I'm 22, and personally don't have any experiences (within my family and as far as I know) with abortion. I'm a Roman Catholic, and yes, I'm Pro-Life.
But let me clear something up first. Being a Catholic has nothing to do whatsoever with me being Pro-Life. My take on abortion is totally moral and ethical. In my case at least, God has nothing to do with it.
Although I'm Pro-Life, I do see some circumstances where abortion is acceptable, and sometimes even necessary. For instance, if a woman is raped (be it a 16 or a 40 year-old), I can totally see why she wouldn't want to have that baby and therefore, I would consider this a case were abortion is acceptable. Another of those exceptional situations would be when the baby's or the mother's life is endangered (I think this is also seen as an acceptable situation for abortion by the Catholic Church. Just FYI). The last of these exceptional circumstances would be when the baby presents development problems that mean that when born, the kid would have to endure much suffering and pain. This too IMO is an acceptable situation for abortion.
Everything else though, I see as unacceptable. I cannot even comprehend how some people feel so comfortable killing a human only because they forgot to use a condom or take a pill. To me, that is human kind at its worse. It's irresponsible, selfish and even sadistic. I feel offended when people even contemplate abortion after having a wild night out, and were too careless to think that having unsafe sex might lead to an unwanted pregnancy.
I mean, the term Pro-Choice gets thrown around a lot, and very lightly. At the end you didn't give the child much choice, did you?
And just for the record, I find the idea of abortion after the third trimester, utterly disgusting.
I cannot even comprehend ow some people feel so comfortable killing a human only because they forgot to use a condom or take a pill. To me, that is human kind at its worse. It's irresponsible, selfish and even sadistic.
So, you think irresponsible, selfish and sadistic people who, in your opinion, represent humankind at its worst, should be PARENTS?
And please, don't put adoption up there as your answer because women and girls who carry a pregnancy they didn't want to full term and go though labor and tidal waves of emotion that are inherent in giving away a child are ANYTHING but irresponsible, selfish and sadistic.
So believe me, these people you think represent the worst of humanity are going to be the ones raising their unwanted offspring.
However, I want to say that I fully support your right not to have an abortion and not to ever have sex of any kind that might result in an unintended pregnancy.
The kids of today should defend themselves against the Seventies Nineties.
So, you think irresponsible, selfish and sadistic people who, in your opinion, represent humankind at its worst, should be PARENTS?
And please, don't put adoption up there as your answer because women and girls who carry a pregnancy they didn't want to full term and go though labor and tidal waves of emotion that are inherent in giving away a child are ANYTHING but irresponsible, selfish and sadistic.
So believe me, these people you think represent the worst of humanity are going to be the ones raising their unwanted offspring.
However, I want to say that I fully support your right not to have an abortion and not to ever have sex of any kind that might result in an unintended pregnancy.
You DO have a point there. That child might suffer being raised by people like that, but there MUST be another way, I simply don't see killing the child as a final answer. It just seems to be the easy way out. And yeah, I was indeed thinking about adoption.
However, I want to say that I fully support your right not to have an abortion and not to ever have sex of any kind that might result in an unintended pregnancy.
Was this a sarcastic comment?
Please note that I'm not waging war on anyone. I'm just saying my thoughts about a much debated topic, and one which I feel strongly about. I'm just an unexperienced, very opinionated youngster.
You DO have a point there. That child might suffer being raised by people like that, but there MUST be another way, I simply don't see killing the child as a final answer. It just seems to be the easy way out. And yeah, I was indeed thinking about adoption.
It is not a "child" anymore than the acorn I have in my pocket is an oak tree, or the carton of eggs in your fridge is a dozen chickens. It is not even a sentient being.
A girl or woman should not be forced into motherhood (a HUGE commitment!) or into servitude to bear children for the childless just because her method of birth control failed, or even if her self-control failed. The punishment does not fit the crime.
You know who I want to see raising kids? People who take parenthood seriously! Not people who can't even manage to master something so basic as birth control. Women who have had abortions in the past tend to be MORE concientious mothers than those who just bear kids willy-nilly 'cause oopsie, they got preggers. Women have abortions because they understand what a serious, lifelong commitment motherhood is and they refuse to enter into it lightly.
The kids of today should defend themselves against the Seventies Nineties.
It is not a "child" anymore than the acorn I have in my pocket is an oak tree, or the carton of eggs in your fridge is a dozen chickens. It is not even a sentient being.
A girl or woman should not be forced into motherhood (a HUGE commitment!) or into servitude to bear children for the childless just because her method of birth control failed, or even if her self-control failed. The punishment does not fit the crime.
You know who I want to see raising kids? People who take parenthood seriously! Not people who can't even manage to master something so basic as birth control. Women who have had abortions in the past tend to be MORE concientious mothers than those who just bear kids willy-nilly 'cause oopsie, they got preggers. Women have abortions because they understand what a serious, lifelong commitment motherhood is and they refuse to enter into it lightly.
OK, so I take you're a mum yourself. I do get your point, and as a more experienced person (you) I'm being as open to your thoughts as it's humanly possible for a 22 year-old.
I get your take on motherhood and I completely agree that being a mum is not something you can improvise. You have to be prepared physically, mentally and spiritually for such a huge task. After all it is a human you're about to raise.
BUT, I do think that people should be conscious enough to practice self control if they don't have a method of protection, and if they know beforehand that they're gonna end up in bed with someone, to be responsible enough to buy something that will help prevent that unwanted pregnancy. If they do use protection, and this fails... well, I guess that would be something for me to think about. It could end up as another of my exceptions.
Not at all. I really hope that you manage to never take part in an unexpected or ill-timed pregnancy, and that you will be man enough to either keep it in your pants or refuse to blindly follow the Catholic dictates forbidding birth control.
I've never had an unplanned pregnancy, yet I've had a late-term (second trimester) abortion. You never know what might happen to you in life.
The kids of today should defend themselves against the Seventies Nineties.
OK, so I take you're a mum yourself. I do get your point, and as a more experienced person (you) I'm being as open to your thoughts as it's humanly possible for a 22 year-old.
I get your take on motherhood and I completely agree that being a mum is not something you can improvise. You have to be prepared physically, mentally and spiritually for such a huge task. After all it is a human you're about to raise.
BUT, I do think that people should be conscious enough to practice self control if they don't have a method of protection, and if they know beforehand that they're gonna end up in bed with someone, to be responsible enough to buy something that will help prevent that unwanted pregnancy. If they do use protection, and this fails... well, I guess that would be something for me to think about. It could end up as another of my exceptions.
I'm with you there, Bee-boy. I'm all for birth control!
The kids of today should defend themselves against the Seventies Nineties.
I'm with you there, Bee-boy. I'm all for birth control!
I like it when I'm able to debate a topic like this with someone who, even though doesn't share some of my viewpoints, is smart and civilized enough to respect them. You ma'am, are a dying breed. Thanks a lot for the chat
I like it when I'm able to debate a topic like this with someone who, even though doesn't share some of my viewpoints, is smart and civilized enough to respect them. You ma'am, are a dying breed. Thanks a lot for the chat
Thanks! I was thinking the same thing about you. You're a reasonable person, and someday you'll be a responsible dad.:)
The kids of today should defend themselves against the Seventies Nineties.
Thanks! I was thinking the same thing about you. You're a reasonable person, and someday you'll be a responsible dad.:)
I just blushed... Unfotunatelly not many people my age are as tolerant and empathetic as I am... They can't accept when they're wrong for that matter. We the youth seem to have an irrepresible sense of knowing it all (Including myself).
Although I'm Pro-Life, I do see some circumstances where abortion is acceptable, and sometimes even necessary. For instance, if a woman is raped (be it a 16 or a 40 year-old), I can totally see why she wouldn't want to have that baby and therefore, I would consider this a case were abortion is acceptable.
why is a baby's life less important just becos it was the product of rape? so the woman doesn't want to have it... many other women don't either. why does she get to murder a baby for the sins of its father?
The last of these exceptional circumstances would be when the baby presents development problems that mean that when born, the kid would have to endure much suffering and pain. This too IMO is an acceptable situation for abortion.
who deciees what is sufficient developmental problems? retardation? schizophrenia?
who deciees what is sufficient developmental problems? retardation? schizophrenia?
1) Retardation is not a development problem that will result in the child suffering and being in pain. Everyone I know that has down syndrome is extremely happy and healthy for that matter.
2) I don't think you can diagnose a fetus with schizophrenia.
3) I'm talking about life-threatening conditions and those conditions that will SERIOUSLY affect his/her life.
Note that I'm not defending these. I wouldn't do it myself if I was a woman (this statement is totally vague since I am not one, and my opinion might change in case I was actually a female) nor would I suggest any of the women I care about to do it. It just seems more understandable if it's under these circumstances IMO.
1) Retardation is not a development problem that will result in the child suffering and being in pain. Everyone I know that has down syndrome is extremely happy and healthy for that matter.
2) I don't think you can diagnose a fetus with schizophrenia.
3) I'm talking about life-threatening conditions and those conditions that will SERIOUSLY affect his/her life.
Note that I'm not defending these. I wouldn't do it myself if I was a woman (this statement is totally vague since I am not one, and my opinion might change in case I was actually a female) nor would I suggest any of the women I care about to do it. It just seems more understandable if it's under these circumstances IMO.
but you see the difficulty. how much pain is enough to justify an abortion? who decides? how?
and you didnt answer my first question... why does an unborn baby have to pay for the sins of its father? it makes no sense to be pro-life, say abortion is killing a baby, and then say that that's ok if the baby's father was a bad man.
Abortion should be a last resort not the first option
I'm thinking...situation arises....you look at all the options and pick one....simple really....and if your a woman..and you got pregnant..and don't want to raise a child...you abort....quite simple really. Not saying decision is easy for the woman to make...but no one....absolutely no one has any right to stick their righteous nose into it. And..while I'm at it....it isn't a person at conception....am I missing something here...please help me understand.
Now do think this decision should in the first trimester....but I'm thinking thats really the question......when do the cells gain rights.....and it isn't at conception...thats silly.
I'm thinking...situation arises....you look at all the options and pick one....simple really....and if your a woman..and you got pregnant..and don't want to raise a child...you abort....quite simple really. Not saying decision is easy for the woman to make...but no one....absolutely no one has any right to stick their righteous nose into it. And..while I'm at it....it isn't a person at conception....am I missing something here...please help me understand.
Now do think this decision should in the first trimester....but I'm thinking thats really the question......when do the cells gain rights.....and it isn't at conception...thats silly.
yes, you are. they think a fetus is a person at conception.
but you see the difficulty. how much pain is enough to justify an abortion? who decides? how?
and you didnt answer my first question... why does an unborn baby have to pay for the sins of its father? it makes no sense to be pro-life, say abortion is killing a baby, and then say that that's ok if the baby's father was a bad man.
As idiotic as it may sound, I've debated this with myself several times. And it's extremely hard for me to reach a reasonable conclusion about abortion and rape. Both arguments have good points. In the end I'll always be pro-life, and I'll always despise abortion, but the point here is, how would you feel about carrying and giving birth to the baby of a disgustingly sick person which made a crime out of you... Again, it's too hard to decide that if you haven't been raped, and even more if you're not even a female.
yes, you are. they think a fetus is a person at conception.
That's when you turn this article towards the theological side of things. Most people base their idea of life according to their religion. Since not everyone is a Catholic or a Jew or a Muslim, no one will ever agree on when does a fetus become a child. From my viewpoint and that of my religion, life begins at conception (altough I constantly question this). But then again, I don't expect everyone to agree with that.
yes, you are. they think a fetus is a person at conception.
Yes, and they think a bucket full of acorns is a forest of mighty oaks.
To call a fertilized egg a "a child" is the equivalent stupidity of calling a newborn "a grown man." They are not the same thing, they do not have the same abilities or rights, and to treat them as the exact same thing is myopic.
The kids of today should defend themselves against the Seventies Nineties.
That's when you turn this article towards the theological side of things. Most people base their idea of life according to their religion. Since not everyone is a Catholic or a Jew or a Muslim, no one will ever agree on when does a fetus become a child. From my viewpoint and that of my religion, life begins at conception. But then again, I don't expect everyone to agree with that.
i dont really have a stance on it. it's a very complicated issue and both sides are full of contradictions. id err on the side of caution normally and say it probly is a "life" at conception, but the practicalities of outlawing abortion mean that we need to deal with it, which was my point earlier about making it unnecessary. i wish pro-lifers would spend more time lobbying for guaranteed health care, pre-natal care, and job protection for mothers, so they could make the decision to keep the baby easier. i wish we taught comprehensive sex ed and gave young people guaranteed, anonymous access to it so that unintended pregnancies decreased. i wish our adoption system were more streamlined so that it wasnt prohibitively expensive and complicated and bounces kids around foster care for years. but outlawing abortion will only create more problems.
Yes, and they think a bucket full of acorns is a forest of mighty oaks.
To call a fertilized egg a "a child" is the equivalent stupidity of calling a newborn "a grown man." They are not the same thing, they do not have the same abilities or rights, and to treat them as the exact same thing is myopic.
it's a valid viewpoint and your rhetoric does not help the situation. you treat people who disagree with you like they are stupid when you say things like that. they have a very sensitive and emotional view on the subject that is utterly legitimate and reasonable. to deny and dismiss that with such malicious arrogance as you display that weakens your credibility and your ability to convince them or get them to listen to you.
i happen to agree with you. but i can completely understand where they are coming from and it is not a ridiculous conclusion.
i dont really have a stance on it. it's a very complicated issue and both sides are full of contradictions. id err on the side of caution normally and say it probly is a "life" at conception, but the practicalities of outlawing abortion mean that we need to deal with it, which was my point earlier about making it unnecessary. i wish pro-lifers would spend more time lobbying for guaranteed health care, pre-natal care, and job protection for mothers, so they could make the decision to keep the baby easier. i wish we taught comprehensive sex ed and gave young people guaranteed, anonymous access to it so that unintended pregnancies decreased. i wish our adoption system were more streamlined so that it wasnt prohibitively expensive and complicated and bounces kids around foster care for years. but outlawing abortion will only create more problems.
Nicely said.
I think it's a form of human life, but one so tenuous that those who are responsible for it should be allowed to decide whether to continue.
The kids of today should defend themselves against the Seventies Nineties.
it's a valid viewpoint and your rhetoric does not help the situation. you treat people who disagree with you like they are stupid when you say things like that. they have a very sensitive and emotional view on the subject that is utterly legitimate and reasonable. to deny and dismiss that with such malicious arrogance as you display that weakens your credibility and your ability to convince them or get them to listen to you.
i happen to agree with you. but i can completely understand where they are coming from and it is not a ridiculous conclusion.
Geez, did I really need a lecture on "how I treat people?" That they are "sensitive and emotional on the subject" does not mean that I shouldn't be allowed to point out that a clump of cells is not a child.
The kids of today should defend themselves against the Seventies Nineties.
yes, you are. they think a fetus is a person at conception.
but how....how can a few cells be called a person...can't...thats my issue...so the way that I see it...and as you mentioned in last couple of posts....there is grey area in this..and not an easy answer....BUT...If a person truely feels that its a person at conception they're using their religion...which is logically flawed..hence their argument is flawed.
but how....how can a few cells be called a person...can't...thats my issue...so the way that I see it...and as you mentioned in last couple of posts....there is grey area in this..and not an easy answer....BUT...If a person truely feels that its a person at conception they're using their religion...which is logically flawed..hence their argument is flawed.
How do you define a religion as flawed by using human logic?
Comments
i have father. what's your point? and dont call me son, im probably older than you.
http://www.ebonmusings.org/atheism/pillows.html
But let me clear something up first. Being a Catholic has nothing to do whatsoever with me being Pro-Life. My take on abortion is totally moral and ethical. In my case at least, God has nothing to do with it.
Although I'm Pro-Life, I do see some circumstances where abortion is acceptable, and sometimes even necessary. For instance, if a woman is raped (be it a 16 or a 40 year-old), I can totally see why she wouldn't want to have that baby and therefore, I would consider this a case were abortion is acceptable. Another of those exceptional situations would be when the baby's or the mother's life is endangered (I think this is also seen as an acceptable situation for abortion by the Catholic Church. Just FYI). The last of these exceptional circumstances would be when the baby presents development problems that mean that when born, the kid would have to endure much suffering and pain. This too IMO is an acceptable situation for abortion.
Everything else though, I see as unacceptable. I cannot even comprehend how some people feel so comfortable killing a human only because they forgot to use a condom or take a pill. To me, that is human kind at its worse. It's irresponsible, selfish and even sadistic. I feel offended when people even contemplate abortion after having a wild night out, and were too careless to think that having unsafe sex might lead to an unwanted pregnancy.
I mean, the term Pro-Choice gets thrown around a lot, and very lightly. At the end you didn't give the child much choice, did you?
And just for the record, I find the idea of abortion after the third trimester, utterly disgusting.
And please, don't put adoption up there as your answer because women and girls who carry a pregnancy they didn't want to full term and go though labor and tidal waves of emotion that are inherent in giving away a child are ANYTHING but irresponsible, selfish and sadistic.
So believe me, these people you think represent the worst of humanity are going to be the ones raising their unwanted offspring.
However, I want to say that I fully support your right not to have an abortion and not to ever have sex of any kind that might result in an unintended pregnancy.
Was this a sarcastic comment?
Please note that I'm not waging war on anyone. I'm just saying my thoughts about a much debated topic, and one which I feel strongly about. I'm just an unexperienced, very opinionated youngster.
A girl or woman should not be forced into motherhood (a HUGE commitment!) or into servitude to bear children for the childless just because her method of birth control failed, or even if her self-control failed. The punishment does not fit the crime.
You know who I want to see raising kids? People who take parenthood seriously! Not people who can't even manage to master something so basic as birth control. Women who have had abortions in the past tend to be MORE concientious mothers than those who just bear kids willy-nilly 'cause oopsie, they got preggers. Women have abortions because they understand what a serious, lifelong commitment motherhood is and they refuse to enter into it lightly.
OK, so I take you're a mum yourself. I do get your point, and as a more experienced person (you) I'm being as open to your thoughts as it's humanly possible for a 22 year-old.
I get your take on motherhood and I completely agree that being a mum is not something you can improvise. You have to be prepared physically, mentally and spiritually for such a huge task. After all it is a human you're about to raise.
BUT, I do think that people should be conscious enough to practice self control if they don't have a method of protection, and if they know beforehand that they're gonna end up in bed with someone, to be responsible enough to buy something that will help prevent that unwanted pregnancy. If they do use protection, and this fails... well, I guess that would be something for me to think about. It could end up as another of my exceptions.
I've never had an unplanned pregnancy, yet I've had a late-term (second trimester) abortion. You never know what might happen to you in life.
I like it when I'm able to debate a topic like this with someone who, even though doesn't share some of my viewpoints, is smart and civilized enough to respect them. You ma'am, are a dying breed. Thanks a lot for the chat
I just blushed...
why is a baby's life less important just becos it was the product of rape? so the woman doesn't want to have it... many other women don't either. why does she get to murder a baby for the sins of its father?
who deciees what is sufficient developmental problems? retardation? schizophrenia?
i agree with that. id like to see abortion become unnecessary rather than illegal.
1) Retardation is not a development problem that will result in the child suffering and being in pain. Everyone I know that has down syndrome is extremely happy and healthy for that matter.
2) I don't think you can diagnose a fetus with schizophrenia.
3) I'm talking about life-threatening conditions and those conditions that will SERIOUSLY affect his/her life.
Note that I'm not defending these. I wouldn't do it myself if I was a woman (this statement is totally vague since I am not one, and my opinion might change in case I was actually a female) nor would I suggest any of the women I care about to do it. It just seems more understandable if it's under these circumstances IMO.
but you see the difficulty. how much pain is enough to justify an abortion? who decides? how?
and you didnt answer my first question... why does an unborn baby have to pay for the sins of its father? it makes no sense to be pro-life, say abortion is killing a baby, and then say that that's ok if the baby's father was a bad man.
Now do think this decision should in the first trimester....but I'm thinking thats really the question......when do the cells gain rights.....and it isn't at conception...thats silly.
yes, you are. they think a fetus is a person at conception.
As idiotic as it may sound, I've debated this with myself several times. And it's extremely hard for me to reach a reasonable conclusion about abortion and rape. Both arguments have good points. In the end I'll always be pro-life, and I'll always despise abortion, but the point here is, how would you feel about carrying and giving birth to the baby of a disgustingly sick person which made a crime out of you... Again, it's too hard to decide that if you haven't been raped, and even more if you're not even a female.
That's when you turn this article towards the theological side of things. Most people base their idea of life according to their religion. Since not everyone is a Catholic or a Jew or a Muslim, no one will ever agree on when does a fetus become a child. From my viewpoint and that of my religion, life begins at conception (altough I constantly question this). But then again, I don't expect everyone to agree with that.
To call a fertilized egg a "a child" is the equivalent stupidity of calling a newborn "a grown man." They are not the same thing, they do not have the same abilities or rights, and to treat them as the exact same thing is myopic.
i dont really have a stance on it. it's a very complicated issue and both sides are full of contradictions. id err on the side of caution normally and say it probly is a "life" at conception, but the practicalities of outlawing abortion mean that we need to deal with it, which was my point earlier about making it unnecessary. i wish pro-lifers would spend more time lobbying for guaranteed health care, pre-natal care, and job protection for mothers, so they could make the decision to keep the baby easier. i wish we taught comprehensive sex ed and gave young people guaranteed, anonymous access to it so that unintended pregnancies decreased. i wish our adoption system were more streamlined so that it wasnt prohibitively expensive and complicated and bounces kids around foster care for years. but outlawing abortion will only create more problems.
it's a valid viewpoint and your rhetoric does not help the situation. you treat people who disagree with you like they are stupid when you say things like that. they have a very sensitive and emotional view on the subject that is utterly legitimate and reasonable. to deny and dismiss that with such malicious arrogance as you display that weakens your credibility and your ability to convince them or get them to listen to you.
i happen to agree with you. but i can completely understand where they are coming from and it is not a ridiculous conclusion.
I think it's a form of human life, but one so tenuous that those who are responsible for it should be allowed to decide whether to continue.
That's very true. The main thing that is needed is awareness.
but how....how can a few cells be called a person...can't...thats my issue...so the way that I see it...and as you mentioned in last couple of posts....there is grey area in this..and not an easy answer....BUT...If a person truely feels that its a person at conception they're using their religion...which is logically flawed..hence their argument is flawed.
How do you define a religion as flawed by using human logic?