Ahhh Captalism

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  • jlew24asu
    jlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    spiral out wrote:
    Did you have a middle class upbringing? As i think your view is very different to that of a person born in a poor family
    my grandpa was a city laborer for 40 years. we had nothing. I am 27 and grew up with no cable, air conditioning, call waiting, microwave, all little things today that would have been nice growing up. but we were too poor. everything I have today is because of hard work.
    spiral out wrote:
    Rich people do indeed make people poor by not paying enough for lower paid jobs, because they want fatter profits each year and for what? how many houses and cars do you need? It's pure greed in my opinion.
    this makes no sense. explain your first sentence again.
    spiral out wrote:
    If minimum wage was about double here everyone could live a little more comfortably.

    I myself am living comfortably as i am lucky enough to have a skilled job. But that doesn't make me think that all the poor people are lazy because they don't.
    and what is that skilled job? where you born with those skills? I doubt it. yuo worked hard to become good at that skill. sorry, I have no sympathy for laziness.
    spiral out wrote:
    And infact where would you be without those people to serve you in burger king or whatever? Those jobs are needed and it is just fact that not everyone can climb there way up the ladder.
    jobs at burger king are not needed. if they werent there, I'd make my own burger.
  • spiral out
    spiral out Posts: 1,052
    jlew24asu wrote:
    my grandpa was a city laborer for 40 years. we had nothing. I am 27 and grew up with no cable, air conditioning, call waiting, microwave, all little things today that would have been nice growing up. but we were too poor. everything I have today is because of hard work.

    Did you mention somewhere on the boards private education?

    Either way i grew up the same but that was because most of those things were out or reach to alot of people in those days. Now they are seriously cheap.
    jlew24asu wrote:
    this makes no sense. explain your first sentence again.

    Am i wrong do corps not generally turn a bigger profit each year, whilst laying of loads of people from there jobs or outsourcing to countries where they pay penuts to extremely poor people who have to work ridiculous hours each week to make ends meet?
    jlew24asu wrote:
    and what is that skilled job? where you born with those skills? I doubt it. yuo worked hard to become good at that skill. sorry, I have no sympathy for laziness. .

    I'm in IT i'm here because when someone gave me there old computer i discovered a real intrest in it. Then i was lucky enough to get a good job in a school.

    I know people who would love to go back to school but would not be able to afford it while working in a low paid job, i would not call this laziness.
    jlew24asu wrote:
    jobs at burger king are not needed. if they werent there, I'd make my own burger.

    Ok what about the grocery store, the cleaner at your office, the guy in the gas station, all these job are nessercary. And they are all low paid.

    In my ideal world, everyone would be paid a fair wage one that actually resembles the cost of living. Not that everyone should all have the same just that corporate greed bugs me.
    Keep on rockin in the free world!!!!

    The economy has polarized to the point where the wealthiest 10% now own 85% of the nation’s wealth. Never before have the bottom 90% been so highly indebted, so dependent on the wealthy.
  • jlew24asu
    jlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    spiral out wrote:
    Did you mention somewhere on the boards private education?

    Either way i grew up the same but that was because most of those things were out or reach to alot of people in those days. Now they are seriously cheap.
    well i'm not some country club kid with a silver spoon in my mouth. which is what im sure you were thinking.
    spiral out wrote:
    Am i wrong do corps not generally turn a bigger profit each year, whilst laying of loads of people from there jobs or outsourcing to countries where they pay penuts to extremely poor people who have to work ridiculous hours each week to make ends meet?
    no, companies do not lay off loads of people. some do. most expand and hire more.


    spiral out wrote:
    I'm in IT i'm here because when someone gave me there old computer i discovered a real intrest in it. Then i was lucky enough to get a good job in a school.

    I know people who would love to go back to school but would not be able to afford it while working in a low paid job, i would not call this laziness.
    really? its call school loans. and since when do you need to school to become smart? go to a library. fuck, use google.

    I worked in IT for 6 years. which an Economics Degree. you know how? I studied books and passed 3 certification tests. Network+, CCNA, and CNWA. I never went to school for any of it. people are fucking lazy.


    spiral out wrote:
    Ok what about the grocery store, the cleaner at your office, the guy in the gas station, all these job are nessercary. And they are all low paid.
    because they are low skill jobs. mostly saved for high school kids or people who are happy to work non-stressful jobs.
    spiral out wrote:
    In my ideal world, everyone would be paid a fair wage one that actually resembles the cost of living. Not that everyone should all have the same just that corporate greed bugs me.
    that makes me all warm inside, but it is the MOST unfair way of running an economy. foolish acutally.
  • spiral out
    spiral out Posts: 1,052
    jlew24asu wrote:
    well i'm not some country club kid with a silver spoon in my mouth. which is what im sure you were thinking..

    I was in no way implying you had a silver spoon in your mouth, if anything i would have thought you lower middle class growing up. So your view of things is a little different to mine.
    jlew24asu wrote:
    no, companies do not lay off loads of people. some do. most expand and hire more.

    Ok well i'm talking about the news here, where many companies have laid of loads of staff yet have returned record profits for that year.

    jlew24asu wrote:
    really? its call school loans. and since when do you need to school to become smart? go to a library. fuck, use google.

    It's not about becoming smart though is it, you need certain education for certain better paid jobs thats just fact.
    jlew24asu wrote:
    I worked in IT for 6 years. which an Economics Degree. you know how? I studied books and passed 3 certification tests. Network+, CCNA, and CNWA. I never went to school for any of it. people are fucking lazy.

    It's not just a case of i have done xyz so everyone else can. It really isn't as simple as that. But unless you have lived that life or know anyone who does, i wouldn't expect you to understand.
    jlew24asu wrote:
    because they are low skill jobs. mostly saved for high school kids or people who are happy to work non-stressful jobs..

    Ok so every single adult over say 25 should be in some super paid job? It just isn't realistic.
    jlew24asu wrote:
    that makes me all warm inside, but it is the MOST unfair way of running an economy. foolish acutally.

    So massive tax breaks for the incredibly wealthy is fair? Whilst people have to bust a gut to pay the rent.

    At the end of the day my friend it is the middle classes who get screwed the most, but they are unable to see it. But hey maybe it's all different over there.

    What about all the people in poorer countries who are victim of circumstance, are they just plain lazy too?
    Keep on rockin in the free world!!!!

    The economy has polarized to the point where the wealthiest 10% now own 85% of the nation’s wealth. Never before have the bottom 90% been so highly indebted, so dependent on the wealthy.
  • jlew24asu
    jlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    Abuskedti wrote:
    that is what I figured and all things being equal that would be a good bet. but these models don't really apply anymore

    I don't know, the larger population will be taking from the table too... there is limited resources...

    why?
  • jlew24asu
    jlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    spiral out wrote:
    Ok well i'm talking about the news here, where many companies have laid of loads of staff yet have returned record profits for that year.
    there are also many companies, that you choose not to mention, who have hired many new workers. and still managed to gain an nice profit.
    spiral out wrote:
    It's not about becoming smart though is it, you need certain education for certain better paid jobs thats just fact..
    I dont see your point. people do not need school to get educated.
    spiral out wrote:
    It's not just a case of i have done xyz so everyone else can. It really isn't as simple as that. But unless you have lived that life or know anyone who does, i wouldn't expect you to understand
    no idea what the hell you are talking about.

    spiral out wrote:
    Ok so every single adult over say 25 should be in some super paid job? It just isn't realistic.
    wow did I say that? no, every adult over 25 has a choice on whether they want to stay a minimum wage worker or if they have to drive to excel and make more money. its a choice.
    spiral out wrote:
    So massive tax breaks for the incredibly wealthy is fair? Whilst people have to bust a gut to pay the rent.
    is it fair that someone who is successful should get taxed, on a % basis, more? why should success be punished?
    spiral out wrote:
    At the end of the day my friend it is the middle classes who get screwed the most, but they are unable to see it. But hey maybe it's all different over there.
    how so? i'm middle class and I'm not getting screwed at all.
    spiral out wrote:
    What about all the people in poorer countries who are victim of circumstance, are they just plain lazy too?
    nope. they deserve our charity.
  • spiral out
    spiral out Posts: 1,052
    jlew24asu wrote:
    is it fair that someone who is successful should get taxed, on a % basis, more? why should success be punished?

    These corps plain out avoid tax payments as much as they can. Do you do the same?

    But to prove my point would be to quote books you would dismiss as rubbish. So no point going down that road.
    jlew24asu wrote:
    how so? i'm middle class and I'm not getting screwed at all.


    As i said maybe it's different there. But again i would need to start qouting books so there's no point as you will just dismiss it as rubbish conspircy theory again.

    What i don't get jlew is why you defent the system so much. I mean we live within it and we are both doing ok. But the difference between you and i is, that i want to see how it really works and you want to belive it works how you are told it works.

    You even believe all poor out of work people are lazy. It's a myth they peddle to get you to think that they are your enemy and not the the insanly rich.
    Keep on rockin in the free world!!!!

    The economy has polarized to the point where the wealthiest 10% now own 85% of the nation’s wealth. Never before have the bottom 90% been so highly indebted, so dependent on the wealthy.
  • jlew24asu
    jlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    spiral out wrote:
    These corps plain out avoid tax payments as much as they can. Do you do the same?

    But to prove my point would be to quote books you would dismiss as rubbish. So no point going down that road.
    try me.
    spiral out wrote:

    What i don't get jlew is why you defent the system so much. I mean we live within it and we are both doing ok. But the difference between you and i is, that i want to see how it really works and you want to belive it works how you are told it works.
    wrong. I see how it works from experience. I work in the financial industry and have an economics degree. my life is very involved in how the american and world ecomony works.

    not because of how "I'm told" what does that even mean?
    spiral out wrote:
    You even believe all poor out of work people are lazy.
    no I dont. people who arent lazy and can not help themselves need our charity.
    spiral out wrote:
    It's a myth they peddle to get you to think that they are your enemy and not the the insanly rich.
    again, who is "they" ?
  • Abuskedti
    Abuskedti Posts: 1,917
    jlew24asu wrote:
    why?

    Many things have changed.. the whole makeup of our corporations - Multi nationals and with increased political power. In a capitalistic model - the market makes many decisions and corporations make the market.

    But its more than that.. I do agree that our way of live makes for freedom and innvation. But what are our brightest people being movitated to innovate?

    200 years ago we had basic needs. Shelter, food, health care, education, communication, security... Its save to say we have virtually mastered those problems with hard work and brilliant idea and technology advanced.

    Sadly in the new milenium, it is not really profitable to advance towards making those advances accessable to everyone. On the contrary, todays business world encourages our brightest to devise ways of shielding weath and deceiving the people for profit. Our advances are fundamentally pulling apart our country and economy rather than stregnthening it.

    this assumption of growth is obsolete in my opinion. Growth was natural in the early years and we expanded across the forntier and made new discoveries and solved the problems and met the needs of a growing population with unlimited and new resources. Absent a new frontier and new resources... growth must be created through deception and the developement of new faux needs.

    Another of our motivations for our brightests is millitary.. we develop ways to destroy things... The motivation to cooperate - work together - to find common goals is gone. It is just un Capitalistic - Un American..

    And because of that - we don't advance like we should. We can not expect our economy to continue to really grow when we don't have anywher to grow to and we don't have a common understanding of what we are growing towards.

    I believe this direction we have taken will strike its first devastating blow through the stock markets. Hard to say when.. but could well be in our lifetimes and it will be very difficult to overcome - may last a very long time.
  • gue_barium
    gue_barium Posts: 5,515
    Abuskedti wrote:
    Many things have changed.. the whole makeup of our corporations - Multi nationals and with increased political power. In a capitalistic model - the market makes many decisions and corporations make the market.

    But its more than that.. I do agree that our way of live makes for freedom and innvation. But what are our brightest people being movitated to innovate?

    200 years ago we had basic needs. Shelter, food, health care, education, communication, security... Its save to say we have virtually mastered those problems with hard work and brilliant idea and technology advanced.

    Sadly in the new milenium, it is not really profitable to advance towards making those advances accessable to everyone. On the contrary, todays business world encourages our brightest to devise ways of shielding weath and deceiving the people for profit. Our advances are fundamentally pulling apart our country and economy rather than stregnthening it.

    this assumption of growth is obsolete in my opinion. Growth was natural in the early years and we expanded across the forntier and made new discoveries and solved the problems and met the needs of a growing population with unlimited and new resources. Absent a new frontier and new resources... growth must be created through deception and the developement of new faux needs.

    Another of our motivations for our brightests is millitary.. we develop ways to destroy things... The motivation to cooperate - work together - to find common goals is gone. It is just un Capitalistic - Un American..

    And because of that - we don't advance like we should. We can not expect our economy to continue to really grow when we don't have anywher to grow to and we don't have a common understanding of what we are growing towards.

    I believe this direction we have taken will strike its first devastating blow through the stock markets. Hard to say when.. but could well be in our lifetimes and it will be very difficult to overcome - may last a very long time.


    Now, that makes some sense to me.
    all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
    except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
  • jlew24asu
    jlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    Abuskedti wrote:
    Many things have changed.. the whole makeup of our corporations - Multi nationals and with increased political power. In a capitalistic model - the market makes many decisions and corporations make the market.

    But its more than that.. I do agree that our way of live makes for freedom and innvation. But what are our brightest people being motivated to innovate?
    technology for 1. the possibilities are endless. what is with this give up attitude?

    http://www.dowjones.com/innovation/ei_winners_2006.html
    Abuskedti wrote:
    200 years ago we had basic needs. Shelter, food, health care, education, communication, security... Its save to say we have virtually mastered those problems with hard work and brilliant idea and technology advanced.

    Sadly in the new milenium, it is not really profitable to advance towards making those advances accessable to everyone. On the contrary, todays business world encourages our brightest to devise ways of shielding weath and deceiving the people for profit. Our advances are fundamentally pulling apart our country and economy rather than stregnthening it.
    this couldnt be farther from the truth. explain to me how advances are pulling apart this country?
    Abuskedti wrote:
    this assumption of growth is obsolete in my opinion. Growth was natural in the early years and we expanded across the forntier and made new discoveries and solved the problems and met the needs of a growing population with unlimited and new resources. Absent a new frontier and new resources... growth must be created through deception and the developement of new faux needs.
    did people stop having babies or something? and what is your obsession with the frontier ? we dont need to discover more land to grow.
    Abuskedti wrote:
    Another of our motivations for our brightests is millitary.. we develop ways to destroy things... The motivation to cooperate - work together - to find common goals is gone. It is just un Capitalistic - Un American..

    And because of that - we don't advance like we should. We can not expect our economy to continue to really grow when we don't have anywher to grow to and we don't have a common understanding of what we are growing towards.
    so since we have a strong military, you automatically assume we dont innovate and share common goals with the rest of the world? you mindset is frightening
    Abuskedti wrote:
    I believe this direction we have taken will strike its first devastating blow through the stock markets. Hard to say when.. but could well be in our lifetimes and it will be very difficult to overcome - may last a very long time.

    it really amazes me the amount of fearful people on this board. the only reason you have given for us not being able to grow is because we have already discovered Utah and the west.

    the economy is going to go through cycles. similar to what it did in 2000. remember that? I bet you thought the end was near. well guess what, 7 years later, we hit new all time highs.

    people are going to expand the american economy similar to the pace and trend we have seen over the past 100 years. there are so many advnaces yet to be made in technology, medicine, biotech, etc.

    the possibility are endless.
  • jlew24asu
    jlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    gue_barium wrote:
    Now, that makes some sense to me.

    not surprising coming from someone who admits to know nothing on the subject.
  • Abuskedti
    Abuskedti Posts: 1,917
    jlew24asu wrote:
    not surprising coming from someone who admits to know nothing on the subject.

    What subject.. are you still taking about sales?
  • jlew24asu
    jlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    Abuskedti wrote:
    What subject.. are you still taking about sales?

    sales? no, gue has been admitting all morning he has no idea about the economy, stock market, etc.
  • gue_barium
    gue_barium Posts: 5,515
    jlew24asu wrote:
    not surprising coming from someone who admits to know nothing on the subject.

    I do know that the greatest "material" resource is the land itself. The real estate. The "property". That's the bottom line of any country.
    all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
    except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
  • jlew24asu
    jlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    gue_barium wrote:
    I do know that the greatest "material" resource is the land itself. The real estate. The "property". That's the bottom line of any country.

    of course it is. and we have alot of it.
  • gue_barium
    gue_barium Posts: 5,515
    jlew24asu wrote:
    of course it is. and we have alot of it.

    Most Americans don't have any.
    all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
    except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
  • jlew24asu
    jlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    gue_barium wrote:
    Most Americans don't have any.

    how so?
  • Abuskedti
    Abuskedti Posts: 1,917
    jlew24asu wrote:
    sales? no, gue has been admitting all morning he has no idea about the economy, stock market, etc.

    The Stock Market... IS sales... nothing more.
  • jlew24asu
    jlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    Abuskedti wrote:
    The Stock Market... IS sales... nothing more.

    how so? and what does that even mean?

    buying stock gives you ownership of a company.

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