You haven't actually explained your decisions or free-will.
All you have said is "I make the choice" I asked why you make different choices and you said "God and Love" and then you said that there would be variation in those who look to "God and Love" because of free-will.
So basically what you are saying is that there is never a cause for your decisions. You didn't buy that MP3 player because it had more features, or a cheaper price. You didn't take that job because it offered you more bennefits or a greater salary. You didn't rent that car because of it's gas mileage. You have free-will, so your decisions are without cause.
You don't feel attracted to beautiful women, and you certainly wouldn't use attractivness to affect your dating preferences. In-fact your dating preferences are completely without cause and you choose who to date based entirely on nothing but free-will. No variables affect your decisions except your own free-will.
That is what you are saying to me. If you had the choice between two very nice women, but one was ugly and the other was gorgeous, you would choose the gorgeous one. That is because your decisions are caused! In that particular example, your decision would be caused by the visual stimulus the options had to offer. All of your decisions are made based on their merits and the predictable outcomes of your decisions weighed with your moral values you've obtained through a history of reinforcement.
Ahnimus sometimes I can't help but to believe that you read like others talk. That is, at the expense of listening and learning.
“One good thing about music,
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
Ahnimus sometimes I can't help but to believe that you read like others talk. That is, at the expense of listening and learning.
When you have something for me to learn, I'll listen.
Right now you are just going around in circles.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
When you have something for me to learn, I'll listen.
Right now you are just going around in circles.
And actually SD, maybe you should be the one listening and learning. I've spent the last two years on this topic.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
do I know how what works? the market movement? no one does. its all educated gambling. market does whatever the hell it wants.
I guess you use educated loosely.. millions play - all educated differently
is this a hypothetical? you can buy as many shares as you want from someone who is willing to sell at 50. for every buyer there is a seller.
But my question was.. if the big board says $50 how many can I buy (it may be very limited yes?) we really don't know
if you say sold. the price is now 55
But I ask about before it is sold... It was $50... now it doesn't really jump up to the next higest offered price... what if nobody wants to sell right now.. wouldn't it go up incrementally - at $51 maybe someone would change their mind.. its it one penny at a time? is it .001% at a tiime? and what time? are there updates once a minute? does that change from stock to stock?
are these serious questions?
of course they are serious questions.. this is serious business.. this is how American's make their decisions on just about all issues.
But I guess since you said nobody knows, you are at least qualified to report that you don't know, nor does anyone you have come into contact with.
I don't quite get why, from that position, you'd suggest that I didn't know shit.
do I know how what works? the market movement? no one does. its all educated gambling. market does whatever the hell it wants.
I guess you use educated loosely.. millions play - all educated differently
is this a hypothetical? you can buy as many shares as you want from someone who is willing to sell at 50. for every buyer there is a seller.
But my question was.. if the big board says $50 how many can I buy (it may be very limited yes?) we really don't know
if you say sold. the price is now 55
But I ask about before it is sold... It was $50... now it doesn't really jump up to the next higest offered price... what if nobody wants to sell right now.. wouldn't it go up incrementally - at $51 maybe someone would change their mind.. its it one penny at a time? is it .001% at a tiime? and what time? are there updates once a minute? does that change from stock to stock?
are these serious questions?
of course they are serious questions.. this is serious business.. this is how American's make their decisions on just about all issues.
But I guess since you said nobody knows, you are at least qualified to report that you don't know, nor does anyone you have come into contact with.
I don't quite get why, from that position, you'd suggest that I didn't know shit.
according to this very confusing reply, yes, I will conclude you dont know shit about the markets.
dude I work in the markets everyday. and you give me a wiki on the stock market? WTF ???
I know I know, but you don't understand how they work.
You may buy and sell, you may give advice.. but none of that requires that you understand how they work.
Thats the beauty of this market..
A very key ingredient for example is consumer confidence ... What do you know about that? Sure you may know the trends for the past 100 years.. but how much if any of that is relevant in 2007?
How much different are things today than 5 years ago.. nevermind the 50 to 100 years ago when these traditions developed.
How many millionaires can the United States support? there is only so much ocean front property..
what about natural resources.. water.. land.. food ...
what about population growth..
what about years and years of creative accounting... and very clever criminals within some of these comanies..
What do you really know about the market? Do you know some important people that actually trade on the floor at the New York Stock exchange?
how much do they know about these markets?
What does Barnanke? What does he know.. is he the guy balancing all those spinning dinner plates on long poles?
What do you know?
what laws are going to change? What deals are being made? what information can be trusted?
Thats not going to happen it will go down but it will come back up it's happening everywhere not just america.
i wish you were right,but your not.
"In the beginning of a change the patriot is a scarce man, and brave, and hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot". Mark Twain
"I would rather die on my feet than to live on my knees."
Emiliano Zapata
yes and no. the markets will correct themselves from this credit mess. and the markets will also see extreme volatility, like seen today. today was one the of craziest days I have ever seen.
the fundamentals are still strong however. and we would need to down over 1000 points more for the market to go into a recession, I dont see that happening at all.
the market is going to crash,the fed is keeping it afloat with money they print out of thin air with no gold backing making it worthless,that causes the inflation to soar and with America's manufacturing gone over seas we have no way to over come the inflation bubble that will eventually burst.period.
oh yeah most of you probably don't know the federal reserve is a private bank and was set up to rob this country a long time ago.
"In the beginning of a change the patriot is a scarce man, and brave, and hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot". Mark Twain
"I would rather die on my feet than to live on my knees."
Emiliano Zapata
I determine my life. It's my choice to be who I am. I stopped blaming others a long time ago. In other words I grew up. Taking responsibility for my actions is a little overwhelming at times but is more than paid back by enjoying my actions. I refuse to live my life by your life limiting paradigm. I'm sorry that you can't accept the truth.
What??!! You mean your life isn't chosen for you by the lies and deceptions that government brainwashes you with?
The only people we should try to get even with...
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
Well, fuck then there seems to be an awful lot of lazy phenomologicol determinism here on teh Gold Coast, cos ther are a lot of of lazy cunts who energetically go surfing every day as an alternative eto a productive job, and teh live on socialist handouts provided by a capitalist economy while requiring substance support to keep them eternally happy in teh short but necessary periods when they need to stop surfing, or when it is flat.
I'm thinknig that the markets are gonna fall a bit, and housing prices are gonna come down, as our mortgage rate goes up, mainly to insure the lendersd against the loan defaults that have nothing to do with the non-defaulting borrowers.
I don't think tht home prices will come down too much on most markets her, cos population pressure is at least as big a driver as low rates were.
Either way, I'm glad at this point that my retirement fund is entirely liquid, and is not up to it's nuts in either market.
I'm gonna buy more guitars with it.
capitalism isnt making me rich or poor. it makes me happy. I am able to get a job and start my own business.
your first statement is the biggest crock of shit. laziness makes people poor. not rich people.
Did you have a middle class upbringing? As i think your view is very different to that of a person born into a poor family.
Rich people do indeed make people poor by not paying enough for lower paid jobs, because they want fatter profits each year and for what? how many houses and cars do you need? It's pure greed in my opinion.
If minimum wage was about double here everyone could live a little more comfortably.
I myself am living comfortably as i am lucky enough to have a skilled job. But that doesn't make me think that all the poor people are lazy because they don't.
And infact where would you be without those people to serve you in burger king or whatever? Those jobs are needed and it is just fact that not everyone can climb there way up the ladder.
Keep on rockin in the free world!!!!
The economy has polarized to the point where the wealthiest 10% now own 85% of the nation’s wealth. Never before have the bottom 90% been so highly indebted, so dependent on the wealthy.
Did you have a middle class upbringing? As i think your view is very different to that of a person born in a poor family
my grandpa was a city laborer for 40 years. we had nothing. I am 27 and grew up with no cable, air conditioning, call waiting, microwave, all little things today that would have been nice growing up. but we were too poor. everything I have today is because of hard work.
Rich people do indeed make people poor by not paying enough for lower paid jobs, because they want fatter profits each year and for what? how many houses and cars do you need? It's pure greed in my opinion.
this makes no sense. explain your first sentence again.
If minimum wage was about double here everyone could live a little more comfortably.
I myself am living comfortably as i am lucky enough to have a skilled job. But that doesn't make me think that all the poor people are lazy because they don't.
and what is that skilled job? where you born with those skills? I doubt it. yuo worked hard to become good at that skill. sorry, I have no sympathy for laziness.
And infact where would you be without those people to serve you in burger king or whatever? Those jobs are needed and it is just fact that not everyone can climb there way up the ladder.
jobs at burger king are not needed. if they werent there, I'd make my own burger.
my grandpa was a city laborer for 40 years. we had nothing. I am 27 and grew up with no cable, air conditioning, call waiting, microwave, all little things today that would have been nice growing up. but we were too poor. everything I have today is because of hard work.
Did you mention somewhere on the boards private education?
Either way i grew up the same but that was because most of those things were out or reach to alot of people in those days. Now they are seriously cheap.
this makes no sense. explain your first sentence again.
Am i wrong do corps not generally turn a bigger profit each year, whilst laying of loads of people from there jobs or outsourcing to countries where they pay penuts to extremely poor people who have to work ridiculous hours each week to make ends meet?
and what is that skilled job? where you born with those skills? I doubt it. yuo worked hard to become good at that skill. sorry, I have no sympathy for laziness. .
I'm in IT i'm here because when someone gave me there old computer i discovered a real intrest in it. Then i was lucky enough to get a good job in a school.
I know people who would love to go back to school but would not be able to afford it while working in a low paid job, i would not call this laziness.
jobs at burger king are not needed. if they werent there, I'd make my own burger.
Ok what about the grocery store, the cleaner at your office, the guy in the gas station, all these job are nessercary. And they are all low paid.
In my ideal world, everyone would be paid a fair wage one that actually resembles the cost of living. Not that everyone should all have the same just that corporate greed bugs me.
Keep on rockin in the free world!!!!
The economy has polarized to the point where the wealthiest 10% now own 85% of the nation’s wealth. Never before have the bottom 90% been so highly indebted, so dependent on the wealthy.
Did you mention somewhere on the boards private education?
Either way i grew up the same but that was because most of those things were out or reach to alot of people in those days. Now they are seriously cheap.
well i'm not some country club kid with a silver spoon in my mouth. which is what im sure you were thinking.
Am i wrong do corps not generally turn a bigger profit each year, whilst laying of loads of people from there jobs or outsourcing to countries where they pay penuts to extremely poor people who have to work ridiculous hours each week to make ends meet?
no, companies do not lay off loads of people. some do. most expand and hire more.
I'm in IT i'm here because when someone gave me there old computer i discovered a real intrest in it. Then i was lucky enough to get a good job in a school.
I know people who would love to go back to school but would not be able to afford it while working in a low paid job, i would not call this laziness.
really? its call school loans. and since when do you need to school to become smart? go to a library. fuck, use google.
I worked in IT for 6 years. which an Economics Degree. you know how? I studied books and passed 3 certification tests. Network+, CCNA, and CNWA. I never went to school for any of it. people are fucking lazy.
In my ideal world, everyone would be paid a fair wage one that actually resembles the cost of living. Not that everyone should all have the same just that corporate greed bugs me.
that makes me all warm inside, but it is the MOST unfair way of running an economy. foolish acutally.
well i'm not some country club kid with a silver spoon in my mouth. which is what im sure you were thinking..
I was in no way implying you had a silver spoon in your mouth, if anything i would have thought you lower middle class growing up. So your view of things is a little different to mine.
I worked in IT for 6 years. which an Economics Degree. you know how? I studied books and passed 3 certification tests. Network+, CCNA, and CNWA. I never went to school for any of it. people are fucking lazy.
It's not just a case of i have done xyz so everyone else can. It really isn't as simple as that. But unless you have lived that life or know anyone who does, i wouldn't expect you to understand.
that makes me all warm inside, but it is the MOST unfair way of running an economy. foolish acutally.
So massive tax breaks for the incredibly wealthy is fair? Whilst people have to bust a gut to pay the rent.
At the end of the day my friend it is the middle classes who get screwed the most, but they are unable to see it. But hey maybe it's all different over there.
What about all the people in poorer countries who are victim of circumstance, are they just plain lazy too?
Keep on rockin in the free world!!!!
The economy has polarized to the point where the wealthiest 10% now own 85% of the nation’s wealth. Never before have the bottom 90% been so highly indebted, so dependent on the wealthy.
It's not just a case of i have done xyz so everyone else can. It really isn't as simple as that. But unless you have lived that life or know anyone who does, i wouldn't expect you to understand
Ok so every single adult over say 25 should be in some super paid job? It just isn't realistic.
wow did I say that? no, every adult over 25 has a choice on whether they want to stay a minimum wage worker or if they have to drive to excel and make more money. its a choice.
At the end of the day my friend it is the middle classes who get screwed the most, but they are unable to see it. But hey maybe it's all different over there.
how so? i'm middle class and I'm not getting screwed at all.
how so? i'm middle class and I'm not getting screwed at all.
As i said maybe it's different there. But again i would need to start qouting books so there's no point as you will just dismiss it as rubbish conspircy theory again.
What i don't get jlew is why you defent the system so much. I mean we live within it and we are both doing ok. But the difference between you and i is, that i want to see how it really works and you want to belive it works how you are told it works.
You even believe all poor out of work people are lazy. It's a myth they peddle to get you to think that they are your enemy and not the the insanly rich.
Keep on rockin in the free world!!!!
The economy has polarized to the point where the wealthiest 10% now own 85% of the nation’s wealth. Never before have the bottom 90% been so highly indebted, so dependent on the wealthy.
What i don't get jlew is why you defent the system so much. I mean we live within it and we are both doing ok. But the difference between you and i is, that i want to see how it really works and you want to belive it works how you are told it works.
wrong. I see how it works from experience. I work in the financial industry and have an economics degree. my life is very involved in how the american and world ecomony works.
not because of how "I'm told" what does that even mean?
Many things have changed.. the whole makeup of our corporations - Multi nationals and with increased political power. In a capitalistic model - the market makes many decisions and corporations make the market.
But its more than that.. I do agree that our way of live makes for freedom and innvation. But what are our brightest people being movitated to innovate?
200 years ago we had basic needs. Shelter, food, health care, education, communication, security... Its save to say we have virtually mastered those problems with hard work and brilliant idea and technology advanced.
Sadly in the new milenium, it is not really profitable to advance towards making those advances accessable to everyone. On the contrary, todays business world encourages our brightest to devise ways of shielding weath and deceiving the people for profit. Our advances are fundamentally pulling apart our country and economy rather than stregnthening it.
this assumption of growth is obsolete in my opinion. Growth was natural in the early years and we expanded across the forntier and made new discoveries and solved the problems and met the needs of a growing population with unlimited and new resources. Absent a new frontier and new resources... growth must be created through deception and the developement of new faux needs.
Another of our motivations for our brightests is millitary.. we develop ways to destroy things... The motivation to cooperate - work together - to find common goals is gone. It is just un Capitalistic - Un American..
And because of that - we don't advance like we should. We can not expect our economy to continue to really grow when we don't have anywher to grow to and we don't have a common understanding of what we are growing towards.
I believe this direction we have taken will strike its first devastating blow through the stock markets. Hard to say when.. but could well be in our lifetimes and it will be very difficult to overcome - may last a very long time.
Many things have changed.. the whole makeup of our corporations - Multi nationals and with increased political power. In a capitalistic model - the market makes many decisions and corporations make the market.
But its more than that.. I do agree that our way of live makes for freedom and innvation. But what are our brightest people being movitated to innovate?
200 years ago we had basic needs. Shelter, food, health care, education, communication, security... Its save to say we have virtually mastered those problems with hard work and brilliant idea and technology advanced.
Sadly in the new milenium, it is not really profitable to advance towards making those advances accessable to everyone. On the contrary, todays business world encourages our brightest to devise ways of shielding weath and deceiving the people for profit. Our advances are fundamentally pulling apart our country and economy rather than stregnthening it.
this assumption of growth is obsolete in my opinion. Growth was natural in the early years and we expanded across the forntier and made new discoveries and solved the problems and met the needs of a growing population with unlimited and new resources. Absent a new frontier and new resources... growth must be created through deception and the developement of new faux needs.
Another of our motivations for our brightests is millitary.. we develop ways to destroy things... The motivation to cooperate - work together - to find common goals is gone. It is just un Capitalistic - Un American..
And because of that - we don't advance like we should. We can not expect our economy to continue to really grow when we don't have anywher to grow to and we don't have a common understanding of what we are growing towards.
I believe this direction we have taken will strike its first devastating blow through the stock markets. Hard to say when.. but could well be in our lifetimes and it will be very difficult to overcome - may last a very long time.
Comments
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
is this a hypothetical? you can buy as many shares as you want from someone who is willing to sell at 50. for every buyer there is a seller.
if you say sold. the price is now 55
are these serious questions?
When you have something for me to learn, I'll listen.
Right now you are just going around in circles.
And actually SD, maybe you should be the one listening and learning. I've spent the last two years on this topic.
you could learn alot with little reading.. its really not complicated at all.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stock_market
I know I know, but you don't understand how they work.
You may buy and sell, you may give advice.. but none of that requires that you understand how they work.
Thats the beauty of this market..
A very key ingredient for example is consumer confidence ... What do you know about that? Sure you may know the trends for the past 100 years.. but how much if any of that is relevant in 2007?
How much different are things today than 5 years ago.. nevermind the 50 to 100 years ago when these traditions developed.
How many millionaires can the United States support? there is only so much ocean front property..
what about natural resources.. water.. land.. food ...
what about population growth..
what about years and years of creative accounting... and very clever criminals within some of these comanies..
What do you really know about the market? Do you know some important people that actually trade on the floor at the New York Stock exchange?
how much do they know about these markets?
What does Barnanke? What does he know.. is he the guy balancing all those spinning dinner plates on long poles?
What do you know?
what laws are going to change? What deals are being made? what information can be trusted?
What exactly do you know?
i wish you were right,but your not.
"I would rather die on my feet than to live on my knees."
Emiliano Zapata
put your money where your mouth is. if you are 100% sure, open an account on a trading site such as this...
https://us.etrade.com/e/t/home?SC=NPNRR26&WT.mc_id=NPNRR26&WT.srch=1
or
http://www.scottrade.com/
or
http://www.schwab.com/
"short" (http://www.investopedia.com/terms/s/shortselling.asp) all the money you have on this..
http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=QQQQ
Nasdaq symbol QQQQ
you are 100% correct the market is going to crash. you can make millions. I am dead serious. Let's see if you walk the walk.
the market is going to crash,the fed is keeping it afloat with money they print out of thin air with no gold backing making it worthless,that causes the inflation to soar and with America's manufacturing gone over seas we have no way to over come the inflation bubble that will eventually burst.period.
oh yeah most of you probably don't know the federal reserve is a private bank and was set up to rob this country a long time ago.
http://www.bigeye.com/griffin.htm
"I would rather die on my feet than to live on my knees."
Emiliano Zapata
What??!! You mean your life isn't chosen for you by the lies and deceptions that government brainwashes you with?
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
You don't have to be an engineer to sell cars. You don't have to understand the world's economy and to sell mutual funds.
The United States economy grew like crazy in the last 200 years..
We've used up much of the new frontier - we've played that hand and did very very well..
The next 200 will be much much different... Do know what is in store for the next 10?
probably similar to this..
http://www.neatideas.com/data/data/GDP.htm
http://www.neatideas.com/gdp.htm
with steady population growth, all those people are going to bring something to the table right?
http://www.census.gov/population/www/pop-profile/natproj.html
but since we conquered the west, its all downhill
that is what I figured and all things being equal that would be a good bet. but these models don't really apply anymore
I don't know, the larger population will be taking from the table too... there is limited resources...
now you are speakin my language. you are 100% correct, there are limited resources.
but I think you are underestimating the power of innovation and entrepreneurship. ya know, something that capitalism allows and encourages.
I'm thinknig that the markets are gonna fall a bit, and housing prices are gonna come down, as our mortgage rate goes up, mainly to insure the lendersd against the loan defaults that have nothing to do with the non-defaulting borrowers.
I don't think tht home prices will come down too much on most markets her, cos population pressure is at least as big a driver as low rates were.
Either way, I'm glad at this point that my retirement fund is entirely liquid, and is not up to it's nuts in either market.
I'm gonna buy more guitars with it.
Did you have a middle class upbringing? As i think your view is very different to that of a person born into a poor family.
Rich people do indeed make people poor by not paying enough for lower paid jobs, because they want fatter profits each year and for what? how many houses and cars do you need? It's pure greed in my opinion.
If minimum wage was about double here everyone could live a little more comfortably.
I myself am living comfortably as i am lucky enough to have a skilled job. But that doesn't make me think that all the poor people are lazy because they don't.
And infact where would you be without those people to serve you in burger king or whatever? Those jobs are needed and it is just fact that not everyone can climb there way up the ladder.
The economy has polarized to the point where the wealthiest 10% now own 85% of the nation’s wealth. Never before have the bottom 90% been so highly indebted, so dependent on the wealthy.
this makes no sense. explain your first sentence again.
and what is that skilled job? where you born with those skills? I doubt it. yuo worked hard to become good at that skill. sorry, I have no sympathy for laziness.
jobs at burger king are not needed. if they werent there, I'd make my own burger.
Did you mention somewhere on the boards private education?
Either way i grew up the same but that was because most of those things were out or reach to alot of people in those days. Now they are seriously cheap.
Am i wrong do corps not generally turn a bigger profit each year, whilst laying of loads of people from there jobs or outsourcing to countries where they pay penuts to extremely poor people who have to work ridiculous hours each week to make ends meet?
I'm in IT i'm here because when someone gave me there old computer i discovered a real intrest in it. Then i was lucky enough to get a good job in a school.
I know people who would love to go back to school but would not be able to afford it while working in a low paid job, i would not call this laziness.
Ok what about the grocery store, the cleaner at your office, the guy in the gas station, all these job are nessercary. And they are all low paid.
In my ideal world, everyone would be paid a fair wage one that actually resembles the cost of living. Not that everyone should all have the same just that corporate greed bugs me.
The economy has polarized to the point where the wealthiest 10% now own 85% of the nation’s wealth. Never before have the bottom 90% been so highly indebted, so dependent on the wealthy.
no, companies do not lay off loads of people. some do. most expand and hire more.
really? its call school loans. and since when do you need to school to become smart? go to a library. fuck, use google.
I worked in IT for 6 years. which an Economics Degree. you know how? I studied books and passed 3 certification tests. Network+, CCNA, and CNWA. I never went to school for any of it. people are fucking lazy.
because they are low skill jobs. mostly saved for high school kids or people who are happy to work non-stressful jobs.
that makes me all warm inside, but it is the MOST unfair way of running an economy. foolish acutally.
I was in no way implying you had a silver spoon in your mouth, if anything i would have thought you lower middle class growing up. So your view of things is a little different to mine.
Ok well i'm talking about the news here, where many companies have laid of loads of staff yet have returned record profits for that year.
It's not about becoming smart though is it, you need certain education for certain better paid jobs thats just fact.
It's not just a case of i have done xyz so everyone else can. It really isn't as simple as that. But unless you have lived that life or know anyone who does, i wouldn't expect you to understand.
Ok so every single adult over say 25 should be in some super paid job? It just isn't realistic.
So massive tax breaks for the incredibly wealthy is fair? Whilst people have to bust a gut to pay the rent.
At the end of the day my friend it is the middle classes who get screwed the most, but they are unable to see it. But hey maybe it's all different over there.
What about all the people in poorer countries who are victim of circumstance, are they just plain lazy too?
The economy has polarized to the point where the wealthiest 10% now own 85% of the nation’s wealth. Never before have the bottom 90% been so highly indebted, so dependent on the wealthy.
why?
I dont see your point. people do not need school to get educated.
no idea what the hell you are talking about.
wow did I say that? no, every adult over 25 has a choice on whether they want to stay a minimum wage worker or if they have to drive to excel and make more money. its a choice.
is it fair that someone who is successful should get taxed, on a % basis, more? why should success be punished?
how so? i'm middle class and I'm not getting screwed at all.
nope. they deserve our charity.
These corps plain out avoid tax payments as much as they can. Do you do the same?
But to prove my point would be to quote books you would dismiss as rubbish. So no point going down that road.
As i said maybe it's different there. But again i would need to start qouting books so there's no point as you will just dismiss it as rubbish conspircy theory again.
What i don't get jlew is why you defent the system so much. I mean we live within it and we are both doing ok. But the difference between you and i is, that i want to see how it really works and you want to belive it works how you are told it works.
You even believe all poor out of work people are lazy. It's a myth they peddle to get you to think that they are your enemy and not the the insanly rich.
The economy has polarized to the point where the wealthiest 10% now own 85% of the nation’s wealth. Never before have the bottom 90% been so highly indebted, so dependent on the wealthy.
wrong. I see how it works from experience. I work in the financial industry and have an economics degree. my life is very involved in how the american and world ecomony works.
not because of how "I'm told" what does that even mean?
no I dont. people who arent lazy and can not help themselves need our charity.
again, who is "they" ?
Many things have changed.. the whole makeup of our corporations - Multi nationals and with increased political power. In a capitalistic model - the market makes many decisions and corporations make the market.
But its more than that.. I do agree that our way of live makes for freedom and innvation. But what are our brightest people being movitated to innovate?
200 years ago we had basic needs. Shelter, food, health care, education, communication, security... Its save to say we have virtually mastered those problems with hard work and brilliant idea and technology advanced.
Sadly in the new milenium, it is not really profitable to advance towards making those advances accessable to everyone. On the contrary, todays business world encourages our brightest to devise ways of shielding weath and deceiving the people for profit. Our advances are fundamentally pulling apart our country and economy rather than stregnthening it.
this assumption of growth is obsolete in my opinion. Growth was natural in the early years and we expanded across the forntier and made new discoveries and solved the problems and met the needs of a growing population with unlimited and new resources. Absent a new frontier and new resources... growth must be created through deception and the developement of new faux needs.
Another of our motivations for our brightests is millitary.. we develop ways to destroy things... The motivation to cooperate - work together - to find common goals is gone. It is just un Capitalistic - Un American..
And because of that - we don't advance like we should. We can not expect our economy to continue to really grow when we don't have anywher to grow to and we don't have a common understanding of what we are growing towards.
I believe this direction we have taken will strike its first devastating blow through the stock markets. Hard to say when.. but could well be in our lifetimes and it will be very difficult to overcome - may last a very long time.
Now, that makes some sense to me.
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