The War on Women: Abortion and the South

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  • Posts: 849
    catefrances wrote:
    can you not read what i have written?

    yr right, sorry.

    you said you never denied it's not human.

    so how can you say you aren't killing a baby when you have an abortion?
    i'm the meat, yer not...signed Capt Asshat
  • Posts: 9,446
    Ahnimus wrote:
    Do you even know what the age of viability is and what it means? You are also a cluster of cells, should I be allowed to end your life if you are sitting on my couch?

    This is why scholars on the issue shake their heads at the troves of ignorant citizens who try to have a valid opinion on the debate.

    Yup, as I suspected. I don't agree with your pov and I have no problem with my level of education on the issue but you are going to attempt to belittle me and assert your male dominant superiority. Seriously this conversation with you is about as useful as that time you decided to take over the Rape thread with all your talk about the poor perpertrator.

    Plenty of people have wanted to and attempted to end my life, including myself what's the relevence? A scholar that has had an abortion or has been in the situation and chosen not to have an abortion, yeah, that's who I'd be willing to listen to, otherwise they've got no idea either. You can read and theorize and debate all you like but this changes nothing. You simply don't seem to be able to understand the concept of an individuals right to choose for themselves. AND before you jump up and down about the foetus having rights, the law has already decided in favor of the woman for valid reasons, so I don't know that there's much else we have to discuss on the matter.
    NOPE!!!

    *~You're IT Bert!~*

    Hold on to the thread
    The currents will shift
  • Posts: 10,560
    catefrances wrote:
    so now you disparaging my parenting skills and questioning my love for my children?
    i have four children. whilst only one of them was actually planned, all four of them are deeply loved, nurtured and defended by me.
    if my children's father came to me tomorrow and asked for primary custody , i would aahve no qualms about handing responsibility of them to him. i would not question it nor would i start some humiliating brou-ha-ha simply because i am female.
    you know ryan for some reason i am not surprised you had that image in your head. for the first time i feel disappointed by your discourse. and deeply offended.

    I'm questioning your portrayal of the "female" in this debate. I know that not all females are pro-choice, and many are pro-life and many sit on the fence. So the arguments you are using are completely invalid.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • Posts: 10,560
    Jeanie wrote:
    Yup, as I suspected. I don't agree with your pov and I have no problem with my level of education on the issue but you are going to attempt to belittle me and assert your male dominant superiority. Seriously this conversation with you is about as useful as that time you decided to take over the Rape thread with all your talk about the poor perpertrator.

    Plenty of people have wanted to and attempted to end my life, including myself what's the relevence? A scholar that has had an abortion or has been in the situation and chosen not to have an abortion, yeah, that's who I'd be willing to listen to, otherwise they've got no idea either. You can read and theorize and debate all you like but this changes nothing. You simply don't seem to be able to understand the concept of an individuals right to choose for themselves. AND before you jump up and down about the foetus having rights, the law has already decided in favor of the woman for valid reasons, so I don't know that there's much else we have to discuss on the matter.

    It hasn't decided in favor of women. You pompously ignorant and highly emotionally charged individual. Read the law in the United States. It's probably the same in Australia, as it is in Canada. You can not abort a fetus that has reached the age of viability. Do some research, learn something about the issue and keep your emotions toned down.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • Posts: 9,446
    Ahnimus wrote:
    For some reason, I picture a downtrodden and irate, possibly mentally ill woman ramming a coat hanger up her uterus to descimate a healthy child, all the while hysterically repeating the phrase "It's my body I'll do what I want."

    Certainly, your and Jeanie's attitudes towards this topic don't support the existing paradigm that women are loving and caring towards their offspring by nature. Rather, the claim appears to be a self-serving motivation for women to win more child-custody battles when they do in-fact want the children.

    Personally, I'd rather you not mother a child. Unwanted children raised by parents like yourself tend to have academic and social difficulties later on, they are more likely to be abused and neglected and to abuse and neglect their own children.


    nice work Ryan. :rolleyes: how the fuck can you predict my ability to parent? Are you psychic? talk about sweeping generalizations and asshole comments.
    take your misogynist bullshit and shove it fair up your backside. Personally I hope you never have kids either. Poor little buggers will probably end up in the nut house. How's that for an unreasonable and unwarranted prediction?
    NOPE!!!

    *~You're IT Bert!~*

    Hold on to the thread
    The currents will shift
  • Posts: 9,446
    Ahnimus wrote:
    It hasn't decided in favor of women. You pompously ignorant and highly emotionally charged individual. Read the law in the United States. It's probably the same in Australia, as it is in Canada. You can not abort a fetus that has reached the age of viability. Do some research, learn something about the issue and keep your emotions toned down.

    Oh bite me!
    NOPE!!!

    *~You're IT Bert!~*

    Hold on to the thread
    The currents will shift
  • Posts: 191
    Abortion debates always seem to me a bit like.... girls with hairy armpits verses girls without hairy armpits.

    What if a mentally retarded girl of 35 with the mind of a 2yr old gets raped and falls pregnent ? What then ? She cannot even comprehend the meaning of pregnancy let alone healthy parenting.

    In the instance of an accidental pregnancy by 2 legally consenting adults.... How much say should the father have when the subject of abortion raises its wrinkly head ?

    Theres good arguement for and against abortion. But I dont think it should be illegal to have an abortion.


    And yes jeanie, the foetus can only be aborted by law if it is only so many weeks developed, I aint even going to bother looking up the time frame but its not long.
  • Posts: 29,003
    Ahnimus wrote:
    Exactly, before it's viable. That is the debate, the debate is on what a mother's rights to abortion should be, based on the development of the fetus. Legally, in most western countries, this is the age of viability. Once the child is viable, and there is no threat to the mother's life, then abortion is no longer an option. Are you going to refute that with some kind of emotional perspective or "woman" perspective? Because none of that is required to come to the same conclusion that myself and others have come to, and how the law actually is most places. Once you can get over yourself and stop using stupid situational arguments to discredit other's viewpoints, we can hopefully come to a democratic and objective agreement and put an end to this stupid debate over abortion.

    once i get over myself. :rolleyes: i don't support 2nd or 3rd trimester abortion UNLESS the health of the woman is at risk.

    stupid situational arguments? so actually having been in the position of having to make that decision is now stupid is it?
    hear my name
    take a good look
    this could be the day
    hold my hand
    lie beside me
    i just need to say
  • Posts: 9,446
    Pearler wrote:
    Abortion debates always seem to me a bit like.... girls with hairy armpits verses girls without hairy armpits.

    What if a mentally retarded girl of 35 with the mind of a 2yr old gets raped and falls pregnent ? What then ? She cannot even comprehend the meaning of pregnancy let alone healthy parenting.

    In the instance of an accidental pregnancy by 2 legally consenting adults.... How much say should the father have when the subject of abortion raises its wrinkly head ?

    Theres good arguement for and against abortion. But I dont think it should be illegal to have an abortion.


    And yes jeanie, the foetus can only be aborted by law if it is only so many weeks developed, I aint even going to bother looking up the time frame but its not long.

    There have been late term abortions performed by doctors here on women. The last poor woman that it happened to is still receiving psychiatric treatment because of that nut job McGauran and his blatant disregard for her wellbeing and her privacy.

    http://www.theage.com.au/news/national/row-grows-in-lateterm-abortion-case/2005/07/01/1119724809174.html

    And abortion still has not been decriminalized here in Victoria.

    There are stipulations regarding the age of the foetus but late term abortions do still happen here in Victoria and doctors and women can still be prosecuted for providing or procuring an abortion.
    NOPE!!!

    *~You're IT Bert!~*

    Hold on to the thread
    The currents will shift
  • Posts: 29,003
    Jeanie wrote:
    There have been late term abortions performed by doctors here on women. The last poor woman that it happened to is still receiving psychiatric treatment because of that nut job McGauran and his blatant disregard for her wellbeing and her privacy.

    http://www.theage.com.au/news/national/row-grows-in-lateterm-abortion-case/2005/07/01/1119724809174.html

    And abortion still has not been decriminalized here in Victoria.

    There are stipulations regarding the age of the foetus but late term abortions do still happen here in Victoria and doctors and women can still be prosecuted for providing or procuring an abortion.


    i have to wonder why it would take so long for a woman to make the decision to procure an abortion.
    hear my name
    take a good look
    this could be the day
    hold my hand
    lie beside me
    i just need to say
  • Posts: 9,446
    catefrances wrote:
    i have to wonder why it would take so long for a woman to make the decision to procure an abortion.

    she had tests done at a particular point in the development of the foetus and it was discovered that the child had downs syndrome or something. she was already suffering mental illness and this tipped her over the edge. and the only reason I know this is because of that asshole McGauran.

    And that is exactly why they should be available cate. Because some tests cannot be performed early in the pregnancy and some people cannot cope with pregnancy. it's unfortunate, but necessary in some cases.
    NOPE!!!

    *~You're IT Bert!~*

    Hold on to the thread
    The currents will shift
  • Posts: 29,003
    Jeanie wrote:
    she had tests done at a particular point in the development of the foetus and it was discovered that the child had downs syndrome or something. she was already suffering mental illness and this tipped her over the edge. and the only reason I know this is because of that asshole McGauran.

    And that is exactly why they should be available cate. Because some tests cannot be performed early in the pregnancy and some people cannot cope with pregnancy. it's unfortunate, but necessary in some cases.

    there are always extenuating circumstances in some cases which should always be taken into account. this really isn't a one size fits all issue. it is highly personal and indivdualistic.
    hear my name
    take a good look
    this could be the day
    hold my hand
    lie beside me
    i just need to say
  • Posts: 10,560
    Jeanie wrote:
    There have been late term abortions performed by doctors here on women. The last poor woman that it happened to is still receiving psychiatric treatment because of that nut job McGauran and his blatant disregard for her wellbeing and her privacy.

    http://www.theage.com.au/news/national/row-grows-in-lateterm-abortion-case/2005/07/01/1119724809174.html

    And abortion still has not been decriminalized here in Victoria.

    There are stipulations regarding the age of the foetus but late term abortions do still happen here in Victoria and doctors and women can still be prosecuted for providing or procuring an abortion.

    Nice source Jeanie. Try this:

    http://www.aph.gov.au/Library/Pubs/RP/1998-99/99rp01.htm

    Two Australian States, Victoria and South Australia, have legislation that make it a crime to act with intent to destroy 'a child capable of being born alive' before it has an existence independent of its mother, unless the act is done in good faith solely to preserve the mother's life.(172) Evidence that the woman in question had been pregnant for 28 weeks or more is considered to be prima facie proof that she was carrying 'a child capable of being born alive'. The penalty for committing child destruction is ten years' imprisonment in Victoria and life imprisonment in South Australia.

    It goes on to say that there are exceptions if the mother's health is at risk. Which is exactly what I agree with, it is exactly how the law is, and it's really the only rational, unbias and egalitarian position to have on abortion.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • Posts: 10,560
    My problem has always been the way this debate is handled.

    Look at the thread title "War on Women"

    Ok? Being a woman alone does not mean you are pro-choice. There is discontinuty in what women think about abortion. This is a case of a woman assuming that all women share her views, and it's a misogynistic "war" on "women". That is absolutely not the case.

    Yet, this paradigm has been championed throughout this thread. Jeanie claiming all women are like her, etc.. It's not even about women, women just happen to be a huge part of pregnancy and abortion.

    If everyone takes a personal, or ideological view of this issue then the debates are pointless. It can only end it people's raised emotions and all out personal attacks. All I'm trying to do is bring some reason to the debate and to quash these arguments that seek to degrade other's opinions because of their sex, or their religious beliefs.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • Posts: 3,965
    Ahnimus wrote:
    My problem has always been the way this debate is handled.

    Look at the thread title "War on Women"

    Ok? Being a woman alone does not mean you are pro-choice. There is discontinuty in what women think about abortion. This is a case of a woman assuming that all women share her views, and it's a misogynistic "war" on "women". That is absolutely not the case.

    Yet, this paradigm has been championed throughout this thread. Jeanie claiming all women are like her, etc.. It's not even about women, women just happen to be a huge part of pregnancy and abortion.

    If everyone takes a personal, or ideological view of this issue then the debates are pointless. It can only end it people's raised emotions and all out personal attacks. All I'm trying to do is bring some reason to the debate and to quash these arguments that seek to degrade other's opinions because of their sex, or their religious beliefs.
    I do agree with this. :) Except you keep spelling discontinuity wrong. Sorry, but it was driving me nuts. :D
    "I'd rather be with an animal." "Those that can be trusted can change their mind." "The in between is mine." "If I don't lose control, explore and not explode, a preternatural other plane with the power to maintain." "Yeh this is living." "Life is what you make it."
  • Posts: 10,560
    wolfbear wrote:
    I do agree with this. :) Except you keep spelling discontinuity wrong. Sorry, but it was driving me nuts. :D

    Sorry Wolf. I know how it is spelled, but I guess my muscle memory has it wrong. I'm a touch-typer so I don't put much thought into spelling, unless I'm training my muscles.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • Posts: 3,965
    Ahnimus wrote:
    Sorry Wolf. I know how it is spelled, but I guess my muscle memory has it wrong. I'm a touch-typer so I don't put much thought into spelling, unless I'm training my muscles.
    I guess I'll give your "muscle memory" a break this time. lol :)
    "I'd rather be with an animal." "Those that can be trusted can change their mind." "The in between is mine." "If I don't lose control, explore and not explode, a preternatural other plane with the power to maintain." "Yeh this is living." "Life is what you make it."
  • Posts: 10,560
    wolfbear wrote:
    I guess I'll give your "muscle memory" a break this time. lol :)

    Thanks for pointing it out though. I don't inteionally mispel stuffs, so I wellcom you're inputt.

    ;)
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • Posts: 3,965
    Ahnimus wrote:
    Thanks for pointing it out though. I don't inteionally mispel stuffs, so I wellcom you're inputt.

    ;)
    Ok, that's too much. Don't push me. :D
    "I'd rather be with an animal." "Those that can be trusted can change their mind." "The in between is mine." "If I don't lose control, explore and not explode, a preternatural other plane with the power to maintain." "Yeh this is living." "Life is what you make it."
  • Posts: 10,560
    wolfbear wrote:
    Ok, that's too much. Don't push me. :D

    It took a surprising amount of effort to mispell all those words. ;)
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire

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