Yes: thankfully the religious right are still exerting their intolerance. The last 8 years weren't for nought after all. :rolleyes:
Whiel I hate the idea of not allowing gay marriage...it's hardly only the religious right that is against it. You'd think having Obama win California and gay Marriage voted down would show people that.
Whiel I hate the idea of not allowing gay marriage...it's hardly only the religious right that is against it. You'd think having Obama win California and gay Marriage voted down would show people that.
I know - I'm guilty of oversimplifying to make a point.
But hey - the OP went ahead and proved me at least partially right in the end.
Smokey Robinson constantly looks like he's trying to act natural after being accused of farting.
Whiel I hate the idea of not allowing gay marriage...it's hardly only the religious right that is against it. You'd think having Obama win California and gay Marriage voted down would show people that.
Some polls show that it was actually the large African American turnout that helped pass Prop 8. It's been pretty well documented that homophobia is a bit of a problem in the African American community.
"When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
Whiel I hate the idea of not allowing gay marriage...it's hardly only the religious right that is against it. You'd think having Obama win California and gay Marriage voted down would show people that.
I think what the polls are showing is it was the heavily Latino swing voters who voted for W in 2000 and 2004 and voted for Obama in 2008 who put yes on 8 over the top in CA. True, these people voted for Obama this year. However, it is also true that they are part of what has historically been called the religious right. They are by and large Catholics who historically have voted for Republicans.
San Diego 10/25/00, Mountain View 6/1/03, Santa Barbara 10/28/03, Northwest School 3/18/05, San Diego 7/7/06, Los Angeles 7/9/06, 7/10/06, Honolulu (U2) 12/9/06, Santa Barbara (EV) 4/10/08, Los Angeles (EV) 4/12/08, Hartford 6/27/08, Mansfield 6/28/08, VH1 Rock Honors The Who 7/12/08, Seattle 9/21/09, Universal City 9/30/09, 10/1/09, 10/6/09, 10/7/09, San Diego 10/9/09, Los Angeles (EV) 7/8/11, Santa Barbara (EV) 7/9/11, Chicago 7/19/13, San Diego 11/21/13, Los Angeles 11/23/13, 11/24/13, Oakland 11/26/13, Chicago 8/22/16, Missoula 8/13/18, Boston 9/2/18, Los Angeles 2/25/22 (EV), San Diego 5/3/22, Los Angeles 5/6/22, 5/7/22, Imola 6/25/22, Los Angeles 5/21/24, [London 6/29/24], [Boston 9/15/24]
Some polls show that it was actually the large African American turnout that helped pass Prop 8. It's been pretty well documented that homophobia is a bit of a problem in the African American community.
I am hearing about a big Latino Catholic turnout also, as I posted above.
San Diego 10/25/00, Mountain View 6/1/03, Santa Barbara 10/28/03, Northwest School 3/18/05, San Diego 7/7/06, Los Angeles 7/9/06, 7/10/06, Honolulu (U2) 12/9/06, Santa Barbara (EV) 4/10/08, Los Angeles (EV) 4/12/08, Hartford 6/27/08, Mansfield 6/28/08, VH1 Rock Honors The Who 7/12/08, Seattle 9/21/09, Universal City 9/30/09, 10/1/09, 10/6/09, 10/7/09, San Diego 10/9/09, Los Angeles (EV) 7/8/11, Santa Barbara (EV) 7/9/11, Chicago 7/19/13, San Diego 11/21/13, Los Angeles 11/23/13, 11/24/13, Oakland 11/26/13, Chicago 8/22/16, Missoula 8/13/18, Boston 9/2/18, Los Angeles 2/25/22 (EV), San Diego 5/3/22, Los Angeles 5/6/22, 5/7/22, Imola 6/25/22, Los Angeles 5/21/24, [London 6/29/24], [Boston 9/15/24]
just a quick search on ads - i mean really, who's to blame if these ads actually get bought up by people?
i don't click on youtube links from work....but if i remember i'll give em a gander later. although i am sure viewing such will more than likely give me outrage, and really...i am far too happy about the obama win. i've got myself worked up enough just reading about it :mad:...actual videos will just piss me off more........
i don't know who's to blame......but i sure wish we could figure it out. however, i don't have to look past my own family at times - not for intolerance towards gays - to see how relgion can cloud judgement on rights for others, and/or for believing the hype and fear, etc....all amongst many people who are quite intelligent in oh so many ways. it's scary how this sort of thing can permeate minds, intolerance is poison, and i don't think a great many even realize it.
my goal as a Catholic is to protect my religion. things that i have been taught and have studied since basically i was old enough to comprehend. according to this, marriage is between a man and a woman, so they can raise a family, the natural way, the way God intended.
i am a Catholic at my job, while playing sports, and in the voting booth. if the government puts in front of me, a choice of something that will support my religion...i get behind it.
same sex couples can live together, hold hands, whatever they want. marriage is a male and female
let the bashing begin
I am Roman Catholic too and what you just said made me sick to my stomach. It makes me sick how BIGOTS and yes I think you are a bigot...can take aspects of their religion...of MY religion and twist it to justify their own hatred and intolerance.
From one Catholic to another I ask you....It is not written in the bible (book of Genesis I believe) that Man was made in HIS OWN IMAGE. In Gods image! The Bible doesn't say STRAIGHT MEN were made in his image....just MAN.
In my opinion this hatred against gays, blacks, etc is hatred against God himself and you oughta be ashamed of yourself!!!
I hope this law gets shot down as discriminatory.
"Rock and roll is something that can't be quantified, sometimes it's not even something you hear, but FEEL!" - Bob Lefsetz
I am Roman Catholic too and what you just said made me sick to my stomach. It makes me sick how BIGOTS and yes I think you are a bigot...can take aspects of their religion...of MY religion and twist it to justify their own hatred and intolerance.
From one Catholic to another I ask you....It is not written in the bible (book of Genesis I believe) that Man was made in HIS OWN IMAGE. In Gods image! The Bible doesn't say STRAIGHT MEN were made in his image....just MAN.
In my opinion this hatred against gays, blacks, etc is hatred against God himself and you oughta be ashamed of yourself!!!
I hope this law gets shot down as discriminatory.
I'm not very religious myself, though raised Catholic, but I never saw this as twisting religion, it always seemd pretty straight forawrd to me that people against gay marriage were following the bible pretty strickly, not twisting it.
Though I guess they are forgetting about love their neighbor.
I'm not very religious myself, though raised Catholic, but I never saw this as twisting religion, it always seemd pretty straight forawrd to me that people against gay marriage were following the bible pretty strickly, not twisting it.
Though I guess they are forgetting about love their neighbor.
Or judge not lest ye be judged.
"When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
Ya know, being labeled a right winger and all I cringe at this kind of crap, it is ridiculous that anyone wants to deny rights from people at all- now based on their sexual orientation.
Hell, I hope my next neighbors are a nice gay couple. Has to be better than the rebel flag trucks parked in yard asshole that moved out. Wait, it is my other neighbor is gay. Am I going to damnation now since he lives beside me and we get along? Do you think Jesus would really condemn them today?
Really?
Obama is the president now( in January anyway) and the people have spoken. I will not agree with everything he does, not too sure about his cheif of staff-but we will see. Maybe a few of us could have the class of John McCain and move forward with no more attacks. It is exactly this kind of intolerance( gay marriage) that has alienated so many from the Republican party. Obama has an opportunity to mend a lot of fences, but just as important-conservatives and moderates must reach out to him as well.
What's next an ammendment to punish guys who have short hair and drive Ford trucks or...? You can call intolerance and bigotry something else, as you can sculpt a rose from horse shit.. it is nonetheless still horse shit.
Cheers
Ya know, being labeled a right winger and all, it is ridiculous that anyone wants to deny rights from people at all- based on their sexual orientation.
Hell, I hope my next neighbors are a nice gay couple. Has to be better than the rebel flag trucks parked in yard asshole that moved out. Wait, it is my other neighbor is gay. Am I going to damnation now since he lives beside me and we get along? Do you think Jesus would really condemn them today?
Really?
Obama is the president now( in January anyway) and the people have spoken. I will not agree with everything he does, not too sure about his cheif of staff-but we will see. Maybe a few of us could have the class of John McCain and move forward with no more attacks. It is exactly this kind of intolerance( gay marriage) that has alienated so many from the Republican party. Obama has aopportunity to mend a lot of fences, but just as important-conservatives and moderates must reach out to him as well.
What's next an ammendment to punish guys who have short haor and drive Ford trucks or...? You can call intolerance and bigotry something else, as you can sculpt a rose from horse shit.. it is nonetheless still horse shit.
Cheers
How's Obama going to heal or fix this when he is just as wrong on the issue as McCain?
Dr. Laura Schlessinger is a radio personality who dispenses advice to people who call in to her radio show. Recently, she said that, as an observant Orthodox Jew, homosexuality is an abomination according to Leviticus 18:22 and cannot be condoned under any circumstance. The following is an open letter to Dr. Laura penned by a east coast resident, which was posted on the Internet. It’s funny, as well as informative:
Dear Dr. Laura:
Thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding God’s Law. I have learned a great deal from your show, and try to share that knowledge with as many people as I can. When someone tries to defend the homosexual lifestyle, for example, I simply remind them that Leviticus 18:22 clearly states it to be an abomination. End of debate. I do need some advice from you, however, regarding some of the other specific laws and how to follow them:
When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord - Lev.1:9. The problem is my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?
I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?
I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanliness - Lev.15:19- 24. The problem is, how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.
Lev. 25:44 states that I may indeed possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can’t I own Canadians?
I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself?
A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an abomination - Lev. 11:10, it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don’t agree. Can you settle this?
Lev. 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle room here?
Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev. 19:27. How should they die?
I know from Lev. 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?
My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev. 19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? - Lev.24:10-16. Couldn’t we just burn them to death at a private family affair like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev. 20:14)
I know you have studied these things extensively, so I am confident you can help. Thank you again for reminding us that God’s word is eternal and unchanging.
hmmm.. maybe we can establish oursleves( moderates and conservatives) as reasonable people again-and do something worthwhile. This is bullshit, period.
How's Obama going to heal or fix this when he is just as wrong on the issue as McCain?
I agree that Obama is just as wrong as McCain on the issues, but I think Obama has a better chance of bringing some unity back to this country. I would have said that McCain would have been better at it, but his selection of Palin and some of the messages coming out that campaign has forced me to change my mind. Chances are I'm going to disagree with a lot of what Obama does policy wise but if he can bring back a spirit of cooperation and help us remember that we are Americans first, not Democrats or Republicans, then i will at least be somewhat happy with his administration.
"When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
i am tolerant of other peoples (your words) "religious beliefs"
BUT if there was a vote as to which religion is right, or should be followed....tell me why i wouldnt vote for mine?
Because America is not supposed to be a religious country. You're not voting on the "which is right" you're voting on how people should live. You are forcing people to live with your religious beliefs which IS intolerant of their beliefs. You are a bigot.
you couldn't swing if you were hangin' from a palm tree in a hurricane.
OK, so I figured out a likely next step here. First of all, I found this excerpt which says that CA will continue to enforce the 18,000 or so marriages that are now legal in CA. Prop. 8 is not retroactive.
California Will Continue to Honor Marriages of Same-Sex Couples Who Married Before the Possible Passage of
Prop. 8 (11/5/2008)
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
CONTACT: media@aclu.org
Initiative Would Only Apply to Future Marriages
SAN FRANCISCO -- The California Attorney General, Equality California, and the nation's leading LGBT legal groups agree that the marriages of the estimated 18,000 same-sex couples who married between June 16, 2008 and the possible passage of Proposition 8 are still valid in the state of California and must continue to be honored by the state.
As Attorney General Jerry Brown has stated in previous court papers and as he reaffirmed to the San Francisco Chronicle, those marriages should remain valid notwithstanding Proposition 8's possible passage. On August 5, 2008, Brown told the Chronicle, "I believe that marriages that have been entered into subsequent to the May 15 Supreme Court opinion will be recognized by the California Supreme Court,' He noted that Proposition is silent about retroactivity, and said, 'I would think the court, in looking at the underlying equities, would most probably conclude that upholding the marriages performed in that interval before the election would be a just result.'"
There is absolutely nothing in the language of Proposition 8 to suggest that the initiative would apply to couples who have already legally married. Unless the language of an initiative specifically says that it is to be applied retroactively, California's courts have been very reluctant to do so, especially when the newly passed measure is in such stark conflict with existing constitutional provisions.
Secondly, a probable next step is that the democratic legislature will repeal teh "Defense of Marriage Act" which in my opinion is clearly unconstitutional because it negates the Full Faith & Credit clause of the US Constitution when it comes to gay marriages. That is a violation of the 14th Amendment.
Here is a discussion of the DOMA: With their newly minted control over the White House and Congress, Democrats can easily provide a vital (if not complete) antidote to Proposition 8: repeal of the so-called "Defense of Marriage Act" (.pdf). Enacted in 1996, DOMA's principal effects are two-fold: (1) it explicitly prohibits the Federal Government and all federal agencies from extending any federal marriage-based benefits, privileges and rights to same-sex couples [Section 3]; and (2) it authorizes states to refuse to recognize same-sex marriages from other states [Section 2].
So bottom line, it seems that more legal wranglings are inevitable because as it stands now the constitution is being violated.
San Diego 10/25/00, Mountain View 6/1/03, Santa Barbara 10/28/03, Northwest School 3/18/05, San Diego 7/7/06, Los Angeles 7/9/06, 7/10/06, Honolulu (U2) 12/9/06, Santa Barbara (EV) 4/10/08, Los Angeles (EV) 4/12/08, Hartford 6/27/08, Mansfield 6/28/08, VH1 Rock Honors The Who 7/12/08, Seattle 9/21/09, Universal City 9/30/09, 10/1/09, 10/6/09, 10/7/09, San Diego 10/9/09, Los Angeles (EV) 7/8/11, Santa Barbara (EV) 7/9/11, Chicago 7/19/13, San Diego 11/21/13, Los Angeles 11/23/13, 11/24/13, Oakland 11/26/13, Chicago 8/22/16, Missoula 8/13/18, Boston 9/2/18, Los Angeles 2/25/22 (EV), San Diego 5/3/22, Los Angeles 5/6/22, 5/7/22, Imola 6/25/22, Los Angeles 5/21/24, [London 6/29/24], [Boston 9/15/24]
That is a small fraction of the gay community and it's supporters engaging in destruction of property. For the most part there has been civil demonstrations and they are going about it the right way, they went to court. You are taking the actions of a few assholes and basically dismissing the entire cause. And of course you don't care who got wronged because it wasn't you. Of course you don't fucking care because it's not you that is being discriminated against. I hope to God you never have to go through that because then i'll have to tell you to shut the fuck up and stop your bitching.
thanks for saving me the keystrokes, that's what i was about to write in reply
i just don't understand the confusion of keeping church and state separate, it's part of the foundation of our country.
Because America is not supposed to be a religious country. You're not voting on the "which is right" you're voting on how people should live. You are forcing people to live with your religious beliefs which IS intolerant of their beliefs. You are a bigot.
tell me again how a PUBLIC VOTE THAT WINS is forcing people to live with MY RELIGIOUS BELIEFS?????
thank you for giving me the power of a king/dictator/tyrant....what i say, goes
tell me again how a PUBLIC VOTE THAT WINS is forcing people to live with MY RELIGIOUS BELIEFS?????
Since you've sited no legal reasoning behind the ban, and have admitted that you are against it for religious reasons, then a vote on religious reasons is a vote to force other people to live your religious beliefs. As stated, you are willing to inflict your beliefs on people who don't share them, and force people to conform. Committing civil rights violations shouldn't be subject to a popular vote even if the Pope and your religion would like to to be so.
"I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
Since you've sited no legal reasoning behind the ban, and have admitted that you are against it for religious reasons, then a vote on religious reasons is a vote to force other people to live your religious beliefs. As stated, you are willing to inflict your beliefs on people who don't share them, and force people to conform. Committing civil rights violations shouldn't be subject to a popular vote even if the Pope and your religion would like to to be so.
yeah, me and the other hundreds of thousands (or millions) of people that voted this to pass.....we seem to be a pretty powerful group. take it up with the Pope then
tell me again how a PUBLIC VOTE THAT WINS is forcing people to live with MY RELIGIOUS BELIEFS?????
thank you for giving me the power of a king/dictator/tyrant....what i say, goes
Take a step back and think about it. You have a majority of people voting to change the constitution of a state in order to TAKE AWAY a right that the courts have already agreed that a minority has. It makes absolutely no difference that a majority voted for it. It could have been a 90% super majority and it would still be a discriminatory law. And it will eventually fall. It might take time, but it will fall.
San Diego 10/25/00, Mountain View 6/1/03, Santa Barbara 10/28/03, Northwest School 3/18/05, San Diego 7/7/06, Los Angeles 7/9/06, 7/10/06, Honolulu (U2) 12/9/06, Santa Barbara (EV) 4/10/08, Los Angeles (EV) 4/12/08, Hartford 6/27/08, Mansfield 6/28/08, VH1 Rock Honors The Who 7/12/08, Seattle 9/21/09, Universal City 9/30/09, 10/1/09, 10/6/09, 10/7/09, San Diego 10/9/09, Los Angeles (EV) 7/8/11, Santa Barbara (EV) 7/9/11, Chicago 7/19/13, San Diego 11/21/13, Los Angeles 11/23/13, 11/24/13, Oakland 11/26/13, Chicago 8/22/16, Missoula 8/13/18, Boston 9/2/18, Los Angeles 2/25/22 (EV), San Diego 5/3/22, Los Angeles 5/6/22, 5/7/22, Imola 6/25/22, Los Angeles 5/21/24, [London 6/29/24], [Boston 9/15/24]
yeah, me and the other hundreds of thousands (or millions) of people that voted this to pass.....we seem to be a pretty powerful group. take it up with the Pope then
Of course religionists and moral crusders are powerful. And good for them for their ability to raise funds, and organize at the grassroots level. But shame on them for what they do with their money and power. Violating civil rights is a dirty business. I'd love to tell the Pope what's up, but someone I think getting access to him would be a little tricky.
"I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
wow, seems like there are more people in California that think like me than all the do-no-wrong know it alls posting in the moving train...who woulda thunk it?
maybe if it was such a sensitive issue they should have gotten their asses out there and took it to the streets before election day
yeah, me and the other hundreds of thousands (or millions) of people that voted this to pass.....we seem to be a pretty powerful group. take it up with the Pope then
The great thing about this country is that we have the courts in place to keep discriminatory majorities in check. Most of the really important decisions have gone against laws that majorities supported. If it wasn't for the court system applying the constitution, we'd still have black drinking fountains and separate schools. Eventually, this law will be challenged because it's pretty obvious it is in violation of the 14th amendment.
San Diego 10/25/00, Mountain View 6/1/03, Santa Barbara 10/28/03, Northwest School 3/18/05, San Diego 7/7/06, Los Angeles 7/9/06, 7/10/06, Honolulu (U2) 12/9/06, Santa Barbara (EV) 4/10/08, Los Angeles (EV) 4/12/08, Hartford 6/27/08, Mansfield 6/28/08, VH1 Rock Honors The Who 7/12/08, Seattle 9/21/09, Universal City 9/30/09, 10/1/09, 10/6/09, 10/7/09, San Diego 10/9/09, Los Angeles (EV) 7/8/11, Santa Barbara (EV) 7/9/11, Chicago 7/19/13, San Diego 11/21/13, Los Angeles 11/23/13, 11/24/13, Oakland 11/26/13, Chicago 8/22/16, Missoula 8/13/18, Boston 9/2/18, Los Angeles 2/25/22 (EV), San Diego 5/3/22, Los Angeles 5/6/22, 5/7/22, Imola 6/25/22, Los Angeles 5/21/24, [London 6/29/24], [Boston 9/15/24]
tell me again how a PUBLIC VOTE THAT WINS is forcing people to live with MY RELIGIOUS BELIEFS?????
thank you for giving me the power of a king/dictator/tyrant....what i say, goes
People don't share your religious belief, yet you are voting to force them to live by your beliefs.
Just because the majority of people who voted agreed with you doesn't make it right. The majority of people in Germany allowed Hitler to rise, and allowed the Holocaust to happen. That doesn't make it right.
Majority doesn't make it correct. That's why we have courts. To stop the majority when the are wrong and bigoted like you are.
you couldn't swing if you were hangin' from a palm tree in a hurricane.
Dr. Laura Schlessinger is a radio personality who dispenses advice to people who call in to her radio show. Recently, she said that, as an observant Orthodox Jew, homosexuality is an abomination according to Leviticus 18:22 and cannot be condoned under any circumstance. The following is an open letter to Dr. Laura penned by a east coast resident, which was posted on the Internet. It’s funny, as well as informative:
Dear Dr. Laura:
Thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding God’s Law. I have learned a great deal from your show, and try to share that knowledge with as many people as I can. When someone tries to defend the homosexual lifestyle, for example, I simply remind them that Leviticus 18:22 clearly states it to be an abomination. End of debate. I do need some advice from you, however, regarding some of the other specific laws and how to follow them:
When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord - Lev.1:9. The problem is my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?
I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?
I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanliness - Lev.15:19- 24. The problem is, how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.
Lev. 25:44 states that I may indeed possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can’t I own Canadians?
I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself?
A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an abomination - Lev. 11:10, it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don’t agree. Can you settle this?
Lev. 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle room here?
Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev. 19:27. How should they die?
I know from Lev. 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?
My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev. 19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? - Lev.24:10-16. Couldn’t we just burn them to death at a private family affair like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev. 20:14)
I know you have studied these things extensively, so I am confident you can help. Thank you again for reminding us that God’s word is eternal and unchanging.
"Almost all those politicians took money from Enron, and there they are holding hearings. That's like O.J. Simpson getting in the Rae Carruth jury pool." -- Charles Barkley
Comments
Whiel I hate the idea of not allowing gay marriage...it's hardly only the religious right that is against it. You'd think having Obama win California and gay Marriage voted down would show people that.
But hey - the OP went ahead and proved me at least partially right in the end.
Some polls show that it was actually the large African American turnout that helped pass Prop 8. It's been pretty well documented that homophobia is a bit of a problem in the African American community.
I think what the polls are showing is it was the heavily Latino swing voters who voted for W in 2000 and 2004 and voted for Obama in 2008 who put yes on 8 over the top in CA. True, these people voted for Obama this year. However, it is also true that they are part of what has historically been called the religious right. They are by and large Catholics who historically have voted for Republicans.
I am hearing about a big Latino Catholic turnout also, as I posted above.
That is true as well. Crazy how the people Obama was relying on to get him elected are also the same people who helped pass this horrible proposition.
i don't click on youtube links from work....but if i remember i'll give em a gander later. although i am sure viewing such will more than likely give me outrage, and really...i am far too happy about the obama win.
i don't know who's to blame......but i sure wish we could figure it out. however, i don't have to look past my own family at times - not for intolerance towards gays - to see how relgion can cloud judgement on rights for others, and/or for believing the hype and fear, etc....all amongst many people who are quite intelligent in oh so many ways. it's scary how this sort of thing can permeate minds, intolerance is poison, and i don't think a great many even realize it.
human beings are nothing else if not at the very least enigmas. we are such contradictory creatures in oh so many ways.
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow
I am Roman Catholic too and what you just said made me sick to my stomach. It makes me sick how BIGOTS and yes I think you are a bigot...can take aspects of their religion...of MY religion and twist it to justify their own hatred and intolerance.
From one Catholic to another I ask you....It is not written in the bible (book of Genesis I believe) that Man was made in HIS OWN IMAGE. In Gods image! The Bible doesn't say STRAIGHT MEN were made in his image....just MAN.
In my opinion this hatred against gays, blacks, etc is hatred against God himself and you oughta be ashamed of yourself!!!
I hope this law gets shot down as discriminatory.
I'm not very religious myself, though raised Catholic, but I never saw this as twisting religion, it always seemd pretty straight forawrd to me that people against gay marriage were following the bible pretty strickly, not twisting it.
Though I guess they are forgetting about love their neighbor.
Or judge not lest ye be judged.
Hell, I hope my next neighbors are a nice gay couple. Has to be better than the rebel flag trucks parked in yard asshole that moved out. Wait, it is my other neighbor is gay. Am I going to damnation now since he lives beside me and we get along? Do you think Jesus would really condemn them today?
Really?
Obama is the president now( in January anyway) and the people have spoken. I will not agree with everything he does, not too sure about his cheif of staff-but we will see. Maybe a few of us could have the class of John McCain and move forward with no more attacks. It is exactly this kind of intolerance( gay marriage) that has alienated so many from the Republican party. Obama has an opportunity to mend a lot of fences, but just as important-conservatives and moderates must reach out to him as well.
What's next an ammendment to punish guys who have short hair and drive Ford trucks or...? You can call intolerance and bigotry something else, as you can sculpt a rose from horse shit.. it is nonetheless still horse shit.
Cheers
There you go, yours is better than mine.
How's Obama going to heal or fix this when he is just as wrong on the issue as McCain?
My parent's didn't waste all their money sending my to Catholic School.
Dear Dr. Laura:
Thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding God’s Law. I have learned a great deal from your show, and try to share that knowledge with as many people as I can. When someone tries to defend the homosexual lifestyle, for example, I simply remind them that Leviticus 18:22 clearly states it to be an abomination. End of debate. I do need some advice from you, however, regarding some of the other specific laws and how to follow them:
When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord - Lev.1:9. The problem is my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?
I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?
I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanliness - Lev.15:19- 24. The problem is, how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.
Lev. 25:44 states that I may indeed possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can’t I own Canadians?
I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself?
A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an abomination - Lev. 11:10, it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don’t agree. Can you settle this?
Lev. 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle room here?
Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev. 19:27. How should they die?
I know from Lev. 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?
My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev. 19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? - Lev.24:10-16. Couldn’t we just burn them to death at a private family affair like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev. 20:14)
I know you have studied these things extensively, so I am confident you can help. Thank you again for reminding us that God’s word is eternal and unchanging.
I agree that Obama is just as wrong as McCain on the issues, but I think Obama has a better chance of bringing some unity back to this country. I would have said that McCain would have been better at it, but his selection of Palin and some of the messages coming out that campaign has forced me to change my mind. Chances are I'm going to disagree with a lot of what Obama does policy wise but if he can bring back a spirit of cooperation and help us remember that we are Americans first, not Democrats or Republicans, then i will at least be somewhat happy with his administration.
Because America is not supposed to be a religious country. You're not voting on the "which is right" you're voting on how people should live. You are forcing people to live with your religious beliefs which IS intolerant of their beliefs. You are a bigot.
California Will Continue to Honor Marriages of Same-Sex Couples Who Married Before the Possible Passage of
Prop. 8 (11/5/2008)
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
CONTACT: media@aclu.org
Initiative Would Only Apply to Future Marriages
SAN FRANCISCO -- The California Attorney General, Equality California, and the nation's leading LGBT legal groups agree that the marriages of the estimated 18,000 same-sex couples who married between June 16, 2008 and the possible passage of Proposition 8 are still valid in the state of California and must continue to be honored by the state.
As Attorney General Jerry Brown has stated in previous court papers and as he reaffirmed to the San Francisco Chronicle, those marriages should remain valid notwithstanding Proposition 8's possible passage. On August 5, 2008, Brown told the Chronicle, "I believe that marriages that have been entered into subsequent to the May 15 Supreme Court opinion will be recognized by the California Supreme Court,' He noted that Proposition is silent about retroactivity, and said, 'I would think the court, in looking at the underlying equities, would most probably conclude that upholding the marriages performed in that interval before the election would be a just result.'"
There is absolutely nothing in the language of Proposition 8 to suggest that the initiative would apply to couples who have already legally married. Unless the language of an initiative specifically says that it is to be applied retroactively, California's courts have been very reluctant to do so, especially when the newly passed measure is in such stark conflict with existing constitutional provisions.
Secondly, a probable next step is that the democratic legislature will repeal teh "Defense of Marriage Act" which in my opinion is clearly unconstitutional because it negates the Full Faith & Credit clause of the US Constitution when it comes to gay marriages. That is a violation of the 14th Amendment.
Here is a discussion of the DOMA: With their newly minted control over the White House and Congress, Democrats can easily provide a vital (if not complete) antidote to Proposition 8: repeal of the so-called "Defense of Marriage Act" (.pdf). Enacted in 1996, DOMA's principal effects are two-fold: (1) it explicitly prohibits the Federal Government and all federal agencies from extending any federal marriage-based benefits, privileges and rights to same-sex couples [Section 3]; and (2) it authorizes states to refuse to recognize same-sex marriages from other states [Section 2].
So bottom line, it seems that more legal wranglings are inevitable because as it stands now the constitution is being violated.
i just don't understand the confusion of keeping church and state separate, it's part of the foundation of our country.
thank you for giving me the power of a king/dictator/tyrant....what i say, goes
routine was the theme..
there aint gonna be any middle any more
Since you've sited no legal reasoning behind the ban, and have admitted that you are against it for religious reasons, then a vote on religious reasons is a vote to force other people to live your religious beliefs. As stated, you are willing to inflict your beliefs on people who don't share them, and force people to conform. Committing civil rights violations shouldn't be subject to a popular vote even if the Pope and your religion would like to to be so.
routine was the theme..
there aint gonna be any middle any more
Take a step back and think about it. You have a majority of people voting to change the constitution of a state in order to TAKE AWAY a right that the courts have already agreed that a minority has. It makes absolutely no difference that a majority voted for it. It could have been a 90% super majority and it would still be a discriminatory law. And it will eventually fall. It might take time, but it will fall.
Of course religionists and moral crusders are powerful. And good for them for their ability to raise funds, and organize at the grassroots level. But shame on them for what they do with their money and power. Violating civil rights is a dirty business. I'd love to tell the Pope what's up, but someone I think getting access to him would be a little tricky.
maybe if it was such a sensitive issue they should have gotten their asses out there and took it to the streets before election day
routine was the theme..
there aint gonna be any middle any more
The great thing about this country is that we have the courts in place to keep discriminatory majorities in check. Most of the really important decisions have gone against laws that majorities supported. If it wasn't for the court system applying the constitution, we'd still have black drinking fountains and separate schools. Eventually, this law will be challenged because it's pretty obvious it is in violation of the 14th amendment.
People don't share your religious belief, yet you are voting to force them to live by your beliefs.
Just because the majority of people who voted agreed with you doesn't make it right. The majority of people in Germany allowed Hitler to rise, and allowed the Holocaust to happen. That doesn't make it right.
Majority doesn't make it correct. That's why we have courts. To stop the majority when the are wrong and bigoted like you are.
That's from the West Wing. Here's the scene.