Just as an aside, no one I believe has been jailed for the genocoide in Cambodia which killed 2 million people. If America was really interested in justice one wonders why they never pursued Pol Pot and his conspirators or atleast assisted the UN?
Just as an aside, no one I believe has been jailed for the genocoide in Cambodia which killed 2 million people. If America was really interested in justice one wonders why they never pursued Pol Pot and his conspirators or atleast assisted the UN?
I believe no one has been jailed for the deaths of approx 2 million Iraqis as a result of the 10 years of U.S enforced sanctions there.
I believe no one has been jailed for the deaths of approx 2 million Iraqis as a result of the 10 years of U.S enforced sanctions there.
I am not going to argue the priority of one over the other and I agree sanctions are a poor response. Funnily I don't remeber the export of oil from Iraq ever being blocked?
I think the calousness of the Khmer regime to its own people though is on another level and was a direct consequence of the action of the government at the time.
True. The world has plenty of spineless poodles to thank for following on the Bush Administrations coat-tails.
Ah, no I believe it's worse than "following". Johnny is like a totem. Has his head so far up George's arse or is it George with his dick up Johnny? I can never really decide!;) But it goes way, way beyond "following"
Just as an aside, no one I believe has been jailed for the genocoide in Cambodia which killed 2 million people. If America was really interested in justice one wonders why they never pursued Pol Pot and his conspirators or atleast assisted the UN?
America has always had a bit of selective blindness when it comes to Cambodia and Vietnam. I think if they acknowledged one (genocide in Cambodia) then they'd have to acknowledge the other (F***ed up war in Vietnam). Way too much to get sued over.
I am not going to argue the priority of one over the other and I agree sanctions are a poor response. Funnily I don't remeber the export of oil from Iraq ever being blocked?
I think the calousness of the Khmer regime to its own people though is on another level and was a direct consequence of the action of the government at the time.
And at the same time that the Khmer Rouge were massacring intellectuals, and the middle classes in Cambodia, the U.S Government was supporting and funding Indonesia's invasion of East Timor in which a third of the population was wiped out.
And the figure of 2 million deaths in Cambodia is debatable. It has been argued that the figure was exaggerated by the Western media in order to act as a cover for the crimes being sponsored by us taking place at the same time in East Timor.
Ah, no I believe it's worse than "following". Johnny is like a totem. Has his head so far up George's arse or is it George with his dick up Johnny? I can never really decide!;) But it goes way, way beyond "following"
There is plenty I don't like about "honest Johnny" although I reckon George is a far worse leader than Howard is. Besides imagine if Australia elected Mark Latham to be our Prime Minister! :eek: *shudders*
The wind is blowing cold
Have we lost our way tonight?
Have we lost our hope to sorrow?
Feels like were all alone
Running further from what’s right
And there are no more heroes to follow
There is plenty I don't like about "honest Johnny" although I reckon George is a far worse leader than Howard is. Besides imagine if Australia elected Mark Latham to be our Prime Minister! :eek: *shudders*
LOL!!!:D:D Yeah agree with you on all counts! You even made me shudder at the mention of Mark! We don't have anyone in the political arena in this country at the moment who could become our next prime minister. IMO. And the only thing that makes me really nervous is the nagging feeling that Labor will put Peter Garrett up. He has been getting a lot of support in fashionable circles.:(
Bush must be gutted that they didn't string the fucker up, the day before his State of the Union address. It might have boosted his approval ratings by 0.00001%, for the occasion.
LOL!!!:D:D Yeah agree with you on all counts! You even made me shudder at the mention of Mark! We don't have anyone in the political arena in this country at the moment who could become our next prime minister. IMO. And the only thing that makes me really nervous is the nagging feeling that Labor will put Peter Garrett up. He has been getting a lot of support in fashionable circles.:(
Latham turned and attacked his own party! At least Howard is somewhat respectable, even if he looks stupid in those shirts he has to wear at those APEC meetings lol. Next election will be a battle of the nerds LOL...with Kevin Rudd set to lead Labor. Howard is a cunning old fox and he'll win again. The electorate simply don't care that he has lied multiple times ie: children overboard, AWB et al.
The wind is blowing cold
Have we lost our way tonight?
Have we lost our hope to sorrow?
Feels like were all alone
Running further from what’s right
And there are no more heroes to follow
So, now that Saddam is dead:
Is there peace all over irak?
Flowers are blooming
No more US soldiers wounded or dead, and they can go back home with smile
Free oil for all of us!
Now Irak is the garden of eden, a paradise on earth
I'll get a 10c ticket for the next Bagdad gig!
I didn't know that hanging a man (whatever he did) could solve problems
It appears as though the only arguement against those that are happy to see the man gone are just general anti death penalty arguements... which is simply a difference in viewpoints. I have no problem with capital punishment, some of you do. That doesnt make either one us sheep, or either side good or bad people. Just a differing viewpoint.
All lives end. A terrible mans life ended a terrible way. Being okay with that does not make me a better, or worse, person than anyone else.
Please Que_, explain to me how i am a sheep in this scenerio? I dont think there is any debate that a terrible man died yesterday. Id be just as happy if it was a massive heart attack, a car accident, or if he died in his sleep.
And Byrnzie... If it was Bush or Rumsfeld, i honestly wouldnt care one way or the other. I have no feelings toward them either way. If it was proven that horrible crimes were commited by them, or at their explicit direction then Id be okay with that too.
Latham turned and attacked his own party! At least Howard is somewhat respectable, even if he looks stupid in those shirts he has to wear at those APEC meetings lol. Next election will be a battle of the nerds LOL...with Kevin Rudd set to lead Labor. Howard is a cunning old fox and he'll win again. The electorate simply don't care that he has lied multiple times ie: children overboard, AWB et al.
RESPECTABLE!!!! :eek: Don't get me started on Johnny I can't even stand the man's eyebrows and I never make visual judgements about people usually!!!. Everything about him creeps me out! He's a liar and a cheat and we have suffered his bumblings long enough! And Kevin Rudd is no replacement. I would really like to see a Prime Minister and leader of the opposition in this country that could keep their religious views seperate from their political ones!! I have nothing about people having their own faith but "church and state" should remain seperate. For far too long we have been hijacked and it's just wrong. And I wouldn't be too sure about Johnny winning again. Kevin Rudd has been chosen by the Labor party because his lifestyle and ideals are very similar to Johhny's. And the people, are very angry over the IR laws. I think, much as I hate to say it, that Kevin will give Johnny a very good run for his money at the next election and unfortunately that gives me absolutely no more piece of mind than I have now. Anyway nuff of my rantings!! Think I need to go find a nice quite thread with happy thoughts on it so I can finish my beverage in peace and enjoy my Saturday night and not get so worked up when I drinking!!;)
RESPECTABLE!!!! :eek: Don't get me started on Johnny I can't even stand the man's eyebrows and I never make visual judgements about people usually!!!. Everything about him creeps me out! He's a liar and a cheat and we have suffered his bumblings long enough! And Kevin Rudd is no replacement. I would really like to see a Prime Minister and leader of the opposition in this country that could keep their religious views seperate from their political ones!! I have nothing about people having their own faith but "church and state" should remain seperate. For far too long we have been hijacked and it's just wrong. And I wouldn't be too sure about Johnny winning again. Kevin Rudd has been chosen by the Labor party because his lifestyle and ideals are very similar to Johhny's. And the people, are very angry over the IR laws. I think, much as I hate to say it, that Kevin will give Johnny a very good run for his money at the next election and unfortunately that gives me absolutely no more piece of mind than I have now. Anyway nuff of my rantings!! Think I need to go find a nice quite thread with happy thoughts on it so I can finish my beverage in peace and enjoy my Saturday night and not get so worked up when I drinking!!;)
LOL fair call about the IR laws but I can't see people getting rid of a Prime Minister who has being in for so long (Aussies don't vote out governments just ask the silly Victorians who decided "do nothing" Steve Bracks would be a better leader than Ted Bailleu) that I can't see Johnny Lite (Rudd) beating him.
The wind is blowing cold
Have we lost our way tonight?
Have we lost our hope to sorrow?
Feels like were all alone
Running further from what’s right
And there are no more heroes to follow
I fail to see how America and Americans are any better or different from anyone else.
They celebrated when the Towers were attacked, Americans celebrate the death of Saddam
It seems this country has this phoney-baloney, pretentious, hollier-than-thou perspective.
When America kills, it's all for a justified reasons. When others kill, it depends on Americas self-interest whether it's justified.
I don't think Saddam was a good guy and it's not my intention defend him.
But I see Saddam as one of many vicious, murderous....maybe even evil leaders and individuals across this planet. He really was not any different than several American leaders and government branches who have killed so many, for greed, self-interest and the advancement of their own agenda.
Celebrate? Nah, I don't think there's anything to celebrate.
Maybe one day we will have a Leader in this country and certain government branches who actually behave in a manner that truely is better and more rational than the latest favorite villian.
Accountability, self-awareness and responsibility .......something not only Americans, but most leaders of most countries fail to uphold.
There are people negatively affected by others all over the world, why the big fuss over this one in particular? Hmmmm.
It's ok Skitch, they already have another evil Skeletor in Iran for you to hate.
yes, but you quoted a post where i said i know people personally affected by saddam. My wifes friend who came to our wedding had her husband and father killed by saddams regime. She hated the man deeply. She cried with joy when his statue came down, and called my wife crying last night after he had been executed. The fact our friend is feeling relieved makes me happy.
It has nothing to do with a "fuss-" I hardly see a couple posts on a message board as a "fuss." I Mentioned the Chicago White Sox in a thread once, so was i making a fuss about that? Nope. Just joining a conversation about it.
The Iranians i know hate the culture, but have done very little complaining about the leader there, so i have no love or hate for the guy. Please show me an example of where i allow my views to be dictated by the media, cause that would be great. Im not Miller on here talking up pro-gun, pro-bush party line bullshit. Im not barroom hero talking up jesus and pro life.
I make up my mind on each issue based on what i have seen, heard and experienced- not what any one idealogy, party, or polticial side says i should- so these implications that im a party line sheep are woefully inaccurate and frankly, a bit childish.
I fail to see how America and Americans are any better or different from anyone else.
They celebrated when the Towers were attacked, Americans celebrate the death of Saddam
It seems this country has this phoney-baloney, pretentious, hollier-than-thou perspective.
Cheering the death of a genocidal dictator is different than cheering the death of 1000's of innocent people.... and thus far, i havent seen that being cheered by american people.
LOL fair call about the IR laws but I can't see people getting rid of a Prime Minister who has being in for so long (Aussies don't vote out governments just ask the silly Victorians who decided "do nothing" Steve Bracks would be a better leader than Ted Bailleu) that I can't see Johnny Lite (Rudd) beating him.
LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA *****Fingers in ears******* LA LA LA LA LA LA;)
So I guess you're in the "green leafies" then? Suburbs that is!
BTW EXCELLENT NAME FOR KEVIN! But I'm only going to talk about happy things now!
Cheering the death of a genocidal dictator is different than cheering the death of 1000's of innocent people.... and thus far, i havent seen that being cheered by american people.
That's a valid point.
But how many of the Americans cheering Saddam's death, mourned the deaths of the Iraqi people who suffered and died as a direct result of Saddam's policies and rule? Did anyone of them actually give a crap before we were instructed by our government to give a crap?
But how many of the Americans cheering Saddam's death, mourned the deaths of the Iraqi people who suffered and died as a direct result of Saddam's policies and rule? Did anyone actually give a crap before we were instructed by our government to give a crap?
In the area i live in? Thousands of them. You know the footage they were showing of Dearborn MI last night. Well, thats about 10 minutes from my house. Thousands of native Iraqis personally affected by Saddams regime live there, and around the metro detroit area.
And Being okay, or even happy, that occured is a far cry from "Cheering"
his death. Saying "Good, a bad man died" does not mean one was actively rooting for it, or had a vested personal interest in it.
My comments are strictly aimed at those who have no direct involvement or connection to Iraq and it's people.
Im sure there are plenty of those as well.
However, i think its a bit misleading of a point to bring up the idea of "didnt care about saddam until the news started talking about him" with the people of this board.
The fact is, Saddam became a household name when i would say most people on this board were between the ages of 10-15.... About the time people start understanding whats going on, and whats in the news... Just demographically, the age of the people on this board is pretty much prohibitive to having been aware of saddam prior to his Invasion of Kuwait.
Joy that Saddam is a free man again? That he no longer has to rot in jail??? Death is the easy way out. I'd choose execution for myself anyday if in his shoes..
Left in jail, theres always the chance of getting out. In the case of Iraq the chance may have even been greater.
I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
I completely agree with this Ahnimus. I really don't see what purpose killing another serves as a deterent. It only makes the one meting out the punishment less and all of us lesser for allowing it. I believe that there is good and evil in EVERY person. Just the degree varies. What's that quote? I think, "There are no bad people only bad acts."
This is a post that comes very very close to my thoughts on capital punishment.
The only people we should try to get even with...
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
Comments
I believe no one has been jailed for the deaths of approx 2 million Iraqis as a result of the 10 years of U.S enforced sanctions there.
I am not going to argue the priority of one over the other and I agree sanctions are a poor response. Funnily I don't remeber the export of oil from Iraq ever being blocked?
I think the calousness of the Khmer regime to its own people though is on another level and was a direct consequence of the action of the government at the time.
Ah, no I believe it's worse than "following". Johnny is like a totem. Has his head so far up George's arse or is it George with his dick up Johnny? I can never really decide!;) But it goes way, way beyond "following"
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
America has always had a bit of selective blindness when it comes to Cambodia and Vietnam. I think if they acknowledged one (genocide in Cambodia) then they'd have to acknowledge the other (F***ed up war in Vietnam). Way too much to get sued over.
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
And at the same time that the Khmer Rouge were massacring intellectuals, and the middle classes in Cambodia, the U.S Government was supporting and funding Indonesia's invasion of East Timor in which a third of the population was wiped out.
And the figure of 2 million deaths in Cambodia is debatable. It has been argued that the figure was exaggerated by the Western media in order to act as a cover for the crimes being sponsored by us taking place at the same time in East Timor.
There is plenty I don't like about "honest Johnny" although I reckon George is a far worse leader than Howard is. Besides imagine if Australia elected Mark Latham to be our Prime Minister! :eek: *shudders*
Have we lost our way tonight?
Have we lost our hope to sorrow?
Feels like were all alone
Running further from what’s right
And there are no more heroes to follow
So what are we becoming?
Where did we go wrong?
A car bombing in a market in the southern Iraqi city of Kufa has killed at least 31 people. Another 45 people were injured.
The attack came within hours of the hanging former leader Saddam Hussein.
Reports say many of those caught up in the attack were women and children shopping in the fish market ahead of the Eid al-Adha holiday.
Kufa, a centre of Shia Muslim pilgrimage, is a small town 170 kilometres (80 miles) south of Baghdad.
Police say the bomb was planted in a minibus.
LOL!!!:D:D Yeah agree with you on all counts! You even made me shudder at the mention of Mark!
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
http://www.gunbancon.com/rumsfeld%20saddam.jpg
♪♫♪♫♫
This is just sickening. It so overwhelms. :(
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
Latham turned and attacked his own party! At least Howard is somewhat respectable, even if he looks stupid in those shirts he has to wear at those APEC meetings lol. Next election will be a battle of the nerds LOL...with Kevin Rudd set to lead Labor. Howard is a cunning old fox and he'll win again. The electorate simply don't care that he has lied multiple times ie: children overboard, AWB et al.
Have we lost our way tonight?
Have we lost our hope to sorrow?
Feels like were all alone
Running further from what’s right
And there are no more heroes to follow
So what are we becoming?
Where did we go wrong?
Have we lost our way tonight?
Have we lost our hope to sorrow?
Feels like were all alone
Running further from what’s right
And there are no more heroes to follow
So what are we becoming?
Where did we go wrong?
Is there peace all over irak?
Flowers are blooming
No more US soldiers wounded or dead, and they can go back home with smile
Free oil for all of us!
Now Irak is the garden of eden, a paradise on earth
I'll get a 10c ticket for the next Bagdad gig!
I didn't know that hanging a man (whatever he did) could solve problems
All lives end. A terrible mans life ended a terrible way. Being okay with that does not make me a better, or worse, person than anyone else.
Please Que_, explain to me how i am a sheep in this scenerio? I dont think there is any debate that a terrible man died yesterday. Id be just as happy if it was a massive heart attack, a car accident, or if he died in his sleep.
And Byrnzie... If it was Bush or Rumsfeld, i honestly wouldnt care one way or the other. I have no feelings toward them either way. If it was proven that horrible crimes were commited by them, or at their explicit direction then Id be okay with that too.
RESPECTABLE!!!! :eek: Don't get me started on Johnny I can't even stand the man's eyebrows and I never make visual judgements about people usually!!!. Everything about him creeps me out! He's a liar and a cheat and we have suffered his bumblings long enough! And Kevin Rudd is no replacement. I would really like to see a Prime Minister and leader of the opposition in this country that could keep their religious views seperate from their political ones!! I have nothing about people having their own faith but "church and state" should remain seperate. For far too long we have been hijacked and it's just wrong. And I wouldn't be too sure about Johnny winning again. Kevin Rudd has been chosen by the Labor party because his lifestyle and ideals are very similar to Johhny's. And the people, are very angry over the IR laws. I think, much as I hate to say it, that Kevin will give Johnny a very good run for his money at the next election and unfortunately that gives me absolutely no more piece of mind than I have now. Anyway nuff of my rantings!! Think I need to go find a nice quite thread with happy thoughts on it so I can finish my beverage in peace and enjoy my Saturday night and not get so worked up when I drinking!!;)
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
LOL fair call about the IR laws but I can't see people getting rid of a Prime Minister who has being in for so long (Aussies don't vote out governments just ask the silly Victorians who decided "do nothing" Steve Bracks would be a better leader than Ted Bailleu) that I can't see Johnny Lite (Rudd) beating him.
Have we lost our way tonight?
Have we lost our hope to sorrow?
Feels like were all alone
Running further from what’s right
And there are no more heroes to follow
So what are we becoming?
Where did we go wrong?
They celebrated when the Towers were attacked, Americans celebrate the death of Saddam
It seems this country has this phoney-baloney, pretentious, hollier-than-thou perspective.
When America kills, it's all for a justified reasons. When others kill, it depends on Americas self-interest whether it's justified.
I don't think Saddam was a good guy and it's not my intention defend him.
But I see Saddam as one of many vicious, murderous....maybe even evil leaders and individuals across this planet. He really was not any different than several American leaders and government branches who have killed so many, for greed, self-interest and the advancement of their own agenda.
Celebrate? Nah, I don't think there's anything to celebrate.
Maybe one day we will have a Leader in this country and certain government branches who actually behave in a manner that truely is better and more rational than the latest favorite villian.
Accountability, self-awareness and responsibility .......something not only Americans, but most leaders of most countries fail to uphold.
yes, but you quoted a post where i said i know people personally affected by saddam. My wifes friend who came to our wedding had her husband and father killed by saddams regime. She hated the man deeply. She cried with joy when his statue came down, and called my wife crying last night after he had been executed. The fact our friend is feeling relieved makes me happy.
It has nothing to do with a "fuss-" I hardly see a couple posts on a message board as a "fuss." I Mentioned the Chicago White Sox in a thread once, so was i making a fuss about that? Nope. Just joining a conversation about it.
The Iranians i know hate the culture, but have done very little complaining about the leader there, so i have no love or hate for the guy. Please show me an example of where i allow my views to be dictated by the media, cause that would be great. Im not Miller on here talking up pro-gun, pro-bush party line bullshit. Im not barroom hero talking up jesus and pro life.
I make up my mind on each issue based on what i have seen, heard and experienced- not what any one idealogy, party, or polticial side says i should- so these implications that im a party line sheep are woefully inaccurate and frankly, a bit childish.
Cheering the death of a genocidal dictator is different than cheering the death of 1000's of innocent people.... and thus far, i havent seen that being cheered by american people.
LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA *****Fingers in ears******* LA LA LA LA LA LA;)
So I guess you're in the "green leafies" then? Suburbs that is!
BTW EXCELLENT NAME FOR KEVIN!
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
That's a valid point.
But how many of the Americans cheering Saddam's death, mourned the deaths of the Iraqi people who suffered and died as a direct result of Saddam's policies and rule? Did anyone of them actually give a crap before we were instructed by our government to give a crap?
In the area i live in? Thousands of them. You know the footage they were showing of Dearborn MI last night. Well, thats about 10 minutes from my house. Thousands of native Iraqis personally affected by Saddams regime live there, and around the metro detroit area.
And Being okay, or even happy, that occured is a far cry from "Cheering"
his death. Saying "Good, a bad man died" does not mean one was actively rooting for it, or had a vested personal interest in it.
I think I should also be praying for some of you sick, twisted people who are taking enjoyment out of this as well.
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
My comments are strictly aimed at those who have no direct involvement or connection to Iraq and it's people.
Im sure there are plenty of those as well.
However, i think its a bit misleading of a point to bring up the idea of "didnt care about saddam until the news started talking about him" with the people of this board.
The fact is, Saddam became a household name when i would say most people on this board were between the ages of 10-15.... About the time people start understanding whats going on, and whats in the news... Just demographically, the age of the people on this board is pretty much prohibitive to having been aware of saddam prior to his Invasion of Kuwait.
Left in jail, theres always the chance of getting out. In the case of Iraq the chance may have even been greater.
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
Where are our actions better or more justified? In what way?
This is a post that comes very very close to my thoughts on capital punishment.
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.