Science Without a Soul

angelica

MahoganySouls wrote:

Do you not think that life enlightens everyone?

Please help me understand who you are by answering my questions.

That's what I meant. That life enlightens us all.

I'm considering answering the questions.

MahoganySouls

angelica wrote:

That's what I meant. That life enlightens us all.

I'm considering answering the questions.

So then if everyone is enlightened by life, how can anyone be wrong? If we are to be on an "even playing field" with the absence of "power plays", then it is fair to assume that your outlook is right, and Soulseekings outlook is right and my outlook is right. That being the case, why are we even debating? Why did you post videos to support your ideology that Psychiatry is flawed?

angelica

MahoganySouls wrote:

So then if everyone is enlightened by life, how can anyone be wrong? If we are to be on an "even playing field" with the absence of "power plays", then it is fair to assume that your outlook is right, and Soulseekings outlook is right and my outlook is right. That being the case, why are we even debating? Why did you post videos to support your ideology that Psychiatry is flawed?

Probably one of the main reasons I posted those videos is because I'm integrating some understandings about my experiences. I've been offered some amazing opportunities in my life along the lines of my purpose, and with that some issues with my personal experiences of being degraded a lot have arisen for resolution and integration.

As for the enlightened stuff and who is right or wrong, I'm sure you have your own answers.

MahoganySouls

angelica wrote:

As for the enlightened stuff and who is right or wrong, I'm sure you have your own answers.

but I am asking you to explain yours, to support your comments, to teach your understanding

MahoganySouls

BTW, I visited your myspace. I love the music on your page. Karunesh is an amazing artist.

angelica

MahoganySouls wrote:

So then if everyone is enlightened by life, how can anyone be wrong? If we are to be on an "even playing field" with the absence of "power plays", then it is fair to assume that your outlook is right, and Soulseekings outlook is right and my outlook is right. That being the case, why are we even debating? Why did you post videos to support your ideology that Psychiatry is flawed?

People are in varying stages of awareness. Any type of illumination comes through natural laws, and works through others, through both "good" "bad" or neutral deeds. So we're all channels of our Source energy even though many/most are completely unaware of this.

Personally, I see and accept that every individual is molded by natural law and manifest into a perfect path for perfect reasons. If I go out of synch with nature and the potential I stem from, and if I see things contrary to that perfection, the flaw is in my human perception, not in the perfection of reality/life or natural law.

angelica

MahoganySouls wrote:

What is your quality of life? What are your hobbies and interests? Do you hold down a job? What is your relationship with others like? Do you hear voices? When you speak of spirituality what are your beliefs? Do you continue to go to therapy? How did your "very good psychiatrist" respond to your choices regarding treatment? What does your family think? You mentioned that your daughter was also suffering from mental dysfunction at one point. Is she also cured? How did this come about? Do you believe that mental illness tends to run in families? What are your thoughts on this subject?

I feel my quality of life is high. I feel I'm living my dream. If you've seen my page, you know I do calligraphy. I've written a book (almost finished). 13 years ago, after suffering with "nightmarish" OCD for 5 years, I began to have stunning spiritual experiences that showed me I would heal and that I would share my story and by that others would heal. This path has revealed itself to me every step, and I've only had to walk it. Due to these stunning experiences I was diagnosed with bi-polar disorder 13 years ago. I didn't care, because I knew those experiences were more real than any I'd ever experienced. I accepted the diagnosis, and the ill aspects I experienced, while always keeping my eye on the Light that guided me. This Light had shown me the utter perfection of everything (and continues to on occasion) The Light also showed me the purpose OCD served for me, so I was able to endure it until it went away. I've overcome OCD, bi-polar disorder, addictions, and eating disorders. I understand the energies beneath the disorders and can manipulate them and sometimes I can do so for others. My psychiatrist turned me over to my family doctor years ago. I don't take meds. I don't do therapy. I work. I volunteer. I'm about to start public speaking for educational purposes pertaining to my mental health experiences. I have a close circle of friends who know my truth and support me. I live my purpose.

My psychiatrist supported my choices re: treatment. For example mood stablizers didn't prevent episodes of mania, so I suggested going off them, and he agreed with me, knowing if there would be fallout, I'd have to live through it. There was not fallout. When I was taking meds for bi-polar disorder, I was taking anti-psychotic medication for mania only, as I began to get "high".

I believe the patterns that create mental illness are carried out in families and appear to people as illness, but at a deeper level are merely energy. We can alter our energy on the symbolic level, where our perception of the reality we experience stems from. I also believe that as in my case, the generational cycles can be broken. It's not easy but for me it's been the most beautiful journey I could have imagined. My dream.

My family thought I was "crazy" years ago when I spoke of the healing I would do, and how I would inspire others. So now that I'm obviously brimming with health, they have had to come to terms with that. And they had to take back the illness they once projected on me, thereby facing their own issues, finally.

My children are bright, perceptive and aware/sensitive. We've all had severe issues to deal with and are each very blessed to have individual and healthy senses of "self". My daughter has gone through numerous stages of healing, herself, and also understands many of the underlying dynamics of mental health from experience and from healing. My son, who had two mentally ill grandmothers, and who had a mentally ill mother, was spared developing illness. It was through his birth that I developed post partum depression, from which my OCD started.

The actual healing for myself and my daughter happened by first accepting and addressing our personal issues one by one and then resolving and overcoming them through the methods we were intuitively drawn to and that worked for us. I face all my issues with the expectation to overcome them and to purify my energy.

MahoganySouls

Thank you for taking this step to open up. It certainly sounds like you are in a good place in your life.

Can you elaborate more on the "stunning experiences", guiding light and "methods" you refer to?

It would be amazing to use these techniques and your story to maybe help others as well.

Is your book a chronicle of your experience or is it a healing aid of some sort?

angelica

MahoganySouls wrote:

Thank you for taking this step to open up. It certainly sounds like you are in a good place in your life.

Can you elaborate more on the "stunning experiences", guiding light and "methods" you refer to?

It would be amazing to use these techniques and your story to maybe help others as well.

Is your book a chronicle of your experience or is it a healing aid of some sort?

You are welcome.

My book does both--it shares my experiences and the basics of healing.

Anything I can say about the Light or stunning experiences is symbolic because the experiences were otherworldly and not of concepts we would normally know or consider. I can say that when I am touched by this Light, I've dropped to my knees in tears and humility at how perfect it is, and at the perfection I've been shown. Also, I "see" and understand concepts in that Light, and yet the minute I start to consider, think about them, etc, I automatically start to distort the perfection of what I see. My understanding, though, is that this Light is us. And we are it. We have taken on individual experience and have separated from our truth. We are all progressing back to our truth at our own pace. But we are always one with it. It is only in our awareness that we are not. This Light embraces us at all times. And yet we're mostly oblivious to it. We are all connected and at base we are one. We all make agreements unconsciously to connect for reasons. Everything that happens in our lives is about us even when it seems to be about others.

The methods I've used were all typical treatments for overcoming things. And also, as an intuitive person who set her filters to find empowerment and overcoming, I gravitated towards it. So I've done eating disorder treatment. I've used nicotine gum, and a smoking support group. What I had to do, in essence, was reverse my maladaptive methods and align with healthy ones. I developed a regular fitness health routine years ago. I've given up coffee, TV, drinking, excessive sugar use, etc. I eat much more pristinely than is "normal". The key was that in order to give up these issues, I've had to resolve all the inner stuff that arose in dealing with each step. it was during this process of practical work, and recovering my emotions, and dealing with my one-time repressed traumas, etc, that the "big" disorders began to grow less and less and eventually disappeared. The way I see it is that I began to align with my real self, rather than just my ego. Therefore I've been integrating my energy and the more aligned I am the more positive results I see. We've lost touch with the natural laws, and the fact that when we go against the grain of evolution we feel discomfort, and when we go with it we feel the great feeling of being closer to our potential, and oneness or whole-someness. All lack is an illusion, and an opportunity to grow and find our way home to our truth. There is no loss, separation or death. All those are products of our human perception, which we've taken on to have these illusory experiences which feel very real to us.

The basic problem is that people have lost touch with their base and their power which remains their base and their power despite their obliviousness to it. So we're like Dorothy in the Wizard of Oz, looking outside ourselves, through our life "adventures" or experiences for something over the rainbow, when really we have the ability to go home to our truth with us at all times. this is why we are always equal and everything is always balanced even though our human awareness tells us otherwise. When we step out of that balance and take an unbalanced position, we create these experiences which eventually lead us to growth and to truth. At this time, many people are unconscious to the truths right before our eyes. We don't see the simple truth. We're caught up in theory, and with giving our power away to the past and future, which are illusions, and we don't realize the beautiful intelligence of evolution teaching us at all times. In our "theories" we believe things are random, etc. and thereby we think illness, lack, separation, etc. is random and meaningless, when it's really a very intelligent teacher.

soulsinging

MahoganySouls wrote:

This is an odd concept since Angelica feels there are no "flaws" in people. Therefore how can anyone be stunted or closed minded when everyone is perfect in their own way?

good luck explaining it. she has posted statistics about how 95% of people are dysfunctional on multiple occasions. now she is saying everyone is perfect the way they are. its like... what's that eastern term? the koan? koad? might be a hindu concept... supposed to be a mind bender with an impossible answer. like "if a tree falls in the forest and nobody hears it..."

we are all perfectly dysfunctional?

soulsinging

angelica wrote:

The methods I've used were all typical treatments for overcoming things. And also, as an intuitive person who set her filters to find empowerment and overcoming, I gravitated towards it. So I've done eating disorder treatment. I've used nicotine gum, and a smoking support group. What I had to do, in essence, was reverse my maladaptive methods and align with healthy ones. I developed a regular fitness health routine years ago. I've given up coffee, TV, drinking, excessive sugar use, etc. I eat much more pristinely than is "normal". The key was that in order to give up these issues, I've had to resolve all the inner stuff that arose in dealing with each step.

ever thought about adding internet to that list? i know there are times i worry that i've switched some of my addictions to the net.

angelica

soulsinging wrote:

ever thought about adding internet to that list? i know there are times i worry that i've switched some of my addictions to the net.

I vocally express my dealings with intellectual attachment through the internet with my friends/family (attachment to my thoughts/ego, which is something I've been in the process of shifting for a long while now). Just so you know, as an extravert, I often learn by thinking aloud and discussing my views/theories. So, many on this board view me in the midst of doing so. As I'm talking about moving beyond thought and just BEing, that reflects what I'm working with. I'm well aware of trading down in addictions/attachments. I've mostly removed my one-time addictive personality by facing my codependent issues.

I've accepted the perfection of my journey all along, from being in the midst of numerous disorders, and to now, where my system is quite pristine. There are always life issues to navigate and manage and I'm perfectly okay with that.

edit: even just yesterday I told Ahnimus I'm struggling with the issue of my thoughts, in a pm.

angelica

soulsinging wrote:

good luck explaining it. she has posted statistics about how 95% of people are dysfunctional on multiple occasions. now she is saying everyone is perfect the way they are. its like... what's that eastern term? the koan? koad? might be a hindu concept... supposed to be a mind bender with an impossible answer. like "if a tree falls in the forest and nobody hears it..."

we are all perfectly dysfunctional?

Truthful answers are pretty much impossible using logic and linear processes that must blot out what's on the periphery, leaving only partial truths in order to make sense. Holistic truths cannot be done justice with words and explanations. So in terms of verbal concepts, it comes down to the context. I use logic as a tool within the context and again, it will be a limited representation of the truth I refer to. It is not reality that is flawed, it's the limits of the human mind that cannot make sense of reality and even when the mind can comprehend the absurdity comfortably, it cannot communicate it with linear words without being mysterious or metaphorical, thereby using integrated brain processes. Using logic as a tool dependent upon each context, on a holistic level I will therefore represent the absurdity, or the mysterious and paradoxical nature of reality. Some might view this as me being hypocritical. Which is fine with me. I understand that western society is very identified with logic and linear thought, at the expense of whole-brained thought. To each their own.

Ahnimus

Angelica,

Within the dynamics of the brain; Where does this "out of synch with nature" come in?

How can you be "out of synch"?

Does it have to do with the dopaminergic pathways to the nucleus accumbens? The transporting of ntr vesicles through the axon hillock to the presynaptic membrane? Or is it when glutamate binds with the NDMA channel to initiate ion flow?

Explain how this nature becomes "out of synch"? Usually, if something goes wrong here, we call it a neurological disorder and direct them to a mental health professional, like a psychiatrist. How can one get their Na+ and K+ ions back to a normal -60mV?

angelica

Ahnimus wrote:

Angelica,

Within the dynamics of the brain; Where does this "out of synch with nature" come in?

How can you be "out of synch"?

Does it have to do with the dopaminergic pathways to the nucleus accumbens? The transporting of ntr vesicles through the axon hillock to the presynaptic membrane? Or is it when glutamate binds with the NDMA channel to initiate ion flow?

Explain how this nature becomes "out of synch"? Usually, if something goes wrong here, we call it a neurological disorder and direct them to a mental health professional, like a psychiatrist. How can one get their Na+ and K+ ions back to a normal -60mV?

Are you quoting me with the "out of synch with nature"? I can't find where I said that.

Ahnimus

angelica wrote:

Are you quoting me with the "out of synch with nature"? I can't find where I said that.

Yea, post 247

Angelica wrote:

People are in varying stages of awareness. Any type of illumination comes through natural laws, and works through others, through both "good" "bad" or neutral deeds. So we're all channels of our Source energy even though many/most are completely unaware of this.

Personally, I see and accept that every individual is molded by natural law and manifest into a perfect path for perfect reasons. If I go out of synch with nature and the potential I stem from, and if I see things contrary to that perfection, the flaw is in my human perception, not in the perfection of reality/life or natural law.

angelica

Ahnimus wrote:

Angelica,

Within the dynamics of the brain; Where does this "out of synch with nature" come in?

How can you be "out of synch"?

Does it have to do with the dopaminergic pathways to the nucleus accumbens? The transporting of ntr vesicles through the axon hillock to the presynaptic membrane? Or is it when glutamate binds with the NDMA channel to initiate ion flow?

Explain how this nature becomes "out of synch"? Usually, if something goes wrong here, we call it a neurological disorder and direct them to a mental health professional, like a psychiatrist. How can one get their Na+ and K+ ions back to a normal -60mV?

We are always 100% immersed in nature. What I refer to in this case of "out of synch", is in terms of natural law, wherein I am out of synch with what works for me. This usually happens, from my understanding, when we are ingrained with patterns, through "nurture" and what we've been taught, but these patterns create conflict with who we are in our entirety. These are our inner conflicts with reality. In this case, I'm defining reality as what exists external to me, and who I am in my entirety.

In terms of the psychology, by our egos and our "scripts" we identify with certain aspects of ourselves and reality, and we disidentify and block/deny other aspects. These blocked parts are also us but are hived off and operate unconsciously beyond our awareness. These are the issues of the Jungian shadow. The shadow undermines us and reveals our true conflicts. Again, this felt sense of out-of-synchness is still within natural law, but the individual experiences pain and/or suffering for going discordant to "what is".

We can give a person drugs to mask these problems of existence, and for me that should be undertaken with understanding that it's a temporary fix in order to help with problem solving functioning, because masking the issues does not in fact resolve the underlying problems and conflicts.

Ahnimus

angelica wrote:

We are always 100% immersed in nature. What I refer to in this case of "out of synch", is in terms of natural law, wherein I am out of synch with what works for me. This usually happens, from my understanding, when we are ingrained with patterns, through "nurture" and what we've been taught, but these patterns create conflict with who we are in our entirety. These are our inner conflicts with reality. In this case, I'm defining reality as what exists external to me, and who I am in my entirety.

In terms of the psychology, by our egos and our "scripts" we identify with certain aspects of ourselves and reality, and we disidentify and block/deny other aspects. These blocked parts are also us but are hived off and operate unconsciously beyond our awareness. These are the issues of the Jungian shadow. The shadow undermines us and reveals our true conflicts. Again, this felt sense of out-of-synchness is still within natural law, but the individual experiences pain and/or suffering for going discordant to "what is".

We can give a person drugs to mask these problems of existence, and for me that should be undertaken with understanding that it's a temporary fix in order to help with problem solving functioning, because masking the issues does not in fact resolve the underlying problems and conflicts.

What if the problem is that your autoimmune system is attacking your mylenated axons? As is the case with MS. Or attacking the nerve cells, as in ALS?

angelica

Ahnimus wrote:

What if the problem is that your autoimmune system is attacking your mylenated axons? As is the case with MS. Or attacking the nerve cells, as in ALS?

Ahnimus, we're all somewhat in synch with one another around here, and dispite our diversity, we can hear each other--we've debated so much, we have a common communication structure. The communication is connecting between us all that we're at this point now, which is the gist of this issue:

Imagine I am feeling broken and need help because of the OCD that has developed because of my lack of healthy adaptation to life. Imagine you medicate away my symptoms of OCD, which are the evolutionary alarm bell necessary to get my attention--they are the consequences of choices that are not working for me. I take medication and the OCD symptoms are muted, but I remain stuck in my evolutionary imbalanced place in life, remaining unconscious of the reasons I'm STILL suffering, and remaining unconscious to the life challenges I'm facing. The imbalanced patterns, and the non-acknowledged evolutionary patterns which operate in all avenues of my life will continue even if the OCD symptoms are gone. I will continue to suffer. If this is all given to me in the context that I'm ill and always will be, I will accept it. I will accept that I'm flawed, and predisposed to a life of suffering. I will accept that I'm unfortunate, and that I have bad luck. And that I can't make relationships work. It's all because I'm flawed. I know I would accept this, as a matter of fact, because I DID accept this for many years.

On the other hand, if you medicate away my symptoms, and tell me that I'm experiencing some life problems, and I need some tools to help me in all levels of my life, such as meds on one hand, some counselling on another, and some understanding of my social interactions so I can solve my problems while using meds, you are showing me the avenues to meet the evolutionary challenges. In this context, it is understood that the goal is to solve the psychological, subjective life problems as well as the sociological problems causing the symptoms.

This is why it's important to synthesize--we must integrate the neurochemical, the psychological, and the sociological issues. If we just look at it neurochemically we can solve the disorder at the expense of the patient's ability to recover. We miss the whole point and the evolutionary aspect where the person does not have the skills/abilities to meet their life challenges.

This is what is happening in the western world that is causing such huge imbalance. We are mass numbing our symptoms--and not just psychiatrically. And we are remaining out of balance, having not learned to solve our problems. And it's coming to a climax on the world stage. And individually. It's part of our evolution. We'll either learn to solve our problems, or we'll begin to fall out of the system. "Crazy" is stigmatized and demonized, and yet it's part of nature's perfection and evolution for a reason. "Crazy" is FAR different than the stigma most people assume is the reality. The misperception of "crazy" by the masses is about the lack of awareness in humankind at this point.

angelica

angelica wrote:

If we just look at it neurochemically we can solve the disorder at the expense of the patient's ability to recover. We miss the whole point and the evolutionary aspect where the person does not have the skills/abilities to meet their life challenges.

So here in a nutshell is the dark underbelly of psychiatry in this day and age. Psychiatry's success, and the awards and commendations for the doctors and other professionals is at the expense of the healing and life adaptation for the patient. The patient is blamed or given more meds if they do not adapt well to their "lot in life". When the patient naturally rebels from this system wherein they feel victimized, they are blamed. It's not a wonder that a high degree of suicide happens with psychiatric patients. It's that things are hopeless to them. Their valid life issues have been "depressed".

On the other hand, when we put the power in the patients hands, treating them as equals who need a tool of medication, and who can be trusted to make their own decisions, even when we disagree with them, we create the environment that allows them to feel human through their struggles. We create the environment that allows them to flourish.