My pleasure girl!!! You deserve to take a bow for this one!!!
I clapped and cheered for Abook and I was not acknowledged. :(
Definitely some really good points Abook.
Isn't it ironic that we kill as an example. We use capital punishment as a deterrent, or in other words, an example. As they say teach by example, that means to show someone how to act.
Violence begets violence, for the Christian folks, that's what Jesus was telling you. Eye for an Eye was old testament, it's what God had originally taught, but Jesus reversed and said "Turn the other cheek". Don't ask me why, I have no idea why God would change his word. That's just what I read and that's what my family believes.
It is possible to dislike a person's actions without disliking a person. This is where I find my neutrality. I can look at an act and determine an appropriate punishment without having any emotional connection to the individual. It's not sympathy, it's profiling. I don't know Saddam's history but he could have been through all kinds of shit, just being born Iraqi puts him in an underdeveloped political and social environment. The religious supervenience of politics in Iraq is insane.
P.s. WooT I found a word my spell-checker doesn't recognize.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
Sorry sister, but the world is short one man who was responsible for the death of hundreds of thousands.
Regardless of how it happened, or who put him in power in the first place... there is one less terrible person on this planet. But please, feel free to continue to blame it on the idiot box, or the media, or everyone with a different view than you being a "mindless sheep".
There is a big difference between feeling relief (or even joy) in the death of a murderer and actually BEING a murderer.
I clapped and cheered for Abook and I was not acknowledged. :(
Definitely some really good points Abook.
Isn't it ironic that we kill as an example. We use capital punishment as a deterrent, or in other words, an example. As they say teach by example, that means to show someone how to act.
Violence begets violence, for the Christian folks, that's what Jesus was telling you. Eye for an Eye was old testament, it's what God had originally taught, but Jesus reversed and said "Turn the other cheek". Don't ask me why, I have no idea why God would change his word. That's just what I read and that's what my family believes.
It is possible to dislike a person's actions without disliking a person. This is where I find my neutrality. I can look at an act and determine an appropriate punishment without having any emotional connection to the individual. It's not sympathy, it's profiling. I don't know Saddam's history but he could have been through all kinds of shit, just being born Iraqi puts him in an underdeveloped political and social environment. The religious supervenience of politics in Iraq is insane.
P.s. WooT I found a word my spell-checker doesn't recognize.
I'm sorry, you are absolutely right, Ahnimus. Thank you. I think I'm just a bit more weary with you sometimes concerning my ability to detect sarcasm. I knew we were on the same page and should have responded.
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
I clapped and cheered for Abook and I was not acknowledged. :(
Sorry Ahnimus, it's really difficult to understand where you are coming from some times. I have mentioned that you can be a little scary!;) I'll go back and read it all again now with new eyes.
I was talking to a friend explaining that I felt terrible sadness for humanity and unfortunately many on this thread have proved that I was right--what is all of this about relief and joy that he is dead? How is this helping humanity? What is this teaching future generations?
Isn't it ironic that we kill as an example. We use capital punishment as a deterrent, or in other words, an example........
........It is possible to dislike a person's actions without disliking a person. This is where I find my neutrality. I can look at an act and determine an appropriate punishment without having any emotional connection to the individual. It's not sympathy, it's profiling.
I completely agree with this Ahnimus. I really don't see what purpose killing another serves as a deterent. It only makes the one meting out the punishment less and all of us lesser for allowing it. I believe that there is good and evil in EVERY person. Just the degree varies. What's that quote? I think, "There are no bad people only bad acts."
I'm sorry, you are absolutely right, Ahnimus. Thank you. I think I'm just a bit more weary with you sometimes concerning my ability to detect sarcasm. I knew we were on the same page and should have responded.
Yea, I'm too damn serious usually.
No need to apologize, I honestly never expected you to acknowledge it. I'm just teasing.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
Sorry Ahnimus, it's really difficult to understand where you are coming from some times. I have mentioned that you can be a little scary!;) I'll go back and read it all again now with new eyes.
Well you are awfully nice to me considering you find me scary.
I really appreciate that.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
I completely agree with this Ahnimus. I really don't see what purpose killing another serves as a deterent. It only makes the one meting out the punishment less and all of us lesser for allowing it. I believe that there is good and evil in EVERY person. Just the degree varies. What's that quote? I think, "There are no bad people only bad acts."
Well, that is the thing. Look beneath the surface. Because there are no bad people. We all make mistakes, some mistakes are more severe than others. Life is one long learning process. The things we take for granted were learned when we were children. Just imagine growing up in a different environment and your whole life changes.
I know I would like sushi if I grew up in Japan. But I don't, I grew up in Canada and neither of my parents liked sushi, so I never ate it. Even taste adapts to experience. The foods we consume as children become the foods we love. How does that go? "My parents always made me eat peas, and I hated peas, but now I love 'em!".
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
stop it hell...i hope they ship his corpse over to the states and let some of the iraqis here tie a chain around that stretched out neck of his and take him for a good ole country drag....stop ever couple of miles and piss on the corpse to cool it off...
I'm ahead, I'm a man
I'm the first mammal to wear pants, yeah
I'm at peace with my lust
I can kill 'cause in God I trust, yeah
Well you are awfully nice to me considering you find me scary.
I really appreciate that.
My pleasure and happy to be nice to you although sometimes I suspect a little foolhardy!;) The other night, I was discussing with a friend a thread you had been posting on that I wanted to respond to but said it'll be like poking a lion with a little stick!;) You need to be prepared! I think I've mentioned before I got you pegged as a Caramelo Koala anyways!
If the Iraqis had overthrown Saddam themselves, then I for some reason would have less of a problem with his hanging. But, the US basically handed him over to them on a silver platter. I dont exactly know why, but I perceive that as fundamentally different from their having overthrown and captured him themselves.
I think if a person is going to take another person's life, that person should at least earn the right to do it. Otherwise, it's like hunting. To me, what makes hunting wrong is that it is really an unfair sport for the animal. The hunter, the coward that he is, shouldn't have the right to kill the animal if he can't kill it with his bare hands. Otherwise, it's like cheating.
Of course, the exception to that is when the hunter is really hunting for food that he otherwise would not be able to get. And the parallel to that is the Iraqi people killing Saddam because that is the only way to rid the country of his influence. We know that not to be the case.
So, in essence, it's like the Iraqi people are a bunch of cowards who in fact are so cowardly that they pretend as though they've earned the right to kill Saddam Hussein. The truth again is that they didn't earn that right. By killing him now, they are just showing to the world how much they've really wanted to kill him all along, but just didn't have the guts to do it themselves. They rather their families and friends get tortured and executed before risking their own necks. If a guy like Saddam ever came to California, you had better believe I'd be loading my rifle and heading right on over to his house before he lays a finger on anyone close to me. If I die in the process, so be it. If I hide away like a coward and let someone else kill him, then I had better be either really forgiving or just stay out of sight. The Iraqi people are doing neither, and that is what makes them an even sadder nation of people than before Saddam was removed from power.
So, I'm saying is that Saddam deserved better not because he is a fellow human being, but because he at least earned his way to power. He fought his way to the top of a regime that was just as bloody and crooked as any other. What he accomplished took balls and cunning. Meanwhile, the Iraqi people hid in fear and cowardice under this brutal dictatorship. They were accomplices in their own victimization. That is why their right to kill saddam should be stripped from them until they understand that in spite of his capture and imprisonment, he is more of a man and more deserving of life than any Iraqi who voted for his death.
Well, that is the thing. Look beneath the surface. Because there are no bad people. We all make mistakes, some mistakes are more severe than others. Life is one long learning process. The things we take for granted were learned when we were children. Just imagine growing up in a different environment and your whole life changes.
I know I would like sushi if I grew up in Japan. But I don't, I grew up in Canada and neither of my parents liked sushi, so I never ate it. Even taste adapts to experience. The foods we consume as children become the foods we love. How does that go? "My parents always made me eat peas, and I hated peas, but now I love 'em!".
I think people can learn to be bad and choose to continue being bad, do something bad and then continue to make bad choices and never rectify that in themselves. Some people do bad, learn from being bad and don't repeat their mistakes. It only takes the influence of one mostly good person to help change that. Unfortunately those opportunities don't present themselves for everyone. And as to peas! Well! Isn't that parental brainwashing at work!!! It's called nurture I believe! Good thing my folks don't like tripe is all I can say!! :D:D
I think people can learn to be bad and choose to continue being bad, do something bad and then continue to make bad choices and never rectify that in themselves. Some people do bad, learn from being bad and don't repeat their mistakes. It only takes the influence of one mostly good person to help change that. Unfortunately those opportunities don't present themselves for everyone. And as to peas! Well! Isn't that parental brainwashing at work!!! It's called nurture I believe! Good thing my folks don't like tripe is all I can say!! :D:D
A little while ago someone posted last words of inmates being executed in Texas. I read through a lot of them. Every last one of them had a message for someone they loved. A parent, a sibling, a friend, they all felt compassion for at least one person. I think if they didn't, that would be cause for their behavior as well. It implies to me that they had problems with society in general.
Have you ever noticed that people attribute cause incorrectly all the time. Some people call it passing the buck. People will perform their daily routines and any hurdles they encounter they blame some one or some thing for. Very rarely do they attribute it to themselves. It was bad luck, or that person screwed me. If something good happens, it's karma, or it's their personal accomplishment. People will actually know the root cause of the event and still attribute it to something else for personal satisfaction. It's my belief that this emotional state is a cultural phenomena. It's learned behavior from centuries of cultural evolution. If you go to a different culture, people behave vary differently, but in some ways the same, from thousands and millions of years of human development.
There is no way to prove mathematically that the prenatal environment, infancy, childhood, adolescence, adulthood, social interaction, relationships, culture, all the experiences and stages of human development, individually, culturally and historically actually is what people are. That's why it's called a soft-science. Humans are chaotic so they are hard to understand. And some of them behave unacceptably, but we are all fucked up, I know that much.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
There was a study released not too long ago which said that when women are pregnant with male fetuses, the woman's immune system detects the male hormones from the fetus and sends antibodies to attack it. They think this might be a contributing factor in behavioral disorders amongst males.
On the other hand, here we have Saddam ... tried, convicted and executed within mere months. How is it that this country, the very antithesis of stability, was able to withstand what the United States wouldn't even consider?
It is a joke of a trial. I can't even understand how someone accused of more than 10 years worth of crimes can be tried in a few months.
They didn't even convict him for everything he did... talk about closure.
That's 2 ex-dictators dead in a year though.
I personally don't really care if the trial was fair or not. He obviously did those things. Prolonging that trial for the sake of thoroughness would've been a waste of time. It would be like giving John Gotti presumable innocence when his captains are sitting right there pointing him out as the Don.
Sorry sister, but the world is short one man who was responsible for the death of hundreds of thousands.
Regardless of how it happened, or who put him in power in the first place... there is one less terrible person on this planet. But please, feel free to continue to blame it on the idiot box, or the media, or everyone with a different view than you being a "mindless sheep".
There is a big difference between feeling relief (or even joy) in the death of a murderer and actually BEING a murderer.
So by following this same logic I take it you'd feel the exact same way about George Bush and Rumsfeld being hanged for crimes against humanity and for the death of hundreds of thousands?
A little while ago someone posted last words of inmates being executed in Texas. I read through a lot of them. Every last one of them had a message for someone they loved. A parent, a sibling, a friend, they all felt compassion for at least one person. I think if they didn't, that would be cause for their behavior as well. It implies to me that they had problems with society in general.
I still keep a copy of Invictus by Ernest Henley 1875 in my poetry book. The final words of Timothy McVeigh. Not a popular bloke in America and I understand why. But I found it interesting that he took the opportunity to make them his final words. Every criminal and death row inmate is some one's child or loved one. And their families still love them despite their crimes. I often wonder what that would be like. To love someone in spite of a heinous crime. Yes even those who perpetrate evil acts still love and/or are loved. It's like women who love their abusers. Or children who still love their attackers. Understandable. But probably not much fun.
Have you ever noticed that people attribute cause incorrectly all the time. Some people call it passing the buck. People will perform their daily routines and any hurdles they encounter they blame some one or some thing for. Very rarely do they attribute it to themselves. It was bad luck, or that person screwed me. If something good happens, it's karma, or it's their personal accomplishment. People will actually know the root cause of the event and still attribute it to something else for personal satisfaction. It's my belief that this emotional state is a cultural phenomena. It's learned behavior from centuries of cultural evolution. If you go to a different culture, people behave vary differently, but in some ways the same, from thousands and millions of years of human development.
Isn't that part of the human condition? It's in all of us. I guess we all just have to learn to take responsibility and acknowledge our weaknesses and try to enhance our strengths. I do think some folk do it more than others though. But isn't that life? Learning?
There is no way to prove mathematically that the prenatal environment, infancy, childhood, adolescence, adulthood, social interaction, relationships, culture, all the experiences and stages of human development, individually, culturally and historically actually is what people are. That's why it's called a soft-science. Humans are chaotic so they are hard to understand. And some of them behave unacceptably, but we are all fucked up, I know that much.
well why should they? what have the kurds ever done for the US of A?
This one sentence sums up perfectly about half of the people on the M.T.
This type of juvenile, immoral, jingoistic school playground horseshit is why America is the most hated nation on earth.
Shame.
There was a study released not too long ago which said that when women are pregnant with male fetuses, the woman's immune system detects the male hormones from the fetus and sends antibodies to attack it. They think this might be a contributing factor in behavioral disorders amongst males.
This is interesting sponger, got anymore info on it?
I personally don't really care if the trial was fair or not. He obviously did those things. Prolonging that trial for the sake of thoroughness would've been a waste of time. It would be like giving John Gotti presumable innocence when his captains are sitting right there pointing him out as the Don.
It wouldn't have been a waste of time for the families of the Kurds. It would have afforded them the opportunity to have their holocaust acknowledged and they would have had their "day in court". Now he is free and will never have to answer for or acknowledge those crimes. That doesn't seem very fair to me. Regardless of what they decided was a fair punishment those people still deserve to have the crimes commited against them by this man acknowledged.
Comments
Well, thank you!
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
usa lied about wmd and about lots of stuff-how do we know hes really dead?
they should have given him life in prison
http://groups.msn.com/PearlJamNirvana/messages.msnw
My pleasure girl!!! You deserve to take a bow for this one!!!
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
I clapped and cheered for Abook and I was not acknowledged. :(
Definitely some really good points Abook.
Isn't it ironic that we kill as an example. We use capital punishment as a deterrent, or in other words, an example. As they say teach by example, that means to show someone how to act.
Violence begets violence, for the Christian folks, that's what Jesus was telling you. Eye for an Eye was old testament, it's what God had originally taught, but Jesus reversed and said "Turn the other cheek". Don't ask me why, I have no idea why God would change his word. That's just what I read and that's what my family believes.
It is possible to dislike a person's actions without disliking a person. This is where I find my neutrality. I can look at an act and determine an appropriate punishment without having any emotional connection to the individual. It's not sympathy, it's profiling. I don't know Saddam's history but he could have been through all kinds of shit, just being born Iraqi puts him in an underdeveloped political and social environment. The religious supervenience of politics in Iraq is insane.
P.s. WooT I found a word my spell-checker doesn't recognize.
Mihi cura futuri.
The elements they speak to me.
http://espn.go.com/espnradiostations/NewYork1050/gallery/35218855.html
so cute they are
I'm sorry, you are absolutely right, Ahnimus. Thank you. I think I'm just a bit more weary with you sometimes concerning my ability to detect sarcasm. I knew we were on the same page and should have responded.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
Sorry Ahnimus, it's really difficult to understand where you are coming from some times. I have mentioned that you can be a little scary!;) I'll go back and read it all again now with new eyes.
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
Mihi cura futuri.
The elements they speak to me.
http://espn.go.com/espnradiostations/NewYork1050/gallery/35218855.html
so cute they are
I completely agree with this Ahnimus. I really don't see what purpose killing another serves as a deterent. It only makes the one meting out the punishment less and all of us lesser for allowing it. I believe that there is good and evil in EVERY person. Just the degree varies. What's that quote? I think, "There are no bad people only bad acts."
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
Yea, I'm too damn serious usually.
No need to apologize, I honestly never expected you to acknowledge it. I'm just teasing.
Well you are awfully nice to me considering you find me scary.
I really appreciate that.
Well, that is the thing. Look beneath the surface. Because there are no bad people. We all make mistakes, some mistakes are more severe than others. Life is one long learning process. The things we take for granted were learned when we were children. Just imagine growing up in a different environment and your whole life changes.
I know I would like sushi if I grew up in Japan. But I don't, I grew up in Canada and neither of my parents liked sushi, so I never ate it. Even taste adapts to experience. The foods we consume as children become the foods we love. How does that go? "My parents always made me eat peas, and I hated peas, but now I love 'em!".
I'm ahead, I'm a man
I'm the first mammal to wear pants, yeah
I'm at peace with my lust
I can kill 'cause in God I trust, yeah
My pleasure and happy to be nice to you although sometimes I suspect a little foolhardy!;) The other night, I was discussing with a friend a thread you had been posting on that I wanted to respond to but said it'll be like poking a lion with a little stick!;) You need to be prepared! I think I've mentioned before I got you pegged as a Caramelo Koala anyways!
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
I think if a person is going to take another person's life, that person should at least earn the right to do it. Otherwise, it's like hunting. To me, what makes hunting wrong is that it is really an unfair sport for the animal. The hunter, the coward that he is, shouldn't have the right to kill the animal if he can't kill it with his bare hands. Otherwise, it's like cheating.
Of course, the exception to that is when the hunter is really hunting for food that he otherwise would not be able to get. And the parallel to that is the Iraqi people killing Saddam because that is the only way to rid the country of his influence. We know that not to be the case.
So, in essence, it's like the Iraqi people are a bunch of cowards who in fact are so cowardly that they pretend as though they've earned the right to kill Saddam Hussein. The truth again is that they didn't earn that right. By killing him now, they are just showing to the world how much they've really wanted to kill him all along, but just didn't have the guts to do it themselves. They rather their families and friends get tortured and executed before risking their own necks. If a guy like Saddam ever came to California, you had better believe I'd be loading my rifle and heading right on over to his house before he lays a finger on anyone close to me. If I die in the process, so be it. If I hide away like a coward and let someone else kill him, then I had better be either really forgiving or just stay out of sight. The Iraqi people are doing neither, and that is what makes them an even sadder nation of people than before Saddam was removed from power.
So, I'm saying is that Saddam deserved better not because he is a fellow human being, but because he at least earned his way to power. He fought his way to the top of a regime that was just as bloody and crooked as any other. What he accomplished took balls and cunning. Meanwhile, the Iraqi people hid in fear and cowardice under this brutal dictatorship. They were accomplices in their own victimization. That is why their right to kill saddam should be stripped from them until they understand that in spite of his capture and imprisonment, he is more of a man and more deserving of life than any Iraqi who voted for his death.
http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=272825
I think people can learn to be bad and choose to continue being bad, do something bad and then continue to make bad choices and never rectify that in themselves. Some people do bad, learn from being bad and don't repeat their mistakes. It only takes the influence of one mostly good person to help change that. Unfortunately those opportunities don't present themselves for everyone. And as to peas! Well! Isn't that parental brainwashing at work!!! It's called nurture I believe! Good thing my folks don't like tripe is all I can say!!
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
A little while ago someone posted last words of inmates being executed in Texas. I read through a lot of them. Every last one of them had a message for someone they loved. A parent, a sibling, a friend, they all felt compassion for at least one person. I think if they didn't, that would be cause for their behavior as well. It implies to me that they had problems with society in general.
Have you ever noticed that people attribute cause incorrectly all the time. Some people call it passing the buck. People will perform their daily routines and any hurdles they encounter they blame some one or some thing for. Very rarely do they attribute it to themselves. It was bad luck, or that person screwed me. If something good happens, it's karma, or it's their personal accomplishment. People will actually know the root cause of the event and still attribute it to something else for personal satisfaction. It's my belief that this emotional state is a cultural phenomena. It's learned behavior from centuries of cultural evolution. If you go to a different culture, people behave vary differently, but in some ways the same, from thousands and millions of years of human development.
There is no way to prove mathematically that the prenatal environment, infancy, childhood, adolescence, adulthood, social interaction, relationships, culture, all the experiences and stages of human development, individually, culturally and historically actually is what people are. That's why it's called a soft-science. Humans are chaotic so they are hard to understand. And some of them behave unacceptably, but we are all fucked up, I know that much.
http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=272825
It is a joke of a trial. I can't even understand how someone accused of more than 10 years worth of crimes can be tried in a few months.
They didn't even convict him for everything he did... talk about closure.
That's 2 ex-dictators dead in a year though.
http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=272825
So by following this same logic I take it you'd feel the exact same way about George Bush and Rumsfeld being hanged for crimes against humanity and for the death of hundreds of thousands?
I wonder if you'd feel the same way if a member of your family was one day charged with a crime they didn't commit and sent to death row?
Isn't that part of the human condition? It's in all of us. I guess we all just have to learn to take responsibility and acknowledge our weaknesses and try to enhance our strengths. I do think some folk do it more than others though. But isn't that life? Learning?
YUP! I agree, nobody gets through unscathed!
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
This one sentence sums up perfectly about half of the people on the M.T.
This type of juvenile, immoral, jingoistic school playground horseshit is why America is the most hated nation on earth.
Shame.
This is interesting sponger, got anymore info on it?
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
Happy New everybody!
I expect the New Year will bring plenty more of the same lies, mass murder, and terror!
Thanks to America and Tony Blair for bringing freedom and democracy to the world!!
It wouldn't have been a waste of time for the families of the Kurds. It would have afforded them the opportunity to have their holocaust acknowledged and they would have had their "day in court". Now he is free and will never have to answer for or acknowledge those crimes. That doesn't seem very fair to me. Regardless of what they decided was a fair punishment those people still deserve to have the crimes commited against them by this man acknowledged.
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
Byrnzie, don't forget pissy little Johnny Howard! He deserves your "thanks" too!
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
True. The world has plenty of spineless poodles to thank for following on the Bush Administrations coat-tails.