some intelligent topic for you

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  • 810wmb
    810wmb Posts: 849
    mammasan wrote:
    If you, or anyone else, is willing to sell your soul and principles to feel safe fine with me.

    i'm not

    but are these people a real army? countries used to put on a uniform, fight and die.

    we give them geneva convention rights, when they don't deserve it.

    the are cowards that target innocents. blow men, women and children up.

    no "hate crimes" for them right?
    i'm the meat, yer not...signed Capt Asshat
  • mammasan
    mammasan Posts: 5,656
    810wmb wrote:
    i'm not

    but are these people a real army? countries used to put on a uniform, fight and die.

    we give them geneva convention rights, when they don't deserve it.

    the are cowards that target innocents. blow men, women and children up.

    no "hate crimes" for them right?

    I agree that they are less than human for the acts of violence they commit but just because they are that way doesn't mean that we have to lower ourselves to those standards. We are a country founded upon certain principles and we shouldn't have to forfeit those principles simply because of the savagry of the people we are fighting.

    Further more, many professionals from within the military and intelligence community have come out against waterboarding, or any other type of torture. They have also stated that informtion obtained from these methods is usually very unreliable. So not only are we forfeiting our principles but we are doing it for nothing.
    "When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
  • soulsinging
    soulsinging Posts: 13,202
    jlew24asu wrote:
    you obviously havnt been following my posts. never under no circumstances do I accept the government sending people to other countries to get tortured. speaking of, where is the outcry for countries who actually DO torture and 50 times worse then waterboarding. seems to be ok, cuz its not us.

    i'd raise the outcry. but we don't control those countries. we do control our policies. and i think just becos they do it is not good reason for us to do it. i miss the america that used to lead by example instead of just brute force and being the biggest guy on the block.
  • mammasan
    mammasan Posts: 5,656
    soulsinging wrote:
    i'd raise the outcry. but we don't control those countries. we do control our policies. and i think just becos they do it is not good reason for us to do it. i miss the america that used to lead by example instead of just brute force and being the biggest guy on the block.

    Well said. We are supposed to be this beacon of democracy and example by which others should follow. Hopefully within my lifetime we can return to that.
    "When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
  • 810wmb
    810wmb Posts: 849
    mammasan wrote:
    Well said. We are supposed to be this beacon of democracy and example by which others should follow. Hopefully within my lifetime we can return to that.

    but they hate us no matter how decent we are.
    i'm the meat, yer not...signed Capt Asshat
  • mammasan
    mammasan Posts: 5,656
    810wmb wrote:
    but they hate us no matter how decent we are.

    That hate us for many reasons and just because they hate us doesn't mean that we have to act any differently. I don't want this country to shape up just so some whacked out fundamentalist will start liking us. I want this country to straight up because I believe in the core principles this country was founded on. I love my country and am proud of being an American but I am not proud of our government's actions and how they have tarnish our image.
    "When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
  • soulsinging
    soulsinging Posts: 13,202
    810wmb wrote:
    but they hate us no matter how decent we are.

    not true. the usa was widely admired and respected up until about the 1960's when we let the success we were blessed with during world ward 2 and its aftermath go to our heads. america was a beacon of hope and leadership in a very confused and dark time. we may not have won world war 2, but we inspired more hope than anyone else in doing it. once that altruism gave way to paternalism, people started to turn on us. hell, the world was with us on sept 11. the entire international community was once again prepared to support the united states in taking a unified stand on international terrorism. we squandered that good will though. we could have it back and it wouldn't be hard. we just have to show them through our actions that america does stand for the ideals we've always espoused: equality, freedom, and opportunity. torturing people without trial and unilateral invasions is not the way to do that. we have gone from "speak softly and carry a big stick" to "brag loudly and carry a sawed off shotgun."
  • 810wmb
    810wmb Posts: 849
    i won't argue the reason why, just what is

    edit - i actually agree with you for the most part
    i'm the meat, yer not...signed Capt Asshat
  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    mammasan wrote:
    I agree that they are less than human for the acts of violence they commit....

    You guys seem to be confused about what is and is not human.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • 810wmb
    810wmb Posts: 849
    Ahnimus wrote:
    You guys seem to be confused about what is and is not human.

    let us bask in the light!


    do tell us what we're missing
    i'm the meat, yer not...signed Capt Asshat
  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    810wmb wrote:
    let us bask in the light!


    do tell us what we're missing

    Everything a human does is human.

    If you mean "civil", then be advised that what is and is not "civil" is a determination of the majority or by antiquity and does not convey fact, but opinion.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • RolandTD20Kdrummer
    RolandTD20Kdrummer Posts: 13,066
    810wmb wrote:
    but they hate us no matter how decent we are.


    I actually heard violins softly playing in the background when I read this.

    hehe
    Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
    and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
    over specific principles, goals, and policies.

    http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg

    (\__/)
    ( o.O)
    (")_(")
  • jlew24asu
    jlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    soulsinging wrote:
    i'd raise the outcry. but we don't control those countries. we do control our policies. and i think just becos they do it is not good reason for us to do it. i miss the america that used to lead by example instead of just brute force and being the biggest guy on the block.

    yea I agree. I'm all for less involvement around the world. lets bring them all home, protect our borders and focus on the greatest of america. be a shining example of a place where dreams can come true.

    sad thing is, we were attacked. we were attacked by an enemy with no borders. an enemy that blends into populations around the world. is that justification for going into Iraq? no absolutely not. but reason to stay and fight them? maybe so.
  • jlew24asu
    jlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:
    I actually heard violins softly playing in the background when I read this.

    hehe

    sounds funny but he is right. conservative Islam hates everything about the west. we listen to music, have fun, love and respect women, are free to worship whomever or whatever we want. everything is pretty much the exact opposite of what they believe. we are devils in their eyes. throw in a group of jews with our same ideals who lay claim to part of the holy land and poof, an enemy worth martyrdoming yourself against is born.
  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    jlew24asu wrote:
    sounds funny but he is right. conservative Islam hates everything about the west. we listen to music, have fun, love and respect women, are free to worship whomever or whatever we want. everything is pretty much the exact opposite of what they believe. we are devils in their eyes. throw in a group of jews with our same ideals who lay claim to part of the holy land and poof, an enemy worth martyrdoming yourself against is born.

    Conservative Christianity hates all that stuff too.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • my2hands
    my2hands Posts: 17,117
    mammasan wrote:
    60 years ago we sentenced a Japanese soldier to 15 years in prison for waterboarding a US soldier. 30 years ago we condemned a government for using the same method against it's own citizens. 20 years ago we stated in all of our intelligence and military interrogation manuels that this form of interrogation was not to be used because of it's deprived nature. Now we want to use it and don't want to classify it as torture. The progression is pretty obvious to me. The next step is using some other form of depraved method of interrogation and once again drapping it in the American flag and calling it protecting our security.

    If you, or anyone else, is willing to sell your soul and principles to feel safe fine with me. I however will not. I would rather die in a free country that upholds certain principles than live in one without freedoms that would easly cast off principles for temporary safety.

    In my opinion this makes us no better than the savages who would stone a woman to death simply because she showned to much of her face in public.

    post of the day
  • my2hands
    my2hands Posts: 17,117
    Ahnimus wrote:
    Conservative Christianity hates all that stuff too.


    2nd best post of the day...
  • jlew24asu
    jlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    Ahnimus wrote:
    Conservative Christianity hates all that stuff too.

    are you kidding? since when?
  • jlew24asu
    jlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    my2hands wrote:
    2nd best post of the day...

    circle jerk cheerleading post of the day.
  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    jlew24asu wrote:
    are you kidding? since when?

    Sometime around 70 A.D. when the myth of Christianity was crafted.

    The worst of it for you fundamentalist types is that you have poor, hypocritcal representation. Like Ted Faggart and Kent Hovind.

    EDIT: Typo, sorry, should be Ted Faggard
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire

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