Science Without a Soul

Options
1…1213151718…24

Comments

  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    angelica wrote:
    I don't like fiction either. And it's one of my favourites. You've got to read it, if only to tell me what you think. It would take one day.

    I really can't sit through fiction. I've tried. Especially ones with wierd names. I might consider it if you would consider reading The Engine of Reason, The Seat of the Soul by Paul Churchland.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    angelica wrote:
    I'm sure they have impressions and sensations of God and metaphysics.

    But, how can you be sure?
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    catefrances wrote:
    tell me why you think pascal is ignorant.

    Another point is, Pascal is describing a quality of his reason alone. He isn't describing a quality of minds or matter. What he is describing is his own ignorance.

    "there being nothing so inconceivable as to say that matter knows itself"

    conceivability is a quality of an individual mind. Some cannot conceive how DNA instructs the structure of the body. But rest assured, there are some who can. As I said, Pascal is describing his own shortcoming, unbeknownst to him. He obviously feels as if he's speaking for everyone.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • angelica
    angelica Posts: 6,038
    Ahnimus wrote:
    But, how can you be sure?
    Because they are attached to reality and the unseen forces that animate them. They would have the being sense of being these forces, without "thinking" about them and using symbols to objectify these forces like humans do.

    I mean that they sense them, without intellectualizing it. They ARE these forces and accept what they are, unquestioningly.

    edit: and by "sense" I mean in terms of an inner sense, or impression, not given by the 5 senses. Rather extrasensory or intuitive.
    "The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr

    http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta

    Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    angelica wrote:
    Because they are attached to reality and the unseen forces that animate them. They would have the being sense of being these forces, without "thinking" about them and using symbols to objectify these forces like humans do.

    I mean that they sense them, without intellectualizing it. They ARE these forces and accept what they are, unquestioningly.

    Clearly this an assumption through introspection, no?
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • angelica
    angelica Posts: 6,038
    Ahnimus wrote:
    Clearly this an assumption through introspection, no?
    :D

    I'd say a Know-ing through introspection. Most of us are totally unconscious of who we are. Even of our bodies. We think we are not our bodies. Which is just silly to me! Animals are good at "being". They just are. We're always striving to "get there" and we overlook who we are.
    "The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr

    http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta

    Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    angelica wrote:
    :D

    I'd say a Know-ing through introspection. Most of us are totally unconscious of who we are. Even of our bodies. We think we are not our bodies. Which is just silly to me! Animals are good at "being". They just are. We're always striving to "get there" and we overlook who we are.

    How does your introspective knowing differ from others who have been wrong, like Renee Descarte?
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • angelica
    angelica Posts: 6,038
    Ahnimus, how do you currently view our point of individuality? I think both you and I agree that we are not really local as individual humans as we appear. Or do you not agree?
    "The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr

    http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta

    Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    angelica wrote:
    Ahnimus, how do you currently view our point of individuality? I think both you and I agree that we are not really local as individual humans as we appear. Or do you not agree?

    Nothing about us is independent of the external world. Humans consist of particles of matter strictly obeying the laws of thermodynamics. We move with the universe, the universe moves us. Not the other way around.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • angelica
    angelica Posts: 6,038
    Ahnimus wrote:
    How does your introspective knowing differ from others who have been wrong, like Renee Descarte?
    How is Descarte wrong?
    "The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr

    http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta

    Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
  • gue_barium
    gue_barium Posts: 5,515
    Have neither of you had an orgasm yet?
    all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
    except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
  • angelica
    angelica Posts: 6,038
    gue!
    "The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr

    http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta

    Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
  • angelica
    angelica Posts: 6,038
    Ahnimus wrote:
    Nothing about us is independent of the external world. Humans consist of particles of matter strictly obeying the laws of thermodynamics. We move with the universe, the universe moves us. Not the other way around.
    Could you elaborate? I'm not really understanding your language.
    "The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr

    http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta

    Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    angelica wrote:
    How is Descarte wrong?

    Descartes mind-body problem, dubbed Cartesian Dualism.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    angelica wrote:
    Could you elaborate? I'm not really understanding your language.

    We are no different than rocks in our proximity to physical reality. We are part of physical reality and no part of us exists beyond these bounds.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • angelica
    angelica Posts: 6,038
    Ahnimus wrote:
    Descartes mind-body problem, dubbed Cartesian Dualism.
    I'm not sure anyone's model for conceptualizing reality can be "wrong".
    "The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr

    http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta

    Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    angelica wrote:
    I'm not sure anyone's model for conceptualizing reality can be "wrong".

    Then you need to read more modern philosophy and neuroscience :)
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • angelica
    angelica Posts: 6,038
    Ahnimus wrote:
    Then you need to read more modern philosophy and neuroscience :)
    If modern neuroscience and philosophy is about making people wrong, I'll pass. ;)
    "The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr

    http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta

    Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    angelica wrote:
    If modern neuroscience and philosophy is about making people wrong, I'll pass. ;)

    It's about what is right.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • angelica
    angelica Posts: 6,038
    Ahnimus wrote:
    It's about what is right.
    I realize you think that.
    "The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr

    http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta

    Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!

Categories