He couldn't if he wanted to. And if I had to guess whether or not that want was there, I'd have to say that it is, given his track record thus far.
What makes Saddam and Bush different is that Saddam took leadership over a society that was already devoid of the checks and balances that american leaders are faced with.
In spite of these checks and balances, Bush has already proven that he has every intention of side-stepping them wherever loopholes in our system permit.
And rather than domesticating mass murder like Saddam did, Bush exported it in the form of war for oil -the only difference being the borders behind which those murders were committed.
And why did Saddam commit genocide and mass murder? Was it because he is a sick, twisted, psychopath. Could it be possible that it was the only way to maintain power and order within the violent and sectarian country that is Iraq?
He gassed the kurds because they were forming alliances with the Iranians. The Iranians were creeping right up on Saddam's borders and threatening the security of his entire nation.
Therefore, he committed mass murder on the basis of national security. Sound familiar?
Im not in any stretch calling a bush a saint, however i dont think its fair to say "worse"
But if you re-read my post you'll notice that I wasn't speaking of just George Bush Jr. specifically, I was speaking of the history of our leaders and it's operative divisions.
Just because Americans aren't getting shot immediately on the spot for speaking out (although quite a few have been beaten during protests and rallies) that doesn't mean that our leaders have not commited very similar attrocities.
Truth is, in the history of our country many have been silenced for many reasons. Just not always " in the direct, shoot them dead on the spot " manner.
The CIA and many American Presidents, politicans and businessmen have been at the root of causing thousands upon thousand of deaths, for the purpose of furthering their agenda and protecting their investments.
In case you haven't noticed, speaking out against this administration, over the last several years, is a risky thing to do.
Good points and I see what you are saying. In the past few years it has been risky, at least for careers of public figures, to speak out against this administration.
I just don't think we are on the same level of some of these people who are truly evil.
Seeing visions of falling up somehow.
Pensacola '94 New Orleans '95 Birmingham '98 New Orleans '00 New Orleans '03 Tampa '08 New Orleans '10 - Jazzfest New Orleans '16 - Jazzfest Fenway Park '18 St. Louis '22
Firstly, people discussing issues on this board doesn't constitute anyone 'speaking out', to the point that it will have any bearing on those in power.
Secondly, ticking a box once every 4 years and making a choice between two different shades of corporate shit doesn't constitute democracy.
I agree that speaking out on this board doesn't constitute anyone 'speaking out' to the point that it will have any bearing on those in power. But my point was that if you were to speak out in a public forum in Iraq or North Korea, the odds are you would be put in jail if not killed. I am just trying to prove the point that America is nowhere near the same level that some people are saying.
And ticking a box once every 4 years whether you think the choices are shit or not does in fact constitute democracy. Having that choice is the root of democracy.
Seeing visions of falling up somehow.
Pensacola '94 New Orleans '95 Birmingham '98 New Orleans '00 New Orleans '03 Tampa '08 New Orleans '10 - Jazzfest New Orleans '16 - Jazzfest Fenway Park '18 St. Louis '22
You people are so creepy! You'll hate anyone the idiot box tells you you should. Burn in hell and all that crap is disgusting. There is no hell, morons. You're telling me you hate Saddam for doing the same shit you're on here cheering about?? Take a long, hard look in the mirror.
i agree....
there are definitely some creepy morons on this board.........
Take me piece by piece..... Till there aint nothing left worth taking away from me.....
Look at the people being thrown out of rallies because they wore a t-shirt that was not in support of Bush and his administration. You know what this kind of crap leads to? When tolerated and accepted by the masses, it leads to Saddam-like rule.
Do you honestly think this could lead to America falling under Saddam-like rule? I understand the feelings of hatred towards this administration by some people, but that is a little over the top for me.
Seeing visions of falling up somehow.
Pensacola '94 New Orleans '95 Birmingham '98 New Orleans '00 New Orleans '03 Tampa '08 New Orleans '10 - Jazzfest New Orleans '16 - Jazzfest Fenway Park '18 St. Louis '22
it sickens me to see all this sympathy for Saddam and the whole "anti kill Sadaam" and then to lump Bush in the same sentence as this man is repulsive...
R.I.P Saddam??? how about rott in HELL
If see "sympathy for Saddam" , then you need glasses. Or visit your eye doctor ( or local reading comprehension center) to correct your lens or reading skills.
There was a man who lived in a country a few years ago. This man was not respectful to the current government and had no problems speaking his mind. The president of this government caught wind of this man's opinions and ordered he and his 5 year old son, to be brought to the presidential palace. The man was tied up, and forced to watch, as the president ordered his henchmen to tie the boy's arms and have a machine on either side of him pull completely untill the arms were yanked out of the socket.
The man and his mutilated child were sent home, and the man never spoke out again publicly.
The president who ordered the torture of the 5 year old was Sadamm Hussein.
For whatever your issues are with Bush, do not lower your intelligence to comparing him to someone like this.
I'll keep taking punches
Untill their will grows tired
There was a man who lived in a country a few years ago. This man was not respectful to the current government and had no problems speaking his mind. The president of this government caught wind of this man's opinions and ordered he and his 5 year old son, to be brought to the presidential palace. The man was tied up, and forced to watch, as the president ordered his henchmen to tie the boy's arms and have a machine on either side of him pull completely untill the arms were yanked out of the socket.
The man and his mutilated child were sent home, and the man never spoke out again publicly.
The president who ordered the torture of the 5 year old was Sadamm Hussein.
For whatever your issues are with Bush, do not lower your intelligence to comparing him to someone like this.
Very well said. This should end this talk of comparing Bush to Sadamm Hussein. Please.
Seeing visions of falling up somehow.
Pensacola '94 New Orleans '95 Birmingham '98 New Orleans '00 New Orleans '03 Tampa '08 New Orleans '10 - Jazzfest New Orleans '16 - Jazzfest Fenway Park '18 St. Louis '22
and bush ordered the destruction of a country,dropping of bombs, many of which landing on kids and other innocents. how is that any different? are these american crimes less because it was done from a distance? Bombs and WMDs landing on homes and people.
Yes, america and bush, nothing like saddam. You see saddam has now paid for his crimes, Bush will never. That's the only difference.
and bush ordered the destruction of a country,dropping of bombs, many of which landing on kids and other innocents. how is that any different? are these american crimes less because it was done from a distance? Bombs and WMDs landing on homes and people.
Yes, america and bush, nothing like saddam. You see saddam has now paid for his crimes, Bush will never. That's the only difference.
Yeah, thats exactly whats being said.
No one is in anyway absolving Bush in this thread, but to compare a fool's selfish war to systematic individual torture of innocent children and citizens is an overdramtic overstatement.
If see "sympathy for Saddam" , then you need glasses. Or visit your eye doctor ( or local reading comprehension center) to correct your lens or reading skills.
I dont see any saddam sympathy, just a general life sympathy.
Even though i dont agree with the view, and think its been presented by some in a very judgemental view, I can understand the view of against murder/killing in any situation, and i see no problem with it.
Thanks folks, I was starting to read back over my posts to see if I was stuttering or something.;) Don't wish for or celebrate Suddam's or anybody elses death. But it has all played out as it has. And so be it. And not to get folk screaming at me from all angles but the reason people are making comparisons to George is because they can feel the undermining of the people. Perhaps not so easy to recognise his "evil" (for want of a better word) because it is miles away and happenening to somebody else and Suddam's was up close and personal and reported as such. George has a pretty good media advisor. We will probably never know all the things that he has really been perpertrating. His "image" is maintained quite well by his agent.;)
Yeah, thats exactly whats being said.
No one is in anyway absolving Bush in this thread, but to compare a fool's selfish war to systematic individual torture of innocent children and citizens is an overdramtic overstatement.
For sure bro, but keep in mind that the result of the fools selfish war is the torture and killing of innocents. so the line is very fine. but also very transparent.
Yeah, thats exactly whats being said.
No one is in anyway absolving Bush in this thread, but to compare a fool's selfish war to systematic individual torture of innocent children and citizens is an overdramtic overstatement.
Systematic individual torture of innocent children and citizens are what kept him power, just as the dropping of bombs onto the homes of innocent children and citizens keeps the US in power.
Systematic individual torture of innocent children and citizens are what kept him power, just as the dropping of bombs onto the homes of innocent children and citizens keeps the US in power.
Starry, starry night.
Paint your palette blue and grey,
Look out on a summer's day,
With eyes that know the darkness in my soul.
Shadows on the hills,
Sketch the trees and the daffodils,
Catch the breeze and the winter chills,
In colors on the snowy linen land.
Now I understand what you tried to say to me,
How you suffered for your sanity,
How you tried to set them free.
They would not listen, they did not know how.
Perhaps they'll listen now.
Starry, starry night.
Flaming flowers that brightly blaze,
Swirling clouds in violet haze,
Reflect in Vincent's eyes of china blue.
Colors changing hue, morning field of amber grain,
Weathered faces lined in pain,
Are soothed beneath the artist's loving hand.
Now I understand what you tried to say to me,
How you suffered for your sanity,
How you tried to set them free.
They would not listen, they did not know how.
Perhaps they'll listen now.
For they could not love you,
But still your love was true.
And when no hope was left in sight
On that starry, starry night,
You took your life, as lovers often do.
But I could have told you, Vincent,
This world was never meant for one
As beautiful as you.
Starry, starry night.
Portraits hung in empty halls,
Frameless head on nameless walls,
With eyes that watch the world and can't forget.
Like the strangers that you've met,
The ragged men in the ragged clothes,
The silver thorn of bloody rose,
Lie crushed and broken on the virgin snow.
Now I think I know what you tried to say to me,
How you suffered for your sanity,
How you tried to set them free.
They would not listen, they're not listening still.
Perhaps they never will...
all insanity:
a derivitive of nature.
nature is god
god is love
love is light
Memories come down and me once again
caught without an umbrella
memories come down and me once again
caught without an umbrella
Well it was not -that he was particularly
suicidal he just didn't care wether he lived or died though
it was just a matter of time
you got yours and I got mine
when he turned sixteen
they said he could drive
when he turned eighteen they said he could die
when he turned twenty one he could buy rum
but no one ever taught him
how things were done
then an angel appeared inside his head
she said boy do you think
you're realty better off dead
he don't know he just shook his heed
(chorus)
'Cause he thought the day that he died
would be a normal day for the people on the other side
He thought that the day that he died
would be a normal day for the people on the other side
but memories come down and me once again
caught without an umbrella
But time was a matter of velocity
in this age of information and technology
he would cry in the shower
put his face in a towel hot from the dryer
then he sat down and wrote a note to his mom
when all is said and done
can I still be your son
because manhood is so elusive
and respect is so exclusive
and I got a daddy to prove it
I think I'll never get to shake it and move
then he tied a rope around his neck
looked in the mirror and said what the heck
I'm gonna bring the whole roof down with me
and then he jumped
(chorus)
"Come in Vernon'
But halt way down
he heard what the angel said
and he realized -he really didn't want to be dead
he landed with a thump- his head was reeling
layin in a lump- looked up at the ceiling
and saw that the rope... had broke
well he failed at the only thing
that he thought he couldn't fail at
that was takin' his own life
and he said" I kinda like livin'
he could feel his heart makin a boom
sounded like music in the next room
music in the next room
he said "it's time for a celebration"
felt his hands looked at his face
lifted the rope off his throat, "I ain't such a disgrace."
he said manhood is so elusive and respect is so exclusive
and I gotta daddy to prove, that some people never get to
shake it and move.
(chorus)
And He knew that the day that he tried
was not a normal day for the people
And memories come down and me once again
am caught without an umbrella
all insanity:
a derivitive of nature.
nature is god
god is love
love is light
There was a man who lived in a country a few years ago. This man was not respectful to the current government and had no problems speaking his mind. The president of this government caught wind of this man's opinions and ordered he and his 5 year old son, to be brought to the presidential palace. The man was tied up, and forced to watch, as the president ordered his henchmen to tie the boy's arms and have a machine on either side of him pull completely untill the arms were yanked out of the socket.
The man and his mutilated child were sent home, and the man never spoke out again publicly.
The president who ordered the torture of the 5 year old was Sadamm Hussein.
For whatever your issues are with Bush, do not lower your intelligence to comparing him to someone like this.
is this post 100% fact????
anyone????
Take me piece by piece..... Till there aint nothing left worth taking away from me.....
I couldn't find anything on those particular details, but his regime apparently did torture children as young as two years old to get information from their parents.
He couldn't if he wanted to. And if I had to guess whether or not that want was there, I'd have to say that it is, given his track record thus far.
What makes Saddam and Bush different is that Saddam took leadership over a society that was already devoid of the checks and balances that american leaders are faced with.
In spite of these checks and balances, Bush has already proven that he has every intention of side-stepping them wherever loopholes in our system permit.
And rather than domesticating mass murder like Saddam did, Bush exported it in the form of war for oil -the only difference being the borders behind which those murders were committed.
And why did Saddam commit genocide and mass murder? Was it because he is a sick, twisted, psychopath. Could it be possible that it was the only way to maintain power and order within the violent and sectarian country that is Iraq?
He gassed the kurds because they were forming alliances with the Iranians. The Iranians were creeping right up on Saddam's borders and threatening the security of his entire nation.
Therefore, he committed mass murder on the basis of national security. Sound familiar?
Nobody on this thread, as far as i can see, has made excuses for Sadaam or underestimated what a sick fuck he was. The arguments here are about the right and wrongs of the death penalty, and of equal justice - i.e, if Sadaam was hung for overseeing the deaths of thousands of civilians, then Bush et al should also be hung for overseeing the deaths of thousands in an illegal war of occupation.
As far as Sadaams torture chambers e.t.c - anyone heard of Abu Ghraib?
Nobody on this thread, as far as i can see, has made excuses for Sadaam or underestimated what a sick fuck he was. The arguments here are about the right and wrongs of the death penalty, and of equal justice - i.e, if Sadaam was hung for overseeing the deaths of thousands of civilians, then Bush et al should also be hung for overseeing the deaths of thousands in an illegal war of occupation.
As far as Sadaams torture chambers e.t.c - anyone heard of Abu Ghraib?
****ROUND OF APPLAUSE**** Thank you Byrnzie! Well said.
It is if you are brainwashed into thinking that Saddam was the enemy. The worst part is that Saddam could have kept on torturing children and feeding on their flesh if he wouldn't have threatened to sell his oil to China.
1/12/1879, 4/8/1156, 2/6/1977, who gives a shit, ...
" Who encouraged Saddam to invade Iran in 1980, which was the greatest war crime he has committed for it led to the deaths of a million and a half souls? And who sold him the components for the chemical weapons with which he drenched Iran and the Kurds? We did. No wonder the Americans, who controlled Saddam's weird trial, forbad any mention of this, his most obscene atrocity, in the charges against him. Could he not have been handed over to the Iranians for sentencing for this massive war crime? Of course not. Because that would also expose our culpability."
Comments
Im not in any stretch calling a bush a saint, however i dont think its fair to say "worse"
Good points and I see what you are saying. In the past few years it has been risky, at least for careers of public figures, to speak out against this administration.
I just don't think we are on the same level of some of these people who are truly evil.
Pensacola '94
New Orleans '95
Birmingham '98
New Orleans '00
New Orleans '03
Tampa '08
New Orleans '10 - Jazzfest
New Orleans '16 - Jazzfest
Fenway Park '18
St. Louis '22
I agree that speaking out on this board doesn't constitute anyone 'speaking out' to the point that it will have any bearing on those in power. But my point was that if you were to speak out in a public forum in Iraq or North Korea, the odds are you would be put in jail if not killed. I am just trying to prove the point that America is nowhere near the same level that some people are saying.
And ticking a box once every 4 years whether you think the choices are shit or not does in fact constitute democracy. Having that choice is the root of democracy.
Pensacola '94
New Orleans '95
Birmingham '98
New Orleans '00
New Orleans '03
Tampa '08
New Orleans '10 - Jazzfest
New Orleans '16 - Jazzfest
Fenway Park '18
St. Louis '22
there are definitely some creepy morons on this board.........
Till there aint nothing left worth taking away from me.....
Do you honestly think this could lead to America falling under Saddam-like rule? I understand the feelings of hatred towards this administration by some people, but that is a little over the top for me.
Pensacola '94
New Orleans '95
Birmingham '98
New Orleans '00
New Orleans '03
Tampa '08
New Orleans '10 - Jazzfest
New Orleans '16 - Jazzfest
Fenway Park '18
St. Louis '22
If see "sympathy for Saddam" , then you need glasses. Or visit your eye doctor ( or local reading comprehension center) to correct your lens or reading skills.
http://ebaumsworld.com/2006/12/saddam-full-execution.html
The man and his mutilated child were sent home, and the man never spoke out again publicly.
The president who ordered the torture of the 5 year old was Sadamm Hussein.
For whatever your issues are with Bush, do not lower your intelligence to comparing him to someone like this.
Untill their will grows tired
Very well said. This should end this talk of comparing Bush to Sadamm Hussein. Please.
Pensacola '94
New Orleans '95
Birmingham '98
New Orleans '00
New Orleans '03
Tampa '08
New Orleans '10 - Jazzfest
New Orleans '16 - Jazzfest
Fenway Park '18
St. Louis '22
Yes, america and bush, nothing like saddam. You see saddam has now paid for his crimes, Bush will never. That's the only difference.
Yeah, thats exactly whats being said.
No one is in anyway absolving Bush in this thread, but to compare a fool's selfish war to systematic individual torture of innocent children and citizens is an overdramtic overstatement.
Thanks folks, I was starting to read back over my posts to see if I was stuttering or something.;) Don't wish for or celebrate Suddam's or anybody elses death. But it has all played out as it has. And so be it. And not to get folk screaming at me from all angles but the reason people are making comparisons to George is because they can feel the undermining of the people. Perhaps not so easy to recognise his "evil" (for want of a better word) because it is miles away and happenening to somebody else and Suddam's was up close and personal and reported as such. George has a pretty good media advisor. We will probably never know all the things that he has really been perpertrating. His "image" is maintained quite well by his agent.;)
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
For sure bro, but keep in mind that the result of the fools selfish war is the torture and killing of innocents. so the line is very fine. but also very transparent.
Systematic individual torture of innocent children and citizens are what kept him power, just as the dropping of bombs onto the homes of innocent children and citizens keeps the US in power.
http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=272825
a very sad reality of how things work.
That's a pretty rediculous assumption to make about president bush. How about less insane assumptions and more talk about what is factual?
Paint your palette blue and grey,
Look out on a summer's day,
With eyes that know the darkness in my soul.
Shadows on the hills,
Sketch the trees and the daffodils,
Catch the breeze and the winter chills,
In colors on the snowy linen land.
Now I understand what you tried to say to me,
How you suffered for your sanity,
How you tried to set them free.
They would not listen, they did not know how.
Perhaps they'll listen now.
Starry, starry night.
Flaming flowers that brightly blaze,
Swirling clouds in violet haze,
Reflect in Vincent's eyes of china blue.
Colors changing hue, morning field of amber grain,
Weathered faces lined in pain,
Are soothed beneath the artist's loving hand.
Now I understand what you tried to say to me,
How you suffered for your sanity,
How you tried to set them free.
They would not listen, they did not know how.
Perhaps they'll listen now.
For they could not love you,
But still your love was true.
And when no hope was left in sight
On that starry, starry night,
You took your life, as lovers often do.
But I could have told you, Vincent,
This world was never meant for one
As beautiful as you.
Starry, starry night.
Portraits hung in empty halls,
Frameless head on nameless walls,
With eyes that watch the world and can't forget.
Like the strangers that you've met,
The ragged men in the ragged clothes,
The silver thorn of bloody rose,
Lie crushed and broken on the virgin snow.
Now I think I know what you tried to say to me,
How you suffered for your sanity,
How you tried to set them free.
They would not listen, they're not listening still.
Perhaps they never will...
a derivitive of nature.
nature is god
god is love
love is light
Memories come down and me once again
caught without an umbrella
memories come down and me once again
caught without an umbrella
Well it was not -that he was particularly
suicidal he just didn't care wether he lived or died though
it was just a matter of time
you got yours and I got mine
when he turned sixteen
they said he could drive
when he turned eighteen they said he could die
when he turned twenty one he could buy rum
but no one ever taught him
how things were done
then an angel appeared inside his head
she said boy do you think
you're realty better off dead
he don't know he just shook his heed
(chorus)
'Cause he thought the day that he died
would be a normal day for the people on the other side
He thought that the day that he died
would be a normal day for the people on the other side
but memories come down and me once again
caught without an umbrella
But time was a matter of velocity
in this age of information and technology
he would cry in the shower
put his face in a towel hot from the dryer
then he sat down and wrote a note to his mom
when all is said and done
can I still be your son
because manhood is so elusive
and respect is so exclusive
and I got a daddy to prove it
I think I'll never get to shake it and move
then he tied a rope around his neck
looked in the mirror and said what the heck
I'm gonna bring the whole roof down with me
and then he jumped
(chorus)
"Come in Vernon'
But halt way down
he heard what the angel said
and he realized -he really didn't want to be dead
he landed with a thump- his head was reeling
layin in a lump- looked up at the ceiling
and saw that the rope... had broke
well he failed at the only thing
that he thought he couldn't fail at
that was takin' his own life
and he said" I kinda like livin'
he could feel his heart makin a boom
sounded like music in the next room
music in the next room
he said "it's time for a celebration"
felt his hands looked at his face
lifted the rope off his throat, "I ain't such a disgrace."
he said manhood is so elusive and respect is so exclusive
and I gotta daddy to prove, that some people never get to
shake it and move.
(chorus)
And He knew that the day that he tried
was not a normal day for the people
And memories come down and me once again
am caught without an umbrella
a derivitive of nature.
nature is god
god is love
love is light
You first.
http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=272825
anyone????
Till there aint nothing left worth taking away from me.....
I couldn't find anything on those particular details, but his regime apparently did torture children as young as two years old to get information from their parents.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/from_our_own_correspondent/2058253.stm
http://www.aim.org/media_monitor/A366_0_2_0_C
http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=272825
Oh really?
Please explain what portion of his post is not factual.
As far as Sadaams torture chambers e.t.c - anyone heard of Abu Ghraib?
****ROUND OF APPLAUSE**** Thank you Byrnzie! Well said.
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
http://news.independent.co.uk/world/fisk/article2112555.ece
Thanks Peter C. That was interesting. Still bidding on Ebay for Mirror Ball, thought you'd like to know.
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
It is if you are brainwashed into thinking that Saddam was the enemy. The worst part is that Saddam could have kept on torturing children and feeding on their flesh if he wouldn't have threatened to sell his oil to China.
Hi Jeanie,hope you're okay.
Whoa. That's a great piece. Thanks for sharing.
" Who encouraged Saddam to invade Iran in 1980, which was the greatest war crime he has committed for it led to the deaths of a million and a half souls? And who sold him the components for the chemical weapons with which he drenched Iran and the Kurds? We did. No wonder the Americans, who controlled Saddam's weird trial, forbad any mention of this, his most obscene atrocity, in the charges against him. Could he not have been handed over to the Iranians for sentencing for this massive war crime? Of course not. Because that would also expose our culpability."
Awesome. Right on target.