At least Prop 8 passed..

ReleaseMe...

Camouflage Ninja wrote:

I know the others on the board think my opinion is ignorant and stupid. But what hurts the most is to know that pearl jam is disappointed in me.

dont ever try to go for 10c seats again...damn, and what if you win the lottery? oh shit

decides2dream

Pacomc79 wrote:

I wonder how it was worded.

I still don't see how people en mass really care about forcing other people from having basic spousal treatment. It makes no sense at all. People lost sleep over two women or two men getting "married" seriously???

The states idea of marriage has nothing to do with religion, every marriage is essentially a civil union and has certain legal ramifications therin. If you want to define the word marriage as a religious union between a man and woman I don't see why personally people can't do that.... but legally I don't see why gay people wouldn't be able to do the same things strait couples do in the eyes of the law.

I definately don't understand creating a law defining marriage. I don't really see that as necessary. Seems like an incredible waste of time.

exactly!
seperation of church and state...where oh where did it go?
LEGAL marriage....RELIGIOUS marriage....NOT the same thing.
it's amazing that some just dont want them queers to use the same language to 'label' their disgusting unions in the same way as god-fearing 'normal' people. *please denote sarcasm. allowing same sex marriages, and YES i fully agree they should be able to use the term MARRIAGE in NO way impacts anyone else's life but the 2 involved. keep your religion out of my government! and i say this as a heterosexual married woman.



btw - i seriously think releaseme and camoflaugeninja have a good schtick going on. rebel-rousers.

ReleaseMe...

decides2dream wrote:

btw - i seriously think releaseme and camoflaugeninja have a good schtick going on. rebel-rousers.

hey, i lost the big one on tuesday...at least i can take something good out of the polls this year

Kel Varnsen

The thing I never understood about the anti-gay marriage argument is that all of the main arguments used could also be applied to divorce. Divorce is forbidden in the bible, divorce is hard for children to understand and divorce it could be argued cheapens the meaning of marriage. Yet how come no one is calling for a proposition to outlaw divorce?

PJ_Saluki

I had this discussion with my dad. He and my mom divorced when he decided to leave and legitimize his relationship with the other woman. He argued for the sanctity of marriage. OK, whatever.

Then I asked him: "Do you think people choose homosexuality or is it genetic." His answer was that some people were born gay. So then I asked him: "OK, if being gay is something that a person is born with, how can you take away their right to marry? Would you be against left-handed people or black people marrying?" He told me that wasn't the same.

I guess my point is, some people simply don't like the idea of men marrying men or women marrying women. Apparently there are quite a few of those people.

EDIT: Here's kind of a mind-bender: My dad said he was OK with gays having the civil benefits of marriage. Also, he labels himself an agnostic, so religion can't be the sticking point.

Kel Varnsen

decides2dream wrote:

exactly!
seperation of church and state...where oh where did it go?
LEGAL marriage....RELIGIOUS marriage....NOT the same thing.
it's amazing that some just dont want them queers to use the same language to 'label' their disgusting unions in the same way as god-fearing 'normal' people. *please denote sarcasm. allowing same sex marriages, and YES i fully agree they should be able to use the term MARRIAGE in NO way impacts anyone else's life but the 2 involved. keep your religion out of my government! and i say this as a heterosexual married woman.

I totally agree. Passing a law to outlaw something that has zero effect on anyone but the people getting married, would be like passing a law to outlaw people painting their kitchens blue.

mammasan

ReleaseMe... wrote:

hey, i lost the big one on tuesday...at least i can take something good out of the polls this year

Neither you nor ninja have answered the question. On what legal ground should same sex marriage be banned?

BinFrog

ReleaseMe... wrote:

get ready to be called ignorant, stupid, and clueless for our beliefs.....maybe the people who cant accept that people think differently should be labled those things

I will stick with my original question.

How does gay marriage affect you in the slightest bit?

How does someone's bedroom activities have any bearing on your life whatsoever.

Are you basing your opinion on religious beliefs, or something else?

Again: how does this affect you at all?

meistereder

I have spoken out about this in another couple of threads, but suffice it to say that this proposition passing is shameful, and it will continue to be challenged in various legal forums and in other states until eventually the law reflects the anti-discriminatory progress that has been made in other areas. The polls already show that if this had been left to people less than 60 years old, this law would not have passed, so at the very least it's just a matter of time until the old and less tolerant are no longer voting. More likely however, the courts will find the right time to step back in and strike it down, because on paper it is clearly in violation of the 14th amendment. Sometimes it just takes time for things to level out, and gay people are probably the easiest target of all. Lots of people in the world still believe that they are sinners, etc.

By the way, I am straight, but I am one of those non-threatened straight guys who thinks people should have equal rights.

Evacuation Rules

Anti-gay conservatives love to pretend that they're protecting their "religious beliefs", and they seem to think that it's okay to force these "beliefs" on other people. It's all a ploy to make themselves look more tolerant. Everybody knows that the real reason is predjudice, plain and simple. Gays are icky and don't derserve equal rights. There's nothing more to it than that. I've never heard one person who's against gay marriage give me one good reason besides "it's my religious beliefs" or "we're trying to protect the American family". And they NEVER tell you what they're protecting families from. It's just a bullshit, sleazebag excuse, because everybody knows that there is no real excuse.

josevolution

i for one would never wan't to tell anyone who theyshould marry/fuck or what ever not anyone at all not even my two kids what they choose to do when they are old enough will be their choice not mine ....how can people live their lives worrying about what the neighboor does with hi's/hers ...

ReleaseMe...

mammasan wrote:

Neither you nor ninja have answered the question. On what legal ground should same sex marriage be banned?

my goal as a Catholic is to protect my religion. things that i have been taught and have studied since basically i was old enough to comprehend. according to this, marriage is between a man and a woman, so they can raise a family, the natural way, the way God intended.

i am a Catholic at my job, while playing sports, and in the voting booth. if the government puts in front of me, a choice of something that will support my religion...i get behind it.

same sex couples can live together, hold hands, whatever they want. marriage is a male and female

let the bashing begin

Evacuation Rules

Kel Varnsen wrote:

The thing I never understood about the anti-gay marriage argument is that all of the main arguments used could also be applied to divorce. Divorce is forbidden in the bible, divorce is hard for children to understand and divorce it could be argued cheapens the meaning of marriage. Yet how come no one is calling for a proposition to outlaw divorce?

Because the "bible/religion" reason is just an excuse to be predjudiced. There is no logic involved.

urbanhippie

I'm not American. Can someone tell me what proposition 8 is and what it means?

josevolution

ReleaseMe... wrote:

my goal as a Catholic is to protect my religion. things that i have been taught and have studied since basically i was old enough to comprehend. according to this, marriage is between a man and a woman, so they can raise a family, the natural way, the way God intended.

i am a Catholic at my job, while playing sports, and in the voting booth. if the government puts in front of me, a choice of something that will support my religion...i get behind it.

same sex couples can live together, hold hands, whatever they want. marriage is a male and female

let the bashing begin

choice that is a freedom for evrybody ....

polaris

mammasan wrote:

Neither you nor ninja have answered the question. On what legal ground should same sex marriage be banned?

they aren't going to answer the question ... it serves no purpose for them ... they basically don't like gay people and do not believe in equality for them - it's obvious ... so, coming out and saying that just opens them up to being called homophobes and such ...

decides2dream

ReleaseMe... wrote:

hey, i lost the big one on tuesday...at least i can take something good out of the polls this year

you actually won, you just haven't realized it yet.
give it time...

PJ_Saluki wrote:

I had this discussion with my dad. He and my mom divorced when he decided to leave and legitimize his relationship with the other woman. He argued for the sanctity of marriage. OK, whatever.

Then I asked him: "Do you think people choose homosexuality or is it genetic." His answer was that some people were born gay. So then I asked him: "OK, if being gay is something that a person is born with, how can you take away their right to marry? Would you be against left-handed people or black people marrying?" He told me that wasn't the same.

I guess my point is, some people simply don't like the idea of men marrying men or women marrying women. Apparently there are quite a few of those people.

EDIT: Here's kind of a mind-bender: My dad said he was OK with gays having the civil benefits of marriage. Also, he labels himself an agnostic, so religion can't be the sticking point.

EXACTLY!
how anyone can NOT see this for exactly what it IS - an equal rights issue - is beyond me. put in ANY other adjective besides 'gay'....such as black, left-handed people, italians, jews....and it would be an outrage.

and i too believe it's not *just* about religion, it's simply people imposing their own morality...religious or not...on other people. while i am completely pro-choice, i can at least understand the pro-life pov, b/c you ARe involving another entity, and the argument is over if it's human, if life begins at conception, etc, etc. however, gay marriage involves NO ONE...except that you actually have to 'tolerate' the idea that two men or two women are married. :eek: what a hardship! the end of civilization!


man...i had to tolerate the most hygiene-challenged man sitting next to me on the train this morning, and it was a challenge! that has FAR mor eimpact on my individual life than if same-sex couples marry. get over it. there IS no 'right excuse' to disallow it.

Evacuation Rules

urbanhippie wrote:

I'm not American. Can someone tell me what proposition 8 is and what it means?

It an amendment to the California state constitution that denys gays the right to marry, that some religious nuts apparantly voted for.

Kel Varnsen

ReleaseMe... wrote:

my goal as a Catholic is to protect my religion. things that i have been taught and have studied since basically i was old enough to comprehend. according to this, marriage is between a man and a woman, so they can raise a family, the natural way, the way God intended.

i am a Catholic at my job, while playing sports, and in the voting booth. if the government puts in front of me, a choice of something that will support my religion...i get behind it.

same sex couples can live together, hold hands, whatever they want. marriage is a male and female

let the bashing begin

The Catholic Church also says marriage is until one person dies, so would you support a law to make divorce illegal? From what I also know the Catholic Church won't marry people unless they are both Catholic, so why not make interfaith marriages illegal too?

mammasan

ReleaseMe... wrote:

my goal as a Catholic is to protect my religion. things that i have been taught and have studied since basically i was old enough to comprehend. according to this, marriage is between a man and a woman, so they can raise a family, the natural way, the way God intended.

i am a Catholic at my job, while playing sports, and in the voting booth. if the government puts in front of me, a choice of something that will support my religion...i get behind it.

same sex couples can live together, hold hands, whatever they want. marriage is a male and female

let the bashing begin

That is not a legal base though, that is religious belief. The Catholic Church has every right to reject gay marriage and to ban same sex couples from getting married in the church, the government does not. As someone stated divorce is also prohibited by God and the Catholic Church so should the government now prohibit divorce because the bible says so. This is simply a case of forcing your morality on others. I respect your religious views and your moral code but as long as I am not inflicting any harm on you or any other being I should be allowed to live by my moral code. So while you state that you are protecting your religion you are in fact infringing on the rights of others solely based on religious dogma.