Abortion

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  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    http://ted.com/tedtalks/tedtalksplayer.cfm?key=d_gilbert
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • prism
    prism Posts: 2,440
    soulsinging wrote:
    have you seen the wnba? it's about as exciting as watching your local elementary school team.

    but i was thinking more about the double standard that women can never express any sort of opinion during a pregnancy, but if a woman cheats on her husband and then leaves him, he still has to pay for her children. does the child only become his once it's out?

    he still has to pay for her children? am I right to assume that these children aren't his but hers from a previous relationship? I've always thought that it was stupid and rediculous that sometimes men have to pay child support for kids that aren't even their own if they are seperated from the Mom, but once the divorce is finalized those child-support orders are dropped.


    a man doesn't have to pay child support until the child is born, provided that the kid proves to be his.
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  • Dog Loyal
    Dog Loyal Posts: 336
    prism wrote:
    he still has to pay for her children? am I right to assume that these children aren't his but hers from a previous relationship? I've always thought that it was stupid and rediculous that sometimes men have to pay child support for kids that aren't even their own if they are seperated from the Mom, but once the divorce is finalized those child-support orders are dropped.


    a man doesn't have to pay child support until the child is born, provided that the kid proves to be his.
    I'm not very sympathetic to men having to pay child support. It's just money. There is so much more involved in child rearing, so much emotion, so much cleaning up vomit in the middle of the night ... so a guy has to cut some piddling check. It's just money.

    There is no amount of money that matches the commitment and work of actually parenting a child.
    The kids of today should defend themselves against the Seventies Nineties.
  • soulsinging
    soulsinging Posts: 13,202
    prism wrote:
    he still has to pay for her children? am I right to assume that these children aren't his but hers from a previous relationship? I've always thought that it was stupid and rediculous that sometimes men have to pay child support for kids that aren't even their own if they are seperated from the Mom, but once the divorce is finalized those child-support orders are dropped.


    a man doesn't have to pay child support until the child is born, provided that the kid proves to be his.

    well regardless, they'd be HER children becos HE didnt give birth to them, right?
  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    Dog Loyal wrote:
    Women, and my husband. ;)

    I figured as much. Well, I don't trust men more than women. I think that's kind of myopic.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • Dog Loyal
    Dog Loyal Posts: 336
    Ahnimus wrote:
    I figured as much. Well, I don't trust men more than women. I think that's kind of myopic.
    Wow, you didn't catch the little winky emoticon that indicated I was being facetious? So now I'm myopic? Da- amn.
    The kids of today should defend themselves against the Seventies Nineties.
  • decides2dream
    decides2dream Posts: 14,977
    soulsinging wrote:
    no you cannot. you think you can. you pretend you are becos you know the rules. but what you're doing is about as much playing sports as a man wearing one of those fake bellies is pregnant.


    say that to the williams sisters........as i am sure either one of em could easily kick yer arse in almost any sport. this is one of the most utterly ridiculous 'arguements' i've seen sprout up in an abortion thread....so i guess that's somethin'. :p PLENTY of women can, and do play...and play well. if one want's to disagree with that...c'est la vie...but it does not change what is. many like to 'think' they know better than most others....doesn't make it true.


    and back on the real topic....i am pro-choice, but i do not agree with late-term abortion unless the mother's life is at risk. i think a woman can make her mind whether she wants to terminate her pregnancy WAY earlier than the third trimester, and a fetus IS far developed, can feel pain, etc at that point...so while i believe it IS a woman's right to choose overall if she wants to follow through with a pregnancy or not..i do agree with time limits simply b/c it is the most humane thing to do, and there is no reason for one to wait so long to abort beyond health risks.
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  • catefrances
    catefrances Posts: 29,003
    soulsinging wrote:
    well regardless, they'd be HER children becos HE didnt give birth to them, right?

    that's right. we birthed them. we own them. that's why your momma owns you. :p:D:D
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  • soulsinging
    soulsinging Posts: 13,202
    decides2dream wrote:
    say that to the williams sisters........as i am sure either one of em could easily kick yer arse in almost any sport. this is one of the most utterly ridiculous 'arguements' i've seen sprout up in an abortion thread....so i guess that's somethin'. :p PLENTY of women can, and do play...and play well. if one want's to disagree with that...c'est la vie...but it does not change what is. many like to 'think' they know better than most others....doesn't make it true.

    it was intended to show the ridiculousness in discounting men's contributions to child-rearing. the last time i checked, no woman can give birth without a man.
  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    Dog Loyal wrote:
    Wow, you didn't catch the little winky emoticon that indicated I was being facetious? So now I'm myopic? Da- amn.

    Don't try all that complicated social junk with me. My social interplay cortex is damaged or underdeveloped. ;)
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • soulsinging
    soulsinging Posts: 13,202
    catefrances wrote:
    that's right. we birthed them. we own them. that's why your momma owns you. :p:D:D

    then men should never have to pay child support correct? becos it is not his child, it is hers.
  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    soulsinging wrote:
    then men should never have to pay child support correct? becos it is not his child, it is hers.

    That's a good point.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • catefrances
    catefrances Posts: 29,003
    soulsinging wrote:
    it was intended to show the ridiculousness in discounting men's contributions to child-rearing. the last time i checked, no woman can give birth without a man.

    au contraire. we can give birth without a man. i've done it. :) we just can't grow a baby without your input.yet!
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  • gue_barium
    gue_barium Posts: 5,515
    Cheguevara6 wrote:
    I am completely for a woman's right to choose. Completely. But it seems there are even some within the prochoice movement who believe after a certain amount of months or trimesters, that that power should be taken away from women.

    Am I odd in being for abortion ANYTIME in a pregnancy. Anytime. I dont think after the third trimester it should be outlawed.

    The way I see it your for abortion or your not for it. I am for it. So abortion anytime during the pregnancy seems fair

    This sounds odd from someone concerned about the welfare of cows, chickens, and baby seals.
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  • soulsinging
    soulsinging Posts: 13,202
    catefrances wrote:
    au contraire. we can give birth without a man. i've done it. :) we just can't grow a baby without your input.yet!

    no you cannot. as you acknowledged, without a man, there is no pregnancy.
  • decides2dream
    decides2dream Posts: 14,977
    soulsinging wrote:
    it was intended to show the ridiculousness in discounting men's contributions to child-rearing. the last time i checked, no woman can give birth without a man.



    guess i missed the humor, and the posts discounting a man's contributions.


    *edit - and catefrances did well differentiating there. a trip to the sperm bank is all. ;)
    however, in all seriousness....no one is denying a man's pivotal role and we can talk in circles about that too as usually occurs. i whole-heartedly agree a man should absolutely be consulted in such issues, however, bottomline when push comes to shove if a man and woman cannot agree, i believe the decision lies with the female simply b/c it IS in her body. all know the law as it stands, and i personally think a man and woman at the very least should discuss such 'what-ifs' before engaging in sexual relations. after the fact, it's just a shame if they're not on the same page...but BOTH parties shgould know their rights, etc beforehand.
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  • catefrances
    catefrances Posts: 29,003
    soulsinging wrote:
    no you cannot. as you acknowledged, without a man, there is no pregnancy.
    ah but that's not what you said. you said a woman couldn't give birth without a man. and i assured you we could. as i myself have done. conception is another thing altogether. but that's not what we were talking about.
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  • soulsinging
    soulsinging Posts: 13,202
    catefrances wrote:
    ah but that's not what you said. you said a woman couldn't give birth without a man. and i assured you we could. as i myself have done. conception is another thing altogether. but that's not what we were talking about.

    it is what we were talking about. without a man there is no conception, without conception there is no birth. tell me one person who ever gave birth without any male contribution? it is biologically impossible.

    bottom line being, do you agree that men should never have to pay child support? it is never their child correct?
  • catefrances
    catefrances Posts: 29,003
    soulsinging wrote:
    it is what we were talking about. without a man there is no conception, without conception there is no birth. tell me one person who ever gave birth without any male contribution? it is biologically impossible.

    bottom line being, do you agree that men should never have to pay child support? it is never their child correct?

    no i do not agree that men should never pay child support. if two people have come to an agreed decision to have the children in the first place then BOTH of them should take responsibility for the children.
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  • soulsinging
    soulsinging Posts: 13,202
    catefrances wrote:
    no i do not agree that men should never pay child support. if two people have come to an agreed decision to have the children in the first place then BOTH of them should take responsibility for the children.

    both? then how come men aren't even allowed to open their mouths or have any say when a woman is pregnant? doesn't have some resposbility for that child?

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