Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
i've never posted in the MT before, but i just had to comment on this. i live in california, am a straight woman, and voted no on 8. was saddened that it passed. we took such a huge step forward electing a black man as president, yet our state took a step back, denying rights to people just like you and me. i suppose every minority group has its time to push, women in the suffragette movement, the civil rights movement in the 60s....now it's time for the homosexual community to be recognized as americans with *full* rights. discrimination is fucking played OUT.
like dream said, this has nothing to do with religious marriage, it's a legal issue.
and i had a big ol' discussion with my dad about this issue. he planned to vote yes on 8. i was raised roman catholic, my parents are still devout and go to church each week, all of that.
i mentioned how part of the problem of gay people not having a legal marriage, is if one of them gets critically ill, the other can't be at their bedside. to deny someone the right to be comforted by their loved one....it's cruel.
and frankly very un-christian, in the truest sense of what jesus preached. which was love. he would have never allowed that.
that's what i can't stand about this...they hypocrisy, and just flat-out discrimination. church and state need to be kept separate. i don't interfere in anybody's religion, they don't need to intefere in my government.
I don't think it states anywhere that divorce is forbidden. It is one of those rules that church leaders created.
It has to have been instituted by the church at some point because Jews can get divorced. And it if was forbidden in the Hebrew Bible they wouldn't be able to.
you couldn't swing if you were hangin' from a palm tree in a hurricane.
The Catholic Church also says marriage is until one person dies, so would you support a law to make divorce illegal? From what I also know the Catholic Church won't marry people unless they are both Catholic, so why not make interfaith marriages illegal too?
IF THE GOVERNMENT PUT IN FRONT OF ME A POLL (JUST LIKE THEY DID WITH PROP 8) BANNING DIVORCE...I WOULD SUPPORT THAT TOO!
friggin a
they aren't going to answer the question ... it serves no purpose for them ... they basically don't like gay people and do not believe in equality for them - it's obvious ... so, coming out and saying that just opens them up to being called homophobes and such ...
some people still have their heads on straight thank goodness
I think the commercials ran stating that kids would be taught about gay marriage in schools probably scared enough people to steal rights away from fellow Americans
"Music, for me, was fucking heroin." eV (nothing Ed has said is more true for me personally than this quote)
It has to have been instituted by the church at some point because Jews can get divorced. And it if was forbidden in the Hebrew Bible they wouldn't be able to.
I'm going to do a search to see where this law originated from.
"When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
ReleaseMe and Ninja I can only take your lack of legal base for this decision as you not having one. Your support, as with most supporters of this initiative, is simply based on religious belief which has no place concerning this issue. The state of California, or any state for that matter, is not forcing religious institutions to allow same sex marriage to take place in their halls, churches, chapels, etc… Your religion and it's principles will stay intact so fear not the gay couple down the street will not be the down fall of a 2000 year old institution like the Catholic Church. I would think that strong supporters of family values and marriage would be more concerned about the high divorce rate, child and spousal abuse, negligent parents and dead beat parents who truly erode the core principles of family values than on two people who want to dedicate themselves to each other but just happen to be gay. If anything these people should be embraced for wanted to create a union. Some even want to raise a family and adopt some of the many unwanted children sitting in our nations foster homes and orphanages. Instead their commitment to family is disrespected and they are treated as second class citizens simply because of who they love.
This makes way to much sense for religious zealots. Common sense and religion never really go hand in hand.
People must be real proud, "We stopped the gays from getting married. Now everything in the world will be right. Wars will end, there will be no more famine. All because we stopped the gays from getting married."
What a joke. I guess it's OK to believe what the child molesters preach in a Catholic church. Hypocrisy at it's finest.
i don't interfere in anybody's religion, they don't need to intefere in my government.
HELL YEA!
that is......IT!
i seem to post this a LOT lately, but i think it's b/c, sadly, it is the opposite direction from that our country has taken for awhile...lost our roots, one of the founding principles of our country: seperation of church and state!
The only problem, is this wasn't just a poll, this was a vote towards taking away another human being's equal rights as a citizen.
Most people call that bigotry.
This is what I found on the topic of divorce.
It's from the 1st letter to the Corinthians
Paul says again: 'To them that are married, not I, but the Lord commandeth that the wife depart not from her husband; and if she depart, that she remain unmarried or be reconciled to her husband' (1 Cor. VII. 10-11), and again 'a woman is bound by the law as long as her husband liveth; but if her husband die, she is at liberty' (1 Cor. VII. 39).
Now from reading these passages it would seem that women are not allowed to divorce their husbands but it does not state that husbands are not allowed to divorce their wives.
"When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
blame the government who let this go to a public vote then. dont take it out on me
But it was people like you who forced this issue to be placed on the ballot. It was people like you, who didn't even live in California, that poured $25 million into an advertising campaign to promote Prop 8.
As I, and one other, asked before would you be so willing to accept Sharia law or any other religious ideology if it was forced on you?
"When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
As I, and one other, asked before would you be so willing to accept Sharia law or any other religious ideology if it was forced on you?
if a group is 'strong enough' to have it put on the table, and get a majority to pass it....i would have no other choice right? just as these people have no other choice now. except to move somewhere else, right? so if i felt that strongly, and if they need the word 'marriage' for them to solidify their relationship...then they would move, cause looks like they are out of luck in Ca
if a group is 'strong enough' to have it put on the table, and get a majority to pass it....i would have no other choice right? just as these people have no other choice now. except to move somewhere else, right? so if i felt that strongly, and if they need the word 'marriage' for them to solidify their relationship...then they would move, cause looks like they are out of luck in Ca
So if the people in your state voted to make Muslim Sharia law the law of the land you would just move to another state. You are full of shit. You know as well as I do that you would fight tooth and nail. That you would find the enforcement of Muslim law on us as unacceptable. You are flat out a hypocrit because you find it acceptable to impose your morality on other but would never stand for it being done to you.
The best part about all this is your proclamation to be protecting your faith when I am willing to bet you don't know jack shit about Roman Catholicism and how throughout the history of the church it's leaders pick and choose what law and regulation to in force simply because it fits their agenda. So spare me the "Oh my church says it's wrong" bullshit because your church says divorce is wrong, your church says that eloping is wrong, your church states that if any one accusses a Bishop of any wrong doing that the accuser is suspect not the Bishop, it also states that anyone who doesn't pay a tithes to the church where to be excommunicated.
"When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
Much of the Bill of Rights is about protection from tyranny of the majority.
It sounds like if a majority voted to reinstate slavery, that would be swell, since that's what most people wanted. If you don't like it, just move to a different state, but if CA wanted to allow their citizens to have slaves, as long as that is what the majority wants, git er done.
"I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
if a group is 'strong enough' to have it put on the table, and get a majority to pass it....i would have no other choice right? just as these people have no other choice now. except to move somewhere else, right? so if i felt that strongly, and if they need the word 'marriage' for them to solidify their relationship...then they would move, cause looks like they are out of luck in Ca
you could actually expect to hold your government accountable for pushing aside a clearly discriminatory issue. the majority vote, alone...does not make law. it has to uphold the rights of the constitution as well. someone else far more well-versed in this than me explained it well. it WAs overturned once already. something needs to be done.
once upon a time the 'majority' were against equal rights for women, for blacks. things change...for the better....as they should. religion has no place in government. tis a founding principle. sadly we seemingly forget that, over and over.
Paul says again: 'To them that are married, not I, but the Lord commandeth that the wife depart not from her husband; and if she depart, that she remain unmarried or be reconciled to her husband' (1 Cor. VII. 10-11), and again 'a woman is bound by the law as long as her husband liveth; but if her husband die, she is at liberty' (1 Cor. VII. 39).
Now from reading these passages it would seem that women are not allowed to divorce their husbands but it does not state that husbands are not allowed to divorce their wives.
Well what do you know, a double standard for men and women in religion. Shock of shocks :rolleyes:
you couldn't swing if you were hangin' from a palm tree in a hurricane.
So if the people in your state voted to make Muslim Sharia law the law of the land you would just move to another state. You are full of shit. You know as well as I do that you would fight tooth and nail. That you would find the enforcement of Muslim law on us as unacceptable. You are flat out a hypocrit because you find it acceptable to impose your morality on other but would never stand for it being done to you.
The best part about all this is your proclamation to be protecting your faith when I am willing to bet you don't know jack shit about Roman Catholicism and how throughout the history of the church it's leaders pick and choose what law and regulation to in force simply because it fits their agenda. So spare me the "Oh my church says it's wrong" bullshit because your church says divorce is wrong, your church says that eloping is wrong, your church states that if any one accusses a Bishop of any wrong doing that the accuser is suspect not the Bishop, it also states that anyone who doesn't pay a tithes to the church where to be excommunicated.
you need some time to pray. i will pray for you. or, you can join me at mass this sunday. what time is good for you? 9am 10:15, 11:30, or 1?
if a group is 'strong enough' to have it put on the table, and get a majority to pass it....i would have no other choice right? just as these people have no other choice now. except to move somewhere else, right? so if i felt that strongly, and if they need the word 'marriage' for them to solidify their relationship...then they would move, cause looks like they are out of luck in Ca
Clearly you misunderstand what America is supposed to be about. We are supposed to be tolerant to other peoples religious beliefs, and not force them down their throats. Which is exactly what you're saying is ok.
you couldn't swing if you were hangin' from a palm tree in a hurricane.
Comments
I don't think it states anywhere that divorce is forbidden. It is one of those rules that church leaders created.
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
like dream said, this has nothing to do with religious marriage, it's a legal issue.
and i had a big ol' discussion with my dad about this issue. he planned to vote yes on 8. i was raised roman catholic, my parents are still devout and go to church each week, all of that.
i mentioned how part of the problem of gay people not having a legal marriage, is if one of them gets critically ill, the other can't be at their bedside. to deny someone the right to be comforted by their loved one....it's cruel.
and frankly very un-christian, in the truest sense of what jesus preached. which was love. he would have never allowed that.
that's what i can't stand about this...they hypocrisy, and just flat-out discrimination. church and state need to be kept separate. i don't interfere in anybody's religion, they don't need to intefere in my government.
It has to have been instituted by the church at some point because Jews can get divorced. And it if was forbidden in the Hebrew Bible they wouldn't be able to.
friggin a
routine was the theme..
there aint gonna be any middle any more
How about a poll instituting Sharia Law or one that says cows are sacred hence you can't eat them?
The only problem, is this wasn't just a poll, this was a vote towards taking away another human being's equal rights as a citizen.
Most people call that bigotry.
routine was the theme..
there aint gonna be any middle any more
Down with individuals choosing for themselves! Down with independent thought! Yay for imposing personal religious beliefs on the mass populace!
Typo Man: "Thanks kidz, but remembir, stay in skool!"
I think the commercials ran stating that kids would be taught about gay marriage in schools probably scared enough people to steal rights away from fellow Americans
Stop by:
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=14678777351&ref=mf
routine was the theme..
there aint gonna be any middle any more
I'm going to do a search to see where this law originated from.
This makes way to much sense for religious zealots. Common sense and religion never really go hand in hand.
People must be real proud, "We stopped the gays from getting married. Now everything in the world will be right. Wars will end, there will be no more famine. All because we stopped the gays from getting married."
What a joke. I guess it's OK to believe what the child molesters preach in a Catholic church. Hypocrisy at it's finest.
HELL YEA!
that is......IT!
i seem to post this a LOT lately, but i think it's b/c, sadly, it is the opposite direction from that our country has taken for awhile...lost our roots, one of the founding principles of our country: seperation of church and state!
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow
routine was the theme..
there aint gonna be any middle any more
This is what I found on the topic of divorce.
It's from the 1st letter to the Corinthians
Paul says again: 'To them that are married, not I, but the Lord commandeth that the wife depart not from her husband; and if she depart, that she remain unmarried or be reconciled to her husband' (1 Cor. VII. 10-11), and again 'a woman is bound by the law as long as her husband liveth; but if her husband die, she is at liberty' (1 Cor. VII. 39).
Now from reading these passages it would seem that women are not allowed to divorce their husbands but it does not state that husbands are not allowed to divorce their wives.
You can apply my statements to yourself as well as the state gov't.
Typo Man: "Thanks kidz, but remembir, stay in skool!"
But it was people like you who forced this issue to be placed on the ballot. It was people like you, who didn't even live in California, that poured $25 million into an advertising campaign to promote Prop 8.
As I, and one other, asked before would you be so willing to accept Sharia law or any other religious ideology if it was forced on you?
Yes but the state of California would not recognize the marriage once you returned back.
I'm not sure but I think a lot of the states won't honor the marriage.
routine was the theme..
there aint gonna be any middle any more
So if the people in your state voted to make Muslim Sharia law the law of the land you would just move to another state. You are full of shit. You know as well as I do that you would fight tooth and nail. That you would find the enforcement of Muslim law on us as unacceptable. You are flat out a hypocrit because you find it acceptable to impose your morality on other but would never stand for it being done to you.
The best part about all this is your proclamation to be protecting your faith when I am willing to bet you don't know jack shit about Roman Catholicism and how throughout the history of the church it's leaders pick and choose what law and regulation to in force simply because it fits their agenda. So spare me the "Oh my church says it's wrong" bullshit because your church says divorce is wrong, your church says that eloping is wrong, your church states that if any one accusses a Bishop of any wrong doing that the accuser is suspect not the Bishop, it also states that anyone who doesn't pay a tithes to the church where to be excommunicated.
It sounds like if a majority voted to reinstate slavery, that would be swell, since that's what most people wanted. If you don't like it, just move to a different state, but if CA wanted to allow their citizens to have slaves, as long as that is what the majority wants, git er done.
you could actually expect to hold your government accountable for pushing aside a clearly discriminatory issue. the majority vote, alone...does not make law. it has to uphold the rights of the constitution as well. someone else far more well-versed in this than me explained it well. it WAs overturned once already. something needs to be done.
once upon a time the 'majority' were against equal rights for women, for blacks. things change...for the better....as they should. religion has no place in government. tis a founding principle. sadly we seemingly forget that, over and over.
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow
Interesting, but definitely post-Hebrew Bible.
Well what do you know, a double standard for men and women in religion. Shock of shocks :rolleyes:
you need some time to pray. i will pray for you. or, you can join me at mass this sunday. what time is good for you? 9am 10:15, 11:30, or 1?
routine was the theme..
there aint gonna be any middle any more
Clearly you misunderstand what America is supposed to be about. We are supposed to be tolerant to other peoples religious beliefs, and not force them down their throats. Which is exactly what you're saying is ok.
Sorry I don't pray with hypocrits.
Judaism accepts divorce as a part of life and yes a double standard has definitely been par for the course in many religions.