Science Without a Soul

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angelica
angelica Posts: 6,038
edited October 2007 in A Moving Train
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr

http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta

Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
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  • angelica
    angelica Posts: 6,038
    "The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr

    http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta

    Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
  • angelica
    angelica Posts: 6,038
    "The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr

    http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta

    Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
  • angelica
    angelica Posts: 6,038
    "The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr

    http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta

    Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
  • Well this certainly hits home as this is my line of work.

    I have to say, while there are plenty of abused diagnoses out there by horrible doctors, there are many many valid ones under the care of amazing doctors.

    You cannot take a person who is delusional, suicidal or a danger to society because of how their mind works and just ignore it. Not everyone responds to "lifestyle change" as a means to treatment. Of course there are those out there who can become well with proper guidance, that is why therapy was invented. However, there are some who simply have a brain dysfunction. The brain being an organ just like any other in the body, can become diseased.

    The entire practice of psychiatry is still rather in its infancy. We are learning through trial and error just as we did with mainstream medicine...and still are for that matter.

    Edited to add...Choosing not to be interrogated by media with a specific agenda does not finger guilt. It shows self control and empowerment to decide not to engage in one sided dialogue.
    "When you're climbing to the top, you'd better know the way back down" MSB
  • angelica
    angelica Posts: 6,038
    Well this certainly hits home as this is my line of work.
    I hear you--mine, too.
    The brain being an organ just like any other in the body, can become diseased.
    How does this "disease" manifest in terms of brain tissue?

    Why do you think are these psychiatrists coming forward and saying that the diseases we all put our faith in, are diagnoses made up by humans and are connected with social control?

    Edited to add...Choosing not to be interrogated by media with a specific agenda does not finger guilt. It shows self control and empowerment to decide not to engage in one sided dialogue.
    It's certainly one-sided when one chooses not to engage.
    "The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr

    http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta

    Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
  • baraka
    baraka Posts: 1,268
    Wow, I only just watched the first link. Scary stuff. It always seemed to me that these days, 'professionals' label what I would deem normal reactions to life as a disease. Yes, if a loved one dies or you lose your job, etc you are going to feel sad and depressed. While I do feel that medications can be used SHORT TERM, I have a problem with the long term use. A lot of these medications should only be used temporarily.
    The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance,
    but the illusion of knowledge.
    ~Daniel Boorstin

    Only a life lived for others is worth living.
    ~Albert Einstein
  • FinsburyParkCarrots
    FinsburyParkCarrots Seattle, WA Posts: 12,223
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self_refuting_ideas

    This post belongs in a few threads, around here, as a primer. ;)
  • angelica
    angelica Posts: 6,038
    baraka wrote:
    Wow, I only just watched the first link. Scary stuff. It always seemed to me that these days, 'professionals' label what I would deem normal reactions to life as a disease. Yes, if a loved one dies or you lose your job, etc you are going to feel sad and depressed. While I do feel that medications can be used SHORT TERM, I have a problem with the long term use. A lot of these medications should only be used temporarily.
    I completely agree. As I mentioned in another thread, after I started this thread today, I talked to a very close friend and found out both her and her teen-aged son have gone on anti-depressants. I completely supported them using whatever tool they feel is beneficial. And due to her use of an anti-depressant, my friend is getting out the the house to a meditation class, the gym, and she found a nice spiritual church that she really likes. These are all great avenues to follow for mental health! She recognizes the value of a temporary tool. She also understands our brain chemistry is dynamic and that eventually she will no longer need this help. It's when people are given messages telling them that they are in essence inherently flawed and need these meds to be stable or normal, it creates very scary power conditions. ...sorta like advertising...wherein they convince us that we are flawed-in-some-way UNLESS we use their soap, or buy their car, etc!

    I was told numerous times I would have to take medication for the rest of my life for my "chemical imbalance". And here I am, with no diagnosable signs of disorder, and without medication, after over ten years of raging "illness".
    "The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr

    http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta

    Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
  • angelica wrote:
    I hear you--mine, too.

    How does this "disease" manifest in terms of brain tissue?

    Why do you think are these psychiatrists coming forward and saying that the diseases we all put our faith in, are diagnoses made up by humans and are connected with social control?
    Again, the understanding of brain function is still so very new in relative terms. We have only recently begun to understand how it works. As far as "tissue" goes, I'm not exactly sure what you are asking. But when one is considering brain function, much more emphasis is put on electrical and chemical stability. Just because "tissue" may not appear damaged, it does not mean the organ is working properly.

    Take for instance the heart. By all accounts a heart with SVT would appear normal however it's function is askew.
    "When you're climbing to the top, you'd better know the way back down" MSB
  • angelica
    angelica Posts: 6,038
    Again, the understanding of brain function is still so very new in relative terms. We have only recently begun to understand how it works. As far as "tissue" goes, I'm not exactly sure what you are asking. But when one is considering brain function, much more emphasis is put on electrical and chemical stability. Just because "tissue" may not appear damaged, it does not mean the organ is working properly.
    Could you define "working properly" in terms of the brain?
    "The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr

    http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta

    Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
  • soulsinging
    soulsinging Posts: 13,202
    angelica wrote:
    Could you define "working properly" in terms of the brain?

    not acting like tom cruise.
  • angelica wrote:
    I completely agree. As I mentioned in another thread, after I started this thread today, I talked to a very close friend and found out both her and her teen-aged son have gone on anti-depressants. I completely supported them using whatever tool they feel is beneficial. And due to her use of an anti-depressant, my friend is getting out the the house to a meditation class, the gym, and she found a nice spiritual church that she really likes. These are all great avenues to follow for mental health! She recognizes the value of a temporary tool. She also understands our brain chemistry is dynamic and that eventually she will no longer need this help. It's when people are given messages telling them that they are in essence inherently flawed and need these meds to be stable or normal, it creates very scary power conditions. ...sorta like advertising...wherein they convince us that we are flawed-in-some-way UNLESS we use their soap, or buy their car, etc!

    I was told numerous times I would have to take medication for the rest of my life for my "chemical imbalance". And here I am, with no diagnosable signs of disorder, and without medication, after over ten years of raging "illness".
    The danger in this thinking is that one positive "recovery", does not mean it should be advocated for all.

    What concerns me most is when comments like "inherently flawed" are used to describe health problems. Would you label a person with downs syndrome, impotence, blindness or any other disease known to man in this way?

    Negative stigma against mental illness is often foisted most fiercely by patients who have not embraced their diagnosis.
    "When you're climbing to the top, you'd better know the way back down" MSB
  • angelica wrote:
    I hear you--mine, too.

    What do you do for a living? How is it related to mental health?
    "When you're climbing to the top, you'd better know the way back down" MSB
  • angelica
    angelica Posts: 6,038
    What do you do for a living? How is it related to mental health?
    Why?
    "The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr

    http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta

    Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
  • FinsburyParkCarrots
    FinsburyParkCarrots Seattle, WA Posts: 12,223

    Negative stigma against mental illness is often foisted most fiercely by patients who have not embraced their diagnosis.

    That sentence is a bit rhetorical, fella.
  • angelica wrote:
    Could you define "working properly" in terms of the brain?
    Like any organ, the brain has a job to perform. In it's case, many jobs as it is the main control center for the rest of the body.

    When this organ ceases to perform as expected, bodily function is altered. Most commonly this is apparent in behavior.

    But then, as a person who has experienced this first hand, you already know this.

    My question is, why such defensiveness? I hear alot of pain in your comments regarding mental health.
    "When you're climbing to the top, you'd better know the way back down" MSB
  • That sentence is a bit rhetorical, fella.
    This makes no sense to this old girl! :)
    "When you're climbing to the top, you'd better know the way back down" MSB
  • angelica wrote:
    Why?
    Just curious, as you mentioned that you worked in the field.
    "When you're climbing to the top, you'd better know the way back down" MSB
  • angelica
    angelica Posts: 6,038
    The danger in this thinking is that one positive "recovery", does not mean it should be advocated for all.
    You see advocating recovery as dangerous? How so?
    What concerns me most is when comments like "inherently flawed" are used to describe health problems. Would you label a person with downs syndrome, impotence, blindness or any other disease known to man in this way?
    This is exactly my point. When one is given messages that they are flawed there is an imbalance of power. This is the essence of stigma, which is rampant in the mental health fields.
    Negative stigma against mental illness is often foisted most fiercely by patients who have not embraced their diagnosis.
    What do you base this observation on?
    "The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr

    http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta

    Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
  • FinsburyParkCarrots
    FinsburyParkCarrots Seattle, WA Posts: 12,223
    Like any organ, the brain has a job to perform. In it's case, many jobs as it is the main control center for the rest of the body.

    A redundant apostrophe. Otherwise known as an Ahnimus.