rallies) that doesn't mean that our leaders have not commited very similar attrocities.
Truth is, in the history of our country many have been silenced for many reasons. Just not always " in the direct, shoot them dead on the spot " manner.
The CIA and many American Presidents, politicans and businessmen have been at the root of causing thousands upon thousand of deaths, for the purpose of furthering their agenda and protecting their investments.
In case you haven't noticed, speaking out against this administration, over the last several years, is a risky thing to do.
Has anyone on this board ever been killed for speaking out against their leaders? Do we elect our President every four years?
Firstly, people discussing issues on this board doesn't constitute anyone 'speaking out', to the point that it will have any bearing on those in power.
Secondly, ticking a box once every 4 years and making a choice between two different shades of corporate shit doesn't constitute democracy.
Look at that guy who walked by and verbally cursed out Cheney, when Cheney was being interviewed out on the streets of New Orelans.
The Secret Service grabbed him and forced him to give them his name and information. Later, they showed up at his house. And months later I read an article where the government was still harrassing that guy.
Look at the people being thrown out of rallies because they wore a t-shirt that was not in support of Bush and his administration. You know what this kind of crap leads to? When tolerated and accepted by the masses, it leads to Saddam-like rule.
Bush is worse. He isn't a twisted fuck and he's responsible for the death of thousands. It is worse because Bush is just an idiot whose complete lack of responsibility and poor decision making has cost 3000 American (and significantly more Iraqi) lives in this made-up war. His ineptitude also cost many more lives after Hurricane Katrina. Handling a 9/11 and Hurricane Katrina somewhat respectably in one presidency could have made an average president one of the best ever. However, those events also showed that when a retard is president, it could start a downward spiral where Americans rejoice over the hanging of a dictator who was created by the same people that took him out.
Bush is worse. He isn't a twisted fuck and he's responsible for the death of thousands. It is worse because Bush is just an idiot whose complete lack of responsibility and poor decision making has cost 3000 American (and significantly more Iraqi) lives in this made-up war. His ineptitude also cost many more lives after Hurricane Katrina. Handling a 9/11 and Hurricane Katrina somewhat respectably in one presidency could have made an average president one of the best ever. However, those events also showed that when a retard is president, it could start a downward spiral where Americans rejoice over the hanging of a dictator who was created by the same people that took him out.
No way do I wish that Saddam rests in peace......I hope he rests in the pits of hell for all eternity.
R.I.P. to saddam....what a joke!
Saddam was a bad, bad, bad man. 1,000,000 times worse than our own President Bush. There are no mass graves or torture chambers in or around the White House.
AMEN to this!!!!
it sickens me to see all this sympathy for Saddam and the whole "anti kill Sadaam" and then to lump Bush in the same sentence as this man is repulsive...
it sickens me to see all this sympathy for Saddam and the whole "anti kill Sadaam" and then to lump Bush in the same sentence as this man is repulsive...
R.I.P Saddam??? how about rott in HELL
If Bush had any common decency about him, he'd be shaking Saddam's hand and thanking him for the opportunity to invade a foreign country for its oil. Without Saddam's "bad guy" image, Bush could never have pulled it off.
The more you hate Saddam, the more you play into Bush's morbid imperialistic agenda.
it sickens me to see all this sympathy for Saddam and the whole "anti kill Sadaam" and then to lump Bush in the same sentence as this man is repulsive...
R.I.P Saddam??? how about rott in HELL
I don't think it's an "anti kill Saddam" sentiment, so much as it's an "anti-kill" sentiment, to be honest. A sentiment I whole-heartedly believe in.
Smokey Robinson constantly looks like he's trying to act natural after being accused of farting.
it sickens me to see all this sympathy for Saddam and the whole "anti kill Sadaam" and then to lump Bush in the same sentence as this man is repulsive...
R.I.P Saddam??? how about rott in HELL
I dont see any saddam sympathy, just a general life sympathy.
Even though i dont agree with the view, and think its been presented by some in a very judgemental view, I can understand the view of against murder/killing in any situation, and i see no problem with it.
Bush is worse. He isn't a twisted fuck and he's responsible for the death of thousands. It is worse because Bush is just an idiot whose complete lack of responsibility and poor decision making has cost 3000 American (and significantly more Iraqi) lives in this made-up war. His ineptitude also cost many more lives after Hurricane Katrina. Handling a 9/11 and Hurricane Katrina somewhat respectably in one presidency could have made an average president one of the best ever. However, those events also showed that when a retard is president, it could start a downward spiral where Americans rejoice over the hanging of a dictator who was created by the same people that took him out.
Thats overstating it a bit.
I havent heard of instances of President Bush ordering the murder of thousands of americans.
He may dumb, he may be a retard, he may be greedy and self absorbed, but a comparison to a genocidal dictator is off base.
Thats overstating it a bit.
I havent heard of instances of President Bush ordering the murder of thousands of americans.
He couldn't if he wanted to. And if I had to guess whether or not that want was there, I'd have to say that it is, given his track record thus far.
What makes Saddam and Bush different is that Saddam took leadership over a society that was already devoid of the checks and balances that american leaders are faced with.
In spite of these checks and balances, Bush has already proven that he has every intention of side-stepping them wherever loopholes in our system permit.
And rather than domesticating mass murder like Saddam did, Bush exported it in the form of war for oil -the only difference being the borders behind which those murders were committed.
And why did Saddam commit genocide and mass murder? Was it because he is a sick, twisted, psychopath. Could it be possible that it was the only way to maintain power and order within the violent and sectarian country that is Iraq?
He gassed the kurds because they were forming alliances with the Iranians. The Iranians were creeping right up on Saddam's borders and threatening the security of his entire nation.
Therefore, he committed mass murder on the basis of national security. Sound familiar?
Comments
In that situation, no. I wouldn't say that they were.
Bombs and wars have solved more problems than capital punishment ever has.
Nazism was stopped, for example, by bombs and wars.
-Enoch Powell
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
I agree that those are two different things. If you go back and read my post, I was specifically responding to his 2nd sentence. He was very clear, and very black & white.
Thanks for clarifying, Skitch.
And Nazism was begun with the guns and bombs of the first world war, and so on, ad infintum.
There seems to be something of a pattern to this war business doesn't there.
so, he's should be allowed to kill?
and if he's allowed to kill, we're not?
Except when committed by Saddam? Because he grew up on the streets or something?
bye bye bad man. hang in peace.
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If the U.S. decided to get rid of its military, war would not cease because of that.
We need a military and sometimes we need to fight wars to maintain our liberty.
-Enoch Powell
That does seem to be the case.
And i'd say that despite this, we also need people who oppose wars and corrupt Governments, in order to attempt to prevent the world from descending into chaos, and to reign in whatever atavistic tendencies are responsible for fueling these things.
hold it a little while
Bombs and wars to stop Nazism = a just cause.
Bombs and wars to gain control of the world's third largest discovered oil reserve in the world to prevent Saddam from selling the oil to China = not such a just cause.
R.I.P. to saddam....what a joke!
Saddam was a bad, bad, bad man. 1,000,000 times worse than our own President Bush. There are no mass graves or torture chambers in or around the White House.
He was a twisted fuck responsible for the deaths of thousands. I agree 100%.
However, I am against the death penalty. Which means that I'm against it for everyone, not just some people.
Bush is worse. He isn't a twisted fuck and he's responsible for the death of thousands. It is worse because Bush is just an idiot whose complete lack of responsibility and poor decision making has cost 3000 American (and significantly more Iraqi) lives in this made-up war. His ineptitude also cost many more lives after Hurricane Katrina. Handling a 9/11 and Hurricane Katrina somewhat respectably in one presidency could have made an average president one of the best ever. However, those events also showed that when a retard is president, it could start a downward spiral where Americans rejoice over the hanging of a dictator who was created by the same people that took him out.
Has anyone on this board ever been killed for speaking out against their leaders? Do we elect our President every four years? Because of the answers to these two questions this is why our leaders are better and our policies are better. How can you possibly truly believe that historically our leaders have been the same as someone such as Saddam? I think you are letting your emotions cloud your thinking.
And one more question. Have you ever seen a president pick out people who spoke against him during the process of being elected and then have them killed such as Saddam did?
Our countries leaders and policies has made this the most powerful and relied upon country in the world. This is why our policies and actions are better and more justified.
Pensacola '94
New Orleans '95
Birmingham '98
New Orleans '00
New Orleans '03
Tampa '08
New Orleans '10 - Jazzfest
New Orleans '16 - Jazzfest
Fenway Park '18
St. Louis '22
Okay, good points.
But if you re-read my post you'll notice that I wasn't speaking of just George Bush Jr. specifically, I was speaking of the history of our leaders and it's operative divisions.
Just because Americans aren't getting shot immediately on the spot for speaking out (although quite a few have been beaten during protests and rallies) that doesn't mean that our leaders have not commited very similar attrocities.
Truth is, in the history of our country many have been silenced for many reasons. Just not always " in the direct, shoot them dead on the spot " manner.
The CIA and many American Presidents, politicans and businessmen have been at the root of causing thousands upon thousand of deaths, for the purpose of furthering their agenda and protecting their investments.
In case you haven't noticed, speaking out against this administration, over the last several years, is a risky thing to do.
Firstly, people discussing issues on this board doesn't constitute anyone 'speaking out', to the point that it will have any bearing on those in power.
Secondly, ticking a box once every 4 years and making a choice between two different shades of corporate shit doesn't constitute democracy.
The Secret Service grabbed him and forced him to give them his name and information. Later, they showed up at his house. And months later I read an article where the government was still harrassing that guy.
Look at the people being thrown out of rallies because they wore a t-shirt that was not in support of Bush and his administration. You know what this kind of crap leads to? When tolerated and accepted by the masses, it leads to Saddam-like rule.
Well said.
Till there aint nothing left worth taking away from me.....
I agree with this 100%.
naděje umírá poslední
AMEN to this!!!!
it sickens me to see all this sympathy for Saddam and the whole "anti kill Sadaam" and then to lump Bush in the same sentence as this man is repulsive...
R.I.P Saddam??? how about rott in HELL
Well, the article that I read was in the LA times, and they charge people to view their articles online.
But, the phenomenon is known as the maternal immune hypothesis.
Here's a powerpoint presentation I found on this subject:
http://www.msu.edu/~breedsm/ppt/asposter3.ppt
Here's the presentation in html:
http://72.14.253.104/search?q=cache:arHAU-EetwwJ:www.msu.edu/~breedsm/ppt/asposter3.ppt+
http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=272825
If Bush had any common decency about him, he'd be shaking Saddam's hand and thanking him for the opportunity to invade a foreign country for its oil. Without Saddam's "bad guy" image, Bush could never have pulled it off.
The more you hate Saddam, the more you play into Bush's morbid imperialistic agenda.
http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=272825
I don't think it's an "anti kill Saddam" sentiment, so much as it's an "anti-kill" sentiment, to be honest. A sentiment I whole-heartedly believe in.
I dont see any saddam sympathy, just a general life sympathy.
Even though i dont agree with the view, and think its been presented by some in a very judgemental view, I can understand the view of against murder/killing in any situation, and i see no problem with it.
Thats overstating it a bit.
I havent heard of instances of President Bush ordering the murder of thousands of americans.
He may dumb, he may be a retard, he may be greedy and self absorbed, but a comparison to a genocidal dictator is off base.
He couldn't if he wanted to. And if I had to guess whether or not that want was there, I'd have to say that it is, given his track record thus far.
What makes Saddam and Bush different is that Saddam took leadership over a society that was already devoid of the checks and balances that american leaders are faced with.
In spite of these checks and balances, Bush has already proven that he has every intention of side-stepping them wherever loopholes in our system permit.
And rather than domesticating mass murder like Saddam did, Bush exported it in the form of war for oil -the only difference being the borders behind which those murders were committed.
And why did Saddam commit genocide and mass murder? Was it because he is a sick, twisted, psychopath. Could it be possible that it was the only way to maintain power and order within the violent and sectarian country that is Iraq?
He gassed the kurds because they were forming alliances with the Iranians. The Iranians were creeping right up on Saddam's borders and threatening the security of his entire nation.
Therefore, he committed mass murder on the basis of national security. Sound familiar?
http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=272825
Thanks Sponger. Checking it out now.
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift