Hezbollah started this

shiraz wrote:

Ok, that's it. Do you guys really bother to actally read other's posts?

I wrote it over and over again (even in this specifuc thread) - Hezbollah has Iran as a main funder, which means L-O-T-S of money. They also have advanced missiles from Iran & Syria, the kind that no technology can shoot down, and they are using these missiles to fire at C-I-V-I-L-I-A-N-S in northern Israel. The more advanced technology such as guided missiles, UAV's etc' is mainly used against the IDF, along with other "regular" weapons.

Allow me to repeate my own words:

"I really don't understand you. simple rockets or advanced ones - they are all designed to kill, and Hezbollah is only targeting them toward Israeli civilians"

Yesterday Hezbollah had *direct* hits on several civilians houses so you see, they don't really missinig the target.

Listen Shiraz, I know what you said. I can't begin to understand what it's like to live in a war zone. However, we just watched the US pull this shit in Iraq and Afghanistan. Hezbollah was NOT launching rockets at you prior to the IAF's strikes on Lebonese civilians. Israel has been occupying arab land in Lebonan, Syria and Palestine for half a century and that is fact. Stand up for your people and recognize what is going on.

sourdough wrote:

I admit, I haven't read every post here, but has anyone addressed why and how Hezbollah started? 1982 Israel launches a massive offensive into Lebanon which was a highly educated, cosmopolitan, free thinking society and continued to occupy it til 1990. Hezbollah was formed to fight the occupation on their own soil and is credited by many people for freeing Lebanon from the Israeli occupation and a regime that killed many, many civilians and was led by Ariel Sharon who was tossed out of politics after being labelled a war criminal. Soooo, who really started it?

Israel justified the invasion saying that Lebanon allowed Palestinians who set up camp there after being bombed by Jordan to remain and threaten Israel, while the truth of the matter is that Lebanon's gov't was just far too weak to do anything about it. Thousands of lebanese civilians dead from Israeli bombs. Sound familiar?

Yea, I posted it a few times. Hezbollah says they want Israel to release over 9,000 women and children, some infants from their jails. Palestinians are thankful to Hezbollah for diverting Israel's attention for a short time. That's why Hezbollah commited an "act of war", not an "act of terror" by capturing and killing Israeli soldiers, not civilians. The whole issue of civilians came into play afterwards.

The thing is that Hezbollah is not just a military/terror organization, but a full fledged political entity. They provide hospitals, schools and other public services along with a military side which is plenty pissed at Israel with good reason. So the reason why they continue to exist beyond the Israeli occupation in 2000 is probably due to their other work within the Lebonese community and general distrust of Israel. I'm not justifying their actions but they do serve a useful purpose beyond the bloodshed.

shiraz wrote:

"Hezbollah was NOT launching rockets at you prior to the IDF's strikes on Lebonese civilians". W-R-O-N-G, but at the momemt when Haifa area has just taken 14 hits, I don't really care. There isn't any justification to Hezbollah initial actions, end of story.

"Israel has been occupying arab land in Lebonan" - till 2000, yes, and therefore Hezbollah has no right to exsit as a terror organization anymore.

"... Syria and Palestine for half a century and that is fact" - I never said we didn't, but I'm sorry - these facts are irelevant for Hezbollah latest actions. Hezbollah acted for the sake of southern Lebanon since day one, his goal was getting this area out of our occupation, and he got what he wanted.

No I distinctly recall reading that Hezbollah declared itself freedom fighters for the entire arab world. Israel still occupies defenseless palestinian land and the Shebaa Farms in Syria. So first of all, it's no wonder Syria provides funding to Hezbollah, they want their farms back. Secondly, it's obvious why they picked now to commit an "act of war" while Israel is dismantling the Hamas - the democratically elected government of palestine.

To say that Hezbollah has no reason... how can I exlain this. Imagine a guy runs up to someone and beats the living shit out of them for no reason. I would expect him to run around laughing histerically afterwards until his brain explodes. I mean, anyone who is not criminally insane has a reason. Hezbollah exists as more than one person, a number of people with international support. So the only possible explanation is that they are all criminally insane, which supports Israel and Bush's idea that all arabs are nuts and is rather racist if you ask me. Or maybe Hezbollah has a reason for what they did. I am confident that I know the reason, and it's not to "drive Israel into the ocean". I'd say at this point, if Israel pulled all of it's soldiers and colonies out of Palestine, Syria and wherever else they exist, sometime within the next 50 years the fighting will stop, groups like Hezbollah will lose support and will be forced to disolve. At the current rate though, using war philosophy that I disagree with, the only other way to resolve the ongoing conflict is the total genocide of the Arab world and domination by Israel. In all fairness, I support the former solution.

Ahnimus wrote:

No I distinctly recall reading that Hezbollah declared itself freedom fighters for the entire arab world. Israel still occupies defenseless palestinian land and the Shebaa Farms in Syria. So first of all, it's no wonder Syria provides funding to Hezbollah, they want their farms back. Secondly, it's obvious why they picked now to commit an "act of war" while Israel is dismantling the Hamas - the democratically elected government of palestine.

To say that Hezbollah has no reason... how can I exlain this. Imagine a guy runs up to someone and beats the living shit out of them for no reason. I would expect him to run around laughing histerically afterwards until his brain explodes. I mean, anyone who is not criminally insane has a reason. Hezbollah exists as more than one person, a number of people with international support. So the only possible explanation is that they are all criminally insane, which supports Israel and Bush's idea that all arabs are nuts and is rather racist if you ask me. Or maybe Hezbollah has a reason for what they did. I am confident that I know the reason, and it's not to "drive Israel into the ocean". I'd say at this point, if Israel pulled all of it's soldiers and colonies out of Palestine, Syria and wherever else they exist, sometime within the next 50 years the fighting will stop, groups like Hezbollah will lose support and will be forced to disolve. At the current rate though, using war philosophy that I disagree with, the only other way to resolve the ongoing conflict is the total genocide of the Arab world and domination by Israel. In all fairness, I support the former solution.

This is pointless. I wrote it over and over, but you just ignore the simple facts - Hezbollah acts for southern Lebanon, Hamas for southern Israel (the Gaza area). Hezbollah has nothing to do with Gaza, nothing, and even if it did it has NO right to cross the Israeli border, kill and kidnap patrol soliders at the Israeli side and start shooting towards civilians BEFORE Israel had responded.

Since 2000, Hezbollah was orderd by the U.N to disarm, but it didn't do so. Hezbollah Is considered to be a terror group by the UN, US, England, Canada and Australia by deffinition. Its considered to be 'an armed foece who is involved with terror acts' within other western countries. I really don't see your point - Everyone defind Hezbollah as a group of terrorists, but you are doing everything you can to justifay its right to exsit as one.

LEBANON & GAZA ARE NOT REALLY RELATED!!! get it to your head!

I see where you get your facts from now Shiraz.

"All attempts to claim Arab sovereignty over Israel of today, should be seen with their real intention: The destruction of Israel as a Jewish state and the only bulwark of the Judeo-Christian Western civilization in the Middle East."

http://www.science.co.il/History-Palestine.asp

This website, claims that palestine does not exist and says "all attempts to claim arab sovereignty over "Israel" of today, should be seen with their real intention: The destruction of Israel as a Jewish state"

I can't stress enough how racist this website is towards arabs.

Using the same website, I've linked to several maps, as a illustration of Israel's birth and expansion.

Palestine 1920, the area Britain promised to both the Arabs and the Jews
http://www.unitedjerusalem.com/Graphics/Maps/PalestineMandate.asp

Palestine 1923, Britain split it 25/75, Jews/Arabs.
http://www.unitedjerusalem.com/Graphics/Maps/PartitionforTransJordan.asp

"Israel" 1947, showing the still Arab occupied land
http://www.unitedjerusalem.com/Graphics/Maps/1947UNPartitionPlan.asp

1949
http://www.unitedjerusalem.com/Graphics/Maps/1949ArmisticeLines.asp

Pre 1967 Golan Heights
http://www.unitedjerusalem.com/Graphics/Maps/Pre1967GolanHeights.asp

1967 cease-fire lines
http://www.unitedjerusalem.com/Graphics/Maps/1967CeaseFireLines.asp

1973 Yom Kippur War
http://www.unitedjerusalem.com/Graphics/Maps/1973YomKippurWar.asp

Withdrawl from Sinai
http://www.unitedjerusalem.com/Graphics/Maps/SinaiWithdrawlFinal.asp


It's pretty amazing how these websites keep using the entire Arab world to make Israel look small and helpless, and uses ratios to make Israel's military look small by comparison. Just as an example, Vancouver Island, B.C. is larger than Japan. So Israel being smaller than California is no suprise and doesn't justify expansion.

69charger wrote:

No, it's not.

Japan has a total land area of 145,903 square miles. It consists of a great string of islands in a northeast-southwest arc that stretches for approximately 1,500 miles

Vancouver Island, B.C. has a total land area of 12,407 square miles. The island is 285 miles long and up to 50 miles wide.

Where do you get your facts?

Heh, well I didn't actually get the facts. I used to live there and a lot of Japanese live there. I'll admit that I was wrong, it doesn't change anything though. Except you can see how I will admit that I am wrong, even when you don't provide a source for your information. I can look it up here and see that you are right, but some of these other claims it's not that simple.

Anyway, I hope your not saying that justifies Israel's expansion.

69charger wrote:

I'm just pointing out a glaring inaccuracy

As far as the topic at hand, I say fuck it! Let them wipe each other off the face of the Earth. No more "Trouble in the Middle East".

http://www.britannica.com/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page

Take your pick!

That would only mean death for the palestinians. Unless the US decided to stop supporting Israel, then it would mean death to the Jews. Anyway, I'm too tired to debate this anymore. Have a good night... err morning, whatever.

"Just because you say something doesn't make it fact. If you want me to believe what it in the slightest I'd suggest providing some links to credible sources": I dont need to. obviously you're not gonna believe me, a person who live here, no matter what I say.

"I personally don't care what those nations say about Hezbollah" - than why are keep telling everyone that Hezbollah is not considered to be a terror organization? Who decided that, you? Almost eveyone claim it is a terror organization, but they are all wrong? please...

"I've checked it out, I've spent a lot of time on Israeli government websites and Hezbollah affiliated websites and I can say you are misguided": I live here, I am l-i-v-i-n-g this situation everyday, and you say I'm misguided? You are basically prefer to believe the info from a terror organization site, a website which has every reason to make you think Hezbollah are harmless people, and you are calling me misguided?

"Lebanon and Palestine have a lot in common, and that is Israel". No. They HAD a lot in common, Israel moved out from Lebanon in 2000, the only reason we came back to southeren Lebanese border are the actions of the Hezbollah- end of story.

"Can you admit that you are there by force? That Israel has stolen the land": I already did, in MANY MANY posts that you didn't actually bother to read. We are in Lebanon now cause of the Hezbollah, there is no Israeli occupation in Lebanon since 2000, but we are still occuping lands in southern Isreal for really no good reason.

"and continues to steal land" Really? wanna tell me something new? Which land other than the one in Gaza area / syria (desputed) did we steal lately?

miller8966 wrote:

This is a terrorist organization who has no respect for human life at all....hopefully israel gets the job done

Ha Ha Ha Ha !!! this one's really funny !!! Hey man ! Don't be so Naive , and don't trust every word that the journalists on Fox News say !!!

Man ! "Hezbollah" is not a terrosist organization but a resistance . Maybe you tend to forget that Israel is collonising a big part of the south of lebanon , and also a big part of "syria" and a big part of "egypt" and collonising the whole palestine ! Man , those poeple are suffering since 50 years , they've been taken all that they have , and nobody talked about that ! While you are sitting there , drinking a beer in front of your TV , Hundreds of poeple are dying ,innocent Kids and Women . so you don't have the right , I say you don't have the fucking right to say this " Hopefully Israel gets the job done" Who do you think you are ? I'm really upset when i hear those kind of things !!! tell me ! you don't have heart or what !? please keep those kind of thoughts to yourself , I bet nobody here wants to hear what you have to say !!!