Oh really? Biology is secondary to the whole person. So Psychology and Sociology are the only aspects of a person's whole? Interesting to know, I'm assuming this insight came from your supreme intelligence. I'm still waiting for my diagnosis, by the way. Also, let me know how to shed this body, I'm kind of bored of it, I'm looking for something a bit more muscular. It's a wonder their isn't a huge human body market for those of us unsatisfied with our current husks.
In this view, the psyche and the social aspects are where the mental health issues arise from--from life interactions finely synchronized within AND without.
So for example, when I was "mentally ill", I healed by working on my own psyche, and on my social-evironmental issues. Just as the biology is affected by the psyche and the social interactions that cause an issue, the biology is also affected when one changes the psychic and social interactions. In my case, and in the case of others who recover, the biology responds to such change and for all intents and purposes is therefore secondary.
As well, the material act of making, say, a table, only comes about also, when the psyche conceives of making it.
I realize you have a different model--being a material one. It works for you. More power to you. However it's not my model, and when I took the biological/material view, I was devastated and lived the despair of chronic illness.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
In this view, the psyche and the social aspects are where the mental health issues arise from--from life interactions finely synchronized within AND without.
So for example, when I was "mentally ill", I healed by working on my own psyche, and on my social-evironmental issues. Just as the biology is affected by the psyche and the social interactions that cause an issue, the biology is also affected when one changes the psychic and social interactions. In my case, and in the case of others who recover, the biology responds to such change and for all intents and purposes is therefore secondary.
As well, the material act of making, say, a table, only comes about also, when the psyche conceives of making it.
I realize you have a different model--being a material one. It works for you. More power to you. However it's not my model, and when I took the biological/material view, I was devastated and lived the despair of chronic illness.
Yea, the biological view of human beings doesn't empower you to jump over skyscrapers. That's something you get if your born on Krypton.
The Psychobiosocial view is reciprocal. Psychological and social events influence each other, likewise they have reciprocal connections to the biology, in this case the brain. So ALS is not a necessarily caused by psychosocial issues, but perhaps its caused by a biological issue. This is the most respectable approach, in my opinion. You suggest that all biological issues are the result of poor psychosocial balance. Then why aren't you in the olympics, and our friend Jeanie is to blame for her MS, right? I'm sorry, I thin it takes a special kind of ignorance to neglect biology as you do.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
Yea, the biological view of human beings doesn't empower you to jump over skyscrapers. That's something you get if your born on Krypton.
The Psychobiosocial view is reciprocal. Psychological and social events influence each other, likewise they have reciprocal connections to the biology, in this case the brain. So ALS is not a necessarily caused by psychosocial issues, but perhaps its caused by a biological issue. This is the most respectable approach, in my opinion. You suggest that all biological issues are the result of poor psychosocial balance. Then why aren't you in the olympics, and our friend Jeanie is to blame for her MS, right? I'm sorry, I thin it takes a special kind of ignorance to neglect biology as you do.
I completely agree the biology and psyche go both ways. If I can empower myself by using my psyche to influence my biology I will. I don't have a vested interest to, when it goes both ways, say I am a victim of my biology.
As for blame, blame is what people do when they don't know how to solve problems. Blaming is the opposite of being empowered. So if you want to make blame an issue, you are free to do so. I choose not to.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
I completely agree the biology and psyche go both ways. If I can empower myself by using my psyche to influence my biology I will. I don't have a vested interest to, when it goes both ways, say I am a victim of my biology.
As for blame, blame is what people do when they don't know how to solve problems. Blaming is the opposite of being empowered. So if you want to make blame an issue, you are free to do so. I choose not to.
so If you came down with a terminal illness your psyche can just wish it away and *poof* it's gone? I suppose that anyone can just wish away any illness and it'll disappear according to you?
so If you came down with a terminal illness your psyche can just wish it away and *poof* it's gone? I suppose that anyone can just wish away any illness and it'll disappear according to you?
This is your straw man argument. I'm not responsible for fake arguments you attribute to me.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
so If you came down with a terminal illness your psyche can just wish it away and *poof* it's gone? I suppose that anyone can just wish away any illness and it'll disappear according to you?
That's the census I'm getting as well. I think Angelica should clarify.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
That's the census I'm getting as well. I think Angelica should clarify.
I can't clarify arguments I haven't made. I accept full responsibility for what I say and what I mean. Others must accept responsibility for what they hear.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
I can't clarify arguments I haven't made. I accept full responsibility for what I say and what I mean. Others must accept responsibility for what they hear.
Come on? All this talk of reciprocity and you won't share the responsibility for our interpretation of your statements, even when we've expressed a lack of understanding and requested clarification?
I can only accept then, that you cannot explain in any further detail. Probably because your ideology is in conflict with reason. You wouldn't say that Laura is a victim of her mind, she is a victim of her biology. Her biology is affecting her mind. As you've stated yourself, biology and psychology have reciprocal connections. Therefor it should be psychobiosocial instead of psychosocial. And therefor you cannot pick and choose what parts of biology you want.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
That's the census I'm getting as well. I think Angelica should clarify.
it's the same census that everyone gets. yet she'll just claim that she doesn't make these claims that she's been claiming for all the time that she's been making these same claims over and over ad naseum. how does one clarify your delusions, Angelica?
Come on? All this talk of reciprocity and you won't share the responsibility for our interpretation of your statements, even when we've expressed a lack of understanding and requested clarification?
I can only accept then, that you cannot explain in any further detail. Probably because your ideology is in conflict with reason. You wouldn't say that Laura is a victim of her mind, she is a victim of her biology. Her biology is affecting her mind. As you've stated yourself, biology and psychology have reciprocal connections. Therefor it should be psychobiosocial instead of psychosocial. And therefor you cannot pick and choose what parts of biology you want.
I am clearly referring to mental health issues--psycho-social issues--throughout this thread. If you want to misconstrue that to a different subject, please take it to another thread.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
And this is a question for Psychology and Biology. To what degree to neural correlates affect their psychological correlates and vice-versa?
For example, seratonin correlates with moods, but do the moods affect the seratonin or does the seratonin affect the moods?
This remains an open question in science.
You claim to have an answer Angelica.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
'In 1999 the U.S. Surgeon General issued a report on mental health that, for the first time on a national scale, recognized the importance of recovery in adult mental health. It stated “the concept of recovery is having substantial impact on consumers and families, mental health research, and service delivery”.
In 2003, the final report of the President’s New Freedom Commission on Mental Health (NFC), Achieving the Promise: Transforming Mental Health Care in America, called for recovery to be the “common, recognized outcome of mental health services”. The report stated unambiguously, “The goal of mental health services is recovery”.'
["Voices of Transformation: Developing Recovery-Based Statewide Consumer/Survivor Organizations"]
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
'In 1999 the U.S. Surgeon General issued a report on mental health that, for the first time on a national scale, recognized the importance of recovery in adult mental health. It stated “the concept of recovery is having substantial impact on consumers and families, mental health research, and service delivery”.
In 2003, the final report of the President’s New Freedom Commission on Mental Health (NFC), Achieving the Promise: Transforming Mental Health Care in America, called for recovery to be the “common, recognized outcome of mental health services”. The report stated unambiguously, “The goal of mental health services is recovery”.'
["Voices of Transformation: Developing Recovery-Based Statewide Consumer/Survivor Organizations"]
Huh? What does this pertain to? It seems like it's taken totally out of context. What is "recovery" defined as in this context?
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
Go to the article "Voices of Transformation..." Page 9.
The Recovery model is widely embraced, for example, the Canadian Mental Health Association is Recovery based. Here is a snippet about the model as per wikipedia:
"The Recovery Model is an approach to mental disorder or substance dependence that emphasizes and supports an individual's potential for recovery. Recovery can be seen within the model as a personal journey requiring hope, a secure base, supportive relationships, empowerment, social inclusion, coping skills, and finding meaning."
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
so If you came down with a terminal illness your psyche can just wish it away and *poof* it's gone? I suppose that anyone can just wish away any illness and it'll disappear according to you?
By the way, the method of translating thought to material works kinda like it does in building a table, as I referred to earlier.
When we can think of a table and *poof* cause it to exist, is about when we'll be able to think of mental and physical health and have it *poof* appear.
The truth is that in terms of mental health (and according to what I hear for those who have transformed physical illness to physical health), while it STARTS with a thought, the practical and very real applications and work in building the outcome of health must be done. Again, it's like building a table that begins with the thought to build the table, and is then followed by the practicalities necessary to bring that table into being.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
Go to the article "Voices of Transformation..." Page 9.
The Recovery model is widely embraced, for example, the Canadian Mental Health Association is Recovery based. Here is a snippet about the model as per wikipedia:
"The Recovery Model is an approach to mental disorder or substance dependence that emphasizes and supports an individual's potential for recovery. Recovery can be seen within the model as a personal journey requiring hope, a secure base, supportive relationships, empowerment, social inclusion, coping skills, and finding meaning."
Nonetheless, a philosophy of recovery provides a beacon of hope where, too often, people are told that mental illness means certain decline into unemployment, poverty, and disability. The promise of recovery is that it will lead to fuller lives for people with mental illness. However, recovery is not to be confused with cure. People who have recovered may still experience symptoms and struggle with the consequences of their diagnosis. For those who have experienced this journey first hand, recovery is defined as living consciously and fully despite life’s burdens.
We conclude with a few cautionary notes. Recovery must not engender a Pollyanna-like disregard for the suffering of people with mental illness.
The Pollyanna principle or Pollyannaism describes the tendency for people to agree with positive statements describing them. It is sometimes called positivity bias. The phenomenon is similar to the Forer effect.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
Oh, by the way, it's the Ontario Mental Health that uses the recovery model, which they mention there is no model for. It doesn't mention any other provinces using the recovery method.
All the recovery method is, is a system of developing a positive self-image. That's all it is, and for that I see it's merits and agree with it. It is not an alternative to prescription drugs, it's all part of the system.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
Oh, by the way, it's the Ontario Mental Health that uses the recovery model, which they mention there is no model for. It doesn't mention any other provinces using the recovery method.
All the recovery method is, is a system of developing a positive self-image. That's all it is, and for that I see it's merits and agree with it. It is not an alternative to prescription drugs, it's all part of the system.
There are different views of recovery depending on what the person defines as recovery for themselves. I'm involved with a group of people who do public speaking for educational purposes, regarding their recovery from mental health issues. Each person has a different idea of what recovery is for them because it is a subjective experience.
While the recovery model may include the use of medications, it is individually based on subjective human experience.
THE KEY IS THAT FOCUSING ON RECOVERY IS DIAMETRICALLY OPPOSED TO FOCUSING ON BEING "ILL". If we focus on how ill we are, that becomes our experience. If we focus on our recovery and our potential, recovery and potential is our experience. All recovery models are human based, not brain based.
This is on the CMHA home page: "The Canadian Mental Health Association is a nation-wide, charitable organization that promotes the Mental Health of all and supports the resilience and recovery of people experiencing mental illness."
Again, Ahnimus, I have not once downgraded the value of medications for myself or others. I've never once suggested anything as an alternative to medications. I've said clearly in this thread that I took medications ALL the time when I had a need for them, and that I would take them tomorrow if I manifested symptoms that called for them. I am for the use of medications in terms of empowering the person who takes them, as they prove effective for them.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
Here, for example, is the Alberta CMHA home page wherein they use the same quote as cited on the CMHA general page, only adding the "Alberta" part in the recovery focus:
"The Alberta Northwest Region of The Canadian Mental Health Association is part of a nation-wide, charitable organization that promotes the Mental Health of all and supports the resilience and recovery of people experiencing mental illness."
The CMHA focuses on mental health, not illness, even when talking in terms of the debilitating mental health symptoms people experience.
It's interesting that so many mental health agencies focus on recovery. And that the principles they come up with are all similarly empowering. For example, the Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Adminstration cites these as essential to recovery:
self-direction; individualized and person-centered; empowerment; holistic; non-linear; strengths-based; peer support; respect; responsibility; and hope
So, are you trying to change the topic Angelica? We aren't talking about psychiatry's dark and gloomy past anymore and the super conspiracy of psychiatrists that want to dumb us all down and profit from negatively labeling us as disordered?
Now we are talking about the recovery method? Which seems like a very good method, it's exactly what is supported in all the literature I've read on human cognition. No practitioner is encouraged to discuss philosophical issues with a patient. That is strictly for the realm of family and friends. Like I said, the reciprocity between psychological and biological states is not well understood. We know that physically upregulating certain chemicals we can affect mood and affect behavior, but we don't know how much influence the brain has on its self. We do know that social events and psychological events affect change on the brain. I didn't think that was ever a matter of debate. The debate was, the dark and gloomy, secret nature of psychiatry.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
"In insanity we do not discover anything new and unknown; we
are looking at the foundations of our own being, the matrix of
those vital problems on which we are all engaged."
~Jung
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
"In insanity we do not discover anything new and unknown; we
are looking at the foundations of our own being, the matrix of
those vital problems on which we are all engaged."
~Jung
I disagree with his entire ideology.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
So, are you trying to change the topic Angelica? We aren't talking about psychiatry's dark and gloomy past anymore and the super conspiracy of psychiatrists that want to dumb us all down and profit from negatively labeling us as disordered?
While there are many mental health agencies with a progressive humanitarian focus that encourages healing, there remains a ludicrous amount of horrors being done in the name of mental health. Including widespread and grave ignorance.
If you go back and look, I was pushing recovery towards the beginning of the thread, quoting the CMHA and saying I stand behind them in a lengthy post.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
While there are many mental health agencies with a progressive humanitarian focus that encourages healing, there remains a ludicrous amount of horrors being done in the name of mental health. Including widespread and grave ignorance.
If you go back and look, I was pushing recovery towards the beginning of the thread, quoting the CMHA and saying I stand behind them in a lengthy post.
That's my problem. Too many lengthy posts with language I find to be largely incomprehensible. It's not your fault though, you speak a completely different language, it doesn't compute well with my mainframe. It might help if you define key terms.
I don't understand who these organizations are. If CMHA is a federal organization and they are in favor of this recovery thingy, then who isn't following suit? And is it alright if they have a difference of opinion?
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
That's my problem. Too many lengthy posts with language I find to be largely incomprehensible. It's not your fault though, you speak a completely different language, it doesn't compute well with my mainframe. It might help if you define key terms.
I don't understand who these organizations are. If CMHA is a federal organization and they are in favor of this recovery thingy, then who isn't following suit? And is it alright if they have a difference of opinion?
I'll try to simplify a very, very complex subject.
I'm involved with two progressive mental health agencies that are based on recovery and empowerment. They both embrace the use of psychiatry as a tool of empowerment and recovery. As I've done through my own recovery, long before involvement with these agencies.
The problem is with psychiatry as an authority, without the recovery focus. That is what psychiatry generally is. The focus is about illness, where humans are looked down upon as lacking. The human value and meaning of the individual's experiences becomes the victim of science reductionism. When a human and their experiences are reduced to mere chemicals, and when one is vulnerable and impressionable at a such a low point, one is at the mercy of the doctor who creates a devastating experience using the illness/disempowerment model. This is not a thing of the past, it is current.
In its place as a tool, and using actual science and when not misconstruing speculation as fact, psychiatry is very valuable.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
I'll try to simplify a very, very complex subject.
I'm involved with two progressive mental health agencies that are based on recovery and empowerment. They both embrace the use of psychiatry as a tool of empowerment and recovery. As I've done through my own recovery, long before involvement with these agencies.
The problem is with psychiatry as an authority, without the recovery focus. That is what psychiatry generally is. The focus is about illness, where humans are looked down upon as lacking. The human value and meaning of the individual's experiences becomes the victim of science reductionism. When a human and their experiences are reduced to mere chemicals, and when one is vulnerable and impressionable at a such a low point, one is at the mercy of the doctor who creates a devastating experience using the illness/disempowerment model. This is not a thing of the past, it is current.
In its place as a tool, and using actual science and when not misconstruing speculation as fact, psychiatry is very valuable.
I see what you are saying. However, I've been a victim of that very same system. It lead me down a horrible path. I wouldn't suspect anyone of doing it intentionally though. I think it's just an out-dated system. Many of these practitioners are probably ignorant about "recovery". By the way, I really dislike "recovery", it's totally misleading. Its implications are too varied. Something like self-image redevelopment might be more appropriate. It's not replacing pharmacology, it's adding to the current model and perhaps steering pharmacology in a more appropriate direction, where less drugs will be needed. The old system was a downward spiral, and I hope it eventually goes away. But I don't blame anyone and I measure people subjectively per case. If I don't like the way someone practices, I don't go to them. I don't know. It seemed like your thread was very negative towards psychiatry and it sounded kind of hypocritical to be doing to someone what you are blaming them for doing. That was the impression I got.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
And is it alright if they have a difference of opinion?
And yes, in my opinion, it's alright if they all have differences to bring to the table. The diversity is probably necessary and natural. And when we support and empower one another, the individual--anyone of us on that continuum--can pick and choose what works for them and keep it all in perspective.
For example, the average person who is predisposed to understand the science aspects of brain chemistry will likely not be as disposed to see the humanitarian issues, and vice versa. Each perspective is part of the wholeness view. And again, if the individual is empowered in their choices and recovery focused, they will be able to progress, using the strengths from different programs to meet their individual needs.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
I see what you are saying. However, I've been a victim of that very same system. It lead me down a horrible path. I wouldn't suspect anyone of doing it intentionally though. I think it's just an out-dated system. Many of these practitioners are probably ignorant about "recovery". By the way, I really dislike "recovery", it's totally misleading. Its implications are too varied. Something like self-image redevelopment might be more appropriate. It's not replacing pharmacology, it's adding to the current model and perhaps steering pharmacology in a more appropriate direction, where less drugs will be needed. The old system was a downward spiral, and I hope it eventually goes away. But I don't blame anyone and I measure people subjectively per case. If I don't like the way someone practices, I don't go to them. I don't know. It seemed like your thread was very negative towards psychiatry and it sounded kind of hypocritical to be doing to someone what you are blaming them for doing. That was the impression I got.
I take full responsibility for highlighting the negative issues about psychiatry. I'm not fond of criticism models myself. However, on this subject I went with it for my own self-learning, and because people are really invested in the illness models. It begs challenging.
Again, I definitely don't blame anyone. We're all doing the best we can, and when we learn to do it otherwise, we do.... (badly misquoted Maya Angelou...or someone like that...)
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
Comments
So for example, when I was "mentally ill", I healed by working on my own psyche, and on my social-evironmental issues. Just as the biology is affected by the psyche and the social interactions that cause an issue, the biology is also affected when one changes the psychic and social interactions. In my case, and in the case of others who recover, the biology responds to such change and for all intents and purposes is therefore secondary.
As well, the material act of making, say, a table, only comes about also, when the psyche conceives of making it.
I realize you have a different model--being a material one. It works for you. More power to you. However it's not my model, and when I took the biological/material view, I was devastated and lived the despair of chronic illness.
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
Yea, the biological view of human beings doesn't empower you to jump over skyscrapers. That's something you get if your born on Krypton.
The Psychobiosocial view is reciprocal. Psychological and social events influence each other, likewise they have reciprocal connections to the biology, in this case the brain. So ALS is not a necessarily caused by psychosocial issues, but perhaps its caused by a biological issue. This is the most respectable approach, in my opinion. You suggest that all biological issues are the result of poor psychosocial balance. Then why aren't you in the olympics, and our friend Jeanie is to blame for her MS, right? I'm sorry, I thin it takes a special kind of ignorance to neglect biology as you do.
As for blame, blame is what people do when they don't know how to solve problems. Blaming is the opposite of being empowered. So if you want to make blame an issue, you are free to do so. I choose not to.
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
so If you came down with a terminal illness your psyche can just wish it away and *poof* it's gone? I suppose that anyone can just wish away any illness and it'll disappear according to you?
angels share laughter
*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
That's the census I'm getting as well. I think Angelica should clarify.
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
Come on? All this talk of reciprocity and you won't share the responsibility for our interpretation of your statements, even when we've expressed a lack of understanding and requested clarification?
I can only accept then, that you cannot explain in any further detail. Probably because your ideology is in conflict with reason. You wouldn't say that Laura is a victim of her mind, she is a victim of her biology. Her biology is affecting her mind. As you've stated yourself, biology and psychology have reciprocal connections. Therefor it should be psychobiosocial instead of psychosocial. And therefor you cannot pick and choose what parts of biology you want.
it's the same census that everyone gets. yet she'll just claim that she doesn't make these claims that she's been claiming for all the time that she's been making these same claims over and over ad naseum. how does one clarify your delusions, Angelica?
angels share laughter
*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
For example, seratonin correlates with moods, but do the moods affect the seratonin or does the seratonin affect the moods?
This remains an open question in science.
You claim to have an answer Angelica.
In 2003, the final report of the President’s New Freedom Commission on Mental Health (NFC), Achieving the Promise: Transforming Mental Health Care in America, called for recovery to be the “common, recognized outcome of mental health services”. The report stated unambiguously, “The goal of mental health services is recovery”.'
["Voices of Transformation: Developing Recovery-Based Statewide Consumer/Survivor Organizations"]
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
Huh? What does this pertain to? It seems like it's taken totally out of context. What is "recovery" defined as in this context?
http://www.power2u.org/articles.html
Go to the article "Voices of Transformation..." Page 9.
The Recovery model is widely embraced, for example, the Canadian Mental Health Association is Recovery based. Here is a snippet about the model as per wikipedia:
"The Recovery Model is an approach to mental disorder or substance dependence that emphasizes and supports an individual's potential for recovery. Recovery can be seen within the model as a personal journey requiring hope, a secure base, supportive relationships, empowerment, social inclusion, coping skills, and finding meaning."
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
When we can think of a table and *poof* cause it to exist, is about when we'll be able to think of mental and physical health and have it *poof* appear.
The truth is that in terms of mental health (and according to what I hear for those who have transformed physical illness to physical health), while it STARTS with a thought, the practical and very real applications and work in building the outcome of health must be done. Again, it's like building a table that begins with the thought to build the table, and is then followed by the practicalities necessary to bring that table into being.
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
Interesting. I prefer the horses mouth myself.
http://www.ontario.cmha.ca/policy_positions.asp?cID=3739
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pollyanna_principle
All the recovery method is, is a system of developing a positive self-image. That's all it is, and for that I see it's merits and agree with it. It is not an alternative to prescription drugs, it's all part of the system.
There are different views of recovery depending on what the person defines as recovery for themselves. I'm involved with a group of people who do public speaking for educational purposes, regarding their recovery from mental health issues. Each person has a different idea of what recovery is for them because it is a subjective experience.
While the recovery model may include the use of medications, it is individually based on subjective human experience.
THE KEY IS THAT FOCUSING ON RECOVERY IS DIAMETRICALLY OPPOSED TO FOCUSING ON BEING "ILL". If we focus on how ill we are, that becomes our experience. If we focus on our recovery and our potential, recovery and potential is our experience. All recovery models are human based, not brain based.
There's much info on recovery re: CMHA
http://www.cmha.ca/bins/content_page.asp?cid=284-683-1480-1497-1511-1471&lang=1
This is on the CMHA home page: "The Canadian Mental Health Association is a nation-wide, charitable organization that promotes the Mental Health of all and supports the resilience and recovery of people experiencing mental illness."
Again, Ahnimus, I have not once downgraded the value of medications for myself or others. I've never once suggested anything as an alternative to medications. I've said clearly in this thread that I took medications ALL the time when I had a need for them, and that I would take them tomorrow if I manifested symptoms that called for them. I am for the use of medications in terms of empowering the person who takes them, as they prove effective for them.
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"The Alberta Northwest Region of The Canadian Mental Health Association is part of a nation-wide, charitable organization that promotes the Mental Health of all and supports the resilience and recovery of people experiencing mental illness."
The CMHA focuses on mental health, not illness, even when talking in terms of the debilitating mental health symptoms people experience.
http://www.cmha.ca/bins/site2.asp?cid=284-713&lang=1
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
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self-direction; individualized and person-centered; empowerment; holistic; non-linear; strengths-based; peer support; respect; responsibility; and hope
http://www.cmha.ca/data/1/rec_docs/754_samhsa_consensus_statement.pdf
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
Now we are talking about the recovery method? Which seems like a very good method, it's exactly what is supported in all the literature I've read on human cognition. No practitioner is encouraged to discuss philosophical issues with a patient. That is strictly for the realm of family and friends. Like I said, the reciprocity between psychological and biological states is not well understood. We know that physically upregulating certain chemicals we can affect mood and affect behavior, but we don't know how much influence the brain has on its self. We do know that social events and psychological events affect change on the brain. I didn't think that was ever a matter of debate. The debate was, the dark and gloomy, secret nature of psychiatry.
are looking at the foundations of our own being, the matrix of
those vital problems on which we are all engaged."
~Jung
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I disagree with his entire ideology.
If you go back and look, I was pushing recovery towards the beginning of the thread, quoting the CMHA and saying I stand behind them in a lengthy post.
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
That's my problem. Too many lengthy posts with language I find to be largely incomprehensible. It's not your fault though, you speak a completely different language, it doesn't compute well with my mainframe. It might help if you define key terms.
I don't understand who these organizations are. If CMHA is a federal organization and they are in favor of this recovery thingy, then who isn't following suit? And is it alright if they have a difference of opinion?
I'm involved with two progressive mental health agencies that are based on recovery and empowerment. They both embrace the use of psychiatry as a tool of empowerment and recovery. As I've done through my own recovery, long before involvement with these agencies.
The problem is with psychiatry as an authority, without the recovery focus. That is what psychiatry generally is. The focus is about illness, where humans are looked down upon as lacking. The human value and meaning of the individual's experiences becomes the victim of science reductionism. When a human and their experiences are reduced to mere chemicals, and when one is vulnerable and impressionable at a such a low point, one is at the mercy of the doctor who creates a devastating experience using the illness/disempowerment model. This is not a thing of the past, it is current.
In its place as a tool, and using actual science and when not misconstruing speculation as fact, psychiatry is very valuable.
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http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
I see what you are saying. However, I've been a victim of that very same system. It lead me down a horrible path. I wouldn't suspect anyone of doing it intentionally though. I think it's just an out-dated system. Many of these practitioners are probably ignorant about "recovery". By the way, I really dislike "recovery", it's totally misleading. Its implications are too varied. Something like self-image redevelopment might be more appropriate. It's not replacing pharmacology, it's adding to the current model and perhaps steering pharmacology in a more appropriate direction, where less drugs will be needed. The old system was a downward spiral, and I hope it eventually goes away. But I don't blame anyone and I measure people subjectively per case. If I don't like the way someone practices, I don't go to them. I don't know. It seemed like your thread was very negative towards psychiatry and it sounded kind of hypocritical to be doing to someone what you are blaming them for doing. That was the impression I got.
For example, the average person who is predisposed to understand the science aspects of brain chemistry will likely not be as disposed to see the humanitarian issues, and vice versa. Each perspective is part of the wholeness view. And again, if the individual is empowered in their choices and recovery focused, they will be able to progress, using the strengths from different programs to meet their individual needs.
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
Again, I definitely don't blame anyone. We're all doing the best we can, and when we learn to do it otherwise, we do.... (badly misquoted Maya Angelou...or someone like that...)
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!