I always wonder if the people so unhappy with capitalism would be happy to do without the good and great things that capitalism has enabled in our lives. They complain but they don't move to communes. Some people just like being unhappy I think.
Its great today for bunches of us - me included.
its horrible for many millions
but we have no plausable future. To me that is deal breaker. To many it is not
Probably not, but what would you suppose the causes are?
probably the same feeling I get when I have a day off work. a nice relaxing, non stressful feeling. those people want that to continue and are ok with taking handouts from the government instead of working. not a bad deal I guess.
I prove you wrong every time I make a decision in life. Again, you only see what you want to see, the truth scares you. The truth of freewill is too much responsibility for many to face, so they become irrational. Don't worry it's a common ailment so you shouldn't feel bad about having it.
Decision does not equate to free-will. I think your knowledge of the topic is rather shallow if that's what you think.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
And capitalism keeps the rich incredibly rich at the expense of the poor.
There must be a nice medium out there. But that would take decent human beings to create it so i guess it won't be happeneing anytime soon.
Actually, we have that medium right now. The U.S. and Europe (and a lot of other places) have mixed economies. We are not strictly capitalistic, though we like to call ourselves that (kind of like saying we're not a pure democracy, though we refer to ourselves as a democratic society). Not only does the State have ultimate control over the economy, but we also have socialist programs like Social Security, welfare, minimum wage, hell even things like roads, fire departments, police forces, and waste management. We also have rather significant regulations on what we can do with land in this country.
It's a great system in theory, and a decent one in practice - unlike pure capitalism or pure communism which both sound great in theory, but suck in practice. We still have considerable problems - and I mean considerable - but it's a far more adaptable system than anything else humans have tried.
I once read someone on this board describe it as Capitalist means to Socialist ends. A good description, and something I can live with provided it remains open - provided everyone can partake (and there's were some of those considerable problems come in).
probably the same feeling I get when I have a day off work. a nice relaxing, non stressful feeling. those people want that to continue and are ok with taking handouts from the government instead of working. not a bad deal I guess.
So what makes you different?
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
I wake up and go to work everyday. I work my ass off. I dont want handouts from anybody.
I actually get pleasure out of accomplishing something due to hard work. they dont.
see the difference?
No, those are phenomenological differences, I'm interested in the causal ontology.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
Decision does not equate to free-will. I think your knowledge of the topic is rather shallow if that's what you think.
I determine my life. It's my choice to be who I am. I stopped blaming others a long time ago. In other words I grew up. Taking responsibility for my actions is a little overwhelming at times but is more than paid back by enjoying my actions. I refuse to live my life by your life limiting paradigm. I'm sorry that you can't accept the truth.
“One good thing about music,
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
I determine my life. It's my choice to be who I am. I stopped blaming others a long time ago. In other words I grew up. Taking responsibility for my actions is a little overwhelming at times but is more than paid back by enjoying my actions. I refuse to live my life by your life limiting paradigm. I'm sorry that you can't accept the truth.
Some just don't give a fuck. They weren't designed that way. They chose to become that way.
"They weren't designed that way." "They chose to become that way."
The first sentence describes design as controlling their decisions, but then you contradict that by saying they made a choice, I'm assuming via free-will.
It sounds like you are arguing with yourself on this one.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
I determine my life. It's my choice to be who I am. I stopped blaming others a long time ago. In other words I grew up. Taking responsibility for my actions is a little overwhelming at times but is more than paid back by enjoying my actions. I refuse to live my life by your life limiting paradigm. I'm sorry that you can't accept the truth.
Why? Why is it your choice? How did you get the choice and what caused you to choose differently?
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
so do you believe that our economy will be sunk in the next couple of months just asking a ?? i don't know to much about the market at all .....
yes and no. the markets will correct themselves from this credit mess. and the markets will also see extreme volatility, like seen today. today was one the of craziest days I have ever seen.
the fundamentals are still strong however. and we would need to down over 1000 points more for the market to go into a recession, I dont see that happening at all.
We all have the choice. I just chose to embrace what others would run from.
God and love.
So, God and Love do not cause other people to choose as you did. Why not?
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
you will notice - influential businessmen one by one will start to give a bad outlook on the future of the market.
to be sure, before they do, they will sell a good portion of their stocks and advise theirs to do the same.. they make the public negative outlook. This in hopes to scare other investors out - lowering prices. so they can.. at just the right time.. come back in and subsequently give positives reports - helping the market to go back up.. earning money for them.
That's why I like to buy more stocks when the market is low.
The only people we should try to get even with...
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
So, God and Love do not cause other people to choose as you did. Why not?
We take from God and love as we choose to. Some may not look to God and love when making choices. We all have freewill after all. I can look to God and love and still make poor choices because ultimately I make the choice but it's where I'm still going to look now and in the future. For me it's the best place to look, you may have other places to look, the 'lazy' person may look somewhere else all together or just deny that they have a choice.
“One good thing about music,
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
and some people are straight up lazy. sorry, im not interested in supporting them
Therein lies the difference between left and right in this type of discussion. Not what we think of the market, so much, but more simply what we think of the poor (and sometimes how much we like perpetual aristocracy, but that is a different discussion).
Yeah, you can find lazy people. Your statement, "and some people are stright up lazy" is true. But the implication (backed up by a previous post where you actually say poverty is caused by laziness) is that all the poor are lazy. I just don't think that that is true. With all that capitalism has to offer, it also pretty much guarantees a wide income gap and even runs better with a certain amount of unemployment. When last I checked, most people on Welfare are there for less than two years. They get their little safety net, get on their feet, and in many cases never go back. My wife was on welfare when she was in about 1st grade. For a year or two. She (edit: her family) never went back. There were a number of reasons for being on Welfare, and I promise you that lazyness is not a part of it.
Someone has to fail in this system. Someone has to take the shit job and, frankly, someone has to be unemployed. If we all take the right steps to succeed, the "failures" will just be better prepared failures. Hard work for all does not insure financial security, or even stability, for all.
While poverty HAS to exist in capitalism, the reasons for WHO are impoverished are plentiful. Lazyness is a part of it, but I would hazard to say a smaller part of it than some think. I think that most of us (myself included) cannot imagine growing up in a culture of poverty and hopelessness, where life is about getting by, as opposed to success. It's a different world. Does poverty tend to breed poverty because of lazyness or are there other factors? Do blacks tend to be more impoverished than whites because they are lazier (actually another thread on this board came up with a resounding "yes")?
People that want to pull their own weight are deserving of a little push when times are tough--at least that's how I feel. And most people, even those who do not have any money, want to pull their own weight.
I cannot come up with a new sig till I get this egg off my face.
We take from God and love as we choose to. Some may not look to God and love when making choices. We all have freewill after all. I can look to God and love and still make poor choices because ultimately I make the choice but it's where I'm still going to look now and in the future. For me it's the best place to look, you may have other places to look, the 'lazy' person may look somewhere else all together or just deny that they have a choice.
I don't look to God at all. It's a wonder I'm not homeless.
I cannot come up with a new sig till I get this egg off my face.
Therein lies the difference between left and right in this type of discussion. Not what we think of the market, so much, but more simply what we think of the poor (and sometimes how much we like perpetual aristocracy, but that is a different discussion).
Yeah, you can find lazy people. Your statement, "and some people are stright up lazy" is true. But the implication (backed up by a previous post where you actually say poverty is caused by laziness) is that all the poor are lazy. I just don't think that that is true. With all that capitalism has to offer, it also pretty much guarantees a wide income gap and even runs better with a certain amount of unemployment. When last I checked, most people on Welfare are there for less than two years. They get their little safety net, get on their feet, and in many cases never go back. My wife was on welfare when she was in about 1st grade. For a year or two. She never went back. There were a number of reasons for being on Welfare, and I promise you that lazyness is not a part of it.
Someone has to fail in this system. Someone has to take the shit job and, frankly, someone has to be unemployed. If we all take the right steps to succeed, the "failures" will just be better prepared failures. Hard work for all does not insure financial security, or even stability for all.
While poverty HAS to exist in capitalism, the reasons for WHO are impoverished are plentiful. Lazyness is a part of it, but I would hazard to say a smaller part of it than some think. I think that most of us (myself included) cannot imagine growing up in a culture of poverty and hopelessness, where life is about getting by, as opposed to success. It's a different world. Does poverty tend to breed poverty because of lazyness or are there other factors? Do blacks tend to be more impoverished than whites because they are lazier (actually another thread on this board came up with a resounding "yes")?
People that want to pull their own weight are deserving of a little push when times are tough--at least that's how I feel. And most people, even those who do not have any money, want to pull their own weight.
this is now a left and right issue? and no I dont think ALL people are lazy.
We take from God and love as we choose to. Some may not look to God and love when making choices. We all have freewill after all. I can look to God and love and still make poor choices because ultimately I make the choice but it's where I'm still going to look now and in the future. For me it's the best place to look, you may have other places to look, the 'lazy' person may look somewhere else all together or just deny that they have a choice.
You haven't actually explained your decisions or free-will.
All you have said is "I make the choice" I asked why you make different choices and you said "God and Love" and then you said that there would be variation in those who look to "God and Love" because of free-will.
So basically what you are saying is that there is never a cause for your decisions. You didn't buy that MP3 player because it had more features, or a cheaper price. You didn't take that job because it offered you more bennefits or a greater salary. You didn't rent that car because of it's gas mileage. You have free-will, so your decisions are without cause.
You don't feel attracted to beautiful women, and you certainly wouldn't use attractivness to affect your dating preferences. In-fact your dating preferences are completely without cause and you choose who to date based entirely on nothing but free-will. No variables affect your decisions except your own free-will.
That is what you are saying to me. If you had the choice between two very nice women, but one was ugly and the other was gorgeous, you would choose the gorgeous one. That is because your decisions are caused! In that particular example, your decision would be caused by the visual stimulus the options had to offer. All of your decisions are made based on their merits and the predictable outcomes of your decisions weighed with your moral values you've obtained through a history of reinforcement.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
I don't look to God at all. It's a wonder I'm not homeless.
Where did I ever come even remotely close to saying my way was the best or only way? I was asked how I came to my decisions not to judge others decisions.
With your reading comprehension skills it may be more of a wonder you're not homeless though. Thank God for smart wives.
“One good thing about music,
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
Comments
Its great today for bunches of us - me included.
its horrible for many millions
but we have no plausable future. To me that is deal breaker. To many it is not
probably the same feeling I get when I have a day off work. a nice relaxing, non stressful feeling. those people want that to continue and are ok with taking handouts from the government instead of working. not a bad deal I guess.
Decision does not equate to free-will. I think your knowledge of the topic is rather shallow if that's what you think.
It's a great system in theory, and a decent one in practice - unlike pure capitalism or pure communism which both sound great in theory, but suck in practice. We still have considerable problems - and I mean considerable - but it's a far more adaptable system than anything else humans have tried.
I once read someone on this board describe it as Capitalist means to Socialist ends. A good description, and something I can live with provided it remains open - provided everyone can partake (and there's were some of those considerable problems come in).
So what makes you different?
I wake up and go to work everyday. I work my ass off. I dont want handouts from anybody.
I actually get pleasure out of accomplishing something due to hard work. they dont.
see the difference?
No, those are phenomenological differences, I'm interested in the causal ontology.
supercalifragilisticexpialidocious
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
I like you surferdude
"They weren't designed that way." "They chose to become that way."
The first sentence describes design as controlling their decisions, but then you contradict that by saying they made a choice, I'm assuming via free-will.
It sounds like you are arguing with yourself on this one.
Why? Why is it your choice? How did you get the choice and what caused you to choose differently?
there I was talking about capitalism.
know shit.. guess I don't know the same things as you???
ah my bad. yea I know plenty of the markets. I do it for a living.
so do you believe that our economy will be sunk in the next couple of months just asking a ?? i don't know to much about the market at all .....
yes and no. the markets will correct themselves from this credit mess. and the markets will also see extreme volatility, like seen today. today was one the of craziest days I have ever seen.
the fundamentals are still strong however. and we would need to down over 1000 points more for the market to go into a recession, I dont see that happening at all.
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
So, God and Love do not cause other people to choose as you did. Why not?
That's why I like to buy more stocks when the market is low.
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
buy low, sell high. good strategy you have there!
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
Therein lies the difference between left and right in this type of discussion. Not what we think of the market, so much, but more simply what we think of the poor (and sometimes how much we like perpetual aristocracy, but that is a different discussion).
Yeah, you can find lazy people. Your statement, "and some people are stright up lazy" is true. But the implication (backed up by a previous post where you actually say poverty is caused by laziness) is that all the poor are lazy. I just don't think that that is true. With all that capitalism has to offer, it also pretty much guarantees a wide income gap and even runs better with a certain amount of unemployment. When last I checked, most people on Welfare are there for less than two years. They get their little safety net, get on their feet, and in many cases never go back. My wife was on welfare when she was in about 1st grade. For a year or two. She (edit: her family) never went back. There were a number of reasons for being on Welfare, and I promise you that lazyness is not a part of it.
Someone has to fail in this system. Someone has to take the shit job and, frankly, someone has to be unemployed. If we all take the right steps to succeed, the "failures" will just be better prepared failures. Hard work for all does not insure financial security, or even stability, for all.
While poverty HAS to exist in capitalism, the reasons for WHO are impoverished are plentiful. Lazyness is a part of it, but I would hazard to say a smaller part of it than some think. I think that most of us (myself included) cannot imagine growing up in a culture of poverty and hopelessness, where life is about getting by, as opposed to success. It's a different world. Does poverty tend to breed poverty because of lazyness or are there other factors? Do blacks tend to be more impoverished than whites because they are lazier (actually another thread on this board came up with a resounding "yes")?
People that want to pull their own weight are deserving of a little push when times are tough--at least that's how I feel. And most people, even those who do not have any money, want to pull their own weight.
I don't look to God at all. It's a wonder I'm not homeless.
this is now a left and right issue? and no I dont think ALL people are lazy.
You haven't actually explained your decisions or free-will.
All you have said is "I make the choice" I asked why you make different choices and you said "God and Love" and then you said that there would be variation in those who look to "God and Love" because of free-will.
So basically what you are saying is that there is never a cause for your decisions. You didn't buy that MP3 player because it had more features, or a cheaper price. You didn't take that job because it offered you more bennefits or a greater salary. You didn't rent that car because of it's gas mileage. You have free-will, so your decisions are without cause.
You don't feel attracted to beautiful women, and you certainly wouldn't use attractivness to affect your dating preferences. In-fact your dating preferences are completely without cause and you choose who to date based entirely on nothing but free-will. No variables affect your decisions except your own free-will.
That is what you are saying to me. If you had the choice between two very nice women, but one was ugly and the other was gorgeous, you would choose the gorgeous one. That is because your decisions are caused! In that particular example, your decision would be caused by the visual stimulus the options had to offer. All of your decisions are made based on their merits and the predictable outcomes of your decisions weighed with your moral values you've obtained through a history of reinforcement.
It gets left/right at times. But fine. A "help the poor/fuck the poor" issue? A "Free Market/Intervene on percieved market failures" issue?
You said that poverty is caused by laziness.
With your reading comprehension skills it may be more of a wonder you're not homeless though.
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
do it for a living, but do you know how it works?
if the price is $50 right now - how many shares can I buy for $50?
of I buy up all the shares available for $50 and then next guy willing to sell wants $55 how fast does it go up to $55
after I buy them up - and noone else is willing to sell at all- what happens to the price in the next hour? next week?