Many things have changed.. the whole makeup of our corporations - Multi nationals and with increased political power. In a capitalistic model - the market makes many decisions and corporations make the market.
But its more than that.. I do agree that our way of live makes for freedom and innvation. But what are our brightest people being motivated to innovate?
technology for 1. the possibilities are endless. what is with this give up attitude?
200 years ago we had basic needs. Shelter, food, health care, education, communication, security... Its save to say we have virtually mastered those problems with hard work and brilliant idea and technology advanced.
Sadly in the new milenium, it is not really profitable to advance towards making those advances accessable to everyone. On the contrary, todays business world encourages our brightest to devise ways of shielding weath and deceiving the people for profit. Our advances are fundamentally pulling apart our country and economy rather than stregnthening it.
this couldnt be farther from the truth. explain to me how advances are pulling apart this country?
this assumption of growth is obsolete in my opinion. Growth was natural in the early years and we expanded across the forntier and made new discoveries and solved the problems and met the needs of a growing population with unlimited and new resources. Absent a new frontier and new resources... growth must be created through deception and the developement of new faux needs.
did people stop having babies or something? and what is your obsession with the frontier ? we dont need to discover more land to grow.
Another of our motivations for our brightests is millitary.. we develop ways to destroy things... The motivation to cooperate - work together - to find common goals is gone. It is just un Capitalistic - Un American..
And because of that - we don't advance like we should. We can not expect our economy to continue to really grow when we don't have anywher to grow to and we don't have a common understanding of what we are growing towards.
so since we have a strong military, you automatically assume we dont innovate and share common goals with the rest of the world? you mindset is frightening
I believe this direction we have taken will strike its first devastating blow through the stock markets. Hard to say when.. but could well be in our lifetimes and it will be very difficult to overcome - may last a very long time.
it really amazes me the amount of fearful people on this board. the only reason you have given for us not being able to grow is because we have already discovered Utah and the west.
the economy is going to go through cycles. similar to what it did in 2000. remember that? I bet you thought the end was near. well guess what, 7 years later, we hit new all time highs.
people are going to expand the american economy similar to the pace and trend we have seen over the past 100 years. there are so many advnaces yet to be made in technology, medicine, biotech, etc.
Alright. I googled around and found that according to the census bureau something like 65% of Americans own a home. Personally, I have no idea who these people are.
There is something misleading about that figure though. Only somewhere between 30-40% of homeowners...not "Americans"...own their homes outright.
Alright. I googled around and found that according to the census bureau something like 65% of Americans own a home. Personally, I have no idea who these people are.
There is something misleading about that figure though. Only somewhere between 30-40% of homeowners...not "Americans"...own their homes outright.
I wonder how much of that 30-40% is rental property. Though that 65% may sound encouraging (I was surprised, to say the least), I don't think it paints the whole picture of real estate and the realistic chance of home ownership for most individual americans.
I wonder how much of that 30-40% is rental property. Though that 65% may sound encouraging (I was surprised, to say the least), I don't think it paints the whole picture of real estate and the realistic chance of home ownership for most individual americans.
well the majority do, which is a good sign. either way, there is alot of room to grow in this country. cities are expanding and there is alot of empty land to expand to if need be.
well the majority do, which is a good sign. either way, there is alot of room to grow in this country. cities are expanding and there is alot of empty land to expand to if need be.
Actually, the majority don't. Not outright, anyway. And of that 65%, a certain percentage has to fail in order for the banks to have their way.
There was a slight decline in homeownership rate in 2005 from the recent high recorded in 2004, according to the Housing Vacancy Survey, conducted by the US Census Bureau in conjunction with the Current Population Survey.
The home ownership rate for 2005 was 68.9%, down slightly from the recent high of 69.0% recorded in 2004. The 2004 rate was the highest rate since the Census Bureau began reporting these statistics in 1965.
By region, home ownership in 2005 was highest in the Midwest at 73.1%, followed by the South (70.8%), the Northeast (65.2%) and the West (64.4%).
The state with the highest home ownership rate in 2005 was West Virginia (81.3%), followed by Mississippi (78.8%) and Alabama (76.6%). The state with the lowest home ownership rate in 2005 was the District of Columbia (45.8%), followed by New York (54.8%) and California at 59.7%. Maps illustrating home ownership rate by state are as follows:
There was a slight decline in homeownership rate in 2005 from the recent high recorded in 2004, according to the Housing Vacancy Survey, conducted by the US Census Bureau in conjunction with the Current Population Survey.
The home ownership rate for 2005 was 68.9%, down slightly from the recent high of 69.0% recorded in 2004. The 2004 rate was the highest rate since the Census Bureau began reporting these statistics in 1965.
By region, home ownership in 2005 was highest in the Midwest at 73.1%, followed by the South (70.8%), the Northeast (65.2%) and the West (64.4%).
The state with the highest home ownership rate in 2005 was West Virginia (81.3%), followed by Mississippi (78.8%) and Alabama (76.6%). The state with the lowest home ownership rate in 2005 was the District of Columbia (45.8%), followed by New York (54.8%) and California at 59.7%. Maps illustrating home ownership rate by state are as follows:
It looks like a lot of people chained at the ankle, to me.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
again, what is your point? that we conquered the west?
Voting power? funny how an American would still believe in that when a significant majority of American's with voting power don't trust the President of their country.
Voting power to run the chicken's life? I can cut his head off, or keep it in the house as a pet, can use it to lay eggs, or make Chicken parmasian.
Do you have those options when you buy stock in Exxon?
A Stock Broker is the same as a convenience store owner selling lottey tickets. The store owner doesn't necessarily understand the probability or soundness of the purchase any more than the stock broker.
as for current "growth"? where does the additonal money go? mega million dollar compensation for the CEO that produce nothing? Mega millions to random pretty young girls to watch them sing in sexy clothes that produce nothing? Insurance companiesn that produce nothing? Lawyers that produce nothing?
really - what would growth be? people living in sky scrapers and travelling in solar powered GPC flying saucers?
the survival of our species requires our pulling back.. not plunging forward witout direction. We are depleting our planet. We have no backup plan. Our water supply for example might get diseased - perhaps on purpose but one of the billions of people living in poverty - powerless to make change any other way. What will happen to growth then? a planet full of thirsty people.
Humans will fail if we insist on perpetuating this culture of progress for the few with the right connections.
We can not grow when our motto is every man for himself. Growth being so many different things pulling in different directions. The thing we need now is to pull back, and our current society is not willing to do that. The reason they are not is because they are fed lies by those with the connections.. false assurances...
Capitalism is illogical and will be our downfall because we are afraid of each other.. we don't believe in our ability to govern
We are afraid of legislation for the good of mankind.. yet the market itself is filled with mountains of regulations and legislation...
we are a funny cult... pretty stupid and not ashamed to admit that we are incapable of making plans as a group.. The entire population has resigned to the fact that "government" is a bad thing and must be minimised.. when government is the process of making plans and working together.
we wont stop the collapse.. we will need it to step back, and we don't have the courage to do it before then.
Voting power? funny how an American would still believe in that when a significant majority of American's with voting power don't trust the President of their country.
Voting power to run the chicken's life? I can cut his head off, or keep it in the house as a pet, can use it to lay eggs, or make Chicken parmasian.
Do you have those options when you buy stock in Exxon?
A Stock Broker is the same as a convenience store owner selling lottey tickets. The store owner doesn't necessarily understand the probability or soundness of the purchase any more than the stock broker.
as for current "growth"? where does the additonal money go? mega million dollar compensation for the CEO that produce nothing? Mega millions to random pretty young girls to watch them sing in sexy clothes that produce nothing? Insurance companiesn that produce nothing? Lawyers that produce nothing?
really - what would growth be? people living in sky scrapers and travelling in solar powered GPC flying saucers?
the survival of our species requires our pulling back.. not plunging forward witout direction. We are depleting our planet. We have no backup plan. Our water supply for example might get diseased - perhaps on purpose but one of the billions of people living in poverty - powerless to make change any other way. What will happen to growth then? a planet full of thirsty people.
Humans will fail if we insist on perpetuating this culture of progress for the few with the right connections.
We can not grow when our motto is every man for himself. Growth being so many different things pulling in different directions. The thing we need now is to pull back, and our current society is not willing to do that. The reason they are not is because they are fed lies by those with the connections.. false assurances...
Capitalism is illogical and will be our downfall because we are afraid of each other.. we don't believe in our ability to govern
We are afraid of legislation for the good of mankind.. yet the market itself is filled with mountains of regulations and legislation...
we are a funny cult... pretty stupid and not ashamed to admit that we are incapable of making plans as a group.. The entire population has resigned to the fact that "government" is a bad thing and must be minimised.. when government is the process of making plans and working together.
we wont stop the collapse.. we will need it to step back, and we don't have the courage to do it before then.
This is an intersting post, because it contains a lot of ssense, esp the bits about stockbrokers not necessarily indertanding athe market, or what it is likely to do.
It also corectly points out that even big share traders don't realistically get to influence the companys they hold stock in.
Further it is tru that obscene amounts of money are spent on executives and pretty entertainers, and esp useless parasitic lawyers.
Biut tehn it all falls down, when you say capitalism is illogical. Capitalism i basically an espresison of competitiveness within a species, and that exists in every singel species. Any individual orgnism's worst enemy is another member of it's own species, because that is who is competting most direstly for available resources.
So, capitalism is not illogical, it is inevitable. How it occurs, or is expressed, however, is open to debate, and up for change. A stock market for example, is not a necessary component. Capitalism existed before the stock exchange, and will exist after.
Capitalism never really even died coompletely under Communist rule in Russia and China, it just morphed into different forms. People still bartered and traded, and looked for advantage, kept track of fear and favours, and struggled to do their best or not, just as they have always done everywhere.
My 2cents, the stock market is a flimsy house of cards, crashes every once in a while, depends on greed and belief to keep it going, lawyers are useless parasites, entertainers are a good part of our culture, but get paid way too much, so do pro sports people, fucking ridiculous.
This is an intersting post, because it contains a lot of ssense, esp the bits about stockbrokers not necessarily indertanding athe market, or what it is likely to do.
It also corectly points out that even big share traders don't realistically get to influence the companys they hold stock in.
Further it is tru that obscene amounts of money are spent on executives and pretty entertainers, and esp useless parasitic lawyers.
Biut tehn it all falls down, when you say capitalism is illogical. Capitalism i basically an espresison of competitiveness within a species, and that exists in every singel species. Any individual orgnism's worst enemy is another member of it's own species, because that is who is competting most direstly for available resources.
So, capitalism is not illogical, it is inevitable. How it occurs, or is expressed, however, is open to debate, and up for change. A stock market for example, is not a necessary component. Capitalism existed before the stock exchange, and will exist after.
Capitalism never really even died coompletely under Communist rule in Russia and China, it just morphed into different forms. People still bartered and traded, and looked for advantage, kept track of fear and favours, and struggled to do their best or not, just as they have always done everywhere.
My 2cents, the stock market is a flimsy house of cards, crashes every once in a while, depends on greed and belief to keep it going, lawyers are useless parasites, entertainers are a good part of our culture, but get paid way too much, so do pro sports people, fucking ridiculous.
ok, I can agree that capitalism is not illogical. I was more trying to say that as a nation we often let the marketplace decide significant things. There are many things that are of no interest to the market.
Declining resources, polution and long term preservation of things like water and air.. are of little interest to the marketplace.
in addition, starving and oppressed people are of no interest to the marketplace. and granted these things are of little interest to many people who are not oppressed or hungry...
basically individuals are of no interest to the marketplace.. the market place left unchecked will lead to something very much like a dictatorship. Once the majority of wealth is accumulated by one person - we have a dictator.
So yes, i agree that capitalism has some wonderful advantages. However, without some responsibility in areas that are not a priority of the marketplace - democracy will fall.
We are bacically believers that every individual has an equal vote .. capitalism is creating a democracy where the weight of your vote is directly proportional to your net worth.
Comments
http://www.dowjones.com/innovation/ei_winners_2006.html
this couldnt be farther from the truth. explain to me how advances are pulling apart this country?
did people stop having babies or something? and what is your obsession with the frontier ? we dont need to discover more land to grow.
so since we have a strong military, you automatically assume we dont innovate and share common goals with the rest of the world? you mindset is frightening
it really amazes me the amount of fearful people on this board. the only reason you have given for us not being able to grow is because we have already discovered Utah and the west.
the economy is going to go through cycles. similar to what it did in 2000. remember that? I bet you thought the end was near. well guess what, 7 years later, we hit new all time highs.
people are going to expand the american economy similar to the pace and trend we have seen over the past 100 years. there are so many advnaces yet to be made in technology, medicine, biotech, etc.
the possibility are endless.
not surprising coming from someone who admits to know nothing on the subject.
What subject.. are you still taking about sales?
sales? no, gue has been admitting all morning he has no idea about the economy, stock market, etc.
I do know that the greatest "material" resource is the land itself. The real estate. The "property". That's the bottom line of any country.
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of course it is. and we have alot of it.
Most Americans don't have any.
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how so?
The Stock Market... IS sales... nothing more.
how so? and what does that even mean?
buying stock gives you ownership of a company.
Its a giant infomercial..
buying chicken gives you ownership of a chicken.
really,
do you get voting power of the chicken?
can you elect people to run the chickens life?
again, what is your point? that we conquered the west?
Alright. I googled around and found that according to the census bureau something like 65% of Americans own a home. Personally, I have no idea who these people are.
There is something misleading about that figure though. Only somewhere between 30-40% of homeowners...not "Americans"...own their homes outright.
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seems like a nice amount to me.
I wonder how much of that 30-40% is rental property. Though that 65% may sound encouraging (I was surprised, to say the least), I don't think it paints the whole picture of real estate and the realistic chance of home ownership for most individual americans.
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except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
what are you getting at?
Not many people here actually own property/home.
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well the majority do, which is a good sign. either way, there is alot of room to grow in this country. cities are expanding and there is alot of empty land to expand to if need be.
Actually, the majority don't. Not outright, anyway. And of that 65%, a certain percentage has to fail in order for the banks to have their way.
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There was a slight decline in homeownership rate in 2005 from the recent high recorded in 2004.......
http://www.danter.com/statistics/homeown.htm
There was a slight decline in homeownership rate in 2005 from the recent high recorded in 2004, according to the Housing Vacancy Survey, conducted by the US Census Bureau in conjunction with the Current Population Survey.
The home ownership rate for 2005 was 68.9%, down slightly from the recent high of 69.0% recorded in 2004. The 2004 rate was the highest rate since the Census Bureau began reporting these statistics in 1965.
By region, home ownership in 2005 was highest in the Midwest at 73.1%, followed by the South (70.8%), the Northeast (65.2%) and the West (64.4%).
The state with the highest home ownership rate in 2005 was West Virginia (81.3%), followed by Mississippi (78.8%) and Alabama (76.6%). The state with the lowest home ownership rate in 2005 was the District of Columbia (45.8%), followed by New York (54.8%) and California at 59.7%. Maps illustrating home ownership rate by state are as follows:
It looks like a lot of people chained at the ankle, to me.
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do you own or rent?
I'm not looking for financial management information, thank you very much.
I already stated that I rent.
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you may think that owning a home is being ankle chained, but I see renting as having your hands on your ankles bent over. just sayin.
I call that stretching the hamstrings.
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Voting power? funny how an American would still believe in that when a significant majority of American's with voting power don't trust the President of their country.
Voting power to run the chicken's life? I can cut his head off, or keep it in the house as a pet, can use it to lay eggs, or make Chicken parmasian.
Do you have those options when you buy stock in Exxon?
A Stock Broker is the same as a convenience store owner selling lottey tickets. The store owner doesn't necessarily understand the probability or soundness of the purchase any more than the stock broker.
as for current "growth"? where does the additonal money go? mega million dollar compensation for the CEO that produce nothing? Mega millions to random pretty young girls to watch them sing in sexy clothes that produce nothing? Insurance companiesn that produce nothing? Lawyers that produce nothing?
really - what would growth be? people living in sky scrapers and travelling in solar powered GPC flying saucers?
the survival of our species requires our pulling back.. not plunging forward witout direction. We are depleting our planet. We have no backup plan. Our water supply for example might get diseased - perhaps on purpose but one of the billions of people living in poverty - powerless to make change any other way. What will happen to growth then? a planet full of thirsty people.
Humans will fail if we insist on perpetuating this culture of progress for the few with the right connections.
We can not grow when our motto is every man for himself. Growth being so many different things pulling in different directions. The thing we need now is to pull back, and our current society is not willing to do that. The reason they are not is because they are fed lies by those with the connections.. false assurances...
Capitalism is illogical and will be our downfall because we are afraid of each other.. we don't believe in our ability to govern
We are afraid of legislation for the good of mankind.. yet the market itself is filled with mountains of regulations and legislation...
we are a funny cult... pretty stupid and not ashamed to admit that we are incapable of making plans as a group.. The entire population has resigned to the fact that "government" is a bad thing and must be minimised.. when government is the process of making plans and working together.
we wont stop the collapse.. we will need it to step back, and we don't have the courage to do it before then.
This is an intersting post, because it contains a lot of ssense, esp the bits about stockbrokers not necessarily indertanding athe market, or what it is likely to do.
It also corectly points out that even big share traders don't realistically get to influence the companys they hold stock in.
Further it is tru that obscene amounts of money are spent on executives and pretty entertainers, and esp useless parasitic lawyers.
Biut tehn it all falls down, when you say capitalism is illogical. Capitalism i basically an espresison of competitiveness within a species, and that exists in every singel species. Any individual orgnism's worst enemy is another member of it's own species, because that is who is competting most direstly for available resources.
So, capitalism is not illogical, it is inevitable. How it occurs, or is expressed, however, is open to debate, and up for change. A stock market for example, is not a necessary component. Capitalism existed before the stock exchange, and will exist after.
Capitalism never really even died coompletely under Communist rule in Russia and China, it just morphed into different forms. People still bartered and traded, and looked for advantage, kept track of fear and favours, and struggled to do their best or not, just as they have always done everywhere.
My 2cents, the stock market is a flimsy house of cards, crashes every once in a while, depends on greed and belief to keep it going, lawyers are useless parasites, entertainers are a good part of our culture, but get paid way too much, so do pro sports people, fucking ridiculous.
ok, I can agree that capitalism is not illogical. I was more trying to say that as a nation we often let the marketplace decide significant things. There are many things that are of no interest to the market.
Declining resources, polution and long term preservation of things like water and air.. are of little interest to the marketplace.
in addition, starving and oppressed people are of no interest to the marketplace. and granted these things are of little interest to many people who are not oppressed or hungry...
basically individuals are of no interest to the marketplace.. the market place left unchecked will lead to something very much like a dictatorship. Once the majority of wealth is accumulated by one person - we have a dictator.
So yes, i agree that capitalism has some wonderful advantages. However, without some responsibility in areas that are not a priority of the marketplace - democracy will fall.
We are bacically believers that every individual has an equal vote .. capitalism is creating a democracy where the weight of your vote is directly proportional to your net worth.