Science Without a Soul

angelica

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FPUHUpfDVgY

edit: The full version:
http://video.google.ca/videoplay?docid=1772696002128802305&q=psychiatry&total=1256&start=20&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=7

angelica

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=McPnMQ31W_k

angelica

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-P6_FwpVo_s

angelica

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qj7GmeSAxXo

MahoganySouls

Well this certainly hits home as this is my line of work.

I have to say, while there are plenty of abused diagnoses out there by horrible doctors, there are many many valid ones under the care of amazing doctors.

You cannot take a person who is delusional, suicidal or a danger to society because of how their mind works and just ignore it. Not everyone responds to "lifestyle change" as a means to treatment. Of course there are those out there who can become well with proper guidance, that is why therapy was invented. However, there are some who simply have a brain dysfunction. The brain being an organ just like any other in the body, can become diseased.

The entire practice of psychiatry is still rather in its infancy. We are learning through trial and error just as we did with mainstream medicine...and still are for that matter.

Edited to add...Choosing not to be interrogated by media with a specific agenda does not finger guilt. It shows self control and empowerment to decide not to engage in one sided dialogue.

angelica

MahoganySouls wrote:

Well this certainly hits home as this is my line of work.

I hear you--mine, too.

The brain being an organ just like any other in the body, can become diseased.

How does this "disease" manifest in terms of brain tissue?

Why do you think are these psychiatrists coming forward and saying that the diseases we all put our faith in, are diagnoses made up by humans and are connected with social control?

Edited to add...Choosing not to be interrogated by media with a specific agenda does not finger guilt. It shows self control and empowerment to decide not to engage in one sided dialogue.

It's certainly one-sided when one chooses not to engage.

baraka

Wow, I only just watched the first link. Scary stuff. It always seemed to me that these days, 'professionals' label what I would deem normal reactions to life as a disease. Yes, if a loved one dies or you lose your job, etc you are going to feel sad and depressed. While I do feel that medications can be used SHORT TERM, I have a problem with the long term use. A lot of these medications should only be used temporarily.

FinsburyParkCarrots

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self_refuting_ideas

This post belongs in a few threads, around here, as a primer.

angelica

baraka wrote:

Wow, I only just watched the first link. Scary stuff. It always seemed to me that these days, 'professionals' label what I would deem normal reactions to life as a disease. Yes, if a loved one dies or you lose your job, etc you are going to feel sad and depressed. While I do feel that medications can be used SHORT TERM, I have a problem with the long term use. A lot of these medications should only be used temporarily.

I completely agree. As I mentioned in another thread, after I started this thread today, I talked to a very close friend and found out both her and her teen-aged son have gone on anti-depressants. I completely supported them using whatever tool they feel is beneficial. And due to her use of an anti-depressant, my friend is getting out the the house to a meditation class, the gym, and she found a nice spiritual church that she really likes. These are all great avenues to follow for mental health! She recognizes the value of a temporary tool. She also understands our brain chemistry is dynamic and that eventually she will no longer need this help. It's when people are given messages telling them that they are in essence inherently flawed and need these meds to be stable or normal, it creates very scary power conditions. ...sorta like advertising...wherein they convince us that we are flawed-in-some-way UNLESS we use their soap, or buy their car, etc!

I was told numerous times I would have to take medication for the rest of my life for my "chemical imbalance". And here I am, with no diagnosable signs of disorder, and without medication, after over ten years of raging "illness".

MahoganySouls

angelica wrote:

I hear you--mine, too.

How does this "disease" manifest in terms of brain tissue?

Why do you think are these psychiatrists coming forward and saying that the diseases we all put our faith in, are diagnoses made up by humans and are connected with social control?

Again, the understanding of brain function is still so very new in relative terms. We have only recently begun to understand how it works. As far as "tissue" goes, I'm not exactly sure what you are asking. But when one is considering brain function, much more emphasis is put on electrical and chemical stability. Just because "tissue" may not appear damaged, it does not mean the organ is working properly.

Take for instance the heart. By all accounts a heart with SVT would appear normal however it's function is askew.

angelica

MahoganySouls wrote:

Again, the understanding of brain function is still so very new in relative terms. We have only recently begun to understand how it works. As far as "tissue" goes, I'm not exactly sure what you are asking. But when one is considering brain function, much more emphasis is put on electrical and chemical stability. Just because "tissue" may not appear damaged, it does not mean the organ is working properly.

Could you define "working properly" in terms of the brain?

soulsinging

angelica wrote:

Could you define "working properly" in terms of the brain?

not acting like tom cruise.

MahoganySouls

angelica wrote:

I completely agree. As I mentioned in another thread, after I started this thread today, I talked to a very close friend and found out both her and her teen-aged son have gone on anti-depressants. I completely supported them using whatever tool they feel is beneficial. And due to her use of an anti-depressant, my friend is getting out the the house to a meditation class, the gym, and she found a nice spiritual church that she really likes. These are all great avenues to follow for mental health! She recognizes the value of a temporary tool. She also understands our brain chemistry is dynamic and that eventually she will no longer need this help. It's when people are given messages telling them that they are in essence inherently flawed and need these meds to be stable or normal, it creates very scary power conditions. ...sorta like advertising...wherein they convince us that we are flawed-in-some-way UNLESS we use their soap, or buy their car, etc!

I was told numerous times I would have to take medication for the rest of my life for my "chemical imbalance". And here I am, with no diagnosable signs of disorder, and without medication, after over ten years of raging "illness".

The danger in this thinking is that one positive "recovery", does not mean it should be advocated for all.

What concerns me most is when comments like "inherently flawed" are used to describe health problems. Would you label a person with downs syndrome, impotence, blindness or any other disease known to man in this way?

Negative stigma against mental illness is often foisted most fiercely by patients who have not embraced their diagnosis.

MahoganySouls

angelica wrote:

I hear you--mine, too.

What do you do for a living? How is it related to mental health?

angelica

MahoganySouls wrote:

What do you do for a living? How is it related to mental health?

Why?

FinsburyParkCarrots

MahoganySouls wrote:

Negative stigma against mental illness is often foisted most fiercely by patients who have not embraced their diagnosis.

That sentence is a bit rhetorical, fella.

MahoganySouls

angelica wrote:

Could you define "working properly" in terms of the brain?

Like any organ, the brain has a job to perform. In it's case, many jobs as it is the main control center for the rest of the body.

When this organ ceases to perform as expected, bodily function is altered. Most commonly this is apparent in behavior.

But then, as a person who has experienced this first hand, you already know this.

My question is, why such defensiveness? I hear alot of pain in your comments regarding mental health.

MahoganySouls

FinsburyParkCarrots wrote:

That sentence is a bit rhetorical, fella.

This makes no sense to this old girl!

MahoganySouls

angelica wrote:

Why?

Just curious, as you mentioned that you worked in the field.

angelica

MahoganySouls wrote:

The danger in this thinking is that one positive "recovery", does not mean it should be advocated for all.

You see advocating recovery as dangerous? How so?

What concerns me most is when comments like "inherently flawed" are used to describe health problems. Would you label a person with downs syndrome, impotence, blindness or any other disease known to man in this way?

This is exactly my point. When one is given messages that they are flawed there is an imbalance of power. This is the essence of stigma, which is rampant in the mental health fields.

Negative stigma against mental illness is often foisted most fiercely by patients who have not embraced their diagnosis.

What do you base this observation on?

FinsburyParkCarrots

MahoganySouls wrote:

Like any organ, the brain has a job to perform. In it's case, many jobs as it is the main control center for the rest of the body.

A redundant apostrophe. Otherwise known as an Ahnimus.

angelica

MahoganySouls wrote:

Like any organ, the brain has a job to perform. In it's case, many jobs as it is the main control center for the rest of the body.

When this organ ceases to perform as expected, bodily function is altered. Most commonly this is apparent in behavior.

But then, as a person who has experienced this first hand, you already know this.

My question is, why such defensiveness? I hear alot of pain in your comments regarding mental health.

Do we know what the purposes are of the complexity of the brain at any given time? It's only if we understand it's purposes that we can tell if something is not working "properly" in my understanding. I understand that we, or our doctors may think the brain should be operating differently many a time. And I understand we have our parameters of acceptable thought and behaviour at this time, and yet that is arbitrary, based on cultural norms.

FinsburyParkCarrots

angelica wrote:

Do we know what the purposes are of the complexity of the brain at any given time? It's only if we understand it's purposes that we can tell if something is not working "properly" in my understanding. I understand that we, or our doctors may think the brain should be operating differently many a time. And I understand we have our parameters of acceptable thought and behaviour at this time, and yet that is arbitrary, based on cultural norms.

All I know is, you're a good lookin' woman.

FinsburyParkCarrots

MahoganySouls wrote:

This makes no sense to this old girl!

I'm doctorate level. Ignore me, MahoganySouls. I'm teasing the so-called experts.:D

gue_barium

The only expert here has got an 8th grade education.

angelica

FinsburyParkCarrots wrote:

All I know is, you're a good lookin' woman.

yeah, but...you're just teasing.... :rolleyes: :mad:

FinsburyParkCarrots

gue_barium wrote:

The only expert here has got an 8th grade education.

I'm happy to admit I'm a fuckwit, and I'll mock my so-called learning to be your best friend, too.

FinsburyParkCarrots

angelica wrote:

yeah, but...you're just teasing.... :rolleyes: :mad:

I've an Andromeda strain busting to disagree.

gue_barium

gue_barium wrote:

The only expert here has got an 8th grade education.

Q: Why do you think so much of yourself? It's very unattractive.
A: I know. It puts people off here.
Q: So why do you do it?
A: Who says I was talking about myself to begin with?
Q: You just admitted it.
A: Did I? I guess I did. I don't care. I'm just going to have a few beers here and try to make the best of a rainy evening.
Q: Fair enough.
A: I come in peace.

FinsburyParkCarrots

gue_barium wrote:

Q: Why do you think so much of yourself? It's very unattractive.
A: I know. It puts people off here.
Q: So why do you do it?
A: Who says I was talking about myself to begin with?
Q: You just admitted it.
A: Did I? I guess I did. I don't care. I'm just going to have a few beers here and try to make the best of a rainy evening.
Q: Fair enough.
A: I come in peace.

I love to wind cunts up, around here, too. I'm just an irish ex-heavyweight amateur boxer, so whoop em. :

angelica

FinsburyParkCarrots wrote:

I've an Andromeda strain busting to disagree.

:eek: :eek:



It's hard to take you seriously for some strange reason.......