The War on Women: Abortion and the South

MahoganySouls

SundaySilence wrote:

"This poll was conducted among a nationwide random sample of 814 adults, interviewed by telephone January 19-21, 2003."

Thank you, I obviously didn't scroll down far enough.

Anon

Ahnimus wrote:

For some reason, I picture a downtrodden and irate, possibly mentally ill woman ramming a coat hanger up her uterus to descimate a healthy child, all the while hysterically repeating the phrase "It's my body I'll do what I want."

congratulations. you have the honor of being responsible for stating the most utterly ridiculous comment that i have ever read on AMT. that's a real feat. there have been many in the past.

gue_barium

Pj_Gurl wrote:

congratulations. you have the honor of being responsible for stating the most utterly ridiculous comment that i have ever read on AMT. that's a real feat. there have been many in the past.

Forgive him. He's a romantic.

Jeanie

gue_barium wrote:

Hey Jeanie, if you read it a little closer... it kind of has a ring of contemporary truth to it. On this issue of men and women and sexual morality. Of course, bringing sexual morality into this might confuse those who have read my post about this being a woman's health isssue. Could it be that the morality of the right is more concerned about male sexual dominance? Could it be that abortion is not really the issue at all?

To be honest gue, I have wondered that myself. I think that people become embroiled in this issue for different motivations. Certainly there are some, I think, that support "traditional" roles and see it as an opportunity to assert male sexual dominance, well just male dominance in general. It certainly does appear that being anti abortion for some is an excuse to push a moralistic and religious agenda. But then I'm quite sure there are people that can and do say that my position is a feminist ideological one and that I wouldn't be happy until women rule the world. That's not the case. (well not really! But it sounds good! ) In my perfect scenario, there would be no need for abortion, but until we reach perfection I absolutely believe in the ultimate right of the individual over their body and seeing as I don't consider an embryo to be an individual, then the pregnant woman has the right to access whatever medical procedure she requires to maintain her health and individuality SHOULD that be what she wants. Ultimately I do see much of this issue being about control and power and who has it and who thinks they should have it. I just know that I cannot think of any circumstance where I would dictate what someone else should do to their body, and I guess it is my expectation that I be afforded the same courtesy. SO yeah, if some people wish to dominate me or choose for me or bail me up on my way to the doctor, I will certainly have something to say about it. Oh and personally, I think if more people adopted the Make Love Not War slogan as their motto the world would be a much better place.

gue_barium

Jeanie wrote:

To be honest gue, I have wondered that myself. I think that people become embroiled in this issue for different motivations. Certainly there are some, I think, that support "traditional" roles and see it as an opportunity to assert male sexual dominance, well just male dominance in general. It certainly does appear that being anti abortion for some is an excuse to push a moralistic and religious agenda. But then I'm quite sure there are people that can and do say that my position is a feminist ideological one and that I wouldn't be happy until women rule the world. That's not the case. (well not really! But it sounds good! ) In my perfect scenario, there would be no need for abortion, but until we reach perfection I absolutely believe in the ultimate right of the individual over their body and seeing as I don't consider an embryo to be an individual, then the pregnant woman has the right to access whatever medical procedure she requires to maintain her health and individuality SHOULD that be what she wants. Ultimately I do see much of this issue being about control and power and who has it and who thinks they should have it. I just know that I cannot think of any circumstance where I would dictate what someone else should do to their body, and I guess it is my expectation that I be afforded the same courtesy. SO yeah, if some people wish to dominate me or choose for me or bail me up on my way to the doctor, I will certainly have something to say about it. Oh and personally, I think if more people adopted the Make Love Not War slogan as their motto the world would be a much better place.

There is no gender dominance "in general." It is traditional, and specified.

And yes, Make Love Not War.

MahoganySouls

Jeanie wrote:

To be honest gue, I have wondered that myself. I think that people become embroiled in this issue for different motivations. Certainly there are some, I think, that support "traditional" roles and see it as an opportunity to assert male sexual dominance, well just male dominance in general. It certainly does appear that being anti abortion for some is an excuse to push a moralistic and religious agenda. But then I'm quite sure there are people that can and do say that my position is a feminist ideological one and that I wouldn't be happy until women rule the world. That's not the case. (well not really! But it sounds good! ) In my perfect scenario, there would be no need for abortion, but until we reach perfection I absolutely believe in the ultimate right of the individual over their body and seeing as I don't consider an embryo to be an individual, then the pregnant woman has the right to access whatever medical procedure she requires to maintain her health and individuality SHOULD that be what she wants. Ultimately I do see much of this issue being about control and power and who has it and who thinks they should have it. I just know that I cannot think of any circumstance where I would dictate what someone else should do to their body, and I guess it is my expectation that I be afforded the same courtesy. SO yeah, if some people wish to dominate me or choose for me or bail me up on my way to the doctor, I will certainly have something to say about it. Oh and personally, I think if more people adopted the Make Love Not War slogan as their motto the world would be a much better place.

Yeah but then with all the lovin goin on there would be more pregnancies and more potential abortions :eek:

Jeanie

gue_barium wrote:

There is no gender dominance "in general." It is traditional, and specified.

And yes, Make Love Not War.

Well I'm sure you'll understand why I can't say that without being labelled a feminist. Apparently my views on history are skewed.

Jeanie

MahoganySouls wrote:

Yeah but then with all the lovin goin on there would be more pregnancies and more potential abortions :eek:

We're talking perfect world here. So humanity would FINALLY have become enlightened and educated enough that there could be a whole lotta lovin without pregnancy or abortion. But then I suspect it gets back to what gue's talking about.

MahoganySouls

Jeanie wrote:

We're talking perfect world here. So humanity would FINALLY have become enlightened and educated enough that there could be a whole lotta lovin without pregnancy or abortion. But then I suspect it gets back to what gue's talking about.

Well ok then, I'm all for lovin without negative strings. In that scenerio, yep go at it like bunnies!

Scubascott

article posted by sweetpotato wrote:

Now, anti-abortion groups are strategizing ways to outlaw birth control and eliminate sex education.

Nobody commented on this before when I asked. I'm really curious about it. Can somebody please elaborate on it for me?

And, just to stir the shite a bit - All you angry women that are busy accusing men of trying to excercise control over your bodies by banning abortion, perhaps you missed the part in the original article that said the anti-abortion protesters that hang around these clinics are mostly women. . .

"The protesters are mostly women. They look like Sunday school teachers, housewives and hip grandmas. And, during the past few months, they have grown more vocal and more organized, emboldened by the recent closure of the only clinic in Mobile."

MahoganySouls

Originally Posted by article posted by sweetpotato
Now, anti-abortion groups are strategizing ways to outlaw birth control and eliminate sex education

I'm not aware of this being new per-say. I think this is a specific Christian concept as opposed to a "womens" concept.

Jeanie

MahoganySouls wrote:

Well ok then, I'm all for lovin without negative strings. In that scenerio, yep go at it like bunnies!

That's my thoughts exactly!

Scubascott

MahoganySouls wrote:

I'm not aware of this being new per-say. I think this is a specific Christian concept as opposed to a "womens" concept.

Huh? what's a specific christian concept?

MahoganySouls

Scubascott wrote:

Huh? what's a specific christian concept?

That birth control is wrong.

Jeanie

Scubascott wrote:

Nobody commented on this before when I asked. I'm really curious about it. Can somebody please elaborate on it for me?

And, just to stir the shite a bit - All you angry women that are busy accusing men of trying to excercise control over your bodies by banning abortion, perhaps you missed the part in the original article that said the anti-abortion protesters that hang around these clinics are mostly women. . .

"The protesters are mostly women. They look like Sunday school teachers, housewives and hip grandmas. And, during the past few months, they have grown more vocal and more organized, emboldened by the recent closure of the only clinic in Mobile."

Tony Abbott has made it practically impossible to import RU486 here in Australia scott and the new "women's health hotline" has the church involved in its policy and counselling services. Not to mention that there are pharmacists in this country in rural areas that will not stock birth control or supply it. There are other plans afoot by particular groups to expand this limiting access to birth control and sex education. So it's not just happening in America.

And for all your shit stirring, do take a look at the picket lines outside the clinics here in Australia. A great majority are men. I'm not saying that women don't protest, they do, but quite frankly I think any protest outside a medical clinic is in really poor taste. Just because there are women protesting at clinics in the South doesn't mean that men don't dictate policy when it comes to abortion. Surely you saw the recent debates here? Leading the charge? The right honorable Tony Abbott, Health Minister and Catholic male. And he was supported by his mostly male colleagues. Fortunately it would appear that so far, Australian men for the most part do not agree with him. But I doubt very much he's finished with the issue. And don't get me started on McGauran. That man should be locked in jail for his efforts. And yeah, to quote Greens Senator Kerry Nettle, "Tony Abbott keep your rosaries off my ovaries."

MahoganySouls

Jeanie wrote:

Tony Abbott has made it practically impossible to import RU486 here in Australia scott and the new "women's health hotline" has the church involved in its policy and counselling services. Not to mention that there are pharmacists in this country in rural areas that will not stock birth control or supply it. There are other plans afoot by particular groups to expand this limiting access to birth control and sex education. ."

Which is quite ironic since sex education would actually cut down on the occurrance of unwanted pregnancy and by extension, abortion.

catefrances

Jeanie wrote:

Tony Abbott has made it practically impossible to import RU486 here in Australia scott and the new "women's health hotline" has the church involved in its policy and counselling services. Not to mention that there are pharmacists in this country in rural areas that will not stock birth control or supply it. There are other plans afoot by particular groups to expand this limiting access to birth control and sex education. So it's not just happening in America.

And for all your shit stirring, do take a look at the picket lines outside the clinics here in Australia. A great majority are men. I'm not saying that women don't protest, they do, but quite frankly I think any protest outside a medical clinic is in really poor taste. Just because there are women protesting at clinics in the South doesn't mean that men don't dictate policy when it comes to abortion. Surely you saw the recent debates here? Leading the charge? The right honorable Tony Abbott, Health Minister and Catholic male. And he was supported by his mostly male colleagues. Fortunately it would appear that so far, Australian men for the most part do not agree with him. But I doubt very much he's finished with the issue. And don't get me started on McGauran. That man should be locked in jail for his efforts. And yeah, to quote Greens Senator Kerry Nettle, "Tony Abbott keep your rosaries off my ovaries."

there's just nothing better than a good jesuit educated catholic who thinks he has righteousness on his side.

Jeanie

MahoganySouls wrote:

Which is quite ironic since sex education would actually cut down on the occurrance of unwanted pregnancy and by extension, abortion.

Yes. Which is what makes me wonder what the motivation is. Sometimes, when I see things like this that do not make sense I can only conclude that it is as gue said, a power issue.

Jeanie

catefrances wrote:

there's just nothing better than a good jesuit educated catholic who thinks he has righteousness on his side.

amen!

SundaySilence

Scubascott wrote:

Nobody commented on this before when I asked. I'm really curious about it. Can somebody please elaborate on it for me?

I meant to but I became distracted by the US tax code and forgot.

I assume the elimination of sex education is religious or abstinance based.

There is talk on pro life websites about the birth control pill. In addition to its method of no ovulation, sometimes breakthrough ovulation still occures. But the pill still works because it does not allow a fertilized egg to implant in the uterus. This is also how the IUD, norplant, and depo-provera shot work. With fertilized eggs seemingly precious (despite that 50% of them don't implant anyway) they want to outlaw the pill and these methods.