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Ahhh Captalism

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    JamMastaEJamMastaE Posts: 444
    jlew24asu wrote:
    abu, I'm just glad I dont have your outlook on life and the markets. this place is depressing.

    then you are really in for a rude awakening!
    "In the beginning of a change the patriot is a scarce man, and brave, and hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot". Mark Twain


    "I would rather die on my feet than to live on my knees."
    Emiliano Zapata
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    jlew24asujlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    JamMastaE wrote:
    then you are really in for a rude awakening!

    I really wish you would short the market. do you know what that means? put your money where your mouth is tough guy.
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    AbuskedtiAbuskedti Posts: 1,917
    jlew24asu wrote:
    abu, I'm just glad I dont have your outlook on life and the markets. this place is depressing.

    Why is it depressing. We need direction - a change. there is a challange before us. When we start looking at it realistically, and stop covering it up with repeated false representation on the television news and by our politicians.. once we understand.. we are fully capable of making it better.
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    JamMastaEJamMastaE Posts: 444
    jlew24asu wrote:
    I really wish you would short the market. do you know what that means? put your money where your mouth is tough guy.


    sorry,to invest into suffering is evil.blood money.typical wall street.not for me.
    "In the beginning of a change the patriot is a scarce man, and brave, and hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot". Mark Twain


    "I would rather die on my feet than to live on my knees."
    Emiliano Zapata
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    jlew24asujlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    JamMastaE wrote:
    sorry,to invest into suffering is evil.blood money.typical wall street.not for me.

    Fuck dude, ignorance is bliss I guess. its amazing how you have no idea what you are talking about but since you read some article, from god knows where by god knows who. you suck it right up.

    learn what short selling is. then maybe we can have an intelligent conversation about the market. but I doubt it. you are really making yourself looks bad. hell, maybe its the look you are going for.

    http://www.investopedia.com/terms/s/shortselling.asp
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    JamMastaEJamMastaE Posts: 444
    jlew24asu wrote:
    Fuck dude, ignorance is bliss I guess. its amazing how you have no idea what you are talking about but since you read some article, from god knows where by god knows who. you suck it right up.

    learn what short selling is. then maybe we can have an intelligent conversation about the market. but I doubt it. you are really making yourself looks bad. hell, maybe its the look you are going for.

    http://www.investopedia.com/terms/s/shortselling.asp

    OK oh guru of finance,we'll see how fucking smart you are when your dollar is worth less than a peso.
    and why aren't you rich if you know the market so well?
    "In the beginning of a change the patriot is a scarce man, and brave, and hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot". Mark Twain


    "I would rather die on my feet than to live on my knees."
    Emiliano Zapata
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    jlew24asujlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    JamMastaE wrote:
    OK oh guru of finance,we'll see how fucking smart you are when your dollar is worth less than a peso.
    and why aren't you rich if you know the market so well?

    I didnt. you did. I just happen to be smart enough to know something simple as short selling.

    you are the one who claims to know what the market is going to do.. answer me this.

    will the stock market collapse in the near future?
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    AbuskedtiAbuskedti Posts: 1,917
    jlew24asu wrote:
    Fuck dude, ignorance is bliss I guess. its amazing how you have no idea what you are talking about but since you read some article, from god knows where by god knows who. you suck it right up.

    learn what short selling is. then maybe we can have an intelligent conversation about the market. but I doubt it. you are really making yourself looks bad. hell, maybe its the look you are going for.

    http://www.investopedia.com/terms/s/shortselling.asp

    PS Stock Brokers are a great drain on productivity and growth. The also manufacture misinformation - motivated by the greatest possible number of sales of stock.

    The business sells the stock but once to generate capital.. after that - it is bought and sold by people with little concern or understanding of the business it represents.

    Not to mention they take from the pool of capital without producing a damn thing.
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    AbuskedtiAbuskedti Posts: 1,917
    jlew24asu wrote:
    I didnt. you did. I just happen to be smart enough to know something simple as short selling.

    you are the one who claims to know what the market is going to do.. answer me this.

    will the stock market collapse in the near future?

    He he, you keep bragging about your knowlege of sales.... We know you understand the business of peddling stocks to gamblers.
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    lucylespianlucylespian Posts: 2,403
    Abuskedti wrote:
    ok, I can agree that capitalism is not illogical. I was more trying to say that as a nation we often let the marketplace decide significant things. There are many things that are of no interest to the market.

    Declining resources, polution and long term preservation of things like water and air.. are of little interest to the marketplace.

    in addition, starving and oppressed people are of no interest to the marketplace. and granted these things are of little interest to many people who are not oppressed or hungry...

    basically individuals are of no interest to the marketplace.. the market place left unchecked will lead to something very much like a dictatorship. Once the majority of wealth is accumulated by one person - we have a dictator.

    So yes, i agree that capitalism has some wonderful advantages. However, without some responsibility in areas that are not a priority of the marketplace - democracy will fall.

    We are bacically believers that every individual has an equal vote .. capitalism is creating a democracy where the weight of your vote is directly proportional to your net worth.

    Now see that sounds a lot more like thinking, and less like ideology.
    I'm in complete agreemen with you that the stockmarket is laargely a parasitic thing. It has no actual productivity in itself, but seems to absorb an obscene amount of wealth.
    Having said that, it serves different purposes, but inadvedantly. It is self-interested. Any useful purpose it serves is incidental.
    hey, to the stock market guy, jlew, if stock brokers like yourself are so clever, then why were they all jumping out windows in 1987, and why is hostoyr full of stock market busts like the great railroad scam, or the tulip futures scam ?
    Easy answer, pure greed is the primary driver, sense has no place.
    Music is not a competetion.
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    lucylespianlucylespian Posts: 2,403
    Abuskedti wrote:
    He he, you keep bragging about your knowlege of sales.... We know you understand the business of peddling stocks to gamblers.


    It's funny, when I invest my retirement funds in things like horses the auditor frowns a bit sometimes. I just say, man, putting it into stocks is no different to going to the casino with it.
    So far, Ive done better out of horses.
    Music is not a competetion.
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    spiral outspiral out Posts: 1,052
    jlew24asu wrote:
    I really wish you would short the market. do you know what that means? put your money where your mouth is tough guy.

    Dude you crack me up, i'm not convinced you really know what your talking about. In the markets as a whole that is.

    You seem to think everything is rosy, but from what i have read from other people in the money business they are not so convinced there won't be a crash.

    And if banks are saying panic then i think it would be naive to think things couldn't get worse.
    Keep on rockin in the free world!!!!

    The economy has polarized to the point where the wealthiest 10% now own 85% of the nation’s wealth. Never before have the bottom 90% been so highly indebted, so dependent on the wealthy.
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    spiral outspiral out Posts: 1,052
    Abuskedti wrote:
    ok, I can agree that capitalism is not illogical. I was more trying to say that as a nation we often let the marketplace decide significant things. There are many things that are of no interest to the market.

    Declining resources, polution and long term preservation of things like water and air.. are of little interest to the marketplace.

    in addition, starving and oppressed people are of no interest to the marketplace. and granted these things are of little interest to many people who are not oppressed or hungry...

    basically individuals are of no interest to the marketplace.. the market place left unchecked will lead to something very much like a dictatorship. Once the majority of wealth is accumulated by one person - we have a dictator.

    So yes, i agree that capitalism has some wonderful advantages. However, without some responsibility in areas that are not a priority of the marketplace - democracy will fall.

    We are bacically believers that every individual has an equal vote .. capitalism is creating a democracy where the weight of your vote is directly proportional to your net worth.

    You hit the nail on the head the big problem with capitalism is the fact that there is no real responsibility, they will abuse the system as much as possible to make more profit.

    The corporations responsibility first and formost is to the shareholder and making them a bigger profit each year.

    Goverments need to stop letting corporations run the country and set down some good rules and regulations for the companies to run by.

    Then we may be in a better position.
    Keep on rockin in the free world!!!!

    The economy has polarized to the point where the wealthiest 10% now own 85% of the nation’s wealth. Never before have the bottom 90% been so highly indebted, so dependent on the wealthy.
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    lucylespianlucylespian Posts: 2,403
    spiral out wrote:
    You hit the nail on the head the big problem with capitalism is the fact that there is no real responsibility, they will abuse the system as much as possible to make more profit.

    The corporations responsibility first and formost is to the shareholder and making them a bigger profit each year.

    Goverments need to stop letting corporations run the country and set down some good rules and regulations for the companies to run by.

    Then we may be in a better position.

    Whereas communism just abused everything else, including having a horrendous impact on the environment, and obliterating individual rights.
    Art was slaughtered, music barely existed, creative thought would get you shot, tortured or imprisoned.
    Music is not a competetion.
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    spiral outspiral out Posts: 1,052
    Whereas communism just abused everything else, including having a horrendous impact on the environment, and obliterating individual rights.
    Art was slaughtered, music barely existed, creative thought would get you shot, tortured or imprisoned.

    Aha, i'm sure communism did but i'm not really making a case for communism. Just saying that corps need to be bought under control for things to work out better.

    At the moment they are gaining more and more control of our lives and i don't agree with it. While we are here sitting pretty the majority of the people in the world are not.

    General motors would sooner put a car on sale that they know to be faulty because it will be cheaper to pay out damages than to correct the fault. Now are you telling me that is good practise?

    The world is not black and white and communsim or capitalism are not the only answers. And to believe they are is to limit are view.
    Keep on rockin in the free world!!!!

    The economy has polarized to the point where the wealthiest 10% now own 85% of the nation’s wealth. Never before have the bottom 90% been so highly indebted, so dependent on the wealthy.
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    lucylespianlucylespian Posts: 2,403
    spiral out wrote:
    Aha, i'm sure communism did but i'm not really making a case for communism. Just saying that corps need to be bought under control for things to work out better.

    At the moment they are gaining more and more control of our lives and i don't agree with it. While we are here sitting pretty the majority of the people in the world are not.

    General motors would sooner put a car on sale that they know to be faulty because it will be cheaper to pay out damages than to correct the fault. Now are you telling me that is good practise?

    The world is not black and white and communsim or capitalism are not the only answers. And to believe they are is to limit are view.

    Hey, I am just batting for capitalism on principle. In any system that involves humans, ther will be people doing crappy stuff. That does not mean the system is bad. Also, US made stuff is often of dubious quality, so I prefer to buy Asian. It's much more consistent. Your companies get away with murder because of partriotism and over-protection. The Asians don't, and value their rep way too much. I would not buy GM or Ford, I'll take Toyota or Mazda any day.
    Except for Gibson, but even tehn, my Japanese Gretsch and ESP guitars are better made. Les PAuls are just the pig's testicles though !!!
    Music is not a competetion.
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    spiral outspiral out Posts: 1,052
    Hey, I am just batting for capitalism on principle. In any system that involves humans, ther will be people doing crappy stuff. That does not mean the system is bad. Also, US made stuff is often of dubious quality, so I prefer to buy Asian. It's much more consistent. Your companies get away with murder because of partriotism and over-protection. The Asians don't, and value their rep way too much. I would not buy GM or Ford, I'll take Toyota or Mazda any day.
    Except for Gibson, but even tehn, my Japanese Gretsch and ESP guitars are better made. Les PAuls are just the pig's testicles though !!!

    On principle i agree with you but in practise it is not working, (well its working for the few) it's just exploiting the majority of people. We need to figure out a way to stop these companies from exploiting everyone, but until then i will not say that capiltalism is a good thing.

    I'm from the UK by the way. :)
    Keep on rockin in the free world!!!!

    The economy has polarized to the point where the wealthiest 10% now own 85% of the nation’s wealth. Never before have the bottom 90% been so highly indebted, so dependent on the wealthy.
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    AbuskedtiAbuskedti Posts: 1,917
    spiral out wrote:
    On principle i agree with you but in practise it is not working, (well its working for the few) it's just exploiting the majority of people. We need to figure out a way to stop these companies from exploiting everyone, but until then i will not say that capiltalism is a good thing.

    I'm from the UK by the way. :)

    I'm from the US :). Ok lets not give it a name. Labeling from models of the past tends to prevent rational thought. We do need to make some changes.
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    lucylespianlucylespian Posts: 2,403
    spiral out wrote:
    On principle i agree with you but in practise it is not working, (well its working for the few) it's just exploiting the majority of people. We need to figure out a way to stop these companies from exploiting everyone, but until then i will not say that capiltalism is a good thing.

    I'm from the UK by the way. :)

    Well, I guess it depends on your perspective. Capitalism is surely working in Australia, for everybody. People either work or a supported by a welfare system which relies on the success of the capitalist economy to be viable.
    People die of stupidity and self-abuse here, but not of hunger or cold.

    Socialist governments here always reduce overall wealth, and clearly made polarization of wealth much worse.
    Wealth levrls will always follow a bell curve, they have to. It's just a matter of where the mean is. For any country to be wealthy, there must be wealthy individuals. I can see that upsets you, but it's true all the same !!
    Music is not a competetion.
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    spiral outspiral out Posts: 1,052
    Well, I guess it depends on your perspective. Capitalism is surely working in Australia, for everybody. People either work or a supported by a welfare system which relies on the success of the capitalist economy to be viable.
    People die of stupidity and self-abuse here, but not of hunger or cold.

    Socialist governments here always reduce overall wealth, and clearly made polarization of wealth much worse.
    Wealth levrls will always follow a bell curve, they have to. It's just a matter of where the mean is. For any country to be wealthy, there must be wealthy individuals. I can see that upsets you, but it's true all the same !!

    No no wealth doesn't upset me pure greed and steping on people does. I don't mind if someone has more money than me, if i had the desire to earn more i would. But i prefer to take life easy.

    I'm surprised you have goverments that actually produce different affects, as far as i can see here they are just puppets lead by the same master and i wouldn't waste my time voting for either.

    Tony Blair was nothing more than a tory.
    Keep on rockin in the free world!!!!

    The economy has polarized to the point where the wealthiest 10% now own 85% of the nation’s wealth. Never before have the bottom 90% been so highly indebted, so dependent on the wealthy.
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    KannKann Posts: 1,146
    The problem is that with the ussr's and the general communism downfall we (I mean we as occidental societies) just rejected the idea of socialism altogether.

    While we embraced capitalism we kept giving socialism a bad name due to the failure of so called communist countries. As a result we practise a ridiculously dangerous economical system which cares not for the fact that the world has limited ressources and that we cannot consume ad infinitume (which is the basis in a capitalist economy) or trivial things like that. And we do this without any debate whatsoever because the other economical and/or political systems failed.
    Social darwinism is still a vague idea but the further we go the closer we get to it and I think it's one of the reasons why our system is that dangerous.

    (And no, Tony Blair or other european socialists do not practise socialism, barely a watered down version of capitalism to please the masses from time to time.)
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    jlew24asujlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    spiral out wrote:
    Dude you crack me up, i'm not convinced you really know what your talking about. In the markets as a whole that is.
    really? whys that? I keep asking if anyone knows what short selling is. apparently you dont either. short selling is a bet against the market from going up.
    spiral out wrote:
    You seem to think everything is rosy, but from what i have read from other people in the money business they are not so convinced there won't be a crash. And if banks are saying panic then i think it would be naive to think things couldn't get worse.
    you really dont read my posts do you. I have said many times the market is going to be volatile with big swings in the near term. the market will correct itself from the credit problems. you probably dont know what a market correction is either.

    http://www.investorwords.com/1142/correction.html
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    jlew24asujlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    JamMastaE wrote:
    OK oh guru of finance,we'll see how fucking smart you are when your dollar is worth less than a peso.
    please read.
    http://www.chicagofed.org/consumer_information/strong_dollar_weak_dollar.cfm
    JamMastaE wrote:
    and why aren't you rich if you know the market so well?
    I am doing very well.
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    spiral outspiral out Posts: 1,052
    jlew24asu wrote:
    really? whys that? I keep asking if anyone knows what short selling is. apparently you dont either. short selling is a bet against the market from going up.

    Not really sure what knowing about short selling has got to do with understanding the markets as a whole, which i still don't think you do.

    And like i said i like your optimism, but i don't see it echoed so comfortably by other people who work in the money industry.
    Keep on rockin in the free world!!!!

    The economy has polarized to the point where the wealthiest 10% now own 85% of the nation’s wealth. Never before have the bottom 90% been so highly indebted, so dependent on the wealthy.
  • Options
    jlew24asujlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    spiral out wrote:
    Not really sure what knowing about short selling has got to do with understanding the markets as a whole, which i still don't think you do.
    again, how so? or you just simply like to insult me so you can feel better about yourself. trust me, I work in the financial industry and trade dow jones futures contracts on the side. I know a thing or two.
    spiral out wrote:
    And like i said i like your optimism, but i don't see it echoed so comfortably by other people who work in the money industry.
    obviously you dont follow what people in the "money industry" (whatever that is) are saying.

    http://www.cnbc.com/id/20304874/site/14081545/ this is one example. there are many others. the market is in a state of uncertainty. Opinions are mixed but for the most part, the markets can overcome the current credit problems. much like they did when the market "corrected" itself in 2000. rememeber that? 7 years later, after steady growth, the market hit new all time highs.

    you just really get a hard on to see america fail, so everytime roland says the market is going to crash, you suck it up. do you own research, maybe you'll find a better understanding of what is going on.
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    spiral outspiral out Posts: 1,052
    jlew24asu wrote:
    obviously you dont follow what people in the "money industry" (whatever that is) are saying.

    Again i will say people who work in actual banks not just some news website that you keep linking too. So surely if you are in the business you say you are you would have inside info. But so far everything you have said has been from a news website. So excuse me for really not taking what you say to be gospel.
    jlew24asu wrote:
    you just really get a hard on to see america fail, so everytime roland says the market is going to crash, you suck it up. do you own research, maybe you'll find a better understanding of what is going on.

    You really have a narrow world view if you think America is the only one affected, see i talk global you talk America, i hate to break it to you buddy but there are other countries in the stock market not just America. Hell NEWSFLASH you know what there are other countries in the world.

    And if you would like to cast your mind back a couple of months, i mentioned some things about your economy, due to my reading up on things affecting the UK interest rate and house prices and you were quite sure america was the stongest it has ever been. Now i don't really see what roland has do with it. Maybe you would like to elaborate.
    Keep on rockin in the free world!!!!

    The economy has polarized to the point where the wealthiest 10% now own 85% of the nation’s wealth. Never before have the bottom 90% been so highly indebted, so dependent on the wealthy.
  • Options
    jlew24asujlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    spiral out wrote:
    Again i will say people who work in actual banks not just some news website that you keep linking too. So surely if you are in the business you say you are you would have inside info. But so far everything you have said has been from a news website. So excuse me for really not taking what you say to be gospel.
    haha "actual people in banks" thats just too funny. so you have a teller friend who knows all huh?

    the links I post are interviews with financial professionals. I posted a link from the chicago federal reserve, investor tools, (these are not news websites) and CNBC, which is a news website but did you know they spend ALL day talking about the markets, and NOTHING else. how can they not be creditable? they know alot more then your teller friend.

    do you realize how dumb you sound? trust me, I own you on this topic. I dont give a fuck who you know.
    spiral out wrote:
    You really have a narrow world view if you think America is the only one affected, see i talk global you talk America, i hate to break it to you buddy but there are other countries in the stock market not just America. Hell NEWSFLASH you know what there are other countries in the world.

    And if you would like to cast your mind back a couple of months, i mentioned some things about your economy, due to my reading up on things affecting the UK interest rate and house prices and you were quite sure america was the stongest it has ever been. Now i don't really see what roland has do with it. Maybe you would like to elaborate.


    yea yea I know. I have no idea about the rest of the world.
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    spiral outspiral out Posts: 1,052
    jlew24asu wrote:

    trust me, I own you on this topic. I dont give a fuck who you know.

    Lol thats nice, but i still don't think you know to much. And you still haven't shown that you do.

    Oh and i don't know any bank tellers but thanks for the assumption.
    Keep on rockin in the free world!!!!

    The economy has polarized to the point where the wealthiest 10% now own 85% of the nation’s wealth. Never before have the bottom 90% been so highly indebted, so dependent on the wealthy.
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    jlew24asujlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    spiral out wrote:
    Lol thats nice, but i still don't think you know to much. And you still haven't shown that you do.
    we both know thats not true. you just wont give credit where credit is do because you dont like me personally.
    spiral out wrote:
    Oh and i don't know any bank tellers but thanks for the assumption.
    so you dont see how dumb you sound?

    you know "actual people in banks"? feel free to elaborate at any time.
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    gue_bariumgue_barium Posts: 5,515
    Wall Street is Evil.

    all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
    except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
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